Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread

[Rabia]

time for mass noms

-> A
While I still believe Vileplume and Diancie to be incredible options, I find building with them lately to be kind of challenging. The big thing is they open up teams to be much weaker to Silvally-Ground; Vileplume being a Grass-type that doesn't resist Multi-Attack is just really shit, and the defensive structures Diancie used to fit really well into during the Bronzong metagame aren't It nowadays. Both Pokemon can still take over games really effectively, though; Growth Vileplume remains capable of cheesing matchups it has no business succeeding in, while offensive Diancie I still believe is one of the most slept-on Pokemon in SS NU.

-> A-
Snorlax is like Growth Vileplume in that it simply wins many matchups from team preview. As wallbreakers that immediately dispatch it drop in usage, Snorlax finds more games where it's quite effective at just boosting and winning. Additionally, I just really like it as a throw-on special sponge that helps other Pokemon like Duraludon fit into teams; having a panic switch-in to the plethora of special wallbreakers in NU is really good.

-> swap rankings, move Machamp potentially up to A-
I still hate building with both of these wallbreakers because they give so little to a team outside of "strong Pokemon lol!", but it's pretty clear right now Machamp is better. It's much more consistent because it doesn't rely on a (conditional) Choice Band boost for power and isn't phazed by Talonflame's burns at all. Sirfetch'd requires so much specific catering to that it oftentimes just hasn't been worth the team slot.

-> B+/B
Passimian is awkward because it doesn't revenge kill that many foes without telegraphing its play super hard. You're oftentimes locking into an otherwise super weak Rock Slide or just spamming U-turn all game, which, while not ineffective at gaining momentum, isn't a huge net gain. Rotom-C remains the best Choice Scarf Pokemon available, and we're not strapped for generally fast Pokemon either, between Aerodactyl, Talonflame, Salazzle, and more.

-> B/B+
Meanwhile, I feel Indeedee-F is a good bit better now. The drop in Dark-type usage makes Expanding Force a bit easier to clean with late-game because you're now just trying to get the opposing Copperajah or Escavalier low enough to 2HKO, and Healing Wish synergizes super nicely with many of our wallbreakers that have late-game potential (Silvally-Ground and Salazzle come to mind). Compared to the other revenge killers, it's really consistent at picking off some of the generic fast sweepers because of its super strong and accurate STAB move.

-> A-
Mudsdale is still super common, but Silvally-Ground picking up use leads to more teams that are vulnerable to Dragon Dance Tyrantrum. In specific, I really enjoy how Lum Berry variants can exploit the high Talonflame usage to safely set up and sweep. It often only takes removing the Fairy-type on the opposing team and weakening a potential Mudsdale to sweep late with Outrage. Not a lot said here, but yeah raise the T-rex.

-> B+
I've been a proponent of Aerodactyl usage for awhile. It definitely hates Mudsdale being everywhere and even struggles with Silvally-Ground when running utility sets, but its ability to contain many of NU's fast Pokemon---in specific Talonflame and Salazzle---is quite nice.

-> A-
Maybe? It's one of few viable entry hazard removers and has a really deep movepool, which lets you tailor it to your team pretty nicely. Beyond Power Whip and Rapid Spin, you basically have your choice of two between Knock Off, U-turn, Synthesis, Aromatherapy, and Triple Axel. Cool Pokemon.

-> idk where but drop it
It's awkward as hell to build with and hasn't done anything in a meaningful game since Bronzong left lol

 

[Segetarius]

It's nomming season again boys so let's get some stuff in this here thread!

B- -> B+/A-
Aerodactyl is finally in a spot where it can really shine on teams. Yes, the Ground types, especially Mudsdale, are irritating, but there are some huge upsides for teams building with Aero. The reason that I first started using it was based on an old theory I and others had back in the day that running Aero makes building teams that are otherwise demolished by Salazzle much less stressed in that matchup, as Aero is basically the most perfect offensive check to that mon in the tier. The value of this defensive utility is not to be scoffed at, it's relevant enough to justify it being brought as a SpDef option in the tournament scene (see zS's post in the team dump thread), though it still checks Lazzle without any investment. Anyways, Aero has just enough flexibility between the cleaning sets and utility sets to make use of its movepool. While it's tough to pass up on Edgequake + Roost on any set, there are also legitimate options like Rocks for utility sets, the choice of Hone Claws or Dragon Dance for cleaning sets, as well as niche moves like Aqua Tail and Dual Wingbeat. There's even an argument to be made for Boots on cleaning sets, though giving up on the power boost of Life Orb can make things difficult. For the LO cleaning sets in particular, its kinda crazy how many cores just drop after a boost and minimal chip. In short, play Aero it's good and deserves a rise to reflect its much better spot in the meta.

-Small UR -> C
It has come time to nom something not currently on the VR. When I first started using Gourg, I chose it on the basis of it being a Grass type faster than Groundvally, and not much else. However, after extensive playtesting and many iterations of teams, I've really come to like what Gourg brings to the table. Yes, it checks Groundvally, which is of course valuable in a meta where there's an argument to be made that that mon is banworthy, but it does a decent amount more. I've been running the old set of Life Orb with Dual STAB/Synthesis/Will-o-Wisp (although there are arguments for Shadow Sneak, Fire Blast, and Rock Slide in the last slot) and have found that it does a decent amount of things with good play. It's surprising how many mons in the tier it still 2HKOs with an unimpressive 85Atk just based on the power of its STABS. In addition to OHKOing Groundvally, it acts as a Mowtom check for any given team you have it on, where its speed is especially nice for non-Scarf sets. It also acts as a fine spinblocker against Tsareena as long as you don't switch into a Triple Axel, since once you're in you can burn it and tank Axel. Obviously, it's not the strongest thing, but the bulk and more importantly, the Speed that Gourg-s has gives it a legitimate, albeit small niche in the tier. The niche is recognizable, even seeing sporadic tournament play.

-Steel C -> C+
Look, I can already hear the guffaws of everyone after they see that this is not, in fact, talking about Groundvally, but hear me out. Steelvally has always had 2 things differentiating it from the other Steels, Defog and Speed. Now, the first of those traits isn't the greatest thing, as you don't matchup super well against most of the Rock setters and when you do get in, it can be a bit of a momentum suck. However, the Speed is very relevant, as being able to safely use a switch move against slower breakers that specialize at tearing apart the other Steels is nice. So, what's different about Steelvally now? In a word, flexibility. I've said this before, but you get a lot of flexibility in Steelvally's spread, as once you slap 252HP on, you can choose your speed benchmark and then do whatever you want to with the remaining EVs. However, what's really opened up is Steelvally's movepool. In the teams I've used, I can honestly say I have used all of Defog/Multi/Twave/Toxic/U-turn/Parting Shot/Flamethrower/Rock Slide/Surf, with varying reasons and levels of success. Personally, I feel that after the pre-requisite Defog/Multi, Parting Shot is the better switch move so as not to be punished by Flame Body/Effect Spore. As for the last slot, look at your team and see what it needs. I know there was one person who ran Rock Slide Steelvally with particular Atk investment to deal with Tflame in NUSD, but if you'd rather just have a way to hit opposing Steels (and Vileplume), there's always Flamethrower. Need a safe way to punish non-Steel switches, Toxic, and so on with a vast movepool to pick from. Being able to customize Steelvally for whatever you need puts it a step above the other C ranks in my mind, as every other mon labeled as such either only does one thing relevant or are strictly worse versions of another mon. Steelvally's unique designation as the fast Defogging Steel as well as its flexibility exclude it from this category. Please, I'm not asking a lot, just a small rise.

Anyways, here's a few replays featuring all of these noms, some awful play on my part, and in hindsight a not great build. For those of you curious the latest iteration of the team is Untitled 44 (pokepast.es) and is still super weak to Decid.
[Gen 8] NU replay: Segetarius vs. Yahoo12 - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
[Gen 8] NU replay: Ho3nConfirm3d vs. Segetarius - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)

That's all I got, if you read all of this, thanks. Happy posting!

 

[alkazoth]

B --> B+ or A-

Here's the set I've been running:
@ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split

I've ran into lots of groundvallys while laddering, and noticed that talon isn't a viable check since it can't switch into Rock Slide. Weezing, however, can serve the role of physical deterrent with a ground immunity while also not fearing rock coverage, and unlike mowtom, is a viable levitate mon who doesn't fear flame charge. It also has the added benefit of tspikes, which I have found to be a great way to force progress on the opp and limit switch ins from a mon as passive as Weez. It also checks a host of other physical attackers like escavalier, drapion, copperajah, sirfetch'd, doublade, mudsdale, tauros, guzzlord, toxicroak, tyrantrum, and probably more I forgot to name. I have pain split so Weez has extended longevity throughout the match, and can use it to bring high HP mons like vaporeon, snorlax, and jah down to about half while healing Weez by a great amount. You could probably run flame > sbomb to hit steels, but I prefer sbomb in order to get the poison on boots mons and wisp already cripples steels enough. You could run black sludge > helmet for increased longevity, but I really enjoy using Weez to punish contact attackers, of which there are many. I've been seeing lots of people complain that groundvally is low-key broken, which baffles me to no end, because Weez here stops it dead in its tracks unless it starts running psyfangs (which really dampens every other mu it has, so I don't recommend it, it NEEDS those 4 moves). It has the defensive utility of being a poison plus the added benefit of having a ground immunity and can even make steels have second thoughts about switching in to it, which I think is extremely valuable in this metagame, seeing as the only other poison who can somewhat stomach ground attacks is vileplume, who takes them neutrally. I think groundvally's looking broken due to NU's overreliance on talon as a team's only ground immune, try Weezing and you won't have as many groundvally problems. Underrated presence in the metagame, highly recommend you guys to try it out and see for yourselves.

Another quick nom:
C+ --> somewhere higher idk where to put it
I have loved using Togedemaru lately, especially its spdef set, because it can wishpass. Sure, vape can wishpass and its higher HP means it'll restore more health, so why Maru? The answer is simple: Mowtom counter. Vape crumbles at the sight of mowtom, but Maru laughs at the sight of mowtom. Being able to counter a mon as metagame defining as mowtom while also having other good mus and being able to heavily support its team is worthy of it to be higher than the C ranks. This is a much more controversial nom, so lemme know if I'm missing stuff since I suck at NU.

 

[Expulso]

I think groundvally's looking broken due to NU's overreliance on talon as a team's only ground immune, try Weezing and you won't have as many groundvally problems. Underrated presence in the metagame, highly recommend you guys to try it out and see for yourselves.

for the record it isn’t just as simple as use weezing on everything. weezing is, as you said, a very good physical wall — totally agree. however, its passiveness means that it’s a super easy opening for a ton of threatening special attackers: exploud, indeedee-f, dragalge, and salazzle can all get free turns against it, the latter two by switching in and the former two with groundvally’s u-turn. bronzong’s departure makes the former two very hard to check, so adding weezing to your team usually adds a sizable weakness to special breakers.

It isn’t impossible to make up for this but it is definitely worth noting. (One other drawback is that the very popular Xatu shuts down tspikes very hard). I’d probably put Weezing in B+ or B — usually would say B but Groundvally checks are so in-demand right now that B+ is understandable.

 

[Vict0ry_]

—>A
I know it was already lowered but it should be lowered just a little bit more. It can’t survive Blastoise’s Surf or Hydro Pump after Shell Smash, has a chance to be OHKO by Life Orb Starmie’s Hydro Pump, takes a lot of damage from Tsareena’s Power Whip, can be OHKO by Steelvally’s Multi-Attack it can also be OHKO by Rotom-C and is guaranteed OHKO by Choice Specs Decidyueye. The only arguments for it not to be lowered further than A is that it has a chance to OHKO Sirfetch’d and Passimian without taking much damage from them. And also walls out Machamp well, dealing a lot of damage to it. It also walls out and guaranteed OHKOs Talonflame.

—>Somewhere higher
It has a chance to OHKO Decidyueye and Vaporeon, Deals good damage to Passimian, guaranteed OHKOs Starmie and Blastoise it checks Rotom-C and Mudstale. It also is an excellent Rapid Spin User who can use it to chip at foes like Mudsdale who it can‘t OHKO to kill later whilst removing entry hazards. It also checks Uxie, Mudsdale and Diancie who are all fairly popular stealth rock setters.

—> B+/B
It has a few problems. lt is not able to kill Diancie, Vaporeon, Sylveon and Mudsdale. And it is checked by Blastoise after a Shell Smash, Starmie, Sylveon, Diancie, Choice Band Aerodactyl and Toxicroak after a swords dance. Rotom-C is still the best Choice Scarf option and Machamp and Decidyueye are currently better physical wallbreakers. It also often choice locks into weak coverage moves that prevent STAB Close Combat or U-turn for gaining momentum.

 

[Nish the Great]

View attachment 413747—>A
I know it was already lowered but it should be lowered just a little bit more. It can’t survive Blastoise’s Surf or Hydro Pump after Shell Smash, has a chance to be OHKO by Life Orb Starmie’s Hydro Pump, takes a lot of damage from Tsareena’s Power Whip, can be OHKO by Steelvally’s Multi-Attack it can also be OHKO by Rotom-C and is guaranteed OHKO by Choice Specs Decidyueye. The only arguments for it not to be lowered further than A is that it has a chance to OHKO Sirfetch’d and Passimian without taking much damage from them. And also walls out Machamp well, dealing a lot of damage to it. It also walls out and guaranteed OHKOs Talonflame.

View attachment 413749—>Somewhere higher
It has a chance to OHKO Decidyueye and Vaporeon, Deals good damage to Passimian, guaranteed OHKOs Starmie and Blastoise it checks Rotom-C and Mudstale. It also is an excellent Rapid Spin User who can use it to chip at foes like Mudsdale who it can‘t OHKO to kill later whilst removing entry hazards. It also checks Uxie, Mudsdale and Diancie who are all fairly popular stealth rock setters.

View attachment 413751—> B+/B
It has a few problems. lt is not able to kill Diancie, Vaporeon, Sylveon and Mudsdale. And it is checked by Blastoise after a Shell Smash, Starmie, Sylveon, Diancie, Choice Band Aerodactyl and Toxicroak after a swords dance. Rotom-C is still the best Choice Scarf option and Machamp and Decidyueye are currently better physical wallbreakers. It also often choice locks into weak coverage moves that prevent STAB Close Combat or U-turn for gaining momentum.

I think you misunderstand the point of diancie because if you’re trying to use it to ohko opponents or use it to fight pokemon it has a type weakness to, you’re using it wrong. Diancie (I’m talking about the defensive sets here) should primarily be used to stop Pokémon it checks like exploud, Salazzle, and offensive talonflame while setting rocks. Attacking is usually an afterthought since rock of fairy weak Pokémon will switch out unless they know they can ohko you.

 

[Vict0ry_]

I think you misunderstand the point of diancie because if you’re trying to use it to ohko opponents or use it to fight pokemon it has a type weakness to, you’re using it wrong. Diancie (I’m talking about the defensive sets here) should primarily be used to stop Pokémon it checks like exploud, Salazzle, and offensive talonflame while setting rocks. Attacking is usually an afterthought since rock of fairy weak Pokémon will switch out unless they know they can ohko you.

But Diancie has to switch out every time one of the Pokemon I mention before switches in, giving it enough time to set up stealth rock and do little the rest of the game, needing to switch out constantly also makes your team weak to entry hazards. It also has poor matchup against Tsareena and Starmie who are NU‘s main Rapid spin users who can switch into Diancie, kill it and then get rid of stealth rock.

 

[Kiyo]

But Diancie has to switch out every time one of the Pokemon I mention before switches in, giving it enough time to set up stealth rock and do little the rest of the game, needing to switch out constantly also makes your team weak to entry hazards. It also has poor matchup against Tsareena and Starmie who are NU‘s main Rapid spin users who can switch into Diancie, kill it and then get rid of stealth rock.

But one of the Pokémon you mentioned has to switch in before you can force Diancie to switch out, therefore it does have time to set up stealth rock and do little the rest of the game. and this all hinges on the idea of you being a switcher in the first place, which clearly sir you are not as “needing to switch out constantly makes your team weak to entry hazards”

 

[BolTingBlazie]

I would like to see Inteleon drop to C, because its just not good in this current meta when we have far better sweepers, as well as bulky waters in Blastoise and Vaporeon, Vaporeon completely walling it, and Blastoise is just a better sweeper since shell smash and superior coverage, as well as higher bulk overall just makes it a completely better choice. Even in the Hyper Offense department, Starmie is a far better choice since it has far more coverage, better setup options, and rapid spin to boot, and quite simply starmie just does inteleon's job better. Base 65 bulk is also really bad in this meta where we have stuff like priority packing pokemon that hit like a truck, as well as potent revenge killers all over the tier. I guess I could see a glimmer of viability with specs on rain teams, and yeah it has more coverage than Kingdra, but rain requires a lot of setup and is a very specific team style that isn't the best right now so. Inteleon really only fits on very specific teams that need a fast pokemon that hits hard in the rain, which limits its usage to about as much as Kingdra's, because there are simply just better water types that do not get crippled by priority moves and have far better traits in this metagame, I just wish people would stop using Inteleon so it would drop to PU, because for such a very inconsistent pokemon with such a small but good niche in rain (Which probably isn't even that good in NU...), I see it a tad too much...

 

[Stories]

I would like to see Inteleon drop to C, because its just not good in this current meta when we have far better sweepers, as well as bulky waters in Blastoise and Vaporeon, Vaporeon completely walling it, and Blastoise is just a better sweeper since shell smash and superior coverage, as well as higher bulk overall just makes it a completely better choice. Even in the Hyper Offense department, Starmie is a far better choice since it has far more coverage, better setup options, and rapid spin to boot, and quite simply starmie just does inteleon's job better. Base 65 bulk is also really bad in this meta where we have stuff like priority packing pokemon that hit like a truck, as well as potent revenge killers all over the tier. I guess I could see a glimmer of viability with specs on rain teams, and yeah it has more coverage than Kingdra, but rain requires a lot of setup and is a very specific team style that isn't the best right now so. Inteleon really only fits on very specific teams that need a fast pokemon that hits hard in the rain, which limits its usage to about as much as Kingdra's, because there are simply just better water types that do not get crippled by priority moves and have far better traits in this metagame, I just wish people would stop using Inteleon so it would drop to PU, because for such a very inconsistent pokemon with such a small but good niche in rain (Which probably isn't even that good in NU...), I see it a tad too much...

Inteleon has many things going for it that set it apart from all the other Water-types you listed. First you mention it is walled by Vaporeon. While this is true, this also applies to every other Water. At least Inteleon can U-Turn against Vaporeon into a more favorable matchup. Inteleon also packs far more raw power and speed than most other Pokemon in the tier, not just Water-types. Blastoise is better than Inteleon, but they’re not comparable in their roles; one is a breaker and one is a sweeper. That’s like comparing Mantine to Blastoise offensively. I think Inteleon is a very deadly Pokemon whenever it loads up against a team lacking Vaporeon or Mantine and even in those matchups it can still provide its team momentum.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Inteleon has many things going for it that set it apart from all the other Water-types you listed. First you mention it is walled by Vaporeon. While this is true, this also applies to every other Water. At least Inteleon can U-Turn against Vaporeon into a more favorable matchup. Inteleon also packs far more raw power and speed than most other Pokemon in the tier, not just Water-types. Blastoise is better than Inteleon, but they’re not comparable in their roles; one is a breaker and one is a sweeper. That’s like comparing Mantine to Blastoise offensively. I think Inteleon is a very deadly Pokemon whenever it loads up against a team lacking Vaporeon or Mantine and even in those matchups it can still provide its team momentum.

I guess you have a point there, but it needs a lot of support to function compared to say starmie. Maybe I am just salty it won't drop to PU, since it probably should...

 

[Meri Berry]

Tiering Update:
Sheet found here. I do want to note that we've talked about removing S- after Rotom-Mow would've dropped to be the sole S- on this slate despite 6/9 people voting to keep it at S (Togkey changed his vote since). If you'd like, you can think of Rotom-Mow as the 4th best S rank, but most of us didn't really see the merit in confining it in its own subrank. Also, we have again replaced 2 people with rotating VR members, poh and roxiee for Expulso and Ninja! Sorry that I'm so late on these, feel free to DM me if you have any questions.

Rises and Drops

Rises:
S- -> S

S- -> S
B+ -> A-
B -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B+
B- -> B+

UR -> C

Drops:
A+ -> A
A+ -> A
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A- -> B+
A- -> C
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C -> UR
C -> UR

Rises and Drops with Reasoning

Rises:
S- -> S: Copperajah has become a really crucial part on teams again, often applying heavy offensive pressure to the entirety of an opponent's team and supporting both Ground-types in the tier very well by covering their checks. Stealth Rocks sets have also risen in popularity and aren't half bad.

S- -> S: Talk of the town, this guy just U-Turns on its checks and can pressure most of the tier with its STAB + Rock Slide. It allows teams to make their defensive cores considerably faster without losing too much of the bulk that a Ground-type in the tier needs, while also being immune to Trick and resistant to Knock Off.
B+ -> A-: Curse sets are incredibly potent in the tier right now, as teams without a Fighting-type can struggle to break through it, and it can often win games by itself. Unfortunately, it is still not powerful at +0, and Fighting-types make its life hell (especially Sirfetch'd).
B -> A-: Machamp has become an absolute menace recently, often supported by Indeedee-F and breaking most traditional balance cores with ease. With Close Combat, Facade, Heavy Slam, and Knock Off, it has near perfect coverage for the tier, and can't be crippled by Talonflame.
B -> B+: Dhelmise is one of the best checks to Silvally-Ground as it is neutral to U-Turn, it gives a team a solid water resist, and its STAB combination is almost impossible to wall barring Itemless Grass-types. What's not to like?
B -> B+: Quagsire deals with most of the tier's set-up sweepers, such as Silvally-Ground, Blastoise, Salazzle, and Tyrantrum, as well as posing as a check to Pokemon such as Diancie and Guzzlord. The main issue with it is the lack of Stealth Rocks, as well as its passivity, but it is great glue for a lot of teams with defensive holes.
B -> B+: Silvally-Ground makes this Pokemon a lot more appealing, having Levitate as well as a really high Defense stat with a typing that resists U-Turn. Toxic Spikes aren't that good right now, but Will-O-Wisp still applies a lot of pressure to teams and can make certain structures struggle.
B- -> B+: A breaker that has slowly risen in popularity since Bronzong left the tier, able to slowly chip away at its checks and get into positions where it can sweep. It has the utility to set up Stealth Rocks or use Substitute + Toxic as well, but its main niche is checking and being faster than Talonflame as a physical breaker if we're honest.
B- -> B+: One of the best Choice Scarf users in the current metagame, thanks to its powerful STAB move in Expanding Force and utility moves such as Trick and Healing Wish. The meta has struggled to find good speed control, and this Pokemon fits perfectly into bulky offense builds to pair with other powerful breakers.

UR -> C: Another speed control option with Choice Scarf, but also allowing for Will-O-Wisp sets to cripple checks and Life Orb to apply breaking pressure in the same way as Dhelmise but faster.

Drops:
A+ -> A: Diancie has been a topic of debate among the community, often being called really bad or still very good or whatever you'd like. We can all agree that it still sets Stealth Rocks very well, has good utility in Heal Bell, and can often be a menace into unprepared teams after a Defense boost. But its quite inconsistent and hard to run in the current metagame, giving your team another Ground-type weakness and getting heavily chipped over the course of a game.
A+ -> A: Still a good Pokemon, but overshadowed in large part by the fact that Copperajah is so good and its offensive pressure is a lot lower, even with Swords Dance sets, due to the lack of coverage.
A+ -> A: Vileplume is a Pokemon that always functions pretty well when people decide to use it, but its hard to fit on teams because its a Grass-type that's neutral to Ground, and it also just doesn't fit very cleanly onto balance structures.
A -> A-: Starmie isn't as good offensively right now, often struggling to break past defensive cores with the rise of defensive Grass-types and Copperajah. Rapid Spin sets are getting a bit better now, but those sets were never A-rank in the first place.
A- -> B+: Passimian has a lot more competition for the Choice Scarf role and also the Fighting-type role, which is a bit rough for our coconut wielding friend.
A- -> C: I don't understand why Togkey nominated this piece of shit Pokemon to A rank. Offensive sets are hard walled by Pokemon such as Vaporeon and Mantine, and are soft walled by Copperajah, Escavalier, Dhelmise, Eldegoss, Dragalge, Guzzlord, Toxicroak, Araquanid, etc. Even Machamp lives a +2 hit, that's pathetic. Defensive sets are much better, but without Refresh, it has very little longevity even with Rapid Spin + Flip Turn making it decent role compression. This Pokemon is garbage.
B+ -> B: Drapion struggles into a meta that is run by Ground-type checks such as Silvally-Ground and Mudsdale, and lacks the power to sweep even when they're gone.
B+ -> B: Heliolisk has fallen out of favour, likely because its power level isn't that strong for a Choice Scarf user, and as a Choice Specs user it can be scouted by Vaporeon and addressed accordingly.
B -> B-: This thing is just inconsistent and bad into the metagame. It struggles a lot to get opportunities to get in and set up, it has an awkward speed tier as a breaker, and it just doesn't see much use anymore.
B -> B-: Spikes haven't been used as much lately, and Froslass hasn't really proven itself to fit onto balance builds very well.
B -> B-: A breaker that was probably a bit over-inflated in the first place. The meta trends are alright for it, with AV Copperajah not being a great check to it with Hail chip, but it just isn't that good.
B- -> C+: This Pokemon hasn't been good ever, and its dropping because it offers very little defensive utility that you expect from a Steel-type. It also struggles to break through common cores, going between breaking Mudsdale, Talonflame, Vaporeon, and killing faster threats. 4 moves isn't enough for these blades.
C+ -> C: Just hasn't seen a lot of usage, everyone recognizes it has potential but its really just a niche breaker and nothing more.
C+ -> C: A lot of the reason for using it has faded away, with most powerful physical attackers running Knock Off now, though it still has a minor niche in being a defensive tank with Knock Off and Sleep Powder. Tsareena offers a lot of what Tangela does, but with Rapid Spin as well.
C -> UR: It just hasn't seen use since Bronzong left, its not that good at doing its SubSeed stuff anymore.
C -> UR: We dropped Blastoise to C and this is just a dogshit version of Blastoise what do you expect

 

[Minimizing]

My nominations for the April Tier Based Usage up
New Drops result in a new meta But for now I am nominating some underrated mons

UR -> C Noctow's niche is from its ability tinted lens with its great defensive typing and special bulk. Noctowl is immune to golurk's stab and is immune to the other ghost types in the tier. It also resists Decidueye's and dhelmise's typing while speed tying/out speedin them with its incredible base 70 speed stat. Its natural special bulk allows noctowl to nasty plot on walls such as vaporeon and start a path of destruction on defensive cores.

B+ ->S- Weezing is amazing defensively because of its ability levitate and absolutely dunks on silvally ground which is quite beneficial. Is part of my favorite core WeezLord as they have a resistance to almost every type. Since Silvally ground is S tier that means weezing is just as good as sivally ground is so it must be at least S tier itself.

UR -> B Bouffalant is probably the most underrated mon in the team right now. It has a considerable amount of special bulk and wall breaking ability because of its ability sap sipper. This makes it one of the few offensive mons that can switch in on vileplume sleep powder/giga drain and punish the opposing team hard in return. Sub swords dance is the best set easily blocking attacks with invested bulk and stopping nasty status such as will o wisp/toxic. You can also run soundproof to troll anyone trying to utilize exploud/sylveon.

B+ -> D- Some ignorant people may say that Lickilicky is completely useless and is a worse wishpasser than audino and a worse curse user than snorlax. Well it has a devastating niche in block which can allow lickilicky to set up curse to max boosts and remove an annoying wall from the other team such as vaporeon/sylveon. You may be saying snorlax has block too and is a million times better but what you dont mention is that lickilicky has the ability Oblivious making it an unstoppable force which no one can counter.

UR -> C Anyone who has faced turtledoggo can attest to this things majesty.

-> S Fastest dark type in the tier? Check Strongest dark type in the tier? Check Literally has the ability to be another pokemon whiich NO ONE has ever expected before. Leading it off first turn and clicking nasty plot will give the best results. Super underrated I feel as if the council is biased in not allowing Zoroark to get the respect it deserves

:

C+-> A Better than talonflame and also has intimidate plus teleport. Dont forget to mention the legendary wall breaking lifeorb set which has no counters currently in the meta

B-> A+ Has a long neck asserts the players dominance. Note: is funny

UR ->B- The amount of times i have swept an opponent including top players with sub belly drum poliwrath can not be understated. The greatest sweeper in the tier Blastoise is jealous of its superiority.

UR -> A+ sick mon use it over dhelmise/decidueye as they offer absolutely nothing over gourgeist.

-> SS The ultimate sweeper #RespectGreedent

UR -> B Three words; Choice Band Hustle. The true cultured pick of the NU tier choice band flapple is absolutely devestating to anything that tries to stand in its path.It has +1 priority grassy glide allowing it to outspeed and devastate the competition. Even copperajah is 2hko by the might of flapple grassy glide. If you are worried about missing moves with flapple just use hone claw flapple.



Hope you like my picks for the underdogs of the NU tier I feel as if all of these mons are disrespected by the current player base. Mods can delete this or I will delete this later. Happy April Fools

 

[BT89]

UR -> A-

Pikachu is an utterly fantastic breaker because I said so. Light Ball boosts its already amazing attacking stats to unprecedented levels, therefore it is good and one of the best Pokemons.



A- -> C+

IDK, my Choice Specs Snorlax hasn't been putting in any work lately? People are telling me that it is a shit set and a waste of a good Pokemon, but in reality, it's just Snorlax that is bad. I have no faults as a player.



UR -> S

Comfey swept me once, so it has to be good right? CM + Synthesis + Draining Kiss absolutely murders pretty much every team in the metagame.

 

[Fish Gaming]

here before someone takes my noms
UR > S+

That one set it has with Sandstorm and Endeavor at lvl 1 is op pls ban

UR > A

No, but for real, its the bulkiest wishporter defense wise

:goodra: NUBL > C-

omg it got killed by a super effective move once ban ice type!!!1111

 

[Phantomistix]

if there was a VR for funny users all of the above three posters would be unranked. incredibly boring material guys, try harder

termi -> D+
at least they did smth

 

[KingOfTheZoogers]

Something about that Blastoice drop doesn't seem completely accurate.

Like move him to B+ or B but C tier seems way too harsh.

He is meant to be a late game sweeper, teams that would use him such as Hyper Offense and Offense would probably have other pokemon kill Vaporeon and Mantine or weaken those soft walls.

As well sometimes you don't have the tools to simply wall a Blastoice.

And who is using defensive rapid spin, refresh Blastoice?

 

[Stories]

Something about that Blastoice drop doesn't seem completely accurate.

Like move him to B+ or B but C tier seems way too harsh.

He is meant to be a late game sweeper, teams that would use him such as Hyper Offense and Offense would probably have other pokemon kill Vaporeon and Mantine or weaken those soft walls.

As well sometimes you don't have the tools to simply wall a Blastoice.

And who is using defensive rapid spin, refresh Blastoice?

 

[KingOfTheZoogers]

View attachment 417157

Go ahead and tell me, also nice reference

 

[Stories]

Go ahead and tell me, also nice reference

hi

 

[KingOfTheZoogers]

Ah I see, thats what I thought it was but I forgot it was on Friday.

 

[zS]

hi everyone, i'm back for a few noms as league comes to a near end and my opinions on the metagame shifted quite a lot so i'm here to give a few thoughts on what i think the VR should look like in my opinion.

from S to S-/A+
i think most of us are on the same page for this one as it is clear that talonflame has fallen off a little from his top 1 mon spot and i think it's not on the same level as the other s ranks except one more i'm going to get a brief talk on later in the post. It is still a great pokemon don't get me wrong, but i think this meta is where it "struggles" the most to shine and it feels a lot less splashable to me than it used to be.
(ground) from S to S-/A+
i think this might be a case of most people not agreeing on what a s rank is meant to be.sivlally is rly rly good, it has reached the point where it became the "benchmark" speedtier as i like to call it of the tier, meaning that any pokemon faster than it will be considered fast in the meta. however, i don't find it to be as easy to slap on teams as the other s ranks, and sometimes it kinda struggles to pull its weight in battle. add that to the fact that mudsdale is on the rise af (which is my next nom) and i think this should drop from a rank or two.
from A+ to S
this feels so obvious to me and i would like to think it also is for a lot of people. this pokemon is just straight up amazing and it is probably the most splashable mon in the tier as of right now. it is so easy to use and never disappoints ingame (unless it gets randomly crit or misses toxic but i'm not here to talk about these cases fwiw). it beats so many mons in the tier handily, can be paired with almost anything and everything, fits on every single playstyle baring hyper offense and is also a really underrated and capable breaker. all in all i think this is probably the second best mon in the tier rn, and i think that the mons that dropped only made it better.
from B+ to A-
this mon is growing stronger and stronger as the metagame develops and in my opinion has almost became a staple in a lot of builds. it's potent at breaking, a good cleaner and also checks a good portion of the biggest threats in the metagame like salazzle. cb sets are incredible, i've also been a huge fan of dd recently, it's a good rocker that beats talonflame (and is also part of the reasons why i think tflame should drop tbh).
from B- to B+
that's a pretty big jump for what i consider to be one of the better breakers in the tier rn. eggy's just so good, tp sitrus deals a fuckton of damage while beating handily a lot of the best defensive cores in the tier. it does struggle a bit against sylveon but when you're facing a sylv it's usually the only potent answer to it so pivoting around it is super easy with teleport. it also has good defensive utility being able to soft check our poltergeisters under some circumstances, a good mon that is super underrated.
from B to B+/A-
ok look, i rly think it's a crime ladder hasn't made this thing rise yet and has made hitmontop jump from pu instead? this mon is insane, ebelt press fucks a ton of mons and there are no real reliable answers. it's actually quite speedy for a breaker of this caliber but it does lack bulk which makes it hard to randomly slap on teams and call it a day. still i do think this mon deserves a rise as it is one of the better breakers rn.
from B+ to B
i honestly don't think rhydon's that good anymore but it still has a good niche. it feels rly hard to use and requires a lot of support, and on top of that i find it to be significantly worse than any mon in the B+ tier rn including the rises i just mentionned.
from A- to B+/B
i've never grown to be an exploud fan and i rly think it's not so good. it is a scary breaker, but it's slow and easy to play around and most well enough build teams will not have a hard time at all dealing with it. it also really hard to build around and doesn't have any attribuit that gives it the upper hand above indeedee or even tauros.
from B+ to A-/A
now listen. this mons just getting better and better every single day that passes, it has a good speedtier and does a fuckton of damage while having valuable defensive utility and a nice bulk that means it will almost always take a non super effective hit from full heatlh. it also is one of the best scarfers in the tier rn if not the second best right after mowtom. i think this mon is better than all the B+ and A- mons but i find it to be a little inconsistent compared to the A mons we have right now, so i guess i'm fine with either of these.
from C+ to B
underrated, unexplored and rat are the 3 best ways to describe this pokemon. it's faster by 1 pt than the tier's threshold and is the best mowtom check the tier has to offer. sub toxic also goes crazy with mudsdale being on the rise and i think this deserves a lot more exloration than it currently has. it has access to a fuckton of support moves and it's also togederachi which means that no game is over until togedemaru's dead.
(steel) from C to C+/B-
ok i know silvally is not that great and is hard to use without wish support, but this mon's lowkey better than what people give it credit for. it offers invaluable support, great role compression and is also a steel that can pivot out with both parting shot and u-turn. i think it's underrated and that it should get a small rise, it deserves it.
from B to B-
this mon is bad, i don't get why it's still here honestly. it's hard to slap on teams, struggles to get past the mon it's supposed to counter (hi vaporeon) and only serves as a stoise revenge killer. honestly if this dropped to UR i wouldn't even be concerned but i think that'd be unfair so yeah here it is.
from UR to C
as crazy as it may sound, i think manectric is pretty decent in the tier rn. with rotom-c being such a staple electric immunities are invaluable, and electric types with fire coverage also are. i've been messing around with protox mane in recent weeks and it felt rly nice. (if you don't trust me, here's a team so you can try it out yourself)
as for the new mons, i didn't play much with them but rn i'd have stak in A and grimm in B+/A- probably, i think this is a good place for them rn.

and that's it i think? i may have forgotten a few but i went through a lot '-'. it would be nice to see some discussion on this thread other than some lickilicky/aron fanbased rankings. anyway i've done my job, i'm out for now if you have any questions or any points you'd like to discuss, quote this post or hit me up on discord and i'd love to discuss it further with y'all!

 

[Lucario]

Hello, it's ya boy, Lord Anti-Rabia back with another vr thingy.

A+ --> S/S-
This fat horse has been an NU staple all gen and has always been great. In current NU it is one of our only (defensive) Ground-types and is a great physical wall as well. With Stakataka and Grimmsnarl recently dropping, Muds acts as a great answer to both of them. Running Protect as its 4th move allows it to soft-check its biggest counter, John Deere Lawn Tractor 100 Series. 17.5-24 hp*; 42-, 48-, 54-inch Edge™ mower decks · 2 year/120 hour bumper-to-bumper warranty. It's a fairly splashable Pokemon as well, especially on balance. Muds is also arguably the best Rock setter in the tier with Stakataka and Copperajah being second, however, horse beats them both. Horse also likes the decrease of viability of Sirfetch'd who can crit through its horse like body made of earth. All in all, this thing deserved S tier s long time ago, but deserves it now more than ever.

A --> A+
Idk why the ripoff Among Us plant isn't already A+. It's one of the best checks to Groundvally while also being a great check to both new drops. There isn't much else to say about other than big strong physical attackers don't like the poisonous plant.

NEW --> A/A+
Staka is cool. It's a rocker that beats Xatu and is a Steel type, so it's automatically at least A-. It checks a lot of the special breakers like Indeedee and Exploud who can't seem to focus a blast. It checks some physical breakers, although it does not like the fighting or ground types, which is enough for A and not A+ imo. It can also function as a Trick Room sweeper or just a sweeper, which it excels at with a STAB move that is almost always 150 BP and a strong Stone Edge.

I suck at explaining stuff, so here's a few smaller noms.
A+ --> A Xatu just isn't Xatu enough anymore :/
A --> A-
B --> B+
B+ --> A-
C+ --> B-
B+ --> A-
A --> A+

I haven't messed around much with Grimmsnarl yet to accurately nom it, but from what I've seen, it would be anywhere from B to A-.

 

[Rabia]

Machamp is A- btw already Op just isnt updated

 

[BolTingBlazie]

I have a couple noms:
Sirfetch'd to A-: With the rise of fatter walls like Snorlax and Staka that love to set up via beast boost or curse, leek sets are gonna be a lot better since Snorlax and Stakataka do not wanna take a crit close combat, and Sirfetch'd by extension because of the leek is going to have the easiest time breaking through these fat walls out of all of the fighting types. Sirfetch'd completely shuts down Snorlax and Stakataka after setting up with crits so that may be enough to nom it to A-. Not to mention the rise of mudsdale being very beneficial to it too. Sirfetch'd is liking the meta more than it did before the new drops and new meta trends, and Mudsdale and Ground-Silvally rising is just the icing on the cake, making the catering with CB and Leek being a lot more worth it due to the new drops and changing meta. Its a bit more worth using Sirfetch'd now than before, even if it still hates getting burnt or statused.

Machamp to A: Yeah, guts+facade hits like a truck, and it is a bit more consistent than Sirfetch'd even if it has a somewhat harder time breaking through Snorlax, Stakataka, and Mudsdale after they set up, but Machamp is overall a better fighting type than sirfetch'd since it doesn't have to hold CB or leek, and it can dodge status conditions with flame orb whilst hitting hard. While it struggles more against pokemon that set up, it is overall better than Sirfetch'd and its tiering should reflect that, and Machamp also liking the new fat meta as well warrants a rise.


Also inteleon should stay where it is, while it is an option for setting screens, as well as specs being good, it needs a ton of team support to get it going, as the numerous priority and hazards can shut it down easily due to its middling hp and poor bulk. Not to mention the rise of Snorlax not being good for it, considering that inteleon struggles to bust through it even with crits due to Snorlax's massive special defense. Overall, C+ is a fair tiering placement that reflects it being way too situational most of the time due to it requiring too much support to actually threaten things with it. I kind of wish inteleon would drop to pu, since it is a tad overrated and would likely be very good down there, but that's the ladder for ya.