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Smogon's Top Video Games List - Stage 2 (Current topic - REDEMPTIONS)

Oh my god backyard baseball and backyard baseball 2001

That shit was my childhood

Backyard soccer was also excellent
 
Ninja Gaiden 2 is in the pool and not Ninja Gaiden 1? (I'm assuming this is the modern versions) Ninja Gaiden 2 is legitimately trash, and 1 is one of the finest games ever made - this needs to be fixed before voting stage gets there!

Stuff like Luigi's Mansion, Timesplitters Future Perfect and Killzone 2 being in contention and C&C Red Alert, Warcraft 3 and Total Annihilation not is a bit iffy too but looks like a decent list overall.
 
I could have sworn that I nominated Ms. Pac Man, but I see that I accidentally forgot to mention it in my post... -_- My bad.
 
Well, if Pac Man isn't already on the list, I could see if anyone objected to me throwing it on there. I don't think anyone is going to argue about one of those two games being on the list...

Also C&C is at least represented, but it's losing badly right now. I should have nominated Red Alert as well but =/, that's how it goes!
 
WaterBomb said:
Besides, this first part isn't nearly as important as the second part, which will be actually rating and ranking the games once we're down to 100.
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Not nearly as important, and yet many games that deserve discussion won't get to that point.

itt outrage that repetitive generic FPS's aren't considered among the best games ever
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CoD4 wasn't repetitive and generic when it came out. Eliminating a game not at all due to it's own qualities is as biased as you can be.
 
I have played red alert and red alert 2. I have not played C&C. I would have voted for either red alert though! :/
 
Command and Conquer was the first game in the C&C series, C&C: Red Alert was the second. There's actually like 10 or 12 games in the series but Westwood is unfortunately overshadowed by Blizzard so lots of people don't really know about them. They were amazing though, pioneers of the RTS genre.

Anyway, I think we're going to have to accept that Call of Duty and its kin were eliminated. I'm sure Halo will remain in the running to represent the FPS genre, as well as other fun titles like Goldeneye.
 
Halo stays in the running by virtue of the fact that we've put a bit of time between us and Halo 1-3. More bias.

Stop going on about accepting things. This step is faulty to begin with and there is no law of the universe that binds you to it.
 
Westwood wasn't overshadowed by Blizzard back when I was playing Red Alert ;)

@WaterBomb: I don't know how the polls are going but Call of Duty 1 and 2 were classics and I heard 4 was pretty good too but haven't played any after 3. 1 and 2 imo were like an improved successor to Medal of Honour Allied Assault which is saying something.

@vonFiedler: I don't know if you're trying to imply anything but Halo was one of the greatest games ever made whether there is more or less time between it and us, it deserves to be in the top 10 of all time regardless of where Call of Duty ends up.
 
No Luck Involved said:
@vonFiedler: I don't know if you're trying to imply anything but Halo was one of the greatest games ever made whether there is more or less time between it and us, it deserves to be in the top 10 of all time regardless of where Call of Duty ends up.
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Well we can leave that to the discussion stage.

There wasn't a lot of love left for Halo after Halo 3 (with what enthusiasm there was being for the forge), and then it completely died with ODST. Of course that wasn't even the last spin-off the series got dragged through before it finally got a bit of a break. It's exactly what is happening with the CoD franchise. Fact is that CoD4 was a much loved game too, and I believe there's even a thread for Zombies from the other games. For myself I think that Bayonetta was a much better game than both, but I expect it got too many abstains. CoD4 had an intriguing take on PC death. It's not just an FPS, it has artistic merit. That's why no matter how badly Treyarch handles the games, I can't look back and be biased about it. People didn't vote no based on the fun they had when they played it, they voted no based on their feelings about the franchise (and Activision).
 
Group 3 voting has ended, and the following games were eliminated:

Call of Duty: World at War
Castle Crashers
Castlevania 3
Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
Civilization 4
Civilization 5
Commander Keen 4
Counterstrike
Crash Bash
Crimzon Clover

Group 4 is underway, and the survey is available at the bottom of the intro post as usual.

At this point, I need to remind everyone of some of the rules. I've been lenient in allowing discussion, but it's beginning to deteriorate into complaining about my methods. It is stated in the rules that if you don't like how I'm doing this, feel free to make your own list your own way. I feel that I've been more than gracious, and I've made every attempt to make this process as fair as possible. However, I don't see any other practical way to reduce a list of 500 games down to 100 besides a rule-based popular vote. I am not foolish enough to expect us to be able to debate and discuss 500 games individually without it taking years. If you think you have the perfect answer to this problem, please feel free to address me in PM and tell me about it. Do not, however, sit here and tell me my methods are "flawed" or wrong in some way.
 
Honestly I think that voting y/n will only work once, and hopefully narrow it down to around 250 games. After that people will vote the same way and it'll be a waste of time. Also, how could we forget Backyard baseball is a valid question.
 
Counterstrike - Source survived (didn't realize there was another game in that series).

Through discussion with some other users, I'm thinking of implementing a "redemption" system through which a game that was eliminated could be brought back. This would have to be done through legitimate discussion and debate, and due to its nature I would have to take on the authority of "judge" of those arguments. Whichever side has the stronger argument (redeem or remove) would determine the game's fate. Obviously since this is a big step, we would only go to this trouble for the most controversial cases (like Call of Duty), but it's an idea.

What are everyone's thoughts on the redemption system?
 
I think it's a good idea. Probably won't matter if enough people hate a game, but I have no problems with it.

The only thing I have a problem with is that I'm only able to vote on like one game per poll lol.
 
Da Letter El said:
I think it's a good idea. Probably won't matter if enough people hate a game, but I have no problems with it.

The only thing I have a problem with is that I'm only able to vote on like one game per poll lol.
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Well, this is expected with doing things alphabetically. I'm in the same boat, but there will probably be some groups that happen to have many games you've played in them, and some that have few.

I think what will aid the redemption system is that it will not be based on popular vote, but the merit and strength of the arguments for/against it. If 10 people all hate a game but none of them can form a coherent argument against it, but 2 people like a game and make a compelling argument in its favor, that game can be added back to the list. Keep in mind, this does not earn that game a spot on the top 100 automatically, it simply gives it another chance to contend.
 
imo source > 1.6 so i'm fine with that.

Although the fact that 4 Castlevania games and 4 Crash Bandicoot games are all being considered in a top 100 list blows my mind. I've never owned a Crash Bandicoot game but I find it hard to believe that an entire trilogy is on this list + a racing spin off.
 
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