Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread

[Rabia]

-> B

Contrary to the above post, I think Sirfetch'd is pretty bad right now and should drop further. It's really awkward to build with because it offers nothing defensively; whereas Machamp can at least attempt an Assault Vest set and only requires pivot support to get its Flame Orb activated to no longer care about a weak Knock Off, Sirfetch'd is overly item and team reliant to be a fearsome wallbreaker. Leek sets are occasionally annoying when they keep getting critical hits, but other games you lose every coinflip and end up being a paltry offensive tool. The only real reason to use Sirfetch'd over Machamp or Toxicroak at this point is... First Impression being super effective against certain targets I guess? Potentially getting a critical hit versus Curselax? It's just not that good and should drop if anything.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

-> B

Contrary to the above post, I think Sirfetch'd is pretty bad right now and should drop further. It's really awkward to build with because it offers nothing defensively; whereas Machamp can at least attempt an Assault Vest set and only requires pivot support to get its Flame Orb activated to no longer care about a weak Knock Off, Sirfetch'd is overly item and team reliant to be a fearsome wallbreaker. Leek sets are occasionally annoying when they keep getting critical hits, but other games you lose every coinflip and end up being a paltry offensive tool. The only real reason to use Sirfetch'd over Machamp or Toxicroak at this point is... First Impression being super effective against certain targets I guess? Potentially getting a critical hit versus Curselax? It's just not that good and should drop if anything.

You have some good points, but with the rise of fat setup sweepers like stakataka, copperajah curselax, mudsdale, and grimmsnarl that love to click bulk up or rack up defense boosts means the metagame is getting fatter, Machamp can struggle to break through all of the following if they get enough boosts, and machamp can't really break through it with bullet punch since grimmsnarl is kind of hard to revenge kill with priority, considering its faster and has prankster. Sirfetch'd can punish these pokemon for even trying to set up by ignoring their defenses with a crit. A lot of the fatter setup pokemon like Curselax and Grimmsnarl do not like taking super effective crits that ignore their boosts. Not to mention sirfetch'd reliably outspeeds grimmsnarl, so it can pretty much shut down Grimmsnarl if it gets the poison jab crits. My point being, fat setup mons like grimmsnarl and snorlax are pretty much hardcountered by sirfetch'd, so dropping it to B doesn't make sense to me. Yes it is team reliant and is kind of awkward to build with, but now there is a worthwhile reason to run it, since the new drops are quite bulky and Sirfetch'd can counter them where Machamp really cannot if they get setup. Beating Grimmsnarl is something machamp probably won't be able to do as easily as Sirfetch'd, so keeping it B+ actually makes the most sense.

Bonus Nomination:

to A+/S- This mon is gonna be stupidly good. Bulk up sets I can see potentially winning games outright if they aren't dealt with quickly, considering this thing has not only powerful stabs and good coverage, and even has thunder wave to cripple counterplay. Probably a must for balance teams.

 

[roxie]

x

Relying on a crit seems like an inconsistent route to go when teambuilding. Mudsdale, Copperajah, and Stakataka feel out of place in terms of this category of setup sweepers. Mudsdale's main role in the metagame is a defensive Stealth Rocker and its ability is a more beneficial thing (towards its general longevity + Body Press) but that doesn't make it a "setup sweeper". Curse Copperajah died down once Cresselia got banned and the main Copperajah set is Assault Vest + Coverage. Giving up one of its coverage moves for curse isn't a great decision as you are giving up either Stone Edge (Talonflame), Power Whip (Vaporeon), Superpower (Snorlax/Guzzlord/Copperajah), and Heat Crash (Vileplume/Escavalier). Stakataka is a threat to Machamp under Trick Room but how does Sirfetch'd make it any better. Gyro Ball OHKOes both Sirfetch'd and Machamp (and Gyro does more to Sirfetch'd).

Leek Sirfetch'd isn't needed to break past Curse Snorlax as Choice Band / Life Orb (high roll after Rocks) OHKOes Snorlax at +1. A burned Machamp also can KO +1 Snorlax after some chip with Close Combat. I'm just going off a sample RU spread but Close Combat overall does enough damage from both Sirfetch'd and Machamp where Snorlax not sweeping your team. Guts is pretty effective in the metagame with Flame Body Talonflame + Scald users being quite common on most balanced builds. Facade + CC + Knock + Guts is similar to Obstagoon being tested in RU, nothing resists that coverage and it forces progress every time it comes in.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sirfetch’d Close Combat vs. +1 12 HP / 244 Def Snorlax: 400-476 (86.2 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sirfetch’d Close Combat vs. +1 12 HP / 244 Def Snorlax: 458-542 (98.7 - 116.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Guts Machamp Close Combat vs. +1 12 HP / 244 Def Snorlax: 450-530 (96.9 - 114.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

I've personally seen Bulk Up Grimmsnarl run Substitute a lot and switching your Fighting-type into Grimmsnarl is a dangerous play unless you know for sure it's going to click (Choice-locked) Darkest Lariat. Neither CB Sirfetch'd or LO Machamp OHKOes Grimmsnarl at +1, however, I wouldn't reference Fighting-types as the main checks to Grimmsnarl.

 

[Meri Berry]

Going to make an UR nom today for Cofagrigus, probably one of the best modern day Iron Defense + Body Press users in the tier right now.
-> C/C+

Firstly, I believe that this nom probably comes at a bad time because Grimmsnarl's Darkest Lariat can nullify it a fair bit, but I still think it has merit in the current metagame. It is one of the bulkiest users of the move with 145 base Defense, and unlike a Pokemon such as Diancie, it doesn't suffer from a 4x weakness. It also has solid Special Defensive bulk, which 58/105 not being anything to write home about but not poor with some investment. Shadow Ball covers the Ghost-type Body Press checks like Golurk, Dhelmise, and Decidueye very well, and also allows it to fish for drops against annoying physical walls like Mudsdale and Vileplume.

Before, I had been running a fully Specially Defensive set with Calm, but I've found this spread is likely better. It gives Bold for more powerful Body Press, but notably, it lives Guts Knock Off into Mummied Knock Off (without an item) from full if Stealth Rocks aren't up. This makes it a more effective backup check to Machamp even if you haven't Rested your Chesto Berry away. Also, the reason that Chesto Berry is run in the first place is to allow Cofagrigus to go itemless, while also giving it a higher potential to sweep after setting up some crucial boosts.

252+ Atk Guts Machamp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Cofagrigus: 220-260 (68.7 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk burned Machamp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Cofagrigus: 50-59 (15.6 - 18.4%) -- possible 6HKO

Replays and Set/Spread

Cofagrigus @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Shadow Ball
- Iron Defense
- Rest

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1550499893-s7h06ic8mpnuf84r71wjvte1i2v9plvpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1555476321-6w4aou16weu37nbgcsc11rwrvncffrypw

 

[roxie]

Cleric

Audino (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Knock Off

Quick Nom: After seeing Charmflash use Audino I was pretty eager to try it out. Audino has nice utility options such as Knock Off, Encore, Healing Wish, Wish, and Heal Bell as the former three moves make it unique from other cleric options such as Vaporeon and Sylveon. Furthermore, Regenerator allows Audino to continuously come in and check Pokemon without being 100% reliant on Wish itself for recovery. It's pure Normal typing notably checks Poltergeist Pokemon such as Decidueye, Golurk, and Dhelmise and leaves it only weak to Fighting-types like Sirfetch'd and Machamp. I think Encore is a neat option for dismantling opposing Wish passers and setup sweepers such as Snorlax, Talonflame, and Blastoise (so it's not so passive). I believe Audino should be C ranked~ (Link)

 

[Stories]

I'm actually quite open to the idea of ranking a lot of stuff to at least C rank that we've been too embarrassed to rank because we tell ourselves they're bad when they have the usage and results to prove otherwise

She needs no introduction. Players such as S1nn0hC0nfirm3d have shown that she can be as much of a cheese offense staple as the classic Decidueye Dragalge core. Access to Rapid Spin in a tier so starved for quality hazard control, one of the best abilities in the game, and the ability to spread status makes her especially unique and can be the fitting puzzle piece for many current teams.

Jelli always pops up whenever a mon becomes a bit too annoying because they just... solo like half the tier? Offensively and defensively checking metagame staples such as Mudsdale, Stakataka, Vaporeon, Weezing, and Talonflame. Any combination of moves can put in a crazy amount of work, just because they're all so good; Scald, Toxic, Taunt, Wisp, Hex, Strength Sap, Recover.

Drampa is a solid face tank with a rainbow of coverage, two great abilities, and a surprisingly great defensive typing. Drampa has gen 1 Normal-type coverage, getting basically every move in the damn game, and has the second highest Special Attack stat in the tier to abuse that coverage with. Drampa is slow but its faster than Pokemon like Copperajah by a margin big enough to naturally speed-creep anything speed-creeping Copperajah like Vileplume or SDef Grimmsnarl. Sap Sipper lets you completely blank Decidueye and pivot around Pokemon such as Rotom-C and Tsareena, while Berserk lets you effectively trade blows against almost any Pokemon. Drampa usually wins these trades just by virtue of its amazing coverage and natural power. Drampa also has great utility moves in Glare and Defog and also has reliable recovery with Roost.

Ren-chon suggested this and it completely went over my head that Ditto wasn't even ranked here, just because I assumed it would be because its.. Ditto? Its about equally viable in every tier despite being unranked by usage but what it does it so obviously unique that it shouldn't be ignored. In a tier filled with amazing setup sweepers and lots of HO concepts going around to abuse them, Ditto is an amazing Pokemon for both balance teams struggling to check so many offensive threats and for offense teams that are fearful of their frailer Pokemon being swept.

EDIT:

Thwackey is different from Pincurchin because it actually functions as a stand alone Pokemon that does something other than being a terrain bot. Grassy Terrain in general is also far more diverse than Electric Terrain teams and has more room for different concepts. Thwackey has surprisingly decent stats and a good movepool. It can run Eviolite SD viably or simply 4 attacks with Terrain extender. Grassy Glide and CM + Grassy Seed spam is actually pretty decent and I think the playstyle deserves to see more usage

Other Pokemon such as Audino and both forms of Articuno but the former two are pretty much exclusive to stall and in general outclassed or have a niche so small it has to be intentionally built around, and Articuno-Galar simply has a hard time in this metagame, although its fortes are incredibly strong on paper.

 

[Meri Berry]

Tiering Update:
Sheet found here. Everyone on the VR council voted this time, so no rotation this time. This one is a bit shorter than usual, but we did still vote on every Pokemon, as can be seen in the sheet. The noms that Togkey just made are not included in this slate, and will be going on the next one.

I do want to ask the question in the meantime: Do people think that C- is a good idea? If not, should we be a little bit more accomodating for more fringe options like those listed in their nominations post? Also, should a D rank exist to hold all Pokemon NU by usage that don't fit onto the VR? Let me know your thoughts on discord or here.

Rises and Drops

Rises:
NEW -> A+
NEW -> A-
A+ -> S-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B- -> B
C -> C+
UR -> C

Drops:
S -> S-
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C -> UR

Rises and Drops with Reasoning

NEW -> A+: Stakataka is a great addition to the tier, adding another Steel-type Stealth Rocks setter, and especially one that feels like it can set Stealth Rocks without losing out like Copperajah. Specially Defensive sets still hit very hard with Gyro Ball, and its typing allows it to check breakers with Fire-type coverage. Trick Room sets are also pretty amazing, only having a couple hard walls and OHKOing a large portion of the metagame. However, its major 4x Ground- and Fighting-type weaknesses hold it back from being a truly overcentralizing force, and hold it back to A+.
NEW -> A-: Grimmsnarl is very good at what it does in the tier, which is breaking with a Choice Band set. Bulk Up sets and other utility Prankster sets are probably serviceable, but the main set that's found use is Choice Band. The main issue with this set is that locking into any move is exploitable, and its relatively frail for a slow breaker. However, its power is really hard to deal with for most balances, and it relies on perfect reads or a bit of luck to check. It also packs Darkest Lariat to barrage past slow breakers and Sucker Punch to revenge kill faster ones, making it pretty useful as a breaker for keeping certain threats in check.
A+ -> S-: Mudsdale is a big winner of the Stakataka drop, finding itself as one of the hard walls to Trick Room sets and one of the main Pokemon to tank a Gyro Ball in general. It always soft-checks every physical threat, including the infamous Silvally-Ground as well as Fighting-types such as Machamp and more. The meta just tends to suit it pretty well right now.
B+ -> A-: Aerodactyl does a great job at exploiting Stakataka builds, being able to hit it with Earthquake and force past Ground-types such as Silvally-Ground that may be paired with it. Being a Pokemon that is faster than and can kill Talonflame is a huge boon to an offensive core, and its able to check breakers such as Salazzle with relative ease.
B+ -> A-: Unarguably the second best Choice Scarf user at the moment, it brings a lot of utility to a fast breaker. While its main role is just clicking Expanding Force, which is now made harder by the introduction of Stakataka, it enables offensive cores very well by adding a speed component along with Trick and/or Healing Wish to assist in breaking. It also nullifies Grimmsnarl a bit, preventing its Sucker Punch from dealing any damage with Psychic Terrain.
B+ -> A-: Quagsire finds itself checking a lot of common threats for teams that are shaky defensively, checking Pokemon such as Blastoise, Silvally-Ground, Stakataka, Salazzle, and Tyrantrum with relative ease. This increased usage is also in large part to Stakataka, which provides an adequate Stealth Rock user to go alongside Quagsire without stacking weaknesses.
B+ -> A-: Tsareena has just been having positive momentum with usage and perceived viability, with no new major changes that push it up the rankings. Power Whip breaks incredibly hard, U-Turn can bait things into play for popular breakers such as Silvally-Ground and Indeedee-F, and fitting Rapid Spin on a Pokemon that won't slow your team down is fairly important as well.
B- -> B: Exeggutor-Alola is a really good offensive Vaporeon check, often relying on Teleport sets with Sitrus Berry to pressure with its dual STAB and Flamethrower, or Teleport out for free on incoming checks. It allows offensive teams to keep up momentum on Vaporeon, while serving as a Grass-type to check Ground-types and pressure Water-types better than Dragalge would.
C -> C+: Tangela is a winner of the trend of Grass-types checking things on the physical side, covering major physical threats such as Stakataka, Grimmsnarl, and Silvally-Ground that have become popular recently and cannot affect its Eviolite.
UR -> C: Cofagrigus is just good at its one job, which is Iron Defense + Body Press, gaining defensive boosts a lot faster than a Pokemon such as Snorlax while packing the STAB move to cover Body Press immunities. I made the nomination, so you can see my full reasoning above.

Drops:
S -> S-: Copperajah is still a great breaker and one of the best Specially Defensive blanket walls in the tier, but it has serious competition from Stakataka as a Steel-type, and especially as a Stealth Rocks setter. Stakataka also makes coverage harder to decide, as Superpower is nearly required now, making Copperajah's best moveset a lot harder to figure out.
A+ -> A: Xatu hates the trend of Stealth Rocks setters that can beat it, and although it still serves as a great check to Physical attackers and as a great pivot with Teleport, it doesn't have the same potency that it used to when Mudsdale and Copperajah were the 2 undisputed best setters in the tier.
A -> A-: Guzzlord hasn't been used defensively much in a while, and it has serious competition from Grimmsnarl as a Dark-type breaker. Although it still has Knock Off, and it has much more defensive utility, it can struggle to find a place on teams with so much competition from both Dark- and Dragon-types and the 4x weakness to Fairy.
A- -> B+: Exploud just hasn't been working as well lately, often having to predict way too much for Choice Specs sets and being just a little too weak to break generic Special walls like Vaporeon and Sylveon with Silk Scarf sets. Its speed tier is awkward too, often finding a good portion of the opposing team is faster than it and can pressure it significantly.
B+ -> B: Competition with Stakataka is a major issue, but it also has competition with Mudsdale and Silvally-Ground that can either check things defensively or break better than it can. Rhydon is a good compression between the two, but the Rock-typing and Eviolite gives it weaknesses to things that the other 2 check such as Stakataka and Drapion, making it a bit awkward to fit onto teams.
B- -> C+: Vanilluxe just isn't a great breaker right now, often finding itself hard-walled by an opposing Pokemon and soft-walled by another. Support from Pokemon such as Silvally-Ground and its own hail can assist in breaking, but it often dies before the opposing check does.
C+ -> C: A decent U-Turn bot, but struggles a lot at breaking and is often forced to click U-Turn. Stakataka's introduction into the tier definitely hurts it, and its a very one-note Pokemon that does a similar role to Ninjask but stronger and slower.
C+ -> C: Faces more competition due to good Steel-type Stealth Rocks options, as well as multiple Ground-types that are very hard to take out of teams at the moment.
C -> UR: How Kingdra got unranked before this thing the world may never know. It often hinges its entire potency on a 50/50 of when to use its Meteor Beam, and its very frail due to not being able to afford White Herb since it needs Meteor Beam with Power Herb to function properly.

 

[Rabia]

poh added it as a comment on the slate, and I agree that Weezing should rise to A-. Of course, this is largely contingent on Silvally-Ground not being banned, but as of now? Weezing is incredible. Taunt sets are great for shutting down bulky setup sweepers like Snorlax and Scrafty, which run down a lot of teams, and Weezing's otherwise a great check to an insane amount of common wallbreakers: Silvally-Ground, Machamp (Facade moment), Tsareena, Sirfetch'd, and more. I also find it to fit incredibly alongside Stakataka; you really just need a good Water-type check alongside them to have a great defensive backbone.

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

A- > A+: A rise that still might not be enough, Indeedee-F going to A+ would reflect how good it is right now as a cleaner. Sure the utility options and good coverage for forcing out slower targets are all perks as well but it's really just the combo of Indedee-F + a wallbreaker like Dragalge that can put its counters into a range where Expanding Force sweeps by itself. At that point, your last concern is either getting the Wish passers down to that range as well or make sure the opposing scarfer can't revenge kill you. I can't undersell how so many cores just fold after the Steel- and Dark-types are gone. Even Starmie and Xatu fold pretty quickly too if you play it right. Right now, Indeedee-F teams are at the top of the meta with their unique wincon, and again even if that doesn't pan out you can still use the mon for Healing Wish, Trick, or forcing out most naturally faster threats. All signs point to Indeedee-F being one of the best slots for a Choice Scarfer AND wincon.

A+ > S- / S: With these first two noms, I think we're just finally coming to terms with the Bronzong departure and Stakataka's arrival. Stakataka is still a great special wall but with poor recovery (it doesn't pull off Rest like Bronzong did) and a huge Fighting weakness, so it's far from a replacement given how it gets lured in and worn down too easily. This Steel-type-swap also influenced Dragalge to run Focus Blast, so there's now only like two safe switch-ins with Escavalier and Togedemaru; both hate taking Scald too. Choice Specs sets are comital, sure, but Dragalge is so strong it's worth it to do like 40% to Copperajah and Stakataka with a Draco. I also think baiting Choice Specs just to Draco the Stakataka and follow with Focus Blast is a great idea too. Overall, and outside of Silvally-Ground, this thing is our best wallbreaker and should be promoted as such.

A- > A: More and more teams are fitting Tsareena because its an unparalleled level of offense and utility; it's like if Defog Talonflame was good. I've even seen this be used as a wincon just because after Rapid Spin, it can actually clean teams pretty well with how strong Power Whip is + Knock Off is great coverage for it. Not much more to add other than this mon is very good and usually works around its checks anyways or at least does worthwhile trades with them.

C+ > B: Togedemaru is a legit part of our meta now I reckon. It fills a lot of really important niches and I also see its use / powerlevel on par with other B rank walls like Rhydon and Mantine; all three have major constrictions as walls but serve vital roles for cores. With Rotom-C in S tier, and so many special wallbreakers like the ones above that tear through our other Steel-types, it's nice to have something like Togedemaru that can actually supply its own recovery.

Yes, I'm a hater too! I'll just try to verbalize my feelings here but I gotta reveal my hand here and say these noms are mostly coming from my gut cause I don't think they're "meta enough" for their current rankings.

S > A+: Copperajah has huge limitations defensively and it feels like every Pokemon on the VR can go out of its way to tech for it. I can't say any of our Steel-types deserve S tier because unlike Mudsdale and Talonflame, they're way too exploitable. Mudsdale and Talonflame do a great job softchecking almost every physical attacker by themselves because Stamina is nuts / Flame Body is nuts. There's more too it obviously like how Talonflame's Speed cannot be taken for granted in our current meta when there's so many random breakers and coverage to account for. AV Copperajah gets close to this level but I just think its too slow and awkward to be as successful as the other S tier walls.

A- > B+: As for Aerodactyl and Salazzle, these two suffer from being not strong enough for how frail they are. I never considered Aerodactyl as an A tier cause it feels so one dimensional and weak with all the physical walls that just stomach its hits, though as a physical sweeper unfazed by Talonflame, Aerodactyl certainly has a good niche––maybe it's an uncertain nom but again I just don't think it's worth A rank.

A > A-: Salazzle has a better history with the tier and I'm still comfortable with it on the right builds, and unlike Aerodactyl, it has a lot of disruptive coverage that makes luring or breaking down checks possible. I'm not just referring to like spreading poison and Encore, cause I also think stuff like Focus Sash Endeavor is nutty as a lure. Stuff like that makes me believe Salazzle fits more in line with Blastoise's rank rather than anything higher or lower.

A- > B+: Golurk lastly just fell out of fashion as there's faster wallbreakers or ones with more enticing coverage than having to rely on Poltergeist. It almost doesn't feel right to put Golurk on the same level as Tyrantrum, as Tyrantrum is usually way more devastating if it hits, but I also don't think Tyrantrum should rise just yet so for now that should make do.

I also agree with the Weezing raise but if SilvGround is banned I may have to rethink that one :P

 

[Segetarius]

Thought I'd get my thoughts in on some of the mons in the meta before the vote on Groundvally, which isn't great timing, but just go with it.

S -> A+/A
This mon has always sat on a throne of lies. Is it a fine glue mon on a lot of builds? Yes. Does it dish out a lot of damage? Maybe, but it is arguably the most prediction reliant of all of the non-choice item mons in the tier. Is it a passable check to a number of mons? Not really, most of the mons it checks either wear it down really easily or just slap it with coverage and God forbid you have to tank a physical hit. All of this combined with poor speed that really undermines its ability to break really kills this things splashability when compared to the other Steel-type options, and just does not under any circumstance justify a position in S to me.

A- -> A
This is a PSA to all NU players, use this thing more, it can fill just about any gap on a team. Be it in an offensive or defensive role, Decidueye brings great traits to the table, most notably its flexibility. With access to both Nasty Plot and Swords Dance, Decidueye can function as a sweeper on both sides and run choice items just fine if you'd rather not take a turn setting up. Defensively, I've been tinkering with Defog to great success. Having that Ghost typing is just really valuable both offensively and defensively, giving it both a fantastic STAB combo and a neutrality to U-turn, which also makes most variants of Decidueye a great offensive check to Groundvally. The Rapid Spin immunity is also kinda nice. You also have the benefit of built in Protective Pads via Long Reach, something Decidueye's main competition, Tsareena, can only dream of.

A -> A/A+
I have to disagree with S1nn0h here, I think this mon is a great pick right now. Especially with the prevalence of Wishpassers in the tier right now, Salazzle can really make the most of its nasty movepool. Now obviously, seeing Vaporeon does suck for it, but it isn't the end of the world. With all of Encore, Knock Off, Toxic, Nasty Plot, Substitute (if you're really diabolical), Taunt, Endeavor, etc. at its disposal, Salazzle can trip up any supposed counter to it with the right move. All you really need are its STABS and then you can go from there, some people like Overheat for extra power even. Personally, I've been running Encore + Knock Off to forcibly remove items and really stick it to Wishpassers, although you could probably do that better with Nasty Plot in the last slot. Is it frail? Yes. However, oftentimes you're running Salazzle alongside a core that can tank hits for it anyways, Salazzle is just there to make Sylveon users reggret their decisions and open up opportunities for its teammates to do work.

 

[Stories]

WIP EDIT: beautifying this post + replays

Been stock-piling some nominations until I was comfortable with the new meta. Not gonna repeat the ones from my previous post.

A+ ➡ S-

Call it recency bias, but I think Dragalge is an incredible Pokemon in the current meta as its Choice Specs set sees more usage. More teams using Stakataka as their Steel type means another thing Dragalge just Focus Blasts away and everything else in the tier just melts from Draco and Sludge Bomb. I feel like Drag was always a sleeper S rank mon anyway its about time it sees that love.

C ➡ C+

Not a very big jump but this thing is noticeably better than even semi-comparable Pokemon like Tangela and honestly arguably Froslass and Garbodor as a Spikes setter. With the sharp decline of Xatu usage further accentuated by Grimmsnarl's and Stakataka's debut to the tier, Ferroseed has a very easy time getting up Spikes and staying healthy with Leech Seed, while also having a positive matchup against a lot of hazard removers such as non-Fire move Talonflame, Starmie, Dhelmise, and Rotom-Mow. Ferroseed also compresses a natural Blastoise check and a Steel-type onto many teams, and has a treasure trove of a movepool featuring incredible moves like Knock Off, Thunder Wave and Toxic, Leech Seed, and surprisingly potent Gyro Balls and Bullet Seeds.

UR ➡ C

The best suic*de current lead in the tier for hyper offense teams. Aerodactyl and Froslass Taunt to prevent hazards currently, Kabutops can dish out insane damage and remove items and hazards with Knock Off and Rapid Spin respectively. I saw first inspired by S1nn0hC0nfirm3d's use of it very successfully and gave me the idea to use it on my Grassy Terrain team I very easily got Silvally-Ground reqs with. It's hard to demonstrate its function via replays because its purpose is so short-term and usually only sees the battlefield for like 3 turns

C+ ➡ B-

Inteleon is basically a straight-forward Blastoise; if your opponent doesn't have long-term Water resists, they will just auto-lose to Inteleon. its offensive stats can't really be compared to anything else in the tier as a fast special attacker and it's not even a black hole into Vaporeon / Mantine teams thanks to U-Turn. I only have replays from passing friends a Scarf Inteleon team for open that don't really demonstrate Inteleon's breaking power but moreso its cleaning power

Inteleon Replays

Gum slaying

 

[Phantomistix]

El noms

A- to A:

Exploration of mixed sets with Surf + IBeam + EQ has massively improved this imo. Being optimised to kill Copper from full, outspeed Helio, mon is stronger than ever rn.

A- to A:

Read what everyone else said^

A- to B:

Been very underwhelming when I recently tried it, being unable to use knock on a team is also painful. Ghost resists are fairly rare but opportunity cost of not using other breakers is simply too much to validate using this mon imo.

and A- to B+:

Solid mons, don't think they have especially shifted out of the meta, rather the other stuff in A- has gotten better to where they are better suited in B+ imo.

B+ to A-:

It does the same thing it always did. DD + Scale sets are incredibly threatening with very limited one time switchins and the only consistent switchin being muds, while being able to outspeed scarfers after a scale shot and a DD. Band sets are as threatening as ever with the immediate power.

B+ to B:

Current meta hasn't treated it kindly with the rise of weezing and exploration of trapper vileplume etc. The tier's preferred scarfers have an easy time revenge killing it.

B to B-:

Very on paper mon, negative bulk so very hard to bring in safely, opportunity cost.

B- to B+:

Been experimenting with this more and more recently, subtox DEVOURS the tier, as many people have been finding out recently. Non flying move mantine, vaporeon are setup fodder for this mon, and the omnipresence of bulkier grasses only makes this mon even better. Very hard to deal with and liquidation hits like a truck even with minimal investment.

B- to C:

Exploration of kabutops as a better suicide lead, increasing popularity of faster threats like aero and just doing nothing other than spikes makes this a mon I only see on rabia's outdated (and bad) sample.

C+ to B:

Hits like 3 trucks (lax dies in 2 hits lol), uturn.

C to C+:

Anti cheese, which is always good in a meta like this.

UR to C+:

Read togkey^.

UR to C+:

People sleeping on this mon ong. Higher than average special bulk and extreme power with reckless HJK allows for decent role compression with AV, provides rapid spin utility, band has no switchins although slightly weaker due to omnipresent tect spam. Unburden sets clean the tier bar sylveon and mudsdale.

Other thoughts:

Xatu. Many have been calling for this mon to drop, while yes utility sets are worse with the new drops, demon xatu is VERY strong, being able to set up on most teams and wreak havoc. The omnipresence of more passive mons in this meta (vapo, muds etc) only makes it stronger. In my eyes its still very much an A tier mon. Just having it on your team acts as indirect hazard control, something I think a lot of people underrate.

Late edit:

UR to B-:

Critdra actually goes dummy rn

Later edit:

UR to B/B-:

This mon is STRONG. Amazing stabs, amazing MU into stall and balance, sub berries are good, rest nat cure, band hits like a truck

 

[Lyra]

Hi, I am new to nu and this is my first time making this post?
to S-
This thing is like one of the best mons in the tier. It's specs and sub sets have seen a rise with bronzong leaving (hence removing the need for shadow ball for more coverage) and stakataka arriving. Not only did Stakataka arrive; it has become the premier steel in the tier, this increase in stakataka usage and decrease in escavalier usage means it is easy to slam teams that rely on staka as their steel slamming them with a fb and KOing it.
It's pivot set is still great and is a great glue on a variety of teams filling the role of a slow pivot, a Salazzle check (literally the second most annoying mon in the tier after vileplume which btw it is a solid check to too.)
It is probably one of our best breakers atm. Now the substitute attacker makes your opponent regret using vaporeon as their cleric still checking Salazzle and vileplume while also making sure that it's not easily forced out by big threats like Silvally-ground or Indeedee thanks to its sub. All and all i would say dragalge is a great glue on many teams functioning as a breaker, a slow pivot or wreaking havoc against many teams with its sub set.
I think all this makes it deserving of the S- rank.
Since i am quiet new i am not sure if this post really tells what is capable of and also any criticism is appreciated.
ps: ~~Thanks for wasting your time reading this~~

 

[OnArceus]

UR -> B+

Sandaconda is a cool snake :). He's recently seen more tour use and I think he's a pretty viable alternative to mudsdale. As a ground type with a similar movepool it competes for the same slot as mudsdale, but it does some things a little better. I'll outline a few points below.

1. Sandaconda has a decent speed. With just 48 speed investment, it can outspeed non speed boosting nature base 45's and below. Most notably this is dragalge. Dragalge is one of the biggest monsters in the metagame currently. Letting specs dragalge in generally just means losing a pokemon. Having a ground type that doesn't let it get a kill is very useful and can help patch up your team with offensive pressure towards it. In the third replay provided, my dragalge would have been far more threatening if the sandaconda was a mudsdale.

Another useful thing it outspeeds is copperajah. This is another thing muds doesn't do. Mudsdale generally isn't 2hko'd by copper's power whip because of stamina, but since sandaconda doesn't have that, it usually is 2hkod. Here, sanda can be better or worse depending on the team. Sandaconda isn't as heavy as muds, so you can't really bait out the heavy slam like you could with muds.

calcs

0 Atk Sandaconda Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 252-296 (92.9 - 109.2%) No hp dragalge

0 Atk Sandaconda Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Copperajah: 308-366 (80 - 95%) 2HKO AV copperajah
252+ Atk Copperajah Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Sandaconda: 182-216 (52.2 - 62%) AV copperajah
252+ Atk Copperajah Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Sandaconda: 136-162 (39 - 46.5%) AV copperajah

0 Atk Sandaconda Earthquake vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Copperajah: 308-366 (72.6 - 86.3%)
16+ Atk Copperajah Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Sandaconda: 154-182 (44.2 - 52.2%) Rocks copperajah
16+ Atk Copperajah Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Sandaconda: 115-136 (33 - 39%)

2. Sandaconda can run rocky helmet. This is the reason I started running sandaconda on some teams. Rocky helmet is valuable throughout the game for chipping things. Chipping things like silvally-ground can be useful for partners like drapion, toxicroak, revenge killers, etc. The third replay attatched shows sandaconda chipping my silvally and staka in an nupl game.

3. Sandaconda has shed skin. This in combination with rest can give sandaconda longevity without having to rely on a partner like wish vaporeon. It lets it remove status like toxic from opposing stakataka. The first two replays attatched show sandaconda using rest to get HP back and continue to be a threat even after taking some hits.

4. Sandaconda has glare. This can be worse than mudsdale's toxic, body press, or other filler in some matchups. Vs rotom-mow it can be deadweight. Even vs an opposing rotom-mow though, glare can be useful to force switches from pokemon that don't want to be parad, and sandaconda can still get rocky helmet chip and check things. Glare can help to revenge things like silvally ground, or just beat them outright with minimal hax. It can also help teammates by slowing things down. The first replay shows me skillfully clicking the move that deletes turns and 1v1ing a tsareena.

In conclusion, sanda can do a few things better than muds. Getting chip on silvally and outspeeding dragalge can be important in a lot of games, especially with both being complete monsters atm.

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ru-621007
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ru-621005
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-626899

ideal sanda set

Sandaconda @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe
Impish Nature
- Glare
- Rest
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

 

[Luck O' the Irish]

Not a ton to add to previous noms. Dragalge to me is indisputably a top 3 Mon atm and it’s influence in the builder is clear with the rest escav that popped up a bunch in week1. Sub is definitely the set to be aware of now. If you don’t have escav and you have a vap/plume you’re in danger at preview.

conda I support to the vr but it caps out at c+/maybe b- to me at the moment. It kinda wants eq/rest/glare/coverage (either rock coverage or lol skitter smack). It’s got good mu’s against a lot of important mons but you’re more or less playing down 5-6 against mowtom, a mon that no one never at least considers on pretty much every team, which kinda sucks! Would be curious how non sr sets do tho

 

[Rabia]

Always a bit hesitant to jump the gun and rank new finds rather high, but I think Sandaconda is pretty fairly placed in B- given what's there anyway. I think opportunity cost is worth mentioning because Silvally-Ground often fills that spot of "I need a Volt Switch deterrent + some Speed" even if the two Pokemon aren't the same otherwise, and yeah Mudsdale competition is always going to exist. But I think NU Open has shown us that Sandaconda is certainly quite functional, and I think Shed Skin + Rest meaning you don't particularly care about having Wish/cleric support is quite huge.

 

[Stories]

Looking at the VR and I think a lot of stuff should move out of tiers just because they're better than the others within that tier.

What Should Rise

-> S- Pretty freezing cold take now but Dragalge's offensive presence with Adaptability Draco Meteor and STAB Sludge Bomb for Fairy-types and Focus Blast for Steel-types, Thunderbolt for Mantine, and Hydro Pump for Mudsdale and Rock-types, along with Flip Turn for teammates momentum has made Dragalge nearly impossible to prep for. Couple this with Dragalge's amazing defensive profile of a bulky Poison-type and you have a Copperajah-esque Pokemon capable of tanking powerful hits and dishing out even more powerful ones.

-> A so nothing really comes in on this? Free Rapid Spin and Knock Off cripples every single Power Whip resist, with a crazy movepool to fit whatever the team needs. U-Turn, Aromatherapy, Synthesis, Triple Axel with a ton of viable items too like Boots, Yache, AV, and itemless. Everyone knows what this thing does I just think it should rise once more since it started drastically rising a couple months back.

-> A- Toxicroak is currently in B+ with a bunch of similar wallbreakers like Exploud, Sirfetch'd, and Tauros. Toxicroak's defensive utility as a Water immunity and Fight and Knock resist mean it can consistently hit the field while still putting up similar numbers to the other Pokemon in B+. I've been using different resist berries like Coba and Shuca on Croak since its item is pretty malleable and you can pretty much just choose what checks you.

-> A- Weezing is by far the best Silvally-Ground check that also holds metagame relevance outside of that role. Taunt Split is capable of soloing the classic Eeveelution + Ground-type + Steel-type balance cores and Rocky Helmet can consistently punish U-Turn spammers that otherwise are risky to punish like switching Talonflame into a Passimian Rock Slide. Weezing can also be paired with other Poison-types without stacking that detrimental Ground weakness that so many teams struggle to avoid stacking.

-> B+ Drapion is still an insane progress maker with a broken defensive typing. People consistently sleep on this thing but in a tier that struggles to keep up its speed tier, base 95 is incredible for a bulky SD breaker. Shuca Berry Aqua Tail sets consistently lure and dispatch Silvally-Ground and even Knock Off can make great progress on Mudsdale with the right support.

-> B Araquanid has become increasingly popular as a tank that can abuse Vaporeon and also naturally check Pokemon like Blastoise. Its natural special bulk and surprisingly high Speed tier let it dunk on almost every Steel-type while being able to 1v1 special attackers like Starmie and even Rotom-M. SubToxic with hazard support is another balance destroyer. Araquanid is also just better than everything in B- tier.

-> B so idk why Inteleon is ranked so low but its on par with Starmie as a special Water-type breaker with higher speed and equal power to LO analytic Starmie with Choice Specs. U-Turn can draw in Vaporeon and Mantine and most other Pokemon that can take 2 Hydros are 2HKO'd by Ice Beam like Guzzlord, Rotom-M, and Toxicroak. Very prediction reliant and linear but certainly not C+ rank, people definitely gaslit themselves into thinking it should be down there.

-> B Rotom-Mow is very blatantly the best mon in the tier by a large amount and has the highest usage for NUPL w1 with a 70% winrate and you're telling me there's a Pokemon that completely blanks it and isn't a complete black hole outside of the Mowtom MU? I've used Choice Scarf, SubTox, and Wish Spiky Shield all to great results and can usually compress defensive cores extremely well for offensive teams.

what Should Drop

-> A+ This thing has stiff competition from Stakataka and Escavalier currently, and while its still great, I think right at this moment it gets too overwhelmed as an AV mon and has never been a great Rocker.

-> UR jk A- rank for now, Diancie is so terrible defensively and is only good as a lure offensively. Could use some more exploration and development but as it stands right now Diancie is just not that amazing.

B- how did it get up here?

(imo)

 

[Lucario]

The line between the tier's great (S-rank) Pokemon and good (A-rank) Pokemon is very thick. All Pokemon in S/S- and even A+ are so good at what they do while the Pokemon in A/A- are on a power level that is just so less. The current A+ and above Pokemon are Rotom-Mow, Silvally-Ground, Talonflame, Copperajah, Mudsdale, Dragalge, Stakataka, and Sylveon. I agree with Togkey in saying Copperajah should drop as it does face some competition and is generally not meta defining. The rest, bar Sylveon, however, are all easily S-rank in my opinion. I talked to both Meri and Ho3n about their thoughts on what distinguishes A+ and S- and they both shared similar ideas while explaining different aspects of the Pokemon. To combine what they both said, S ranks are for the Pokemon that are the top of the top and highly splashable while needing to be somewhat in check when building. I'll get to the main point I wanted to make. I think that the power differences within the ranks is off, especially with the A ranks; I think a lot of Pokemon deserve to rise when taking into account the current S ranks. I hope what I said makes sense.

A dumbed down version of this is that the stronger Pokemon aren't high enough while mediocre/outclassed Pokemon may be a tiny bit too high. This is due to power levels within subranks not being fully consistent.

Rises

--> S- The flavor of the month is a versatile Pokemon. Specs Dragalge really does break a lot of the common balance going around, even resists like the 3 Steels don't like switching into Draco as they don't have reliable recovery to do it multiple times. Utility/Pivot sets are awesome at getting in partners while Toxic Spikes can occasionally have its niche. Every team needs to have a check to this or else they just lose.

--> S- Staka is fantastic at existing and does its job as a Stealth Rocker and Steel-type better than the rest (besides Mudsdale for the former). OTR sets are scary and can rip holes into teams using Machamp or Silvally to knock it out. It's a rocker that heavily threatens Xatu, Tsareena, and even Dhelmise and Rotom-Mow to an extent. As a Steel-type it can run Leftovers and not lose any bulk like Copperajah and isn't scared of the coverage of Indeedee or offensive Diancie/Sylveon, but should watch out for Dragalge and Exploud's Focus Blast.

--> A+ With the rise of Indeedee and Dragalge Escavalier has been a notable Pokemon to check both. Similar to Staka, it can run Leftovers without losing out on bulk. Escav also has the ability to not get destoryed by CritDra or Inteleon, which is pretty nice. Being able to freely Knock Off whatever it wants is big as not many Pokemon can afford to lose their item in the current meta, such as Talonflame, Vaporeon, and Sylveon. It is reliable at spreading Toxic and can fit a STAB move to deal with either Sylveon or Rotom-Mow.

--> A+ Salazzle is one of the Pokemon that fits my idea of the rankings the best. It has a superb Speed tier, an above average offensive typing and a great Special Attack. Salazzle best pairs with Silvally-Ground at the moment due to it being able to stop Weezing, Dhelmise, and Tangela without an issue. At +2 most of Salazzle's would-be checks are going to suffer, most notable being Vaporeon.

--> A+ Vaporeon can wish to go to the Moon and it will find a way because of that huge HP stat. As a cleric alone Vaporeon is an outstanding Pokemon that tends to not die. With its defenses in mind, it helps check some of the biggest threats in Silvally-Ground, Blastoise, and Scarf Indeedee. Vaporeon has always been a great Pokemon, and while it is very passive against Toxicroak and Dragalge, it can still put in a lot of work.

--> A 2 Pokemon check this without needing support, what else is there to say?
--> A Choice Band sets are very strong and teams tend to rely on Sylveon, Guzzlord (does Guzz still exist??), and Diancie to not get obliterated. Trick sets are also funny versus Rotom, Talonflame, and generally anything that relies on Leftovers for longevity. Grimm makes room for pivots to do their thing, which is another plus.
--> A Great Scarfer, great Specs abuser. There's probably like 3 things that can constantly switch into it. It can also be a cleric before it dies, which helps a lot if your Vapo/Sylveon has died.
--> A Remember what I said about overall power? Yeah, well this thing hits harder than Will Smith. Status is a great thing in Pokemon, but being able to abuse it and go even further with Facade to take out would-be checks like Vileplume, Talonflame, and low-health Sylveon is insane.
--> A I said the line between the general power levels of the tier is thick, but its not as fat as Snorlax. Curse sets are still amazing and CB can put in some work. Being a sweeper that can check Indeedee, Salazzle, Starmie, Blastoise, etc. is very rare and is an amazing trait. It's also miles above the rest of the A- Pokemon that I haven't already listed.
--> A I don't have much to say about this because Togkey already said it perfectly.

--> A- Great Spinner that has longevity, strong moves, and the ability to check Silvally. It can also run Yache to check Inteleon and Stoise, which is funny. SpDef sets can somewhat check Dragalge, but it has to be careful, which holds it back a lot.

--> B+ Walmart Vaporeon that is semi-splashable. It can remove hazards, which is cool, too.
--> B+ Big damage, like HUGE damage. If you don't have one of the 2 Water immune Pokemon then you auto-lose against it.

Drop

--> A+ Yeah, Copper is the only drop. Copper is starting its second fall down the VR, this time because of Stakataka. Staka can do everything Copper can do, except for checking Stoise, but better. I already explained what Staka can do, so I won't bore you again. Honestly, A+ may even be a little high for Copperajah.

Picture of my ideal VR

As you can tell, some Pokemon are in ranks that I didn't already mention, I suck at explaining so I couldn't explain all. I'm also too lazy to do any of the C ranks.

 

[Rabia]

been overly lenient for awhile but going forward I’m going to be heavily enforcing the rule about UR noms requiring replays; it has been too frequent that people just say “yo this mon good rank it in some relatively high spot” without any evidence and it’s annoying

 

[Stories]

been overly lenient for awhile but going forward I’m going to be heavily enforcing the rule about UR noms requiring replays; it has been too frequent that people just say “yo this mon good rank it in some relatively high spot” without any evidence and it’s annoying

Sorry!

 

[PowerOfMemes]

In my opinion, ...

Rises

A+ to S-
Dragalge is a very powerful wallbreaker with its ability in Adaptability powering up its STABs to stupid levels, and it abuses this with its two sets; Specs and Sub. Sub Dragalge preys on weakier, bulkier 'mons or ones that can't hit it very hard at all, like Vaporeon, Arcanine, and Rotom-C, to set up its Substitute, and then it just clicks buttons with its STABs + Focus Blast, as it has no need to predict behind its Sub. Specs dents bulkier 'mons and punishes switches way more than Sub. It also surprises you if you predicted a Sub or Bulky Pivot set, as Silvally-Ground, which would normally check it after taking a Draco from a Bulky Pivot set or a Sludge Bomb, drops to Specs Draco. And Specs having one free movesolt lets it surprise something else; it can surprise either Mudsdale and the like with Hydro Pump/Surf, something like Mantine with Thunderbolt, Flip Turn for pivoting, or Toxic Spikes for entry hazards.

A+ to S-
Stakataka is fantastic at its job as a rocker, as it has a quite interesting typing of Rock and Steel. This typing gifts it a neutrality to Fire which the other Steel-type rockers in the tier can't boast. Its Trick Room set is way more offensively pressuring, though. As if it gets even one KO, it can sweep your entire team putting you on thin ice. Sure, its Fighting- and Ground-type weakness is a big detriment in a tier full of Fighting-types, but a) its TR set basically ignores that by OHKOing basically everything and b) it can play around them with Flying-type teammates like Talonflame

A to A+
Since both Indeedee-F and Focus Blast Dragalge are becoming more common, Escavalier has been a check to both bar a Mystical Fire from Indeedee-F. It having access to Knock Off also lets it cripple its would-be-counters by making them weak to Stealth Rock and it has access to Razor Shell, letting it finish off those checks on the switch. It's also a reliable Toxic spreader and always takes car of Rotom-C with its Megahorn/X-Scissor or Sylveon and Diancie with its Iron Head.

A- to A
Very few Pokemon switch into this. Sure, Vaporeon, Sylveon, and Yache Rotom-C check it, but it just sets up on the bulkier ones to break through-and for Yache Rotom-C it has a 10% chance to fail. But, even if you have a team of only special walls it could still break through with a surprise physical Shell Smash set with Liquidation, Ice Punch, and Earthquake.

A- to A
Because of the prevalence of Fighting-types *cough* Machamp *cough*, Dragalge, and having access to both Dazzling Gleam and Mystical Fire lets it hit everything in the tier like stupid bar Stakataka, which lets it run either a Scarf for speed control (which is preferred) or Specs for super powerful wallbreaking. It also gets access to Healing Wish which lets it heal up one of its teammates to have another chance of sweeping or being a pain-in-the-butt wall.

A- to A
This thing is very, very good. It only needs one free turn to activate its Flame Orb which means it doesn't fear Talonflame, as it cannot switch-in because Close Combat is a 2HKO; if they roost, they lose their part Flying-typing and die. It also clicks Knock Off which takes care of, if not, heavily dent, Psychics that feel like coming in. Facade gets to, factoring in Guts boost, 210 base power-nothing's exactly tanking that. It also carries Bullet Punch or Heavy Slam for Fairies on the switch in.

A- to A
Just like what Togkey said. It's an amazing spinner with a very diverse movepool; U-turn for pivoting, Aromatherapy for clerical abilities, Synthesis for recovery, Taunt + Toxic for stallbreaking, Knock Off for crippling, Triple Axel for Flying-types, High Jump Kick for Steels like Stakataka, and even Play Rough/Zen Headbutt for Fighting-types! Honestly, looking at its movepool, it's definitely capable of running offensive set.

B+ to A-
This 'mon is an amazing Fighting-type as Fairies are threatened thanks to its secondary type, and it has a Water-type immunity. Scarf sets are amazing as revenge killers with Knock Off for Psychics and Earthquake opposing Poisons. SD sets are dangerous, as they have priority with Sucker Punch surprising you. And, special sets are scary because they come in on Steel-types like Stakataka who think they're safe from an OHKO until they see that animation. It also gets access to its own priority, Vaccuum Wave.

B to B+
There aren't too many Fairies in the tier, due to RU stealing all of them, making Scarfty a decent Bulk Up/Dragon Dance cleaner with the Steels in the tier that can take care of or heavily chip them opening up the way for a sweep. Shed Skin definitely helps with a Toxic from stuff like Vaporeon, but Moxie lets you snowball into something that can't be stopped.

B- to B
This thing is very good at baiting in Steel- and Rock-types and finishing them off with Close Combat (or Iron Head for Diancie). A Bulk Up + Roost set likes to set up against weaker physical attackers or non-Smack Down Mudsdale; if it sets up, it can sweep only leaving it. A Defiant set can also be nicely abused with hazards letting it break and possibly sweep as well, endgame.

C+ to B/B+
Now, at first sight, this seems like a massive rise for no reason at all, but actually there is. First of all, defensive capabilities; it hard counters many S- to A-tier types such as Dragalge, it's only able to be hit by coverage from its Specs set; Stakataka, it's only able to be hit by a random Earthquake on its TR set; and Stealth Rock Copperajah, as it lacks Heat Crash. And, offensively, it can run Rock Slide for incoming Talonflame, Close Combat for the Steels, Shadow Sneak for priority, and Toxic for walls like Vaporeon.

C to C+/B-
With 'mons like Dragalge and Staka on the rise, Sneasel can abuse them; it sets up with SD, takes care of Dragalge with Triple Axel, uses Knock Off for Indeedee-F, and Low Kick OHKOes Staka after an SD. It's just a fairly decent sweeper.

Drops

S- to A+
It faces too much competition from Stakataka as a rocker; the only thing Copperjah has over it is its coverage. Yeah, that's a still a good enough reason to run it, but why would you when you can use a 'mon that has a sky-high defense stat, letting you poor the EVs into SpDef without worry. Also, this thing lacks Toxic, making it rely on damage output alone for progress.

A- to B+
This thing doesn't do too much tbh. It's outclassed as an offensive Ground-type by Silvally-Ground, an offensive Ghost-type in Decidueye who can run SD or NP sets, and Mudsdale as a rocker; only niche this thing has is either Klutz Assault Vest Trick or offensive rocker, but even then Copper can do that (the latter).

B- to C+/C
This thing has little to no niche. Dragalge is an amazing Specs user that can use T Spikes on switches, Weezing outclasses it as a defensive Toxic Spiker-it has Pain Split too! And Will-O-Wisp to be even better. Only thing this can do is be a Spiker and T Spiker all it one that can counter its weaknesses/immunities with Seed Bomb and Stomping Tantrum, respectively.

Only if you read everything

TY for wasting your time reading this! :3

 

[Rabia]

locking while we update, expect it posted within the week

 

[Meri Berry]

Tiering Update:
Sheet found here. Roxie has resigned from the VR council, and we thank him for his continued assistance in the process. To replace him, we're introducing OnArceus to the VR council. He's a familiar face to our normal council, and we decided this is the best course of action for now to keep constant votes going. With that out of the way, here's the update!

Rises and Drops

Rises:
A+ -> S-
A -> A+
A -> A+
A- -> A
A- -> A
A- -> A
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
C -> C+
C -> C+
C -> C+
C -> C+
UR -> B-
UR -> C+
UR -> C
UR -> C
UR -> C

Drops:
S -> S-
S -> S-
S- -> A+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-
C -> UR
C -> UR

Rises and Drops with Reasoning

Rises:
A+ -> S-: Dragalge is the most potent breaker of this meta, with the presence of Stakataka only bolstering this with Focus Blast sets becoming much more common. Choice Specs, Substitute + 3 Attacks, Protect sets, all of them have massive potential to break with varying defensive flexibility. Dragalge heavily incentivizes people to build strongly around it, causing Doublade and even Bronzor to pick up in usage lately. It's certainly the biggest threat as a breaker in the meta.
A -> A+: Escavalier is one of the beneficiaries of a Dragalge focused meta, taking neutral damage from Focus Blast and being bulky enough to prevent Choice Specs Dragalge from completely shattering it. RestTalk sets with Megahorn and SD are also becoming much more popular, ruining many teams that lack a Fire-type move to hit it with or at least a strong breaker that can break through its bulk.
A -> A+: Vaporeon takes advantage of teams that only have a tool or two to break it, forcing them to play conservatively with their breakers so that they don't get swept by the aquatic demon. Although Vaporeon structures are still as exploitable as ever, it demands a newfound respect with how people tend to build more defensively to take care of powerful breakers.
A- -> A: Both Choice Specs and Choice Scarf sets are very powerful, and the doubt between which set it could be makes it even better. Choice Scarf sets enable offense in a way it couldn't have operated before, with both Healing Wish and a very fast and strong STAB to fire off. Choice Specs, however, can completely ruin cores without a Dark-type, often 3HKOing even Steel-types with Expanding Force.
A- -> A: Machamp is one of the best breakers we have in the meta. Although its held back by its speed tier, Flame Orb chip, and its physical bulk, it has amazing coverage in Close Combat, Facade (140bp), and Knock Off. These combine to make a threat that's nearly impossible to switch into, leaving only offensive checks to shut it down.
A- -> A: Quagsire is a staple in many Stakataka cores, checking a ton of Pokemon such as Blastoise, Silvally-Ground, Tyrantrum, Drapion, Scrafty, SD Talonflame, and much more. While it can't set Stealth Rocks, options to pair it with a solid defensive option that can have been widely broadened, and make these defensive cores super solid on balance and bulky offense alike.
A- -> A: Both removal and a breaking option, Tsareena's powerful Power Whip to take down most Pokemon is very well paired with a Knock Off to disrupt the Pokemon that don't. The compression with a Grass-type breaker as well as Rapid Spin allows this Pokemon to threaten many cores, and its speed tier puts it right above the most popular slow breakers in the tier such as Sirfetch'd, Machamp, Golurk, and Exploud.
B+ -> A-: Toxicroak has been underrated for a while, completely dismantling cores of Mudsdale + Vaporeon as Toxicroak can take out Mudsdale with a +2 Life Orb Low Kick, and can easily use Vaporeon as setup fodder (even Toxic variants). The slight downswing of Talonflame usage also helps the fellow.
B -> B+: Drapion is also very good, crippling Pokemon such as Mudsdale, Quagsire, Stakataka, and Talonflame with Knock Off while also running SD + Shuca Berry and Aqua Tail sets to OHKO Silvally-Ground without risk of dying. Its low attack means it can struggle to break some defensive cores, but its able to lure in and severely weaken many defensive Pokemon.
B -> B+: Exeggutor-Alola is a good breaker in the current meta with a slightly higher speed tier than Dragalge, as well as access to Teleport and Sitrus + Harvest. Choice Specs sets have also seen exploration due to its speed tier. It also happens to take very little from common Pokemon such as Mudsdale, Vaporeon, and Rotom-Mow, easily taking the hit and pivoting in to threaten a kill.
B -> B+: Heliolisk was underrated in my opinion last shift, and is moving back up as a threatening pivot and a Vaporeon abuser. Choiced sets are very potent, giving Heliolisk either an unmatchable speed tier or a strong special attack off of a massive array of coverage. Magnet or Heavy-Duty Boots sets are less exploitable, allowing Vaporeon to not scout what the Heliolisk user may do, which is a major weakness and a reason why it dropped before.
B -> B+: Scrafty is a really good matchup fish into anything that isn't a Fairy-type, and even then, Throat Chop allows you to beat Hyper Voice Sylveon a good portion of the time. It also tends to not be dead weight in matchups where it cannot sweep due to its massive Special Defense stat making it a good general check to special attackers that aren't too strong or Ghost-types.
B- -> B: Araquanid is a very solid Vaporeon abuser, inflicting Toxic on any Water Absorb Pokemon and threatening any non-Water Absorb Pokemon with a brutally powerful Liquidation. Although some Pokemon such as Vileplume and Dragalge can take advantage of the aquatic bug, its power and natural special bulk, as well as the fact it can't be burned, carry it up a subtier.
C+ -> B-: Inteleon is an awesome guy, breaking most non-Water Absorb teams with a stellar speed tier. Even though its relegated to clicking U-Turn in matchups with Vaporeon or Mantine, this enables VoltTurn cores by creating predictable loops for the user of Inteleon.
C+ -> B-: Togedemaru is a pretty nice defensive tool, completely shutting down Rotom-Mow by resisting Leaf Storm and being immune to Volt Switch. This allows Togedemaru teams to be the only teams that can reliably stop Rotom-Mow's mow-mentum without risking the death of an important defensive piece.
C -> C+: Ferroseed is a funny little guy that sets Spikes, and without much competition either. Without Xatu seeing as much usage, Ferroseed has a good amount of bulk and a solid enough hazard stacking capability to end up disrupting teams with shaky hazard removal. Although it comes at the opportunity cost of not using another Steel-type, the opportunity cost of Garbodor over Weezing or Dragalge is also becoming quite high, and Ferroseed pairs with Dragalge quite nicely.
C -> C+: Glastrier abuses Wish cores, especially Vaporeon, by Substituting on them and getting free SDs without a worry. This can make Glastrier the prime candidate for 6-0ing certain predictable cores, especially those that rely on Mudsdale as a primary physical wall.
C -> C+: Ninjask does what Ninjask does best, and with Stakataka rising so much, its almost always the prime target to get either a Water-type or Fighting-type breaker in on for free. It's also able to revenge kill important Choice Scarfers such as Rotom-Mow, Indeedee-F, and Passimian, making it a perfect candidate for offensive teams that need a revenge killer to opposing scarfers.
C -> C+: Silvally-Steel is a decent option for trying to get more speed into your team, giving options such as Defog and Parting Shot to keep up momentum, as well as outspeeding crucial threats such as Indeedee-F to threaten them after switching in.
C -> C+: Stunfisk-Galar just allows for a crazy amount of compression, enabling offensive teams to fit more threats without fully giving up on fundamental balance building principles. It isn't perfect at any job it has, but it does stop momentum from Rotom-Mow, and is able to be a Ground-type and a Steel-type adequately enough.
UR -> B-: A Ground-type that isn't completely fodder to Dragalge is a nice change, with a speed tier above Dragalge's and a threatening Glare to keep opposing Pokemon in check. Its also one of the best Stakataka checks with both Rocky Helmet and Shed Skin Rest to keep itself healthy enough to PP Stall Gyro Balls and threaten to KO with Earthquake.
UR -> C+: Another Pokemon that screams "compression", it is able to provide removal and a check to both Blastoise and Silvally-Ground in one slot. Not much more to say.
UR -> C: Jellicent is most well known for Taunt + Status and Hex sets, which can destroy traditional balance cores that rely on Wish or Heal Bell to keep themselves sustained.
UR -> C: Drampa is an okay breaker with Roost + Berserk, but it also is used as a niche Defogger to keep Grass- and Water-types in check.
UR -> C: One of the more popular suicide leads nowadays, it can Stealth Rock and often get off another attack with Weak Armor activated after Sash.

Drops:
S -> S-: Talonflame just isn't as good as Rotom-Mow, even with it still being one of the best Pokemon in the tier. Its usage has gone down with a lot of breakers such as Sirfetch'd and Specs Sylveon seeing less usage than they have previously, and its just not as important to use when facing down traditional Mudsdale + Vaporeon cores. Innovation is happening with Taunt + Toxic sets, but these have their own issues.
S -> S-: Silvally-Ground is just not as good as Rotom-Mow (again), and is getting more respect in the builder. Mudsdale gives it a lot of competition for the Ground-type slot, and it doesn't find itself completely mowing through teams as it did right when Stakataka dropped. Its still very potent and requires a lot of preparation, but its not quite S-tier.
S- -> A+: Copperajah is just a little hard to justify. Its one of the best ways to break in the tier, but its doesn't really outdo either of the other Steel-types defensively in any regard. Stakataka can handle Fire-types a lot better, and Escavalier can handle Fighting- and Ground-types better as well. Copperajah is in an awkward middle spot defensively, where its solo-Steel typing isn't a boon anymore.
A- -> B+: Decidueye just hasn't been performing quite as well lately, with Ghost-types in general becoming less and less meta. Poltergeist is rather easy to check, and Spirit Shackles is just not strong enough to break generic physical walls. Special sets break rather well, but struggle due to its Speed-tier and reliance on Leaf Storm to break.
A- -> B+: Golurk is still a good Pokemon, but the other Ground-types give it a whole lot of competition for the slot. Its quite slow as a breaker, and therefore easy to revenge kill, but it also struggles against generic physical walls like Vaporeon and Mudsdale. Its still very potent though, and it at least has the speed tier to revenge kill Dragalge and pressure teams by outspeeding common Steel-types.
A- -> B+: Guzzlord has just not seen a lot of usage. Choice Specs sets have been getting more usage in NUPL, but its just overall not that great right now. It has a speed tier just below Dragalge, and it struggles to break a lot of defensive cores regardless.
B+ -> B: Exploud just struggles against Vaporeon and Sylveon if it doesn't have Choice Specs, and Choice Specs sets are vulnerable to Steel-types that can pivot in and around its coverage moves.
B+ -> B: Passimian is just not as strong of a scarfer due to the fact that there's other Choice Scarf users like Rotom-Mow and Indeedee-F, as well as several strong Fighting-types as competition with Sirfetch'd, Machamp, and Toxicroak.
B -> B-: Rhydon is still a decent breaker, but it doesn't do a great job as a Ground-type as it takes a ton of damage from Stakataka's Gyro Ball and can't act as a physical sponge for many attackers such as Fighting-types and Power Whip Pokemon such as Copperajah and Grimmsnarl.
C -> UR: Aurorus should stay in ORAS, dumb idiot pokemon
C -> UR: Xatwho? This thing sucks.

 

[658Greninja]

Poor Druddigon. Went from great/good in NU last gen to shit in current gen. Power creep is real and I hate it.

 

[KingOfTheZoogers]

As a fan of Inteleon I'm popping off. Might try to build Volt Turn in a moment.