Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: December 2015 (Read the OP)

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Feraligatr still has a niche over Gyara (at least in terms of Dragon Dancers cause really that's the only role they share) in that it has Sheer Force thus an easier chance against Dragons and Grass-types because of Ice Punch. This also gives it more power to boot. Not saying that Gatr is better than Gyarados but both of them have their uses and as such one doesn't really outclass the other.

I don't think Gyara is broken either. If your UU team is prepared for Feraligatr its also likely prepared for Gyarados as well. It can have Bounce and Earthquake messing with Fighting-types and Electric-types a bit, but other than that, not really broken per say. You know when everything was crying over Mamoswine being broken when it dropped to UU along with Mandibuzz? I think Gyara will be the same deal.
Ah, completely forgot about Sheer Force when making my post. My mind: TORRENT Feraligatr. XD
 
It's higher ranked in OU than in RU, so that argument is kind of invalid.
But RU is a entirely different metagame than OU, you can't say it is ok in OU so it must be okay in RU. The big difference is that stall is an usable playstyle in OU, but stall is non-existed in the offensive orientated RU. Also dark spam is popular, maybe less with the Diancie drop, in RU with great dark types such as Sharpedo, Absol and Drapion. It is ranked C- for a reason and that is being actually very niche and only usable on trick room teams as TR setter and NP user.

But I hope that all RU pokes that are ranked C+ or lower will drop to NU one day!
 
So I guess Confag is similar to Politoed, Ninetales, Gothitelle, Wobbuffet, and Ditto(?).
They all have niches in a higher tier, like OU or Ubers, but because their niche is banned in lower tiers (i.e. STag is Drought/Drizzle ban) they just keep dropping since no one wants to use them in the lower tiers. That's why the aforementioned are PU, they are only good in a high tier, but since they're useless in UU and under, they just fall to the trenches of PU.
Similarly, Confag is only viable in OU, so it will probably drop to NU pretty soon.
 
It is more like Gurdurr, being ranked B in NU and ranked A- in RU. This is only due to the difference between the two metagames. RU has dark spam and fighting types are a great answer to that and most of the dark types are physical and Gurdurr can set up on them. In NU dark resist are not needed that much and Gurdurr is also ranked lower. This is the same for Granbull. It was not that great in NU, but in RU it was needed as a physical wall for Tyrantrum and such and is now RU. Cofag his niche is not gone in RU, but he cannot have the same role it has in OU. This is because all the metagames are different. In RU walls are needed but Cofag doesn't is the right answer for it. And it will probably not drop to NU anytime soon, because worser pokes like ampi, cinno and Ty are also still RU.
 
People are forgetting one thing about Cofagrigus in NU. This:



will be on every low ladder team.

vv Teams that run this "core" give Cofagrigus Eject Button to give a free switch to Slaking.
 
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People are forgetting one thing about Cofagrigus in NU. This:



will be on every low ladder team.
I can sort of see this working. Confag gives an opponent Mummy, Slaking comes in and hits the opponent to remove Truant and receive Mummy. But that is way too gimmicky to actually work, like Skill Swap Contrary in Doubles.

EDIT: Toljik was joking right?
 
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Well you click Pursuit with Slaking so you're guaranteed to receive Mummy by sacking Cofag to a physical attacker.
Honestly I think Yamask works better with the gimmick since Cofagrigus is actually reasonably tough to kill so sacking it is harder

As a team archetype, yes it's a joke, but that doesn't mean that low ladder players wouldn't try to abuse it
 
The same applies to Cincinno, albeit to a lesser extent.
RU seems to be a very odd tier, since it's choked with bad mons that still see usage there.
Can someone explain why?
 
The same applies to Cincinno, albeit to a lesser extent.
RU seems to be a very odd tier, since it's choked with bad mons that still see usage there.
Can someone explain why?
Arguably has one of the smallest communities, especially compared to the likes of OU and UU which don't get nearly the same problem, so ladder players leak into significant usage percentages much more easily.
Best I can come up with anyway
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
Here are my predictions for drops next shifts:

OU to UU:
Alakazam
upload_2016-1-29_16-26-24.png

Will be an awesome revenge killer in the UU meta like it used to. Can easily net some KO's with Life Orb, or be a perfect mon against offense with Focus Sash and Magic Guard. Gonna be a huge threat.
upload_2016-1-29_16-27-29.png

Oh boy....

Mew
upload_2016-1-29_15-41-51.png

upload_2016-1-29_16-28-7.png

Something that I want to see happen for such a long time. Mew is the jack of all trade pokemon in the UU meta like it used to be. A bulky SR setter, a sweeper, a stat passer and even a stallbreaker. I really feel it would be a great addition to the UU tier, due to the fact that stall is pretty much everywhere (although decreased when Crawdaunt and Gyarados arrived). Really hope this drop actually comes to happen.

Mega Gyarados
upload_2016-1-29_16-25-46.png

This things is gonna be scary in UU. Already regular Gyara is a pain to deal with, but with the added bulk and the mind games it can play when it changes typing, I feel it might be a bit too good for the tier. Although this is all theorymon, I don't expect it to stay long in the tier imo.


UU to RU:
Honchkrow
upload_2016-1-29_16-30-8.png

I am really scared if this thing drops to RU. 125 Atk backed up by powerful STAB moves in Brave Bird and Sucker Punch. Although it's speed could be a bit better, Choice Band with Moxie would tear stuff up. Thank God it doesn't get Knock Off....

Cloyster
66 | Cloyster | 3.354%
Cloyster would be a pretty threatening mon in RU, Shell Smash and Skill Link would be cool with Icicle Spear and Rock Blast and Hydro Pump. Would be cool new threat to break some defensive cores in RU.

Nothing else that I could see


RU to NU:
Trevenant
upload_2016-1-29_16-35-25.png

Finally this is happening. Trevenant is such a niche pokemon in RU and I believe it would actually be quite viable in NU. It has a quite good 110 Atk stat coupled with nice 85/76/82 bulk. Grass/Ghost is also quiet good offensively, and could be nice with Harvest berry shenanigans, although Sceptile would still outclass it pretty much.

Smeargle
upload_2016-1-29_16-36-38.png

I feel Smeargle would be an interesting pokemon in NU. It would probably be an amazing hazard setter with Dark Void, Stealth Rock, and Spikes and maybe even Sticky Webs. It has low speed, so it may not be that amazing, but it would be a nice hazard lead for HO teams.


NU to PU:
Prinplup
upload_2016-1-29_16-40-50.png

OMG pleasssse drop your so close. PU is seriously in need of hazard removal after Pelipper left the tier. Prinplup would be a great addition, as it can serve as another Floatzel check and all around bulky water with an Eviolite. I really want this to come to PU again.

Pinsir
upload_2016-1-29_16-43-34.png

Pinsir would be cool in PU with it's high 125 Atk. An SD set may be cool with Mold Breaker or a Choice Scarf set with Moxie also. It may be too god, but 85 Spd isn't the best with sole Bug typing. I guess we have to see.

Cryogonal
upload_2016-1-29_16-46-39.png

Another hazard remover?? PU would seriously be lucky if Cryogonal would drop along side Prinplup. It may be weak to SR, but 135 Sp.Def would be nice with 105 Spd is also pretty cool. 30 Def is pretty abysmal though.

Crustle
upload_2016-1-29_16-53-13.png

Crustle would be cool in PU, being a cool hazrad lead, and nice Shell Smash sweeper. 45 Spd is pretty slow though. I believe it would still be quite good.


Overall pretty cool drops and I believe will shake up the tiers a lot.
 

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Here are my predictions for drops next shifts:

OU to UU:
Alakazam
View attachment 56299
Will be an awesome revenge killer in the UU meta like it used to. Can easily net some KO's with Life Orb, or be a perfect mon against offense with Focus Sash and Magic Guard. Gonna be a huge threat.
View attachment 56300
Oh boy....

Mew
View attachment 56294
View attachment 56301
Something that I want to see happen for such a long time. Mew is the jack of all trade pokemon in the UU meta like it used to be. A bulky SR setter, a sweeper, a stat passer and even a stallbreaker. I really feel it would be a great addition to the UU tier, due to the fact that stall is pretty much everywhere (although decreased when Crawdaunt and Gyarados arrived). Really hope this drop actually comes to happen.

Mega Gyarados
View attachment 56298
This things is gonna be scary in UU. Already regular Gyara is a pain to deal with, but with the added bulk and the mind games it can play when it changes typing, I feel it might be a bit too good for the tier. Although this is all theorymon, I don't expect it to stay long in the tier imo.


UU to RU:
Honchkrow
View attachment 56302
I am really scared if this thing drops to RU. 125 Atk backed up by powerful STAB moves in Brave Bird and Sucker Punch. Although it's speed could be a bit better, Choice Band with Moxie would tear stuff up. Thank God it doesn't get Knock Off....

Cloyster
66 | Cloyster | 3.354%
Cloyster would be a pretty threatening mon in RU, Shell Smash and Skill Link would be cool with Icicle Spear and Rock Blast and Hydro Pump. Would be cool new threat to break some defensive cores in RU.

Nothing else that I could see


RU to NU:
Trevenant
View attachment 56305
Finally this is happening. Trevenant is such a niche pokemon in RU and I believe it would actually be quite viable in NU. It has a quite good 110 Atk stat coupled with nice 85/76/82 bulk. Grass/Ghost is also quiet good offensively, and could be nice with Harvest berry shenanigans, although Sceptile would still outclass it pretty much.

Smeargle
View attachment 56307
I feel Smeargle would be an interesting pokemon in NU. It would probably be an amazing hazard setter with Dark Void, Stealth Rock, and Spikes and maybe even Sticky Webs. It has low speed, so it may not be that amazing, but it would be a nice hazard lead for HO teams.


NU to PU:
Prinplup
View attachment 56308
OMG pleasssse drop your so close. PU is seriously in need of hazard removal after Pelipper left the tier. Prinplup would be a great addition, as it can serve as another Floatzel check and all around bulky water with an Eviolite. I really want this to come to PU again.

Pinsir
View attachment 56309
Pinsir would be cool in PU with it's high 125 Atk. An SD set may be cool with Mold Breaker or a Choice Scarf set with Moxie also. It may be too god, but 85 Spd isn't the best with sole Bug typing. I guess we have to see.

Cryogonal
View attachment 56310
Another hazard remover?? PU would seriously be lucky if Cryogonal would drop along side Prinplup. It may be weak to SR, but 135 Sp.Def would be nice with 105 Spd is also pretty cool. 30 Def is pretty abysmal though.

Crustle
View attachment 56311
Crustle would be cool in PU, being a cool hazrad lead, and nice Shell Smash sweeper. 45 Spd is pretty slow though. I believe it would still be quite good.


Overall pretty cool drops and I believe will shake up the tiers a lot.
You forgot about Charizard to NU and Ampharos to PU
 
I'm more of an RU guy, so I'll list my thoughts for the mons set to drop there.


When looking at Honchkrow, the obvious comparison is made with Absol, as their stats are near alike and are both dark types, though I believe Honchkrow is better for a few reasons. Honchkrow firstly has the Flying type, which allows it to fuck over revenge killers like Hitmonlee, Gurdurr, and Vaccum Wave Poliwrath, as it is neutral to their priority moves, plus it has STAB Brave Bird which fucks over the common Fighting types that are used to take on Absol. Secondly, with 105 SpA, it can go mixed much easier with access to moves like Heat Wave and Dark Pulse allowing it to fuck up MegaLix and other psychical walls. Thirdly, its abilities aren't near useless as Moxie in combination with Sucker Punch is a great combo, and while pretty niche, Insomnia allows you to switch in on Amoonguss and Sleep Powder Venu easier. Yeah, Absol doesn't have a rocks weakness and has Knock Off, but overall I feel Honchkrow is better in the role of a dark attacker, and I actually expect it to not last too long as Absol is already on the ropes between broken and not, and Honchkrow is better than it in a lot of roles, so yeah.


It is hard to tell the future of Cloyster if it does fall to RU. For one, its Shell Smash set would be very deadly, with Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, and Hydro Pump possessing great coverage, and with good enough speed to outrun scarf Houndoom with +Atk nature and Scarf Durant with +Spe nature. And a suicide lead set doesn't sound that awful, being a nice lead with Explosion, Spikes and Rapid Spin. However its typing is pretty meh defensively, being weak to all forms of hazards and common types like Fighting, Grass, and Electric, and while its Defense is huge, its HP and SpD doesn't do it any favors, being KO'd by any strong special attack, and at least 2HKO'd by a special attack coming from anything with a respectable SpA stat. (252 SpA Medicham Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 169-199 (70.1 - 82.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock <- No one runs that but still.). So overall, while it is very potent when set-up, it would find it difficult to set up, so I think it could stay, but being banned isn't exactly off the table either.

Though they aren't guaranteed to drop, discussing their potential never hurts, plus I can just copy and paste this to the NP thread so I can feel like I contributed if they do drop xp.
 
Shoot just checked, it was voted with a near 6 votes to BL, it was so close that I think it should be retested, especially that the meta changes so much since it was last UU...
I doubt that Zam Base will drop though. Magic Guard+LO or Sash is still highly attractive for teams in need of a Psychic type special attacker.
Can someone explain why Zam became OU in the first place?
 
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