This is for Hyra: When will you make the next poll and what will it be on?
This is for DJD: How is the Shoddy thing going?
This is for DJD: How is the Shoddy thing going?
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CAP 1 Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Reflections, Opinions, and Closing
- Thread starter Cooper
- Start date
- Status
Updating analysis, ignoring that whole, unnecesary post about Substitute, who then continued to rehash the LO set minus Substitute and with slightly different EV's. Substitute is if you do not want to risk mispredicting and being forced out, because if this happens you risk taking 50% on the next switch in. 25%, or 50% it's a freaking hard choice.
[SET]
name: Mixant
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Bug buzz
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Substitute / Earth Power
item: Life Orb
ability: Compound Eyes
nature: Naive / Rash
evs: 200 Atk/ 56 Satk / 252 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
Syclant has the ability to tear through many of the most common walls in D/P. Compound Eyes provided Syclant with an extremely high power 91% accurate STAB in the form of Blizzard. Brick Break deals with Blissey and will 2HKO 90% of the time. Bug buzz provides a strong STAB that deals with many opponents. Substitute can be used if you do not want to risk mispredicting, which will often force Syclant to switch out. It is also useful to absorb Thunder Waves from Blissey and Cresselia. If you do use substitute than Superpower becomes an option over Brick Break as it can 2HKO Blissey with less EVs.
If this set does not have sufficient Rapid Spin support, it will soon fall to passive damage. To combat this you can use Mountaineer over Compound Eyes, but only do this if you use an Abomasnow to set up hail or switch to the significantly weaker ice beam.
[SET]
name: Swords Ant
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Ice Shard / Ice Punch
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Brick Break / U-Turn
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
ability: Mountaineer
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
This is a full physical version of Syclant. It's attack reaches astronomical levels after a Swords Dance. Ice Shard takes care of anything that thinks it can switch in on the Swords Dance and out speed for a KO. Ice Punch provides a more reliable Ice STAB.
Fire fang, Thunder fang, Stone edge, Night slash or Shadow claw could be used over Brick Break / U-Turn. Fire fang dents Forretress, who would otherwise wall you, after a SD. Thunder fang is your best bet against Gyarados. Stone edge (or Rock slide if you don’t like the poor accuracy and want to take advantage of the flinch chance) has great coverage and can 1HKO some Pokemon you would otherwise have problems with after a Swords Dance. Night slash or Shadow claw can beat down Dusknoir and bulky psychics. Superpower is not an option on this set as the attack drop conflicts with sword dance.
[SET]
name: SpecsSycle
move 1: Ice Beam / Blizzard
move 2: Bug buzz
move 3: Super Power / Focus Blast
move 4: Earth Power
item: Choice Specs
ability: Mountaineer / Compound Eyes
nature: +Satk -Def / Timid / Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 Satk / 252 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
This set has the ability to do massage damage to most of the OU metagame, provided you predict right. If you run the low accuracy Blizzard and Focus Blast then use the Compound Eyes ability with heavy Rapid Spin support, as Syclant wants to have the ability to switch in and out freely with this set. If you don't want such a high-maintenance Poke than using running Mountaineer, Super Power and Ice beam allows you to still dent Blissey and also be immune to SR. Keep in mind that only Modest Nature and Focus Blast are able to 2HKO without SR.
[Other Options]
Stone Edge is a good option for dealing with the likes of Moltres and Articuno. Superpower is unable to 1HKO Blissey even with max Atk, so isn't of much note other than on the Choice Specs set, or to 2HKO with less EVs. Thunder Fang and Earth Power will 1HKO Gyarados and Heatran respectively, but don't be tempted to use them on anything that isn't 4x weak as unresisted STAB Blizzard or Bug buzz will usually do more. Most of the time its incredibly powereful STABs will cover it better than a single attack that hits Super Effective against a certain Poke. Choice Band is also an option if you don’t want to have to set up your Physical sweeper, but Syclant isn't build for repeated switch ins. Choice Scarf makes it a decent lead.
[EVs]
Neutral Natured Syclant with max Atk and Life Orb is never guaranteed to 2HKO Blissey with Break Break, but 200 EVs Provide a very reasonable chance and a guaranteed KO with SR in play. Any EVs Leftover from your main form of offence should go into Spd. Always make sure that Syclant can survive two switch ins to SR if running Compound Eyes. This means NEVER give it four Hp EVs. Either eight or none.
[Opinion]
Syclant can tear through some of D/P's prestige walls, but is extremely high maintenance. Its typing is a mixed bag. It has two wonderful STABs for an offensive Poke, but is hindered by a horrible SR weakness. Mountaineer takes care of this, but leaves it using a weaker STAB. If you can keep Syclant in good condition then it will be a great asset to your team.
[Counters]
Tentacruel is a good overall counter, but dies if Syclant is carrying Earth Power. Blissey is a good counter to the Spec set. Against the Mixant set, Blissey can come in on anything other than Brick Break and Substitute and can 1HKO Syclant with Flamethrower, or use a status move like Sing or Thunderwave. Priority moves, or Pokes that out speed Syclant can deal very heavy damage once they get in.
In order to survive, Syclant relies on its extremely powerful and accurate STAB moves and its impunity to Stealth Rock. Taking either one of these away will weaken it significantly. If it is running the Compound Eyes ability, an opponent that can use Stealth Rock and prevent them from being spun away will stop Syclant in its tracks. If Syclant is using Abomasnow's hail for 100% Acc Blizzard then your own weather changer will hinder it.
I decided that instead of saying "immunity" (to SR), because it wasn't actually immune, just wising there were none out I changed it to impunity.
name: Mixant
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Bug buzz
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Substitute / Earth Power
item: Life Orb
ability: Compound Eyes
nature: Naive / Rash
evs: 200 Atk/ 56 Satk / 252 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
Syclant has the ability to tear through many of the most common walls in D/P. Compound Eyes provided Syclant with an extremely high power 91% accurate STAB in the form of Blizzard. Brick Break deals with Blissey and will 2HKO 90% of the time. Bug buzz provides a strong STAB that deals with many opponents. Substitute can be used if you do not want to risk mispredicting, which will often force Syclant to switch out. It is also useful to absorb Thunder Waves from Blissey and Cresselia. If you do use substitute than Superpower becomes an option over Brick Break as it can 2HKO Blissey with less EVs.
If this set does not have sufficient Rapid Spin support, it will soon fall to passive damage. To combat this you can use Mountaineer over Compound Eyes, but only do this if you use an Abomasnow to set up hail or switch to the significantly weaker ice beam.
[SET]
name: Swords Ant
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Ice Shard / Ice Punch
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Brick Break / U-Turn
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
ability: Mountaineer
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
This is a full physical version of Syclant. It's attack reaches astronomical levels after a Swords Dance. Ice Shard takes care of anything that thinks it can switch in on the Swords Dance and out speed for a KO. Ice Punch provides a more reliable Ice STAB.
Fire fang, Thunder fang, Stone edge, Night slash or Shadow claw could be used over Brick Break / U-Turn. Fire fang dents Forretress, who would otherwise wall you, after a SD. Thunder fang is your best bet against Gyarados. Stone edge (or Rock slide if you don’t like the poor accuracy and want to take advantage of the flinch chance) has great coverage and can 1HKO some Pokemon you would otherwise have problems with after a Swords Dance. Night slash or Shadow claw can beat down Dusknoir and bulky psychics. Superpower is not an option on this set as the attack drop conflicts with sword dance.
[SET]
name: SpecsSycle
move 1: Ice Beam / Blizzard
move 2: Bug buzz
move 3: Super Power / Focus Blast
move 4: Earth Power
item: Choice Specs
ability: Mountaineer / Compound Eyes
nature: +Satk -Def / Timid / Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 Satk / 252 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
This set has the ability to do massage damage to most of the OU metagame, provided you predict right. If you run the low accuracy Blizzard and Focus Blast then use the Compound Eyes ability with heavy Rapid Spin support, as Syclant wants to have the ability to switch in and out freely with this set. If you don't want such a high-maintenance Poke than using running Mountaineer, Super Power and Ice beam allows you to still dent Blissey and also be immune to SR. Keep in mind that only Modest Nature and Focus Blast are able to 2HKO without SR.
[Other Options]
Stone Edge is a good option for dealing with the likes of Moltres and Articuno. Superpower is unable to 1HKO Blissey even with max Atk, so isn't of much note other than on the Choice Specs set, or to 2HKO with less EVs. Thunder Fang and Earth Power will 1HKO Gyarados and Heatran respectively, but don't be tempted to use them on anything that isn't 4x weak as unresisted STAB Blizzard or Bug buzz will usually do more. Most of the time its incredibly powereful STABs will cover it better than a single attack that hits Super Effective against a certain Poke. Choice Band is also an option if you don’t want to have to set up your Physical sweeper, but Syclant isn't build for repeated switch ins. Choice Scarf makes it a decent lead.
[EVs]
Neutral Natured Syclant with max Atk and Life Orb is never guaranteed to 2HKO Blissey with Break Break, but 200 EVs Provide a very reasonable chance and a guaranteed KO with SR in play. Any EVs Leftover from your main form of offence should go into Spd. Always make sure that Syclant can survive two switch ins to SR if running Compound Eyes. This means NEVER give it four Hp EVs. Either eight or none.
[Opinion]
Syclant can tear through some of D/P's prestige walls, but is extremely high maintenance. Its typing is a mixed bag. It has two wonderful STABs for an offensive Poke, but is hindered by a horrible SR weakness. Mountaineer takes care of this, but leaves it using a weaker STAB. If you can keep Syclant in good condition then it will be a great asset to your team.
[Counters]
Tentacruel is a good overall counter, but dies if Syclant is carrying Earth Power. Blissey is a good counter to the Spec set. Against the Mixant set, Blissey can come in on anything other than Brick Break and Substitute and can 1HKO Syclant with Flamethrower, or use a status move like Sing or Thunderwave. Priority moves, or Pokes that out speed Syclant can deal very heavy damage once they get in.
In order to survive, Syclant relies on its extremely powerful and accurate STAB moves and its impunity to Stealth Rock. Taking either one of these away will weaken it significantly. If it is running the Compound Eyes ability, an opponent that can use Stealth Rock and prevent them from being spun away will stop Syclant in its tracks. If Syclant is using Abomasnow's hail for 100% Acc Blizzard then your own weather changer will hinder it.
I decided that instead of saying "immunity" (to SR), because it wasn't actually immune, just wising there were none out I changed it to impunity.
its probably not likely but i would like to help make the second installment in the create a pokemon threads.
i think for our second pokemon, we need a group of people with jobs.
KOA can be a spriter
and we could decide and gather jobs for people. i would be happy with any way to help the next
i think for our second pokemon, we need a group of people with jobs.
KOA can be a spriter
and we could decide and gather jobs for people. i would be happy with any way to help the next
Thanks! Ill edit a stat spread in now...
EDIT: For those who don't want to go back a page, the stat spread ive suggested for the pre-evo is 45/70/40/70/40/65.
This is in regards to Ghandi's Ice Punch comment:
I don't remember where I found it, but this image is the concept art for Metagross. I wanted it to be able to use Ice Punch, so I made sure it was plausible by looking at another Ice Punch user with a similar appendage. Notice how the art on the lower right hand corner has the positioning of the claws exactly like how I made Syclant's claws. In fact, if you look at the same image, judging by the size and shape the claw is, Metagross has to do the so-called "peace symbol" punch as well. Of course, if you're referring to the length of the nails on the sprite, well I'll just ask KOA to shorten it, because if you look at this image:
...you'll notice that the claws are shorter than he depicted it:
Oh by the way, just so everybody knows, both arms are "cannons." Actually, they're cannon claws designed similarly to Metagross. They both have the ability to generate the icy spikes, as well as the ability to crush it so that it can do the punches. The only reason it has only one icy spike is because it made it look cooler.
I don't remember where I found it, but this image is the concept art for Metagross. I wanted it to be able to use Ice Punch, so I made sure it was plausible by looking at another Ice Punch user with a similar appendage. Notice how the art on the lower right hand corner has the positioning of the claws exactly like how I made Syclant's claws. In fact, if you look at the same image, judging by the size and shape the claw is, Metagross has to do the so-called "peace symbol" punch as well. Of course, if you're referring to the length of the nails on the sprite, well I'll just ask KOA to shorten it, because if you look at this image:
...you'll notice that the claws are shorter than he depicted it:
Oh by the way, just so everybody knows, both arms are "cannons." Actually, they're cannon claws designed similarly to Metagross. They both have the ability to generate the icy spikes, as well as the ability to crush it so that it can do the punches. The only reason it has only one icy spike is because it made it look cooler.
@Czir: So you ring punch them then, you dont hit them with a fist but a cannon So if i was to run into a cannon it'd be it punching me in the face, also based on the sprite (which i got most of my analysis from)
Also look at Metagross fists, it's not hollow, thus more like a punch, Also I thought Fang's were given to pokemon who couldn't punch (no other pokemon can get both, unless it's smeargle)
Also look at Metagross fists, it's not hollow, thus more like a punch, Also I thought Fang's were given to pokemon who couldn't punch (no other pokemon can get both, unless it's smeargle)
No mention of taunt? That would ruin blissey, unless it's obi and running flamethrower, but if thats the case, superpower should do even more with the def. drop. Eh.
Anyway I think we need a decent special wall next. =] With an interesting typing. =] idk
Anyway I think we need a decent special wall next. =] With an interesting typing. =] idk
Yes but we can be overly critical on this seeing how we're competitive battlers and we know how much this thing will own.
Fine Ice punch is fine but then it can't learn Ice Fang
Fine Ice punch is fine but then it can't learn Ice Fang
Don't worry 'bout it, KOA. I actually didn't notice that detail until this conversation came up.
if delibird can ice punch and togekiss can focus punch, i think the whole "can it punch with those arms" argument is a bit invalid anyway.
also, i voted broken option at the top. the whole pokemon seems to have been designed to take out everything in the OU metagame. that'd imbalance it. its nice that this much detail has been put in though.
Feraligatr, Charizard, Tyranitar, and Exploud can get both. Granted, none of them learn both through level up, a tutor is required. But they can get both of them.
I was in semi pokemon retirement,but create a poke brought me out retirement.This one of the best idea i have seen since netbattle.The idea worked beautifully due the polls no one persons idea overpowered anybody else,we got a poke that unique and is as good or better than anything thing Nintendo could up with.I have couple thoughts
1.Screw Nintendo.I repeat Screw Nintendo.As cool as to see Nintendo use a poke the fans made we are sitting on something bigger than Nintendo.I always wondered why people obsessed with making a poke sim when they could make their own game.And even if you didn't make a totally original game you can do what the guys for counterstrike did used Half life engine and make a good or better game.
2.When i see create a poke,I see a whole new generation of pokemon like R/S 200 metagame and unlike R/S since we are creating the pokes they will all be competitive pokes that mean no luvdisc,delibirds,sunflora,etc..Basically ever final poke should be able to something in competitive battling
3.Stop calling Syclant borderline broken,It is like people calling garachomp or rhyperior uber before the game came out and when the game actually came out people found pokes to be pretty good probably not uber in garchomp case and rhyperior to be almost a piece of crap.The game will dictate whether a poke is broken not theorymon.If for some reason syclant is broken in the next poll we can create a pokemon that counters it.You may have to create maybe two pokemon counter a poke but these could be new a different pokes which will lead to balance.
4.As for who should mod next poll,If it is one person they could possible word the polls to suit their idea.Two people don't create a tie breaker.So i am guessing either three people together run it which seems weird but is probably the most fair or just have 1 person run it and hope for the fact they have polls gets across the people's will.
5.I think trying to create the next gen pokes is very strong idea.The idea playing a pokemon metagame where 30-40 pokes have real chance is exciting to me and should be to everyone.I have some small suggestions if you where to go that route
- Leave your new evo of old pokes for later,Admit i have seen some cool mod pokes in avatars but new original idea and types would be better unless those new evo of an old poke really bring something different
-The first poll would probably be if we use fire,water,grass starters or some other trio like ghost,psychic,dark.
-I think poke format looks like this
3 starters
4-6 bug pokes
15 water pokes
4-5 normal pokes
15 other types
10 old pokes
2-3 600 range pokes aka T-tar,Meta
Legendary trio
2 ubers
I think following something like should lead to versatile group and the basic building blocks to work.If we just add the pokes that get created to standard play it that works too.Maybe one these days somebody on these boards decide to take a new original game like pokemon to the psp and challenge pokemon and people on this board will know where the game started.
1.Screw Nintendo.I repeat Screw Nintendo.As cool as to see Nintendo use a poke the fans made we are sitting on something bigger than Nintendo.I always wondered why people obsessed with making a poke sim when they could make their own game.And even if you didn't make a totally original game you can do what the guys for counterstrike did used Half life engine and make a good or better game.
2.When i see create a poke,I see a whole new generation of pokemon like R/S 200 metagame and unlike R/S since we are creating the pokes they will all be competitive pokes that mean no luvdisc,delibirds,sunflora,etc..Basically ever final poke should be able to something in competitive battling
3.Stop calling Syclant borderline broken,It is like people calling garachomp or rhyperior uber before the game came out and when the game actually came out people found pokes to be pretty good probably not uber in garchomp case and rhyperior to be almost a piece of crap.The game will dictate whether a poke is broken not theorymon.If for some reason syclant is broken in the next poll we can create a pokemon that counters it.You may have to create maybe two pokemon counter a poke but these could be new a different pokes which will lead to balance.
4.As for who should mod next poll,If it is one person they could possible word the polls to suit their idea.Two people don't create a tie breaker.So i am guessing either three people together run it which seems weird but is probably the most fair or just have 1 person run it and hope for the fact they have polls gets across the people's will.
5.I think trying to create the next gen pokes is very strong idea.The idea playing a pokemon metagame where 30-40 pokes have real chance is exciting to me and should be to everyone.I have some small suggestions if you where to go that route
- Leave your new evo of old pokes for later,Admit i have seen some cool mod pokes in avatars but new original idea and types would be better unless those new evo of an old poke really bring something different
-The first poll would probably be if we use fire,water,grass starters or some other trio like ghost,psychic,dark.
-I think poke format looks like this
3 starters
4-6 bug pokes
15 water pokes
4-5 normal pokes
15 other types
10 old pokes
2-3 600 range pokes aka T-tar,Meta
Legendary trio
2 ubers
I think following something like should lead to versatile group and the basic building blocks to work.If we just add the pokes that get created to standard play it that works too.Maybe one these days somebody on these boards decide to take a new original game like pokemon to the psp and challenge pokemon and people on this board will know where the game started.
There's too many water types nowadays, only water types that ain't been done are
Water/Fight
Water/Ghost (TENTAGHOUL)
Water/Fire
Also I am still sticking to my arguement, he should not be giving Ice fang and Ice Punch
Water/Fight
Water/Ghost (TENTAGHOUL)
Water/Fire
Also I am still sticking to my arguement, he should not be giving Ice fang and Ice Punch
Wee. Time for my comments!
Overall, the amount of thought, discussion and effort that went into the creation of this Pokemon was simply incredible. However, there are a few things that bug me (no pun intened).
Firstly, and most importantly, is the design. Look at every other Pokemon in existance. Syclant's look is way too complicated to fit into the art style of the series. This could be easily fixed, however, by simplifying his wings (by reducing the number of spires or streamlining their appearance), as these appendages cause the most issues.
Secondly, its name bugs me (another pun!). I probably can't come up with a better one (Ant = Antarctic = Antark? Hormiga + Ice = Hormice?), but Syclant is a very forced play on the words it comes from. Additionally, although a minor complaint, it reads much differently than it is intended to be pronounced.
Lastly, it's overpowered. This thing was turned into far more of an ass-kicking badass than it ought to be, and it reeks of ego.
Still, the amount of detail and care is highly commendable!
Overall, the amount of thought, discussion and effort that went into the creation of this Pokemon was simply incredible. However, there are a few things that bug me (no pun intened).
Firstly, and most importantly, is the design. Look at every other Pokemon in existance. Syclant's look is way too complicated to fit into the art style of the series. This could be easily fixed, however, by simplifying his wings (by reducing the number of spires or streamlining their appearance), as these appendages cause the most issues.
Secondly, its name bugs me (another pun!). I probably can't come up with a better one (Ant = Antarctic = Antark? Hormiga + Ice = Hormice?), but Syclant is a very forced play on the words it comes from. Additionally, although a minor complaint, it reads much differently than it is intended to be pronounced.
Lastly, it's overpowered. This thing was turned into far more of an ass-kicking badass than it ought to be, and it reeks of ego.
Still, the amount of detail and care is highly commendable!
Well, just let him with Ice Fang then. He doesn't learn Fire/Thunder Punch anyway.
well water doesnt matter.
how many other type combinations have been done?
i say we present this to the makers of shoddy and let them test it like speed deoxys.
also i think smogon could become, literally, 20x as popular for making their own dex. we have many spriters, we already have a fakedex to work a basis on. it would be fucking amazing! i say lets go for it. we need a poll to see who would contribute to the vast new gen we should make. if we make a whole balanced gen there is NO possible fucking way nintendo will reject all of our ideas. and for sure shoddy will test this dex if we make it.
how many other type combinations have been done?
i say we present this to the makers of shoddy and let them test it like speed deoxys.
also i think smogon could become, literally, 20x as popular for making their own dex. we have many spriters, we already have a fakedex to work a basis on. it would be fucking amazing! i say lets go for it. we need a poll to see who would contribute to the vast new gen we should make. if we make a whole balanced gen there is NO possible fucking way nintendo will reject all of our ideas. and for sure shoddy will test this dex if we make it.
Oh shit, forgot about poliwrath, whoopsie...
As for Tentaghoul I created it in 1999-2000 school year after completing my english exam early, Ever since then I've loved it :D (My only personal create a poke) and Since D/P came out i've found of a way to evolve Tentracruel :D Level up in something similar to Mount Pyre, or better yet Faint :D
As for Tentaghoul I created it in 1999-2000 school year after completing my english exam early, Ever since then I've loved it :D (My only personal create a poke) and Since D/P came out i've found of a way to evolve Tentracruel :D Level up in something similar to Mount Pyre, or better yet Faint :D
I've got close to 70 already, so that's a head start (although I don't actually care for most of them): http://rockothetaco.deviantart.com/gallery/#_featured--2
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