Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

Wasn't there also a Belly Drum set that relied on QC+QD to sweep? I vaguely remember it being a thing during IoA, but it seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.
That's probably its best set atm and a set it could viably run during the IoA, but I always ran Nasty Plot as it was easier to set up and there was less risk if you failed to get the QC + QD to activate. Still, if you get that QD + QC Drain Punch, then it is probably stronger.
 
I usually don't reply to smogon threads (I just read them because I find the conversation interesting), but I have to ask, what does the viability of quick claw have to do with it being uncompetitive? Sure, it doesn't succeed very often, but when it does, it's just a detriment to the game for the opposing player. There's no real merit in keeping it around.

Also, someone pointed out that paralysis is similar to quick claw, and while it's a good point, I only somewhat agree. Paralysis at least has a secondary benefit (lowering the opponent's speed), and also, it's possible to know what mons can run paralysis-inducing moves in the opposing team.

Sure, you can't plan for every random paralysis chance from a body slam/thunderbolt or thunder wave thrown your way, but you'll at least have an idea that it can happen. Any mon in the game can run quick claw; outside of Slowbro-G, it's entirely unpredictable.

Aside from that, I think the combination of Quick Claw / Quick Draw is an entirely different problem that needs to be evaluated separately.

Take what I wrote with a grain of salt because I'm an idiot, and I don't have much at stake whether or not it gets banned. However, I feel these are points people weren't thinking about enough and wanted to share.

Edit: Updated to fix grammar and writing issues.
 
Last edited:
Normally I don't reply to smogon threads (I just read them because I find the conversation interesting) but I just have to ask, what does the viability of quick claw have to do with it being uncompetitive? I mean sure, it doesn't succeed very often but when it does it's just a detriment to the game for the opposing player, there's no real merit in keeping it around.
Because there exists plenty of stuff that is uncompetitive, in the sense that all it does is add RNG, such as Sand Attack, Confuse Ray or Attract, but which nobody seriously considers banning precisely because these moves do not help often enough to actually win games by using them.
 
Because there exists plenty of stuff that is uncompetitive, in the sense that all it does is add RNG, such as Sand Attack, Confuse Ray or Attract, but which nobody seriously considers banning precisely because these moves do not help often enough to actually win games by using them.
Yknow honestly if those moves were tossed into the trash too then I certainly wouldn't complain.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
Normally I don't reply to smogon threads (I just read them because I find the conversation interesting) but I just have to ask, what does the viability of quick claw have to do with it being uncompetitive? I mean sure, it doesn't succeed very often but when it does it's just a detriment to the game for the opposing player, there's no real merit in keeping it around.

Also someone pointed out that paralysis is similar to quick claw and while it's a good point, I only somewhat agree. Paralysis at least has a secondary benefit (lowering the opponents speed) and also it's possible to know what mons can run paralysis inducing moves in the opposing team.

Sure you can't plan for every random paralysis chance from a body slam / thunderbolt or thunder wave that gets thrown your way but you'll at least have an idea that it can happen. Literally any mon in the game can run quick claw, and outside of Slowbro-G it's entirely unpredictable.

Aside from that, I think that the combination of Quick Claw / Quick Draw itself is an entirely different problem that needs to be evaluated separately.

Take what I wrote with a grain of salt because I'm an idiot and I don't have much at stake whether or not it gets banned. However, I feel like these were points people weren't really thinking too much about and wanted to share.

Imo, I think that pokemon is just an inherently not that good of a competitive game. I mean, battles can be decided whether or not a move connects with the enemy on a key turn. The guy who made the better move should win and not some missed hits but that's just me who plays a competitive game where rng doesn't have much of an impact

In terms with quick claw, its essentially the same thing as sand veil. It only adds more unnecessary rng to a game that is straight up rng dependent. Like sand veil, you cannot predict it entirely just as you mentioned. I'm even in complete disagreement that it has an opportunity cost as a reason to keep it around because while quick claw does have a cost, what if someone is crazy enough to use it and ends up winning battles

Lastly, I'm not too sure if the council would do something like quick claw + draw ban specifically. It's too similar to the drizzle swim ban they had a couple generations back and from the videos I've watched about gen five, it just opened up a can of worms
 
Could not care less about quick claw ban, but I think comparing qcqd to the gen 5 drizzle ban is inadequate: one is just an unnecessary complex ban to preserve an item no one will use beyond a haha funny on melmetal, the other was a big blow to a weather type in the weathers war generation. The viability of rain changing also shifted how good sun and sand (and hail lol) were, etc etc.

I feel like if you really want to suspect something (there's only 4 months left of this gen, remember), decide on if something like weavile is bad enough, otherwise I think we just gotta take the L on this gen
 
Normally I don't reply to smogon threads (I just read them because I find the conversation interesting) but I just have to ask, what does the viability of quick claw have to do with it being uncompetitive? I mean sure, it doesn't succeed very often but when it does it's just a detriment to the game for the opposing player, there's no real merit in keeping it around.

Also someone pointed out that paralysis is similar to quick claw and while it's a good point, I only somewhat agree. Paralysis at least has a secondary benefit (lowering the opponents speed) and also it's possible to know what mons can run paralysis inducing moves in the opposing team.

Sure you can't plan for every random paralysis chance from a body slam / thunderbolt or thunder wave that gets thrown your way but you'll at least have an idea that it can happen. Literally any mon in the game can run quick claw, and outside of Slowbro-G it's entirely unpredictable.

Aside from that, I think that the combination of Quick Claw / Quick Draw itself is an entirely different problem that needs to be evaluated separately.

Take what I wrote with a grain of salt because I'm an idiot and I don't have much at stake whether or not it gets banned. However, I feel like these were points people weren't really thinking too much about and wanted to share.
I agree with everything you said. I think people conflate the idea that because it's not dominating that it's somehow not uncompetitive, both those two concepts are not mutually exclusive. It doesn't have to be broken and at the top of the ladder for it to present issues when it comes to the competitive spirit of the game.
 
Never was, or at least as bad as people describe it, you guys just let the forums dictate your opinions/stances.
I agree with this, a lot of people often rely on others and change their stances and opinions on certain mons/the meta based on what others say, it's pretty sad. Although, I do genuinely think stall never struggled as bad as people said it did last year too, but everyone was just riding the wave. :worrywhirl:
 
Echoed Voice Primarina absolutely smashes stall if you are running into a bunch of that. 2HKO toxapex and blobs. just melts any non-shedinja teams.

:ss/primarina:
Primarina @ Metronome
Ability: Liquid Voice
EV IV I forget
- Echoed Voice
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1637769467-bdt0azjbao428c6lce5t918xidqurn8pw
I’m still mad that liquid voice doesn’t give a power boost unlike literally every -ize ability, despite being objectively inferior even if it did
 
hi. it's been a while since i posted here but as the gen closes out with olt and scl i thought it would be interesting to skim through my complete teambuilder throughout all the metas of this generation, from dynamax to the current one. it was fun to try and categorize all these clusters of teams into different metagames and i'll be highlighting some of the really impactful ones or self-built ones that i enjoyed creating or playing with. everything's linked, click on the pictures of everything for imports. i think it's also worth noting that i didn't really learn how to build effectively at all until after the beginning of dlc2 so don't put too much thought into some of the earlier teams that i made mostly for fun on ladder

here are the pre-dlc, dlc1, and dlc2 onward team dumps from my own builder that i separated out
dmax meta teams

a lot of these, as well as the rest of the pre dlc teams, were built with help from a non-smogon using friend, seasons

if we're being real i don't remember shit about this metagame at all. i remember starting the gen with a ddpult team day 1 that i really enjoyed, going for reqs with a double moody + togekiss + ditto + something team and getting locked a few times, and not much else besides the basics of shit like gyarados and bu corv and rain and ho being broken everywhere. dmax is an uncompetitive joke that shouldnt belong in most tiers
prehome teams

from what i remember of this wholesome pre-kyurem, pre-zeraora, pre-wishport clef meta, it was really fun. after the gdarm ban there was a ton of diversity in terms of which archetypes were viable and which breakers were primarily being used: some of the best ones being offensive clefable, sand and ghost spam, as well as random good mons like diggersby, primarina, and kommo-o making somewhat often appearances as niche breakers that could maneuver around the rotoms and corvs everyone was choosing to spam defensively. i wish i remembered more about how this meta played but most of my time was spent on inting on ladder with this awful flapple team me and seasons had built together. i distinctly remember using it to hit 2000 for my first time this generation:

post home teams

i had a love-hate relationship with this meta. having such a polarizing and restrictive meta with some of the major players all being broken was interesting in that a lot of the matchups were really even, leading to interesting and competitive games, but also they were really fucking dumb because you could lose to one double switch or over prediction vs things like conkeldurr and kyurem. the first several teams in this dump are all really really standard looking balances: wishport clef, corviknight, water type, fill in with customized offense and a rocker where it was needed. beyond there, i started experimenting with other playstyles like ho and stall before finding a few ideas i liked:


this team was my introduction to the offensive threat + kyurem check that is broken snorlax. you will see him more later, even past post-home meta


i don't remember who made this six first: i do remember brouha and myjava introducing the vap + hatt + lax defensive core core to me before i took some whacks at building my own team with it. it was interesting to have seen helpinghans' similarly structured RMT emerge at the end of pre-dlc meta but there were a lot of things i liked about it. in addition to having lax as the primary special wall, darmanitan proved itself to be one of the scariest breakers of this metagame, as long as you clicked rock slide or scouted otherwise on toxapex's bunker... but this is definitely one of my favorite teams of this meta and definitely a teambuilding experience i remember enjoying. there are a few more versions of lax + vap + a different fairy or lax + hatt + a different water sprinkled in through the rest of the gen.

normally i would add a new section for post-starters HAs but i don't want to make a new spoiler so i will include them here. dracovish leaving + libero cinderace coming was definitely, alongside kyurem, actually didn't change a ton for teams defensively besides mandating hippowdon on every one. you will see a team with hippopotas + hippowdon to make this even easier.


this team is my ss ou masterpiece, built with kings sparkwings Gomi Skypenguin and maybe someone else. it's noteworthy that this clef is not protect or wishport, as removing lefties from all of opposing clef/pex/hippo etc is extremely valuable for this offensive core revolving around switching in kyurem 50 times. keld is a fun last because, with its scarf, it checked shell smash cloyster and also was able to revenge opposing cind well and resisted ice beam. definitely one of my favorite and most memorable ss ou teams and a great one to end the gen with
very early dlc1 teams
this meta was kind of interesting: releasing a new set of dlc mons and previous ou staples like slowbro, alakazam, starmie, volcarona, etc made the first few weeks pretty fun to play. obviously, the biggest initial changes came from the reintroduction of cinderace, magearna, and urshifu. unfortunately, my dumbass deleted most of the teams containing at least cind and mag, although the urshifu ones are still there. you'll see a lot of alowak at the very beginning of the meta, because nothing can switch into it, before the tier eventually devolves into a lot of weather wars and ferro spikes battles.
dlc1 teams

i think most people identify this meta with the wcop and olt of that 2020 summer. i think this is one of my least favorite metas in this entire gen: it was heavily characterized by a lot of the dumb pivoting coming from insanely dominant boots pivots like dragapult, cind, and zera. i distinctly remember this six below being one of the major standard spikes builds a lot of people were choosing to spam:



another aspect outside of spikes/sand wars was that sun was actually viable, and there was a ton of innovation in hyper offense around the period of that olt. i'm sure everybody playing around then remembers this team plaguing ladder for months lol



there was also some interesting innovation in the form of ttar + exca sands returning and utilizing amoonguss as a good check to magearna, rillaboom, and some other threats:



one last interesting thing about this meta was that i think for a lot of people this was a return to kyurem being busted: a lot more people were experimenting with non-specs sets since clef was running less spdef and much less wishport, like sub+dd, while others were simply choosing to remain with specs and blow past everything. this team from ox the fox below is one i remember particularly well because of its synergy with watershifu and amoonguss' sleep, as well as pivoting support from other team members



i don't really remember specifically how the cind/mag bans affected the tier sorry
i apologize i deleted all my teams with the broken banned mons (genesect naga kyub zyg etc) but just know this meta was ass!!!! pheromosa was broken no matter what mfs tell u!
the teams

this meta was kind of interesting. the three mons im obviously highlighting here are the three big brokens, cind magearna and spectrier. interestingly gking started getting use because it could switch into specs magearna, while defensively almost every team had some variant of hydreigon or mandibuzz+pult or bliss+pult or zarude or some other bs way of dealing with the brokenness that came from ou's biggest demon spectrier. i'm glad that mon was banned before cind and mag. defensively there was a lot more slowbro and fs reliant offenses, as well as spdef tran to help hold off cind and mag respectively. besides that there wasn't really a ton different: ho was a lot more viable when it had whatever magearna set it wanted and the demon lo cinderace at its disposal, which is why outside of a few select teams ho wasn't really run until post bans olt later that year. that ben gay team dump gave everyone some cool ideas and cores to incorporate into their own builds, this one especially being memorable to me



this 6 below was another perfect example of the slowtwin-enabled voltturn offense thing i'd mentioned when specs mag and cind were both still in the tier, a pretty popular structure in that spl



seeing that wcar alt's name in my builder now is pretty funny too lol
teams

this span of several months was really diverse. lots of every archetype being used, but there were a couple major shifts happening during/after 2021's wcop and olt. a lot of the teams in my builder at this time were made for teambuilding lab.



this was a pretty iconic fat built either for spl or wcop 2021, and one of the only successful teams with reuniclus throughout the whole gen. this same 6, and edits of it with torn > clef would reappear often later in the gen



i hate this team with every fiber in my body. idiot Tricking ruined the ladder for months



this is definitely one of my top 3 teams i've created myself throughout the entire gen. kenix and ewin had created concepts of cress+kyu in the past but this was a permutation with a lot of the defense i wanted while keeping a lot of cool offense with roar tran and the pp stall element. my teambuilding lab explanation

rn i'm scrolling past that one fv rilla+sash weav+scizor+volc ho and the talah moltres sand team and the empo ghost spam that were really common during this spring/summer 2021 era

with wcop came some cool additions - people started using buzzwole as a physical wall to the terrifying dark types, cb bisharp and weavile, that had been plaguing the tier for a little while. spikes mew was a short fad to decimate fatter teams and keep em up vs most defoggers. i don't remember who made the first veil, whether it was bea or separation or someone else but that eventually popped up. people started fucking with kyurem sets once again, which would naturally begin the calls for its ban a few months later



probably the biggest and most recognizable meta shift of 2021 was hail becoming a thing. definitely one of the most recognizable teams of ss ou, and contributed a lot to the steel spam/huge drop in corviknight usage in favor of things like melmetal and ferrothorn that ensued later



this team i made is absolutely my favorite this generation. i spammed this one and hail in stour like my life depended on it. here's the teambuilding lab explanation



some other recognizable teams from that era that hopefully bring back some positive (or painful) memories


i used this one for reqs like 3 times



it seems like this last team was the one to push kyurem over the edge, leading to our last meta?
2022 teams

this gen has been really interesting to reflect upon, with all of the dlc differentiating it entirely from any other developing gen in the past. now's the time for some airfare propaganda: i want to talk about some thoughts on the current metagame and what led up to it/how it can perhaps be improved. 2022 was composed of mostly more minor meta shifts that pushed individual offensive cores in and out of favor. i cba to drop any more teams (they're all in that dump) but i would argue that there's one more major meta shift starting in 2022 that continues to this day. as a ss ou builder, i don't have too much issue building for mons like weavile or heatran. i have slightly more issues building for kartana, dragapult, and tapu lele. but i have the most issue by far building for stall.

in previous gens, even when your team doesn't have a wallbreaker to blow stall teams open, you can rely on consistent damage from hazards and momentum to rack up damage on walls and place them into range of the offensive mons you do have. even when facing something like mega sableye or a consistent defogger like gliscor, there are plenty of tools to let offense overcome a constantly-switching team of seemingly unbreakable walls. ss turned that on its head by removing pursuit and adding heavy-duty boots. it's nearly impossible to make progress vs these stall teams, as we've seen during this olt, wcop, and stour, unless one has an extremely polarizing breaker like specs lele or a rocks heatran to attempt to make minute progress against the common defog corviknight. there is nearly no risk required for the stall user in scouting even supereffective hits from things like a non-specs tapu lele or koko with regenerator users and games often feel entirely futile for the non-stall user. there aren't even really individual breakers like manaphy or hoopa in past gens that one can choose to solve a stall matchup - things like haxorus and lo weavile come close but are ultimately unreliable vs toxapex and unaware clef respectively. this isn't really an easy problem to solve but i do genuinely believe that stall in its current state is stronger and more consistent than it should be vs the entire metagame. using special breakers besides lele (ghost spam, things like zapdos, rotom cores, nidoking, volcarona), are otherwise healthy offensive answers to offense and balance teams but absolutely fall flat against prepared stall. it's a pretty polarizing archetype that requires the majority of its outplaying to happen in the teambuilder if facing a competent opponent. i'm not sure if i'd call it broken but i think it's worth thinking about any possible tiering action that could help combat this otherwise noninteractive archetype.

tldr unban bright powder
i hope this post helped some ss players reminisce about the glorious dracovish or spectrier metagames or some new players learn about the differences that came with ss tiering and the cash grab that is downloadable content. after finishing the rest of my individual and team tours i joined, i'm planning on taking a break from smogon and discord for either the next few months or indefinitely and want to shout out some users that have made my time on this site worth spending:
brouha Gomi Skypenguin FU SHUN HA Kaif u guys are all some of my earliest friends on this website and undoubtedly the best. thanks for being consistent voices of reason and humor when i need it

p****cord u know i love u 413X Hypertonix blittius BluBirD Chiles Habaneros epsilon_xd Fakee nick pastagirl @ chief keef Mom Lover zioziotrip pattek Ewin jonas Kyo Mr.378 QWILY peap power pqs simp William Seasons @ voldemort tigers jaw

my senseis and/or team suppliers that have helped me improve immensely in non-SS OU tiers: Century Express Caetano93 ElectricityCat Lasen McCoolDude Mr.378 Fakee Iris and many more i'm probably forgetting

and lastly two amazing team servers i've had the opportunity to contribute in within the last several months:

cryonicles keep your eyes peeled for my return and rightful claim to my manager spot this winter Gingy Triangles Endill Koalacance Raichy Conflict Exiline Groudon Jytcampbell Kristyl Lusa mncmt @ nalorium i guess Reje Spl4sh Splash Stareal Storm Zone crayon pop Ojama

and us south, thanks for the awesome wcop season Bouff TPP Stone_Cold FlamingVictini TDK Gray pdt Clone Eo Ut Mortus FMG HSA Ox the Fox Samqian Xrn

sparkwings simp revive puto

edit: somehow this is also my 1000th post lol
 
Last edited:
I have found a potential new tech for stall teams, which has potential despite an admittedly enormous opportunity cost- innards out pyukumuku:

Pyukumuku @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Level: 89
Hasty Nature
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP
- Block
- Spite
- Recover
- Rest

This set is modeled after a similar idea in gen7 where a pyukumuku set that guaranteed was 1hkod by hoopa-u, and killed back with innards out. The targets for this set are Crawdaunt and Tapu Lele.


252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. Lvl 89 252 HP / 0- Def Pyukumuku: 286-338 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. Lvl 89 252 HP / 0 SpD Pyukumuku in Psychic Terrain: 282-333 (100.7 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. Lvl 89 252 HP / 0- Def Pyukumuku in Psychic Terrain: 280-330 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Thunderbolt vs. Lvl 89 252 HP / 0 SpD Pyukumuku: 290-342 (103.5 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It kills back Crawdaunt 100% of the time, and brings lele down to 1 hp, and as such lele can be handled with any hazards or status of any kind.

Unfortunately, these kills may go away if the opponent gets hazards up, so I put hdb to avoid this. Even if the item is removed by some weird chance or otherwise some small chip is inflicted, bringing lele and crawdaunt down super low is still enough reward. Crawdaunt in particular will probably just kill itself immediately afterward, if it doesn't instantly.

The moves aren't important but they let you trap some defensive pokemon sometimes i guess. that might be nice to speed up your win.

While I struggle to see this finding consistency, it could be useful as a one-off or as a ladder gimmick, especially with the rise of teams such as mimikyu stardust's crawdaunt HO.


edit: got suggested on disc to run 0 def/spd ivs for higher levels


Pyukumuku @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Level: 94
Hasty Nature
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Block
- Spite
- Recover
- Rest

this keeps the calcs from before but also has enough hp for lele
 
Last edited:
I have found a potential new tech for stall teams, which has potential despite an admittedly enormous opportunity cost- innards out pyukumuku:

Pyukumuku @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Level: 89
Hasty Nature
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP
- Block
- Spite
- Recover
- Rest

This set is modeled after a similar idea in gen7 where a pyukumuku set that guaranteed was 1hkod by hoopa-u, and killed back with innards out. The targets for this set are Crawdaunt and Tapu Lele.


252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. Lvl 89 252 HP / 0- Def Pyukumuku: 286-338 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. Lvl 89 252 HP / 0 SpD Pyukumuku in Psychic Terrain: 282-333 (100.7 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. Lvl 89 252 HP / 0- Def Pyukumuku in Psychic Terrain: 280-330 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Thunderbolt vs. Lvl 89 252 HP / 0 SpD Pyukumuku: 290-342 (103.5 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It kills back Crawdaunt 100% of the time, and brings lele down to 1 hp, and as such lele can be handled with any hazards or status of any kind.

Unfortunately, these kills may go away if the opponent gets hazards up, so I put hdb to avoid this. Even if the item is removed by some weird chance or otherwise some small chip is inflicted, bringing lele and crawdaunt down super low is still enough reward. Crawdaunt in particular will probably just kill itself immediately afterward, if it doesn't instantly.

The moves aren't important but they let you trap some defensive pokemon sometimes i guess. that might be nice to speed up your win.

While I struggle to see this finding consistency, it could be useful as a one-off or as a ladder gimmick, especially with the rise of teams such as mimikyu stardust's crawdaunt HO.


edit: got suggested on disc to run 0 def/spd ivs for higher levels


Pyukumuku @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Level: 94
Hasty Nature
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Block
- Spite
- Recover
- Rest

this keeps the calcs from before but also has enough hp for lele
Might sound stupid to run speed EVs on the slowest Pokemon in the game but you can run 252 Spe EVs to outrun things like Ferro, Slowtwins, Sassy Gastrodon, 0 Speed Teleport Blissey, some Melmetal, Toxapex, Torkoal, and Quagsire. I'm not sure if there's a big downside to doing this as even with 0/0 defense IVs you can still trap a lot of bulky Pokemon and thus not be complete dead weight when not Innards-Out bombing some poor Tapu Lele.

Also I guess it's worth mentioning that just regular Unaware Pyukumuku with either no item or I guess Sitrus Berry beats any Crawdaunt set without dying in the process, especially SD but it even takes Banded Knock Offs well enough.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 134-158 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

Even so suicide bomber Pyukumuku seems like a lot of fun! Can't wait to try it out.
 
Last edited:
Might sound stupid to run speed EVs on the slowest Pokemon in the game but you can run 252 Spe EVs to outrun things like Ferro, Slowtwins, Sassy Gastrodon, 0 Speed Teleport Blissey, some Melmetal, Toxapex, Torkoal, and Quagsire. I'm not sure if there's a big downside to doing this as even with 0/0 defense IVs you can still trap a lot of bulky Pokemon and thus not be complete dead weight when not Innards-Out bombing some poor Tapu Lele.

Also I guess it's worth mentioning that just regular Unaware Pyukumuku with either no item or I guess Sitrus Berry beats any Crawdaunt set without dying in the process, especially SD but it even takes Banded Knock Offs well enough.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 134-158 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

Even so suicide bomber Pyukumuku seems like a lot of fun! Can't wait to try it out.
yeah may as well run speed evs for that good catch

my concern with no item unaware pyuk is that if there's hazards up it could potentially get 2hkod by crawdaunt, and outside of crawdaunt off the top of my head I can't think of anything else it's good for
 
I believe that regieleki's article in the smogon website should be updated.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the set written there,but I see a lots of people who are using this pokemon more offensively.

you should add a few more more offensive sets.
 
I believe that regieleki's article in the smogon website should be updated.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the set written there,but I see a lots of people who are using this pokemon more offensively.

you should add a few more more offensive sets.
I'd like to follow this up by saying there is something wrong with the set written there
 
I believe that regieleki's article in the smogon website should be updated.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the set written there,but I see a lots of people who are using this pokemon more offensively.

you should add a few more more offensive sets.
There's plenty of mons in sore need of an article update, but with a new gen around the corner I don't expect very much. People's focus is rightfully elsewhere.
 
something irrelevant to my last post:

as about the terastal phenomenon in the upcoming gen:

I know that this is controversial among the competitive community due to not having much downsides,so I would like to request whoever is in charge of making the rules to consider nerfing it instead of banning it, since one of the criticisms is that it does not require an item; you can make some rule about that,like a rule that allows terastilization to only happen on pokemon with no held items either on pokemon holding useless items like potion or pokemon holding hindering items like power band.
 
Last edited:

Ruft

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
OU Leader
something irrelevant to my last post:

as about the terastal phenomenon in the upcoming gen:

I know that this is controversial among the competitive community due to not having much downsides,so I would like to request whoever is in charge of making the rules to consider nerfing it instead of banning it, since one of the criticism is that it does not require an item you can make some rule about that,like a rule that allows terastilization to only happen on pokemon with no held items either on pokemon holding useless items like potion or pokemon holding hindering items like power band.
It's way too early to discuss things like this. We don't know all the exact details surrounding the mechanic and we are yet to see it in practice in a competitive environment. Also, we would like to keep this forum spoiler-free, so please refrain from this subject in this forum for now. We might make a thread dedicated to competitive SV OU discussion closer to its release date, but no promises.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 3, Guests: 3)

Top