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Hello Monotypers, today I am presenting round 4 results for the Crown Tundra tournament. Let's take a look at some new trends and whatnot that have happened this week. S/o again to Ticken and Milak for making this spreadsheet happen. Look here for their post and please give it a like!
No bans this week!
Also next week I'll be doing match analysis instead of a table like this since we are now in the top 8 and a lot of types likely won't get used at all.
Type:
Winrate:
Games used this week: (compared to last week) [Compared to week 2] {Compared to Week 1}
* HO has been completely phased out in favor of balance
* All of the balance cores have a Tornadus-T on them
* A lot of variety in team comps even with only 3 recorded games this week
* Seems popular at the moment
* Standard archetype seems to be Bulky Offense now.
* Aegislash and Spectrier sets are still undefined at the moment.
* Aegi has been seen running Weakness Policy, Choice Band and Sub Toxic
* Spectrier has been seen with Sub Disable or choiced sets.
This might be a niche opinion, but I feel like HDB Dragonite is pretty OP at the moment.
While it has insufficient slots to cover everything it needs to, certain types have basically no efficient counterplay to it whatsoever, and it's additionally insulting how it can stop a set up sweeper or check super effective moves that threaten its team with Multiscale.
Also dislike how it's essentially a Mimikyu (ie. a pokemon that almost always trades net positive) for Dragon & Flying, two types which are pretty oppressive with a higher average power per pokemon than everything else besides Steel.
Would be glad to hear anyone's thoughts or rebukes~
This might be a niche opinion, but I feel like HDB Dragonite is pretty OP at the moment.
While it has insufficient slots to cover everything it needs to, certain types have basically no efficient counterplay to it whatsoever, and it's additionally insulting how it can stop a set up sweeper or check super effective moves that threaten its team with Multiscale.
Also dislike how it's essentially a Mimikyu (ie. a pokemon that almost always trades net positive) for Dragon & Flying, two types which are pretty oppressive with a higher average power per pokemon than everything else besides Steel.
Would be glad to hear anyone's thoughts or rebukes~
Yes, it's very good, able to set up on most things and then proceed to sweep at +1 late game. But every type has counters to it, I also agree HDB makes it far better than it was last gen. Thiers definitely a reason it's ranked S on dragon and A on flying. Another thing it can run is a defensive stall set with it's access to roost, heal bell, toxic, or sub it can definitely chip down teams I have seen it a bit on ladder and such. I believe Roxiee has brought up a similar set on this discussion thread.
Yes, it's very good, able to set up on most things and then proceed to sweep at +1 late game. But every type has counters to it, I also agree HDB makes it far better than it was last gen. Thiers definitely a reason it's ranked S on dragon and A on flying. Another thing it can run is a defensive stall set with it's access to roost, heal bell, toxic, or sub it can definitely chip down teams I have seen it a bit on ladder and such. I believe Roxiee has brought up a similar set on this discussion thread.
While there isn’t a hard counter on electric, there are lots of ways to generate counterplay.
Rotom outspeeds unboosted DNight, and can burn or paralyze which cripples Dragonite. Scarf Rotom can also trick a scarf/specs onto DNight on the turn it sets up, or even after it does so to lock it into an undesirable attack. If all else fails, Rotom can force DNight into Outrage, allowing Koko to kill it assuming multiscale is broken.
Screens can help against it significantly. After a single DDance, DNight cannot kill either Rotom or Tapu Koko through reflect:
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat through Reflect: 156-183 (51.4 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko through Reflect: 210-248 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Jolly Tapu Koko outspeeds +1 Adamant DNite, so volt switching Rotom into Koko is an option (not sure if Jolly or Adamant is more popular for DNight). Scarf Koko outspeeds +2 Jolly DNight.
Even with no speed investment and a neural nature, Regieleki outspeeds +1 Jolly DNight. 252+ SpA is likely to kill DNight after multiscale is broken though it depends on how much chip DNight took. Specs guarantees the kill.
252+ SpA Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite in Electric Terrain: 262-309 (81.1 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You can also deal massive amounts of damage with Volt Switch, so Volt Switch into a weakened Pokémon to sack + TBolt kills even through multiscale.
252+ SpA Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite in Electric Terrain: 131-154 (40.5 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite in Electric Terrain: 262-309 (81.1 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Dragonite gets the 2HKO against Regieleki with Extreme Speed, but if DNight hasn’t set up yet Regieleki stops it from doing so because +1 Extreme Speed doesn’t OHKO. Again, screens help because +1 DNight doesn’t even get a 2HKO against 252 HP Regieleki with Extreme Speed.
Thundurus-I lives a +1 Extreme Speed, is immune to and can switch in on Earthquake, and has Prankster TWave. If DNight wants to OHKO Thundurus, it needs to use Outrage which again lets Koko get the KO.
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 196-231 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Zapdos is immune to Earthquake and with enough Def EVs is four hit KO’d by +1 Jolly Extreme Speed. +1 Adamant Extreme Speed is 50% to 3HKO.
+1 252 Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 107-127 (27.8 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
I am not sure what EVs Zapdos typically runs, but the set that Smogon’s calculator recommends (aka the recommended set from last gen) survives +1 Outrage.
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 118-139 (30.7 - 36.1%) -- 53% chance to 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 176 Def Zapdos: 312-367 (81.2 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Like Thundurus, you can switch Zapdos in on Earthquakes to protect your other Pokémon. Unlike Thundurus though, Zapdos can take some serious hits if the opponent predicts the switch. Zapdos can also cheese a paralysis with its Static ability.
as HO lead for fighting? I mean for a type that's so offensively oriented I feel like it's a good lead. I like to pair it with stuff like sub bu zapdos or buzzwole to not break their sub under screens, but any frail setup attacker will do, and fighting isn't lacking those
as HO lead for fighting? I mean for a type that's so offensively oriented I feel like it's a good lead. I like to pair it with stuff like sub bu zapdos or buzzwole to not break their sub under screens, but any frail setup attacker will do, and fighting isn't lacking those
I did but I'm not sure this slot can be a lead since it usually has to check Regieleki (whether you use Kommo-o, Virizion or even Toxicroak Sucker Punch). Besides you already have a decent lead in Cobalion which can pivot as well, so I doubt this will become too trendy.
Today, I would like to discuss on a sort of controversial Topic that is Heavy Duty Boots.
Ever since its introduction, the item has changed almost every single metagame out there and people who have played multiple previous generations and are still playing the current generation can perhaps feel the change that it brings in how the game is played, teamslot choices and also in terms of building. It wouldn't be unwise to say that 'Boots have shadowed a good integral part of the game i.e hazards.' First let us take a look at some points:
1. Removes Risk of running Pokemon weak to Stealth Rocks:
Thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots, Pokemon having weakness to Stealth Rock are seeing a new breath of life as it has allowed such Pokemon to be much more splash-able without thinking too much about their entry hazard susceptibility. This indicates that the item is not solely used to circumvent the weakness but hazard damage entirely. Pokemon such as Volcarona, Dragonite, Zapdos, Cinderace, Moltres, Mantine, Mandibuzz, Pelipper, Kyurem etc are some of the examples that greatly benefit from Heavy-Duty boots and makes running such Pokemon entirely risk free and is quite rewarding in nature. Out of the examples mentioned, Cinderace, Volcarona and Dragonite are probably some of the best Heavy-Duty Boots users and the reason they are so good and hard to face with their respective sets is because they no longer have to care about Stealth Rock. One can individually go through each of the examples mentioned and gauge that these Pokemon now require more straight forward answers.
Heavy-Duty Boots have impacted:
* Stealth Rock
* Spikes
* Toxic Spikes
* Sticky Web
Because of this now some teams can get away by not running an effective hazard control or perhaps even no entry hazard of their own.
The addition of Heavy-duty boots have also shadowed leftovers as an item, why would someone use passive recovery when you do not take damage from entry hazards in the first place, right?
Examples of Pokemon cited above now need more 'direct' answers and one cannot really hope to check / chip such Pokemon indirectly through hazards.
2. Pokemon not weak to Stealth Rock running Heavy-Duty Boots: There are a good number of Pokemon that like to have this as an item since it makes them harder to check. Pokemon with Regenerator as ability are some of the best ones to have this as an item since now they do not take damage upon entry and can pretty safely pivot in and out while gaining health. In previous generations, it was comparatively easier to pressure regenerator as with hazards damage combined with the damage taken on pivoting meant that the Pokemon can be pressured. Some of examples are Slowbro, Slowking, Galarian Slowking, Tornadus-Therian, Amoongus. Some other Pokemon sporting HDB as an item are Blissey, Heliolisk, Tapu Bulu, Hatterene. I would like to point out that one cannot hope to check Tapu Bulu, Heliolisk, Hatterene with Toxic Spikes anymore and so the match-up can be more lopsided.
3. Boots have changed the way how the game progresses and how the damage is taken: With HDB, Pivoting is essentially free, no downside of switching out except maybe Rocky Helmet, Iron barbs, Static or any other such niche ability. Boots have changed how the damage is taken and how the game enfolds since the games no longer revolves around entry hazards as compared to previous generations, its much more direct now.
Perhaps one can say that previous generation have more or less revolved around hazards, setting it up and removing and this gen has brought something new to this case. I agree wholeheartedly that Tradition Fallacy < Game Evolving however I think we need to monitor how it is impacting the way metagame develops and think about it.
I would love to see well informed and educated posts on this topic and what other community members feel how boots have impacted Monotype for better or worse.
Today, I would like to discuss on a sort of controversial Topic that is Heavy Duty Boots. View attachment 301500
Ever since its introduction, the item has changed almost every single metagame out there and people who have played multiple previous generations and are still playing the current generation can perhaps feel the change that it brings in how the game is played, teamslot choices and also in terms of building. It wouldn't be unwise to say that 'Boots have shadowed a good integral part of the game i.e hazards.' First let us take a look at some points:
1. Removes Risk of running Pokemon weak to Stealth Rocks:
Thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots, Pokemon having weakness to Stealth Rock are seeing a new breath of life as it has allowed such Pokemon to be much more splash-able without thinking too much about their entry hazard susceptibility. This indicates that the item is not solely used to circumvent the weakness but hazard damage entirely. Pokemon such as Volcarona, Dragonite, Zapdos, Cinderace, Moltres, Mantine, Mandibuzz, Pelipper, Kyurem etc are some of the examples that greatly benefit from Heavy-Duty boots and makes running such Pokemon entirely risk free and is quite rewarding in nature. Out of the examples mentioned, Cinderace, Volcarona and Dragonite are probably some of the best Heavy-Duty Boots users and the reason they are so good and hard to face with their respective sets is because they no longer have to care about Stealth Rock. One can individually go through each of the examples mentioned and gauge that these Pokemon now require more straight forward answers.
Heavy-Duty Boots have impacted:
* Stealth Rock
* Spikes
* Toxic Spikes
* Sticky Web
Because of this now some teams can get away by not running an effective hazard control or perhaps even no entry hazard of their own.
The addition of Heavy-duty boots have also shadowed leftovers as an item, why would someone use passive recovery when you do not take damage from entry hazards in the first place, right?
Examples of Pokemon cited above now need more 'direct' answers and one cannot really hope to check / chip such Pokemon indirectly through hazards.
2. Pokemon not weak to Stealth Rock running Heavy-Duty Boots: There are a good number of Pokemon that like to have this as an item since it makes them harder to check. Pokemon with Regenerator as ability are some of the best ones to have this as an item since now they do not take damage upon entry and can pretty safely pivot in and out while gaining health. In previous generations, it was comparatively easier to pressure regenerator as with hazards damage combined with the damage taken on pivoting meant that the Pokemon can be pressured. Some of examples are Slowbro, Slowking, Galarian Slowking, Tornadus-Therian, Amoongus. Some other Pokemon sporting HDB as an item are Blissey, Heliolisk, Tapu Bulu, Hatterene. I would like to point out that one cannot hope to check Tapu Bulu, Heliolisk, Hatterene with Toxic Spikes anymore and so the match-up can be more lopsided.
3. Boots have changed the way how the game progresses and how the damage is taken: With HDB, Pivoting is essentially free, no downside of switching out except maybe Rocky Helmet, Iron barbs, Static or any other such niche ability. Boots have changed how the damage is taken and how the game enfolds since the games no longer revolves around entry hazards as compared to previous generations, its much more direct now.
Perhaps one can say that previous generation have more or less revolved around hazards, setting it up and removing and this gen has brought something new to this case. I agree wholeheartedly that Tradition Fallacy < Game Evolving however I think we need to monitor how it is impacting the way metagame develops and think about it.
I would love to see well informed and educated posts on this topic and what other community members feel how boots have impacted Monotype for better or worse.
I feel like this question would be better directed to Smogon at large instead of just mono tbh. Personally I think boots are fine, they're really strong but it's nice to see it breathe new life into types that would otherwise fall way out of usage like fire, ice, bug, etc.. But in every thread about boots, there will always be the elephant in the room: boots are only good because our metagame is dominated immensely by hazards. In that regard, who's the bigger culprit?
Today, I would like to discuss on a sort of controversial Topic that is Heavy Duty Boots. View attachment 301500
Ever since its introduction, the item has changed almost every single metagame out there and people who have played multiple previous generations and are still playing the current generation can perhaps feel the change that it brings in how the game is played, teamslot choices and also in terms of building. It wouldn't be unwise to say that 'Boots have shadowed a good integral part of the game i.e hazards.' First let us take a look at some points:
1. Removes Risk of running Pokemon weak to Stealth Rocks:
Thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots, Pokemon having weakness to Stealth Rock are seeing a new breath of life as it has allowed such Pokemon to be much more splash-able without thinking too much about their entry hazard susceptibility. This indicates that the item is not solely used to circumvent the weakness but hazard damage entirely. Pokemon such as Volcarona, Dragonite, Zapdos, Cinderace, Moltres, Mantine, Mandibuzz, Pelipper, Kyurem etc are some of the examples that greatly benefit from Heavy-Duty boots and makes running such Pokemon entirely risk free and is quite rewarding in nature. Out of the examples mentioned, Cinderace, Volcarona and Dragonite are probably some of the best Heavy-Duty Boots users and the reason they are so good and hard to face with their respective sets is because they no longer have to care about Stealth Rock. One can individually go through each of the examples mentioned and gauge that these Pokemon now require more straight forward answers.
Heavy-Duty Boots have impacted:
* Stealth Rock
* Spikes
* Toxic Spikes
* Sticky Web
Because of this now some teams can get away by not running an effective hazard control or perhaps even no entry hazard of their own.
The addition of Heavy-duty boots have also shadowed leftovers as an item, why would someone use passive recovery when you do not take damage from entry hazards in the first place, right?
Examples of Pokemon cited above now need more 'direct' answers and one cannot really hope to check / chip such Pokemon indirectly through hazards.
2. Pokemon not weak to Stealth Rock running Heavy-Duty Boots: There are a good number of Pokemon that like to have this as an item since it makes them harder to check. Pokemon with Regenerator as ability are some of the best ones to have this as an item since now they do not take damage upon entry and can pretty safely pivot in and out while gaining health. In previous generations, it was comparatively easier to pressure regenerator as with hazards damage combined with the damage taken on pivoting meant that the Pokemon can be pressured. Some of examples are Slowbro, Slowking, Galarian Slowking, Tornadus-Therian, Amoongus. Some other Pokemon sporting HDB as an item are Blissey, Heliolisk, Tapu Bulu, Hatterene. I would like to point out that one cannot hope to check Tapu Bulu, Heliolisk, Hatterene with Toxic Spikes anymore and so the match-up can be more lopsided.
3. Boots have changed the way how the game progresses and how the damage is taken: With HDB, Pivoting is essentially free, no downside of switching out except maybe Rocky Helmet, Iron barbs, Static or any other such niche ability. Boots have changed how the damage is taken and how the game enfolds since the games no longer revolves around entry hazards as compared to previous generations, its much more direct now.
Perhaps one can say that previous generation have more or less revolved around hazards, setting it up and removing and this gen has brought something new to this case. I agree wholeheartedly that Tradition Fallacy < Game Evolving however I think we need to monitor how it is impacting the way metagame develops and think about it.
I would love to see well informed and educated posts on this topic and what other community members feel how boots have impacted Monotype for better or worse.
I like this topic and I am glad that you brought this to the table. People might brush it off as a conversation about the new gen or game in general but in Monotype this item has a drastic impact.
In the past, some types were banished into irrelevance due to heavy weakness to Stealth Rocks for example such as Ice, Bug and Fire. Having to fit defog/rapid spin for your team to be even remotely unviable was very cumbersome and a pain in general. New life has been breathed into those types and they are now much more competitively viable, as proven by the decent usage of those 3 types in BLT and MPL earlier this year.
However this works both ways, there were strong types like Flying and Dragon that possessed great pokemon capable of thriving even with the threat of hazards but were still hindered by the presence of Stealth Rocks which acted as a natural method of balancing some of the higher tier types. This ties in to your 3rd point, HDB is a game changer now. A Pokemon like Dragonite barring ice moves and extremely boosted pokemon, is a bona fide sashed pokemon which allows it to get a guaranteed dragon dance or stop a sweep. Walls/Tanks with a rocks weakness can switch in more fearlessly and generally removes a calc/worry off your shoulders. I think this truth was slightly hidden from us due to the poor quality of Flying pokemon available pre-dlc 2.
The more serious "problem" if you would call it that is tying to your 2nd and 3rd point, the fact that pokemon can pivot for free changes monotype gameplay massively. As you said, previous metas were built around hazards. When you built a team you used to start with a stealth rocker and a spinner or defogger, these were considered basics and HDB is changing that and we can see it with every game. Hazard leads, pocket defog on a scarfed pokemon, and even having a stealth rocker are becoming less and less essential. Regenerator pokemon are a great example of how it can be frustratingly easy to pivot defensively and removing so much counterplay. A simpler use of it like on pokemon such as Blissey or Amoonguss where HDB are just there to stop you getting chipped on entry, in fact this can be done on anything. I dislike this side of the HDB usage, since it spells the end of the days when a type could be rendered viable by Sticky Webs, a cheeky Toxic Spikes Hex tech, or even expertly whittling down teams with hazards without going overly aggressive. You could say that it's as if a layer of play has been removed from the game.
Let's cheer up, not everyone is using HDB! Another way of seeing this conundrum is that another layer of play has been added. For example Walls have now more options from rocky helmet, leftovers and black sludge. It adds much more value to Knock Off, Trick, Switcheroo, Klutz Skill swap, Frisk, Pickpocket/Magician, Covet or Corrosive Gas which I think will be much more meta in the future. The massive impact of HDB could also equate to playing a sizable part of a team's strategy and if counterplayed could swing matchups.
I think that HDB will overall have a positive effect on Monotype maybe more than in other tiers, and believe that some of the annoyance and frustration will find counterplay soon. I hope that we don't get to the point where if you ask a newer monotype player what Rapid Spin does, he tells you it's just to get +1 speed. Hazards are cool, I hope they stay part of the meta.
Hello monotypers! Today I'll be making a post about some of the noticeable metagame trends that I have seen in MWP3 for SS monotype. With a highly competitive sample size of 51 games, I have found some notable trends that I think are worth mentioning in this thread.
Please note that Landorus-I was banned after week 2, meaning in week 3 it was not allowed in SS monotype.
Of the types that were used, here is a synopsis on their performance so far in the tournament:
Dark: With a decent amount of usage and a fair winrate, dark seems to be an up and coming type in the metagame since its relative unpopular status in previous tournaments. With Urshifu-S and Zarude becoming very dominant Pokemon and also having a good natural matchup against the common Steel and Water teams in the metagame. Weavile has also seen a fair amount of usage to assist Tyranitar in dismantling Flying-type teams. We can see in games like Gorex vs Sabella and Kaguya Lys vs Bushtush how the popular types had a hard time dealing with some of Dark's most common Pokemon. While these games make it seem great, the reason behind its lower usage is that a well-played Urshifu-R on Water can still break the type, and without Weavile Flying can be extremely hard to deal with especially if it has Zapdos-G. Nevertheless, it is evident that this type is definitely one to be accounted for in teambuilding, especially as the deadline for playoffs approaches.
Dragon: While it does have a surprising lack of usage, Dragon does show up and do well when it does come out. Boasting a modest 67% winrate shows that dragon is still a force to be reckoned with even if it is not nearly as common as types like Steel or Water. As shown by Isza in his bo3 against Leru even with small adjustments to check Dragon-types, Dragon teams still thrive when played well and aggressively against the more bulky metagame that has taken over MWP3. With offensive powerhouses like Dragon Dance Dragapult, Nasty Plot Hydreigon, Swords Dance Garchomp, Kyurem as a whole, and more, it is easy to see why this type is able to do well against a majority of the metagame. Not only does this type have these strong breakers though, but it has access to the buffed Healing Wish from Latias, which allows the pressure to keep on going even after getting forced out. Overall, this type is still dangerous and should not be underestimated if the past 3 weeks are anything to go by.
Electric: Despite being uncommon, electric has shocked the MWP3 scene with its relative consistency. Many thought that Electric was simply not that good, but it has done surprisingly well in spite of these beliefs. Game 2 of Isza vs Leru highlights how Electric can still take down a solid type like dark when it uses its tools effectively. Tapu Koko is still amazing on the type and Zeraora is still incredibly good at breaking down most defensive teams, while the playerbase still feels that the type isn't that great, the results show otherwise.
Fairy: Fairy did incredibly poorly during the first few weeks when Landorus-I was still allowed. This Pokemon was such a problem for fairy that some teams even went as far as to using ninetales-alola just to counter it, but this worked to no avail. Even without landorus, fairy teams had a hard time beating Ground and Flying teams due to threats like Sand Rush Excadrill and Celesteela respectively. Despite this, once Landorus was banned fairy began to win more. This may be because of the increased usage of Water and Fairy having a decent MU against it thanks to Tapu Bulu and Tapu Koko. Speaking of Tapus, usually only two tapus are used on a team. Tapu Bulu and Tapu Lele is the most common pairing, but some teams have used Tapu Fini over Tapu Lele before. The most shocking thing is the lack of Tapu Koko usage, while I don't know the reasoning personally, it can be inferred that Koko is seeing less usage because of more players using Alolan Ninetales to beat Flying teams and pressure Water teams. Another thing to note is the lack of Mimikyu usage and the rise of Clefable usage. Mimikyu likely is being used less as a response to Tapu Lele becoming more popular on fairy teams, as Mimikyu relies heavily on its priority to check opposing Psychic- and Ghost-types but in Psychic Terrain it becomes harder to do that. So people have begun to drop it and use only one priority user in Azumarill, who offers more and is worth supporting more than Mimikyu is. Clefable has been popping up with many different sets during these three weeks as well. There are bulky Rocky Helmet sets and as shown in Floss' game vs Trichotomy there is also Calm Mind sets beginning to emerge. The Calm Mind sets were created as a way to ease the Flying and Water MU's for Fairy, as even with access to Bulu and Koko, their respective terrain nerfs as well as Koko losing Hidden Power Ice make it harder for them to consistently threaten those types on their own, so Clefable has adapted to help make the MU's easier to win. Overall, Fairy has seen massive shifts in its viability and team composition, and only time can tell what it will look like by the end of this tour.
Flying: One of the most common types in the metagame, and it isn't hard to see why. It had some of the most powerful defensive and offensive pokemon in the metagame, and was able to handle a wide array of MUs very well. Some notable shifts happened during the week, however. For example, Mandibuzz became more common due to its ability to handle Spectrier and other scary Ghost-types in the metagame. Landorus was also banned for being too strong against types like Steel and Poison, limiting their options and making it hard to play against. Flying has gone through a lot and despite this, it still provides results. Shockingly, there isn't much to talk about with this type. Some notable pokemon that have made appearances are Zapdos-G to help deal with Dark-types and a ton of Thundurus-I usage to deal with the copious amounts of water and also handle the mirror incredibly well. People have begun to prep more for flying as the weeks have gone on, so its popularity may die a little, but the mark it made on the metagame will not.
Ghost: One of the scariest types in the metagame if not prepped for... Which is why it was the most prepped for type by far. Spectrier and its powerful Shadow Balls made every top player quiver in fear and had everyone searching for answers as to how to deal with this type and that behemoth of a mon. Better offensive types and bulky Dark-types seemed to be the answer as shown by previous metagame shifts listed here. The result of this fear of ghost leads to its 3-4 overall record, which may make it seem like it isn't a threat, but don't be fooled, it was one of the most fretted types in the metagame at one point. It seems more tame now, but there may be a time where it spikes up in usage again because the meta becomes more friendly to Spectrier's Shadow Ball spam.
Ground: An overall solid type that got nerfed in week 3 due to the Landorus-I ban. With Lando-I it was able to break most types with ease, thanks to its absurdly powerful Earth Powers and incredible coverage moves in Focus Blast and Sludge Wave to deal with would-be checks to it. This doesn't even mention Gravity, which makes his Earth Powers hit Flying-types and gives Focus Blast reliable accuracy, which when added onto Lando's Sheer Force and Life Orb combo, makes for one of the best wallbreakers in the metagame, which is probably why it got the boot by the council after week 2. In its place Landorus-T and Nidoking cores have taken over and are still doing well, but the impact ground had on the metagame was seismic, groundbreaking if you will.
Steel: Steel unsurprisingly has done very well this tournament due to its naturally solid nature and great core of Pokemon. While Melmetal hasn't seen a ton of usage, it still shows up from time to time and does decently. One thing of note is that Steel has begun to use Skarmory over Celesteela due to the fact that Urshifu-R has made it hard for steel teams to rely on Celesteela as a consistent switchin to the mon. Skarmory's superior Defense, access to Roost, and ability to phase with Whirlwind makes it more favorable in dealing with that threat and is why Skarmory has seen a lot more usage lately. Besides this steel still does the same things it always does, and it still does them effectively.
Water: The most common type in the tournament so far, and yet its doing very poorly. Historically, water has always had a lot of popularity in monotype team tours and then gets cteamed after a week or two, leading to its downfall. Let's just say that some things never change, and water has followed this pattern once again. Water was greatly buffed by the return of Ursfhifu-R allowing it to use its bulky cores with Teleport Slowking to generate free offensive pressure and cause long drawn-out games of whittling down the opposition. This along with Pokemon like Tapu Fini make it harder to wear down water as a whole and is likely why many players decided to use it during the first few weeks of this tournament. Now that everyone knows the tricks behind water, it has been accounted for and prepped for accordingly.
Honorable mentions: Grass - Nice anti-meta type to snipe Water and Ground users, but beyond that it is tough to justify this type due to its overwhelming amount of weaknesses Fire - Decent offensive type that has been smothered by the amount of water usage and can't seem to catch a break from rain-based teams. Poison - A type that has been brought and not proven itself yet due to multiple factors, things like Earthquake glowbro have popped up recently to check threats like Heatran but to no avail. Psychic - Decent type that may get more popular as time goes on.
Thank you for reading this post! Have a happy holiday's everyone :)
Let's spark some discussion :D. The metagame is to a point where Spectrier-specific counters like: Lum Berry Bisharp, SpD Mandibuzz, and RestTalk Drapion have became a common trend to beat Spectrier based off quality MWP replays. Spectrier is undeniably a centralizing Pokemon in the SS Monotype metagame because of its Ghost-STAB, ability to take advantage of passive walls. Because of its overall stats, Spectrier is able to fulfill quite a few roles in Monotype. Spectrier specifically acting as a defensive sweeper has Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers and defensive walls to boost the damage of Hex. Both Will-O-Wisp and Calm Mind helps its attempts in pulling a Substitute off to avoid status. I feel like we have to separate the terms centralizing and overcentralizing in the metagame. I take centralizing as a very great Pokemon in that specific tier that requires specific counters/checks just to beat it while overcentralizing just being too much. We also have to take into account that just because another tier is suspected something does not it validates as an argument that it should be suspected or is broken in Monotype. Spectrier is after all only available on one type, Ghost, and I and several members do not consider Ghost as a whole as a great type to run at the moment. Let me know your thoughts!
Let's spark some discussion :D. The metagame is to a point where Spectrier-specific counters like: Lum Berry Bisharp, SpD Mandibuzz, and RestTalk Drapion have became a common trend to beat Spectrier based off quality MWP replays. Spectrier is undeniably a centralizing Pokemon in the SS Monotype metagame because of its Ghost-STAB, ability to take advantage of passive walls. Because of its overall stats, Spectrier is able to fulfill quite a few roles in Monotype. Spectrier specifically acting as a defensive sweeper has Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers and defensive walls to boost the damage of Hex. Both Will-O-Wisp and Calm Mind helps its attempts in pulling a Substitute off to avoid status. I feel like we have to separate the terms centralizing and overcentralizing in the metagame. I take centralizing as a very great Pokemon in that specific tier that requires specific counters/checks just to beat it while overcentralizing just being too much. We also have to take into account that just because another tier is suspected something does not it validates as an argument that it should be suspected or is broken in Monotype. Spectrier is after all only available on one type, Ghost, and I and several members do not consider Ghost as a whole as a great type to run at the moment. Let me know your thoughts!
I agree with all of your post, except the very end of it. When you talk about these things, always focus on how GOOD or BROKEN a mon is and leave the type relevance out of the discussion, because if that mattered, we could allow like Arceus-Rock on Rock on the fact that the type sucks. Either way, I think this is a good talking point here, but keep what I said in mind!
Let's spark some discussion :D. The metagame is to a point where Spectrier-specific counters like: Lum Berry Bisharp, SpD Mandibuzz, and RestTalk Drapion have became a common trend to beat Spectrier based off quality MWP replays. Spectrier is undeniably a centralizing Pokemon in the SS Monotype metagame because of its Ghost-STAB, ability to take advantage of passive walls. Because of its overall stats, Spectrier is able to fulfill quite a few roles in Monotype. Spectrier specifically acting as a defensive sweeper has Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers and defensive walls to boost the damage of Hex. Both Will-O-Wisp and Calm Mind helps its attempts in pulling a Substitute off to avoid status. I feel like we have to separate the terms centralizing and overcentralizing in the metagame. I take centralizing as a very great Pokemon in that specific tier that requires specific counters/checks just to beat it while overcentralizing just being too much. We also have to take into account that just because another tier is suspected something does not it validates as an argument that it should be suspected or is broken in Monotype. Spectrier is after all only available on one type, Ghost, and I and several members do not consider Ghost as a whole as a great type to run at the moment. Let me know your thoughts!
First, I agree, Spectrier is a really dangerous Pokemon, no need to be a genius to know that: Its speed, some moves (Sub, Disable, WoW, CM, Nasty Plot) are awsomes and its ability is fire too.
But, Spectrier is limited in its movepool diversity: Ghost and sometimes Dark moves. Which makes it limited.
Its bulk is ok, not good but ok, Its physically bulk, even if it burns one Pokemon is still not strong enough to freely put a sub mostly.
However, I don't think it overcentralize the metagame: U talked about Mandibuzz, Drapion and Bisharp as specific counter, I don't agree, Mandibuzz in Flying (because classic Pokemon in Dark) isn't played only for that reason, u have the Psychic spam (with Psychic Surge, ...), Dragapult (played in Dragon and Ghost something like 95-99% of the time), I don't call that a specific answer.
Drapion is always played in Poison, not only because of Spectrier but, like I said, for these others Pokemon, especially the psychic spam, otherise, u are 6-0 by Psychic dumbly.
Bisharp Lum was already a set before in XY, ORAS, SM, USUM, and it's still a really good Pokemon for Steel/Dark types because of its huge atk + ability + Priority/Knock Off.
U are talking about Centralizing Pokemon, fine, Spectrier is one like many others at the same level, I'm talking about Urshifu, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Dracovish, Dragapult, ... All of them are dangerous and ur team has to be prepaired to face its (And I even think I forget some Pokemon).
I liked ur differentiation between Centralizing and Over-centralizing, but I think Spectrier is in the Centralizing category (like others Pokemon named above).
I'm not agree when u are saying "it's only playable in one type" so it's less worse than if it was playable in another type? No, if a Pokemon is broken even in one type, it's banned.
Same concerning the potential of Ghost type, right now, it's a good type. Maybe not a top type, but still a solid type.
To resume: Spectrier is, in my opinion, a centralized Pokemon like many others.
I would say its tier is somewhere around middle right now, an offensive type that is difficult to pilot and doesnt have too many great matchups, yet can perform against some of the top tiers with proper build.
Galarian Darmanitan is one of strongest offensive Ice-type Pokemon, Gorilla Tactics is essentially a free Choice Band. It also has decent coverage moves in Flare Blitz and Earthquake, as well as U-turn for momentum. You also have options such as Ninetales-Alola, Mamoswine, Weavile, and Kyurem which are all viable offensively and offer something to Ice teams. Ice-types unfortunately are not good defensively, as by game design they have only one resistance which is ice. Factoring this, and the fact that most viable Ice-types are offensive thus they dont use Heavy-Duty Boots so the majority of type is weak to entry hazards, it is fair to consider Ice types are frail. However, there are some Ice-types that provide defensive utility, such as Eviolite Piloswine which can succesfully take on a Volcarona and Lapras which can block Water-type attacks, as well as Avalugg which has a beastly defense stat and is the team's primary spinner.
When we determine a type's viability, there are a lot of factors that needs to be considered, and one of them is consistency. Consistency is what we call when a type gets frequent usage and gets considerably high amount of success against the entire metagame. The reason why Ice doesnt get usage is there are a lot of types that can just outperform Ice-teams, two prime examples being Steel ( The defensive core of Steel paired with Protect spam makes it very difficult to overcome the matchup) and Psychic ( Jirachi threathens everything, and Weavile is checked by Slowbro.), so it is difficult to expect a great success out of ice types.(Especially when these two types are literally everywhere.) It still is great type to fish matchups with, as it also has strong matchups against Dragon and Flying. Overall, using Ice teams has more downsides than its benefits, so it doesnt see a lot of usage. It still sees tournament play sometimes, here are 2 examples of Ice being used in Monotype Winter Premier League.
My favorite format is Monotype and I want to make my own team instead of using samples. The thing is I have no idea what sort of thought should go into team building. For example I would like to create a Rock type team. What should I take into consideration when creating the team? Sorry if I shouldn't post this here. If I'm not supposed to please tell me where I should go.
My favorite format is Monotype and I want to make my own team instead of using samples. The thing is I have no idea what sort of thought should go into team building. For example I would like to create a Rock type team. What should I take into consideration when creating the team? Sorry if I shouldn't post this here. If I'm not supposed to please tell me where I should go.
I would account for the best types in the meta and make sure you have answers to them . Consider Ghost , Water, and Steel the most. Then flying and Electric.Then consider the composition that you want-hyper offence or balance. I would definitely consider the monotype tier list. Anything that is S rank imo should be mandatory on your team. So for example add Tyranitar to leverage the Ghost mu heavily in your favour. Shuckle to provide crucial hazards and speed control. And terrakion to add MUCH needed speed and arguably the best STAB combo in the game. Next I would add cradily to give you an amazing water immunity and Coalossal with rocky helmet or leftovers and flame body, to stack hazards spin and burn physical attackers with flame body. Last I would have nihilego to act as a special attacker or you're screwed by Steel, banded lycanrock dusk if you want something fun and fast with priority. Or rhyperior to give a great ground immunity and sd sweeper. It's all good feel free to ask questions here, or the quick questions quick answers forum
My favorite format is Monotype and I want to make my own team instead of using samples. The thing is I have no idea what sort of thought should go into team building. For example I would like to create a Rock type team. What should I take into consideration when creating the team? Sorry if I shouldn't post this here. If I'm not supposed to please tell me where I should go.
You're best off taking a sample team and making changes as you go to make it your own. Teambuilding is all about putting yourself in a position to win the most games, sample teams and usage should be good learning tools to jumpstart your creativity. Ultimately, you need experience to develop anything on purpose, so its a chicken before the egg problem. If you're below 1300, you should worry more about your play than coming up with the ultimate team. Even if you found some kick butt teams on accident, you wouldn't know it because you suck.
Let's spark some discussion :D. The metagame is to a point where Spectrier-specific counters like: Lum Berry Bisharp, SpD Mandibuzz, and RestTalk Drapion have became a common trend to beat Spectrier based off quality MWP replays. Spectrier is undeniably a centralizing Pokemon in the SS Monotype metagame because of its Ghost-STAB, ability to take advantage of passive walls. Because of its overall stats, Spectrier is able to fulfill quite a few roles in Monotype. Spectrier specifically acting as a defensive sweeper has Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers and defensive walls to boost the damage of Hex. Both Will-O-Wisp and Calm Mind helps its attempts in pulling a Substitute off to avoid status. I feel like we have to separate the terms centralizing and overcentralizing in the metagame. I take centralizing as a very great Pokemon in that specific tier that requires specific counters/checks just to beat it while overcentralizing just being too much. We also have to take into account that just because another tier is suspected something does not it validates as an argument that it should be suspected or is broken in Monotype. Spectrier is after all only available on one type, Ghost, and I and several members do not consider Ghost as a whole as a great type to run at the moment. Let me know your thoughts!
My take on Spectrier is that it's a great Pokemon but the Monotype ruleset restricts it in comparison to OU, much like other Uber Pokemon that are allowed in this tier. Ghost as a type is famous for being an awkward combination of Pokemon with holes left behind in terms of team structure. In SS, the main one that's worth touching up on is the lack of good hazard control. It's incredibly easy to exploit with types like Ice, Steel, Grass, Fairy who soften up Ghost with Spikes and to the point where Spectrier can't sweep consistently mid-late game. Other types usually have natural answers to Spectrier like Infiltrator Dragapult on Dragon, Tapu Fini's Misty Terrain + Swampert's Roar on Water, Galarian Moltres and Mandibuz on Flying; the list goes on and on. It's definitely a very centralizing Pokemon, but the way the metagame has prepared for it and Ghost as a type reflects on its inconsistency and you can see it towards the end of MWP where it ended up having a 37~% winrate by the end of the tournament.
How viable is ice-monotype in this format? What are the most important offensive Pokemon, and are ice-types completely frail? Is it why ice-types are kinda under-looked in the format?
I agree with Perish about Ice being around mid tier. It has a nice set of matchups depending on what you run, but in general Kyurem coupled with Aurora Veil + Spikes support gives you a shot against a majority of types in the metagame. I view Kyurem itself to be a top 5 Pokemon atm just because of how many types it can downright beat or pressure super well with a decent amount of support. Electric, Water, Flying, Steel, Dark, Psychic, Grass, and Poison are all examples of types that struggle with a well played Kyurem; I think it is a very centralizing Pokemon atm and it's the reason why Water teams pretty much always run rain or else they would be too passive in front of Kyurem and types like Flying, Grass, and Poison all get PP stalled. Outside of an incredible Pokemon in Kyurem and an amazing support Pokemon in Alolan Ninetales you have other Pokemon like Galarian Darmanitan, Weavile, Cloyster, and Piloswine which makes it succeed as an offensive type. It's important to keep in mind that Ice does have a terrible defensive typing, so you do have to kind of play carefully with Aurora Veil to circumvent that while falling back on a defensive core, but overall I do think it has a good share of good and even matchups while only really losing to Fire, Bug (irrelevant in tournament play), and Scizor Steel (Rocky Helmet Cloyster and other factors make the Steel matchup doable otherwise).
Following dicussing Ice as a type I would like to bring up Kyurem as a Pokemon in the metagame which I feel many players overlook as something centralizing. Like I said beforehand, Kyurem has the potential to rip through many types easily with a decent amount of support, which both of the types its on can provide. Ice gets Aurora Veil and Spikes, while Dragon has a good set of breakers that support it. Pressure is a disgusting ability when paired with Kyurem's good bulk, and being a strong Freeze Dry user is incredible in Monotype. Pokemon like Celesteela and Galarian Slowking which would otherwise be consistent answers easily get pressure stalled and can no longer break Kyurem's Substitute when moves like Heavy Slam and Sludge Bomb don't have any PP. Not only is Ice by itself a great offensive type especially with Ground coverage, but you have teams completely made out of Water-type Pokemon in this tier, which capitalizes on them efficiently. It's a huge reason as to why Water teams are more inclined to use teams centered around rain rather than more passive defensive teams; and even rain needs Slowking if it doesn't want to lose to Substitute coming up against something passive like Toxapex. It's a Pokemon I'm personally a huge fan of and had my eyes on when building all the time, so I'm curious as to what other people have to say about it.
Hello. I'm writing this because I think cramorant is too broken and should deserve a ban.
After being slept over during the entire gen, he's finally starting to find a solid place in the metagame, becoming a staple to every water and flying team, even nearly becoming the terminator of monotype, a silent assassin with over 250 kills on his count, and the fucking allegory of death and violence.
It invalidates too many types in a similar way that zacian-crowned did at the start of gen 8, you either have a water immunity or you lose (imagine having to play volcanion in fire... I can't live in a world like that) and it also buff water and flying which are completly garbage without him. His numerous sets doesn't make it healthier: specs, scarf, rocky helmet+endure, boots defog, or even suicide lead makes it completly imprevisible and lethal to any unprepared teams that come to his way.
All these reasons makes me think that this mon should be banned from monotype and even go straight up to AG, or even higher ( even if i compared him to it earlier, zacian is an absolute joke next to this monster). Please give the poors arrokudas a rest.
Further down I'll leave you with some calcs and a replay.
252 SpA Cramorant Surf vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 242-288 (111 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO - not like ferro can do anything to cramorant anyways 252 SpA Cramorant Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 444-528 (109.9 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO - 0hko chansey ????? What is this ?????? Mega mewtwo y ??????? 252 SpA Cramorant Surf vs. 240 HP / 252 SpD Eternatus: 228-270 (94.6 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO - eternatus is probably thankful that he's not playable in monotype, otherwise it would probably do a burnout from the offensive pressure of this monstruosity. 252 SpA Cramorant Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Coalossal: 340-408 (80.1 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - f 252 SpA Cramorant Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Appletun200-236 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO - appletun, which I highly considerate like the best cramorant check, gets destroyed after some chips/stealth rocks damage.
I originally posted this in SQSA over a week ago but I'm not getting a response so reposting here.
It's been at least 2 months since the end of MWP. When are we suspecting Lando-I, as said in the announcement a few months ago? It's not like there have been more pressing issues to deal with, so I see no reason why we haven't suspected it by now since MWP has been long over. Do we simply intend not to suspect it? It's not clear what the council thinks on this issue and there have been no updates.
I originally posted this in SQSA over a week ago but I'm not getting a response so reposting here.
It's been at least 2 months since the end of MWP. When are we suspecting Lando-I, as said in the announcement a few months ago? It's not like there have been more pressing issues to deal with, so I see no reason why we haven't suspected it by now since MWP has been long over. Do we simply intend not to suspect it? It's not clear what the council thinks on this issue and there have been no updates.
I'd like to point out that Lando-I is already banned. Here is the anouncement: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/landorus-i-is-now-banned-from-monotype.3674758/. I think you should actually log onto showdown so see the meta and what's banned and what's not. The council did not do a suspect test. They simply banned it based on community feedback.
I'd like to point out that Lando-I is already banned. Here is the anouncement: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/landorus-i-is-now-banned-from-monotype.3674758/. I think you should actually log onto showdown so see the meta and what's banned and what's not. The council did not do a suspect test. They simply banned it based on community feedback.
Due to its power, unpredictability, team support, and restriction of a number of types, the council has decided to ban Landorus-I. Some time after MWP is over we will revisit its ban and likely hold a suspect test.
I originally posted this in SQSA over a week ago but I'm not getting a response so reposting here.
It's been at least 2 months since the end of MWP. When are we suspecting Lando-I, as said in the announcement a few months ago? It's not like there have been more pressing issues to deal with, so I see no reason why we haven't suspected it by now since MWP has been long over. Do we simply intend not to suspect it? It's not clear what the council thinks on this issue and there have been no updates.
I've kept a Lando-I analysis in limbo for about the duration of MWP and several weeks afterwards waiting for a response similar, and have had to scrap it. As far as I've been made aware, the council has no plans to re-suspect Lando-I for the foreseeable future. Maybe later down the road they may choose to revisit it (and more informed people can rebuke this statement), but it seems more unlikely than likely that a re-suspect is in the cards for the foreseeable future.
I originally posted this in SQSA over a week ago but I'm not getting a response so reposting here.
It's been at least 2 months since the end of MWP. When are we suspecting Lando-I, as said in the announcement a few months ago? It's not like there have been more pressing issues to deal with, so I see no reason why we haven't suspected it by now since MWP has been long over. Do we simply intend not to suspect it? It's not clear what the council thinks on this issue and there have been no updates.
The full disclosure on Landorus's situation is that the council voted on whether or not we should suspect it after MWP ended and we ended up not doing it. My personal opinion is that Landorus definitely should have gotten a suspect; I agree with you completely. It was quickbanned after many weeks of competitive play, later than the rest of the quickbans, and up until that point in MWP the games with Ground and Flying had felt competitive. It is 100% something I would have liked to revisit, even in today's metagame it is developed to the point where Landorus wouldn't be as effective as it when it was initially removed from the metagame. Weavile on Dark, Choice Specs Hurricane Zapdos on Electric, Galarian Slowking on Poison, and Steel retains the defensive core which pressures Landorus to the point where it can't break as easily... it makes sense to give the community a chance to express their opinion on something that is so borderline, but I digress. While it was something I personally would have liked to do and felt strongly about, now is not the time for a Landorus suspect anyways, as I feel we should focus on developing the current metagame. There are certain Pokemon like Zapdos, Urshifu, and Dracovish that can possibly be looked into more and we may send out a survey soon or later to get opinions on the overall enjoyment of the metagame. If you have any more questions about Landorus, feel free to pm me or another council member.
252 SpA Cramorant Surf vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 242-288 (111 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO - not like ferro can do anything to cramorant anyways
252 SpA Cramorant Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 444-528 (109.9 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO - 0hko chansey ????? What is this ?????? Mega mewtwo y ???????
252 SpA Cramorant Surf vs. 240 HP / 252 SpD Eternatus: 228-270 (94.6 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO - eternatus is probably thankful that he's not playable in monotype, otherwise it would probably do a burnout from the offensive pressure of this monstruosity.
252 SpA Cramorant Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Coalossal: 340-408 (80.1 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - f
252 SpA Cramorant Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Appletun200-236 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO - appletun, which I highly considerate like the best cramorant check, gets destroyed after some chips/stealth rocks damage.
