Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: December 2015 (Read the OP)

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rau

History is but an inevitability
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I know, Wartortle and Drilbur (lol jk) are bad.
Does anyone else think Charizard-Base will eventually descend into the depths of NU?
Although Charizard doesn't have much else to offer, it still is a powerful nuke on sun teams as the combination of Choice Specs and Solar Power easily allows it to 2HKO most Pokemon in the tier with Fire Blast.

252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 120 HP / 252 SpD Alomomola in Sun: 334-393 (66.6 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

For reference, Alomomola (aka Cancer Fish) is one of RU's premier walls, so being able to do that much damage to a resist, Charizard isn't to be taken lightly. The x4 Stealth Rock damage + Solar Power recoil really do make it wear itself down quite easily, aside from the fact that Mega Abomasnow and Fletchinder really neuter Sun teams. I guess that can be mitigated with Diance providing a solid Flying resist and a new Weather sweeper in Venusaur.
 
So I guess Venusaur+Charizard is a viable core then?
The only issue that I see with this is that there isn't any way to auto-set sun in RU, since Drought in banned to BL, and Charizard gets worn down tremendously easy, especially when strong revenge killers, like Fletchinder and Scarfed Tyrantrum, it shouldn't be hard to eventually bring down. So Zard essentially needs Spin support, and sun support, to avoid being a really bad Emboar or Camerupt.
Honestly I think Charizard should only be used a one or two-time fire type nuke, since Venusaur and Fletchinder seem to function better in the sun.
 

rau

History is but an inevitability
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
So I guess Venusaur+Charizard is a viable core then?
The only issue that I see with this is that there isn't any way to auto-set sun in RU, since Drought in banned to BL, and Charizard gets worn down tremendously easy, especially when strong revenge killers, like Fletchinder and Scarfed Tyrantrum, it shouldn't be hard to eventually bring down. So Zard essentially needs Spin support, and sun support, to avoid being a really bad Emboar or Camerupt.
Honestly I think Charizard should only be used a one or two-time fire type nuke, since Venusaur and Fletchinder seem to function better in the sun.
Fletchinder cannot be compared AT ALL with Charizard as it serves a completely different role (Charizard is more of a niche wallbreaker while Fletchinder is a setup sweeper with acrobatics). Same with emboar and camerupt, which are both used for the raw power they gain with their abilities (reckless and sheer force, respectively). I'd moreso compare it to Typhlosion or Delphox, other two fast special oriented fire-types. And unlike typhlosion, who is completely outclassed by Delphox, Charizard at least has Solar Power to let it stand out. If you really want to compare charizard to something RU, you could say it's more of a poor man's Moltres (luckily, tres is already banned, but it fits the comparison much, much better than fletch, emboar, and camel). It's also pretty unfair to compare it with venusaur, since they each do their own things.
 

rau

History is but an inevitability
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Please, I don't want a damn Diancie in RU. That seriously can spoil the fun.
I don't see Diance being a party pooper at all. ln fact, it's a pretty great addition to the tier. Great STAB Combo (Earth Power covers Steel-types), a bulky Stealth Rock setter, food defensive stats (aside from the low hp) + its typing providing teams providing an active Fire- and Flying-type resist (take into consideration how several teams surprisingly turn out Fletchinder weak), and some more stuff make Diancie a great 'mon in RU overall. You can do lots of sets such as Phys. Defensive, Rock Polish, Cro, SubCM and OTR. Heck, it's even a pretty cool Sun setter thanks to being a fletch counter, considering Smogonbird Jr. pretty much rips all sun teams to shreds (quite convenient considering Venusaur and Charizard dropped, wouldn't ya say?).
 
For all the shit that Ambipom and Cinccino get (Hell Brandon mentions Gastro a lot) I'm surprised no one talks about how Cofagrigus should drop. To be fair though a lot of people will just assume that Cofag will be broken in NU and not want it to drop. But it's still a shitmon all things considered. (Its C- on the rankings)

Its just a weaker Mismagius with shittier coverage but a lot more bulk. (And an annoying ass ability in Mummy) I would like to at least get it to a tier where it'll actually be good, even if it doesn't stay for long.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
For all the shit that Ambipom and Cinccino get (Hell Brandon mentions Gastro a lot) I'm surprised no one talks about how Cofagrigus should drop. To be fair though a lot of people will just assume that Cofag will be broken in NU and not want it to drop. But it's still a shitmon all things considered. (Its C- on the rankings)

Its just a weaker Mismagius with shittier coverage but a lot more bulk. (And an annoying ass ability in Mummy) I would like to at least get it to a tier where it'll actually be good, even if it doesn't stay for long.
i would like Cofag in NU, Nasty Plot + Trick Room sets would be a nightmare for offense, and bulky sets have Hex and even TSpikes to work with.
 
Registeel is also in the C-Ranks, should that drop too? I mean, it's got good Defense and Sp.Def, but shitty HP and no reliable recovery. Regirock should also drop to PU: it's just Golem with worse Attack (but better bulk), no Sucker Punch, and Clear Body over Sturdy. It's not like it'd be broken or anything.
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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Registeel is also in the C-Ranks, should that drop too? I mean, it's got good Defense and Sp.Def, but shitty HP and no reliable recovery. Regirock should also drop to PU: it's just Golem with worse Attack (but better bulk), no Sucker Punch, and Clear Body over Sturdy. It's not like it'd be broken or anything.
Nothing against C Rank mons, but I do find Registeel bad enough to consider worth dropping to NU :/ Plus NU needs more specially defensive mons if they can get them.
 
Antar, I think it would be really cool to see what Pokemon for each official tier were used the most last year. Might be a bit time-consuming, however.

If anyone is interested in knowing 2015's highest-used mons in OU, here they are (using 1695 stats)



1. Landorus-T - 25.24%
2. Garchomp - 21.68%
3. Heatran - 19.74%
4. Keldeo - 17.95%
5. Scizor - 17.58%
6. Talonflame - 16.43%
7. Ferrothorn - 15.81%
8. Latios - 15.65%
9. Rotom-W - 15.37%
10. Clefable - 14.27%
 
IIRC Metagross was UU for a while in XY before ORAS gave it one of the strongest Megas in OU, and apparently it's UU again with the new policy.
So are the dropped base forms back were they belong before their Megas were released?
 
IIRC Metagross was UU for a while in XY before ORAS gave it one of the strongest Megas in OU, and apparently it's UU again with the new policy.
So are the dropped base forms back were they belong before their Megas were released?
Not necessarily; they just dropped a tier like any other Pokémon does. Metagross just happens to be right back where it belonged.
 
Not necessarily; they just dropped a tier like any other Pokémon does. Metagross just happens to be right back where it belonged.
Well, the ORAS Megas dropped right to the tier that they were before ORAS. Like Lopunny dropped to PU immediately. It's just the XY Megas that didn't since some Pokemon (e.g. Gardevoir) changed rapidly enough that they may be tiered elsewhere than where they used to be.
 
For all the shit that Ambipom and Cinccino get (Hell Brandon mentions Gastro a lot) I'm surprised no one talks about how Cofagrigus should drop. To be fair though a lot of people will just assume that Cofag will be broken in NU and not want it to drop. But it's still a shitmon all things considered. (Its C- on the rankings)

Its just a weaker Mismagius with shittier coverage but a lot more bulk. (And an annoying ass ability in Mummy) I would like to at least get it to a tier where it'll actually be good, even if it doesn't stay for long.
Toxic spikes works well on stall but I agree it's pretty niche and could probably be a good drop.
 
I sometimes see Cofagrigus used as a Nasty Plot user on TR teams, in OU.
Toxic Spikes is nice, and that bulk means that it may not drop anytime soon.
Also, who else can set Tspikes and Spinblock at the same time (in RU)? (Not Froslass because she's BL2)
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
I sometimes see Cofagrigus used as a Nasty Plot user on TR teams, in OU.
Toxic Spikes is nice, and that bulk means that it may not drop anytime soon.
Also, who else can set Tspikes and Spinblock at the same time (in RU)? (Not Froslass because she's BL2)
Well, the thing is, Cofag isn't even that good in RU.
 
The same applies to Cinccino and Ambipom.
The issue (at least I think) is that people are going to use Cofag in RU due its attractive traits (annoying ability, tspikes, bulk), just enough to keep it RU.
So even though it kinda sucks, people will use it, and it may or may not drop.
 
Gyarados in UU. Prepare to be blown out of the UU usage ballpark by this thing's sheer awesomeness and POWAH, Feraligatr.

My thoughts? Well, on the current OU viability rankings, Gyarados is A- rank. It's also the 59th most used Pokemon in OU, and while it's not spectacular, it's still really good. Also it can use Moxie EXTREMELY well to be able to become progressively all that more terrifyingly powerful as it defeats each Pokemon on the enemy team, or Intimidate to seriously weaken physical attackers. It also gets ridiculously powerful moves and amazing setup options, like Aqua Tail, Bounce, Waterfall, Crunch, Dragon Dance(in case if you want it to be UNSTOPPABLE), Earthquake, Outrage, Iron Head, Stone Edge, Taunt, and T-Wave. It can run almost any set it wants preferrably using those moves (and maybe more, like Dragon Tail, Facade, and Body Slam), but it always has to watch out for burns. That can be its downfall, along with Zapdos and Aerodactyl-Mega, both of which are immune to EQ, but Zapdos is weak to Ice Fang and Stone Edge, and Aerodactyl-Mega is weak to Water moves it may carry, Iron Head, and to Stone Edge as well. And it's also sitting on an average speed, sitting at base 81 speed.

Long story short: This thing, from what I can tell, will be more than the new Feraligatr, it will be one of the kings of UU AND outclass Feraligatr and MAYBE even Mega Swampert in a few aspects, aside Aerodactyl-Mega, Mence, Hydreigon, and Suicune as S-Rank. Perhaps it might be A+, though, but it will still be a phenomenal Pokemon. (Maybe it'll be too good and be booted into BL or even back into OU! Time will tell for sure, however.)

Also, sorry if this drove the current topic of RU mons off the road for now, but I saw Gyarados in UU and really wanted to post my thoughts.
 
Feraligatr still has a niche over Gyara (at least in terms of Dragon Dancers cause really that's the only role they share) in that it has Sheer Force thus an easier chance against Dragons and Grass-types because of Ice Punch. This also gives it more power to boot. Not saying that Gatr is better than Gyarados but both of them have their uses and as such one doesn't really outclass the other.

I don't think Gyara is broken either. If your UU team is prepared for Feraligatr its also likely prepared for Gyarados as well. It can have Bounce and Earthquake messing with Fighting-types and Electric-types a bit, but other than that, not really broken per say. You know when everything was crying over Mamoswine being broken when it dropped to UU along with Mandibuzz? I think Gyara will be the same deal.
 
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