Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

As I said, Flamethrower has 100% accuracy, but its weaker than Magma Storm or Fire Blast. Ancient Power lets Hit Volcarona Harder and pray of you get the 10% chance boosts. Steel Beam is powerful but it hurts Heatran's longevity.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 416-492 (133.7 - 158.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 416-492 (111.5 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Choice Specs Fire Blast can OHKO Volcarona, but it has 43.8% chance (90.9 - 107.3%). It can OHKO under sun, just like Magma Storm.

A Choice Band Heatran can be funny, taking advantage of its immense weight to use Heat Crash and Heavy Slam.

252+ Atk Choice Band Heatran Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 510-602 (129.4 - 152.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Heatran Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 454-535 (63.5 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Heatran Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zapdos: 318-376 (99 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Heatran Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Slowking-Galar: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Heatran Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Slowking-Galar in Sun: 447-526 (113.4 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

Heatran @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Burning Jealousy

An Assault Vest Heatran can take special attacks easier from special attackers such as Zapdos and much more. Burning Jealousy is prefered for burning foes such as Hawlucha when it tries to set up with Swords Dance or even when it switches in too. Fire Blast has more power and accuracy than Magma Storm but it lacks trapping opponents

With this set, Heatran is 2HKOed by the opposing Heatran's Earth Power.

0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Heatran: 204-244 (52.8 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Heatran: 248-296 (64.2 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Taking away lefties makes Tran’s weakness of longevity even more defined. Unless u plan on wish passing into it, av will just make it easier to chip down especially when hazards go up.
 
Taking away lefties makes Tran’s weakness of longevity even more defined. Unless u plan on wish passing into it, av will just make it easier to chip down especially when hazards go up.
Speaking of Blissey, Clefable and Latias, I say its an good teammate and plus hazard removers such as Rapid Spin and Defog can help Heatran more.
 
Heatran is a huge lover of Grassy Terrain, and it completely checks Rillaboom's or Tapu Bulu's weaknesses too. In such a team an Assault Vest Heatran could do the trick...but in such a team, Leftovers Heatran heals so much at each turn that it does not need the Assault Vest anymore. In addition, look, if you need to bring Burning Jealousy in Heatran's moveset, that means there is nothing more interesting to put instead. So you can't even take advantage of the fact you're forced to run offensive moves to diversify your coverage options. That's another point against it in my book.
 

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I don't really know what AV Tran is particularly trying to achieve? Running AV cuts into its resilience against hazards and Leech Seed, hurts its general longevity, and locks it out of utility options like Toxic, Stealth Rock, and Taunt that are a large part of why Heatran is good in the first place. It doesn’t fill a specific defensive utility niche like Air Balloon does, it doesn’t particularly do anything for Heatran’s matchup spread, and it provides no offensive utility either (if anything being less offensively potent bc u can’t run Taunt or Toxic). You could patch up a lack of Lefties with Grassy Terrain or Wish, but you could also just use Leftovers to enhance their effects, which will generally have a bigger long-term impact, especially given that Heatran is in the same boat as Ferrothorn in that it is one of those “at low health until it isn’t” kinda mons that can and will very consistently recover vast amounts of HP over the course of a game without direct recovery moves or Regenerator.

As for the set itself, Burning Jealousy is horrible. Genuinely one of the worst moves in the game. Just run Lava Plume if you want to burn stuff alongside AV; that way, you have an option for proactive status spreading (letting you burn Pokémon that come in against Heatran) and you aren’t forced to disrespect a bad matchup against a setup sweeper for it to do something useful. Hell, the sweeper could just as easily just stay in, nuke you, and then not face any consequences if Heatran happens to live bc the attack is only 70 BP and will never burn if they don’t boost on the exact same turn. The risk:reward is so far skewed out of Heatran’s favour that it is just not worthwhile.
 
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Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Focus Energy
- Psycho Cut
- Drill Run / Leaf Blade
- Blaze Kick

I call this CritMew. Focus Energy raises it critical hit ratio and has lot of moves with high critical ratio meaning it can bypass Defense Boosts with its 100% crit chance. Drill Run catches Heatran off guard and OHKOes it on a critical hit. Leaf Blade hits Slowbro and Tapu Fini which are both 2HKOed, however Choice Scarf Tapu Fini has 68.8% chance to be OHKOed after Stealth Rock. Blaze Kick OHKOes Kartana and for a physically defensive Ferrothorn, Blaze Kick must crit or be used under sun to OHKO it, otherwise it will be 2HKOed by it. Psycho Cut is the prefered move since it pairs well after a Focus Energy, it can deal a lot of damage on Psychic Terrain, needing Tapu Lele as a Teammate. Mew likes Wish, Healing Wish or Heal Bell / Aromatherapy Support as well.
 

Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Focus Energy
- Psycho Cut
- Drill Run / Leaf Blade
- Blaze Kick

I call this CritMew. Focus Energy raises it critical hit ratio and has lot of moves with high critical ratio meaning it can bypass Defense Boosts with its 100% crit chance. Drill Run catches Heatran off guard and OHKOes it on a critical hit. Leaf Blade hits Slowbro and Tapu Fini which are both 2HKOed, however Choice Scarf Tapu Fini has 68.8% chance to be OHKOed after Stealth Rock. Blaze Kick OHKOes Kartana and for a physically defensive Ferrothorn, Blaze Kick must crit or be used under sun to OHKO it, otherwise it will be 2HKOed by it. Psycho Cut is the prefered move since it pairs well after a Focus Energy, it can deal a lot of damage on Psychic Terrain, needing Tapu Lele as a Teammate. Mew likes Wish, Healing Wish or Heal Bell / Aromatherapy Support as well.
Not to be rude but can we please have some quality control on some of the sets that are being posted in metagame discussion? Golurk being discussed at all, but especially AV, AV tran, and now crit mew. We have a heat thread dedicated to stuff like this.

Using offensive mew is already hard to build with and use but this set just doesn't do what made offensive mew anywhere close to viable.

Why go for a crit mew when you can just SD? The only bonus you get is breaking through defense boosting mons which is not super common, and the more common ones still sit on you like corv. Worse, you have to have a scuffed moveset with lower base power moves (drill run's 80 vs earthquake's 100) (psycho cut's 70 vs psychic fangs' 85). Mew's base 100 attack is pretty bad in modern pokemon and really needs that beefed up coverage it recently got to be threatening. Mew just isn't threatening with blaze kick (85), but can be with flare blitz (120). Not threatening with drill run (80) but can be with earthquake (100). Not threatening with leaf blade (90 and grass:blobnauseated: ) but can be with triple axel (120 and ice :blobthumbsup:). This power drop sucks for any Pokemon but mew already has issues being threatening and this just compounds it, it NEEDS high power moves on an offensive set to break through.

Even worse still, you can't double focus energy and super crit for 3x damage, so if you can ever SD twice you now hit way harder than crit mew. Even if you only SD once the move power differential is so high it doesn't matter.

Not only does the power suck but you are losing the literal only reason you use offensive mew. It has super customizable, high-power coverage for your team. Such a colorful move pool reduced to only the shitty high crit moves. You're telling me you're gonna skip out on CC, gunk shot, brave bird, flare blitz, mega horn, power whip, poltergeist, earthquake, iron tail, and triple axel? These move are all >100 base power and help mew lure and snipe many Pokemon for your team. And some of these moves you'd never run, so you'd better believe most of the high crit moves (the only usable one would be stone edge, and the coverage isn't even super useful for mew) would never even cross my mind.

Also the speed from dd is prob better anyway.
 
Dude is at least thinking outside the box, which I can respect even if it isn’t all that viable. It’s honestly better than having a thread that’s dead most of the week, which this one has been. The golurk post actually sparked some discussion, and it could be useful on some people’s teams (even if it is a bit gimmicky). Gatekeeping what people can post makes newcomers less likely to post, which is detrimental to the long term health of the community.
 
Not to be rude but can we please have some quality control on some of the sets that are being posted in metagame discussion? Golurk being discussed at all, but especially AV, AV tran, and now crit mew. We have a heat thread dedicated to stuff like this.
There's been like three posts in this thread since Wednesday. Don't be a jerk.

The rest of your post was great but the first paragraph was pretty unnecessary. I should know, since 99% of my Smogon comments are just low effort shit posts.

There is no quality control on the sets posted here because it is YOUR job to explain why something does or does not work. It's called a discussion, which is right in the title of this thread.
 
Mew's base 100 attack is pretty bad in modern pokemon and really needs that beefed up coverage it recently got to be threatening.
It's much the same as Tornadus-Therian, Dracozolt or Victini

There a Lot of Coverange that Mew can have on a Swords Dance or Dragon Dance Set:

Poltergeist Hits Slowbro More Harder and it has 87.5% chance to OHKO it after a Swords Dance with Adamant Nature.

Stone Edge can Hit Zapdos hard without having to worry about Static. OHKOes it after a Swords Dance against defensive variants while its offensive variants are OHKOed after a Dragon Dance.

Brave Bird OHKOes Buzzwole and it has 43.8% chance to OHKO Rillaboom (93.8% chance to OHKO with Adamant nature).

Gunk Shot Slays Tapu Koko Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele and Clefable.

And For the Nasty Plot sets:

Scald can inflict burns to Landorus-Therian and Tyranitar.

Sludge Wave hits the pokemon that I mentioned with Gunk Shot.

Earth Power can OHKO Heatran at the same way as Earthquake does after a boost.

Power Gem can OHKO Volcarona after a Calm Mind or Nasty Plot boost and a Tanga Berry allows to take less damage from Bug Buzz and with a Special defense boost.
 
It's much the same as Tornadus-Therian, Dracozolt or Victini

There a Lot of Coverange that Mew can have on a Swords Dance or Dragon Dance Set:

Poltergeist Hits Slowbro More Harder and it has 87.5% chance to OHKO it after a Swords Dance with Adamant Nature.

Stone Edge can Hit Zapdos hard without having to worry about Static. OHKOes it after a Swords Dance against defensive variants while its offensive variants are OHKOed after a Dragon Dance.

Brave Bird OHKOes Buzzwole and it has 43.8% chance to OHKO Rillaboom (93.8% chance to OHKO with Adamant nature).

Gunk Shot Slays Tapu Koko Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele and Clefable.

And For the Nasty Plot sets:

Scald can inflict burns to Landorus-Therian and Tyranitar.

Sludge Wave hits the pokemon that I mentioned with Gunk Shot.

Earth Power can OHKO Heatran at the same way as Earthquake does after a boost.

Power Gem can OHKO Volcarona after a Calm Mind or Nasty Plot boost and a Tanga Berry allows to take less damage from Bug Buzz and with a Special defense boost.
"Its much the same for Tornadus-Therian". who the hell is using physical torn?? plus Victini and Dracozolt make up their low attack stats with high power moves,(bolt beak and v create respectively). dracozolt also provides speed control if you face the 1 person who actually uses it on ladder and victini is a great pivot with turn and encore or some shit like that.

First of all, mew is generally a suicide lead or cosmic power. SD mew is kinda just stupid because you'd rather have the speed boost as well and the targets that you mentioned wont stay in after seeing a mew sd. for example, buzzwole. buzzwole will assume you have a psychic move so brave bird does nothing. this mew also wants alot of moves to hit corv, ferro and basically any bulky steel in the tier.

Nasty plot mew actually seems kinda cool as a revenge killer with weav+kart and a sweeper with vacume wave but still the point still stands. its targets don't like eating a +2 anything, so they end up switching out and the mew becomes useless.
 
Dude is at least thinking outside the box, which I can respect even if it isn’t all that viable. It’s honestly better than having a thread that’s dead most of the week, which this one has been. The golurk post actually sparked some discussion, and it could be useful on some people’s teams (even if it is a bit gimmicky). Gatekeeping what people can post makes newcomers less likely to post, which is detrimental to the long term health of the community.
Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box, but you have to fill the box first. I am all for interesting sets, I am not super competitive about this game myself. But I think in the meta game discussion thread if you post some random set like that crit mew, or some other off meta mon you should be able to write about why you would use that set. Both above other sets and other mons. There is opportunity cost in this game, so crit mew in a vacuum might be functional (at best) but in the actual game you have a set that literally does everything it aims to do but better. I don't think it is a lot to ask to have posts at least somewhat thought about before being made. Like, which post is cooler? One where I post a really heat set, but don't explain why you would use it, and it is so heat it is just worse than other sets, or one where it maybe is just a neat tech, or a straightforward set on a neat mon but I explain its niche and why you would slot it, what match ups it struggles in and what partners are good for it. I feel like the latter is the one we should be striving for in a metagame discussion thread. We have the heat thread for the former and they should go there. Quality over quantity, I don't care if this thread has less activity if it means we aren't discussing the merits of crit mew.

Second of all, just thinking of sets in a vacuum makes you never get better at this game, so forcing people to do some actual thinking about their sets is good for them and make the posts better to read. Even talking about accessibility, if you are a new player and go to the metagame discussion thread and you have no way of separating frankly low effort sets from players who are not very knowledgeable from players with some sort of foundation in the game. Getting bad sets and doing poorly on the ladder as a result is also bad for retention. I think you should be able to go to this thread and get some good sets being used or some neat mons with good sets and how you should use them.

I would like to gatekeep on quality of posts, not necessarily how good a player is. I'm not some supreme showdown player. I'm in the 1600 and 1700s which is something like top 15% or so which is pretty good. Many of the tournament players would frankly say I'm shit at the game, and compared to them I probably am. My opinions are not nearly as informed as theirs and their insight on the metagame makes their posts much better than mine. But at least when I put a post about something I am actually thinking about my set. I think having players have to think about their mon in the meta that surrounds them is what separates this from just being another project heat thread. We already have that so why have them both be the same?
There's been like three posts in this thread since Wednesday. Don't be a jerk.

The rest of your post was great but the first paragraph was pretty unnecessary. I should know, since 99% of my Smogon comments are just low effort shit posts.

There is no quality control on the sets posted here because it is YOUR job to explain why something does or does not work. It's called a discussion, which is right in the title of this thread.
Already addressed this in the above but like I said I think the quality of posts should probably be above project heat which is literally a meme thread. Forcing players to actually think why they would use their set, what partners to put with it and how to pilot it is good for them and the community. Project heat is the thread for hot dropping a drippy set. If the crit mew guy was forced to think why he would use that set over SD or DD he would have immediately thought, "oh damn I'm losing so much power and coverage with this set". I really don't think that's a bad thing and frankly will help players get better. This game is not played in a vacuum it's played in meta (ironically is supposed to be the point of this thread) so you'd better believe I think people should have to explain why their set is better than alternative sets and mons and how the new set or mon fits in the meta. Or we can just turn this thread into project heat 2.

Obviously not every post will be some revolutionary discovery and some sets might be totally outclassed. That could be a decent discussion, but having the person think about their set is really positive for that discussion. Can that discussion really be that interesting if all I have to say as the set is just straight up worse than two you can run and accomplish the same thing? I don't personally think so.

And considering the discussion surrounding why we say "trapping is fundamentally uncompetitive except for on magnezone haha that one is TOTALLY different" was considered so irrelevant it should be deleted, I really don't think that saying crit mew is crossing a line of quality control we probably don't want to cross is that bold of a claim.
 

Heatran @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Burning Jealousy

An Assault Vest Heatran can take special attacks easier from special attackers such as Zapdos and much more. Burning Jealousy is prefered for burning foes such as Hawlucha when it tries to set up with Swords Dance or even when it switches in too. Fire Blast has more power and accuracy than Magma Storm but it lacks trapping opponents

With this set, Heatran is 2HKOed by the opposing Heatran's Earth Power.

0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Heatran: 204-244 (52.8 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Heatran: 248-296 (64.2 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this set actually loses to standard spdef tran because it runs 24 spe evs therefore nabbing kos.
I'd recommend using lefties they are much better but if u really want to run av run:
Heatran @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 232 SpA / 28 Spe
Modest / Calm Nature
also defensive ev sets could be run
Heatran @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 232 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
Heatran @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
These evs work better, guaranteeing u a ko against standard heatran (hp makes it so u land at an odd number)
i mean i do run 28 spe on my tran sets (otherwise just standard but with 248 hp, guarantees odd number and outspeeding other heatran sets even tho i always run no spa evs) so in case u fight someone doing that u might lose
 

Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Focus Energy
- Psycho Cut
- Drill Run / Leaf Blade
- Blaze Kick

I call this CritMew. Focus Energy raises it critical hit ratio and has lot of moves with high critical ratio meaning it can bypass Defense Boosts with its 100% crit chance. Drill Run catches Heatran off guard and OHKOes it on a critical hit. Leaf Blade hits Slowbro and Tapu Fini which are both 2HKOed, however Choice Scarf Tapu Fini has 68.8% chance to be OHKOed after Stealth Rock. Blaze Kick OHKOes Kartana and for a physically defensive Ferrothorn, Blaze Kick must crit or be used under sun to OHKO it, otherwise it will be 2HKOed by it. Psycho Cut is the prefered move since it pairs well after a Focus Energy, it can deal a lot of damage on Psychic Terrain, needing Tapu Lele as a Teammate. Mew likes Wish, Healing Wish or Heal Bell / Aromatherapy Support as well.
no just no please no dd/sd is more consistent, means u dont have to run awful moves to maximize ur strat and is just overall more splashable.
u dont want to run mew as a sweeper tbh apart from demon mew stored power sets it doesnt really have much going for it given its typing and awkward mythical stats
 
Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box, but you have to fill the box first. I am all for interesting sets, I am not super competitive about this game myself. But I think in the meta game discussion thread if you post some random set like that crit mew, or some other off meta mon you should be able to write about why you would use that set. Both above other sets and other mons. There is opportunity cost in this game, so crit mew in a vacuum might be functional (at best) but in the actual game you have a set that literally does everything it aims to do but better. I don't think it is a lot to ask to have posts at least somewhat thought about before being made. Like, which post is cooler? One where I post a really heat set, but don't explain why you would use it, and it is so heat it is just worse than other sets, or one where it maybe is just a neat tech, or a straightforward set on a neat mon but I explain its niche and why you would slot it, what match ups it struggles in and what partners are good for it. I feel like the latter is the one we should be striving for in a metagame discussion thread. We have the heat thread for the former and they should go there. Quality over quantity, I don't care if this thread has less activity if it means we aren't discussing the merits of crit mew.

Second of all, just thinking of sets in a vacuum makes you never get better at this game, so forcing people to do some actual thinking about their sets is good for them and make the posts better to read. Even talking about accessibility, if you are a new player and go to the metagame discussion thread and you have no way of separating frankly low effort sets from players who are not very knowledgeable from players with some sort of foundation in the game. Getting bad sets and doing poorly on the ladder as a result is also bad for retention. I think you should be able to go to this thread and get some good sets being used or some neat mons with good sets and how you should use them.

I would like to gatekeep on quality of posts, not necessarily how good a player is. I'm not some supreme showdown player. I'm in the 1600 and 1700s which is something like top 15% or so which is pretty good. Many of the tournament players would frankly say I'm shit at the game, and compared to them I probably am. My opinions are not nearly as informed as theirs and their insight on the metagame makes their posts much better than mine. But at least when I put a post about something I am actually thinking about my set. I think having players have to think about their mon in the meta that surrounds them is what separates this from just being another project heat thread. We already have that so why have them both be the same?


Already addressed this in the above but like I said I think the quality of posts should probably be above project heat which is literally a meme thread. Forcing players to actually think why they would use their set, what partners to put with it and how to pilot it is good for them and the community. Project heat is the thread for hot dropping a drippy set. If the crit mew guy was forced to think why he would use that set over SD or DD he would have immediately thought, "oh damn I'm losing so much power and coverage with this set". I really don't think that's a bad thing and frankly will help players get better. This game is not played in a vacuum it's played in meta (ironically is supposed to be the point of this thread) so you'd better believe I think people should have to explain why their set is better than alternative sets and mons and how the new set or mon fits in the meta. Or we can just turn this thread into project heat 2.

Obviously not every post will be some revolutionary discovery and some sets might be totally outclassed. That could be a decent discussion, but having the person think about their set is really positive for that discussion. Can that discussion really be that interesting if all I have to say as the set is just straight up worse than two you can run and accomplish the same thing? I don't personally think so.

And considering the discussion surrounding why we say "trapping is fundamentally uncompetitive except for on magnezone haha that one is TOTALLY different" was considered so irrelevant it should be deleted, I really don't think that saying crit mew is crossing a line of quality control we probably don't want to cross is that bold of a claim.
yeah, I think the key though that was being emphasized above is to not be rude about it without seeing the full picture. Some " heat" sets can work wherever the player posting them is at skill-wise, so it's possible they tested Crit mew but on low ladder and it saw success and they are unable to see beyond that. They should be able to post that here, but then be corrected. And I agree they should be held accountable to explain the set, which tbf posting calcs and such shows at least some effort into what the set can accomplish.

A new player likely doesn't know what the good "meta" sets are and why they are meta, but they are still allowed to post here since any one with a smogon account can. If only "good" players were allowed to post sets it would be a very different kind of thread.

A while back for Example I posted a Weavile set, SD taunt ice shard knock as an idea just to see what people would think and look for feedback. The set loses a lot of power but in theory taunt has applications like expediting the toxapex matchup, etc. But overall after seeing the feedback, I moved on from it and quickly figured out myself that I really dislike losing the power of triple axel. But if I had to run a Taunt weavile, i'd probably drop ice shard and pair with scarf lele since the terrain conflict means ice shard won't always be viable anyway, and lele can still revenge kill the stuff ice shard is usually intended to RK, like +1 Dnite etc
 
Like I said this set can make Mew counter Volcarona:

Mew @ Tanga Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Power Gem
- Fire Blast

Or this Physical variant:

Mew @ Tanga Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Stone Edge
- Flare Blitz

However on Offensive Quiver Dance sets they have a speed tie. If Mew can win the speed tie before Volcarona sets up Quiver Dance, Mew can probably OHKO it in return. Dragon Dance will allow Mew outspeed Volcarona.

252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 153-180 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 102-120 (29.8 - 35%) -- 14.1% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Mew Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Volcarona: 516-608 (165.9 - 195.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 280-332 (90 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

+1 252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 420-496 (135 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is the Bulky Quiver Dance calcs:

16 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 127-151 (37.1 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 16 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 190-225 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mew Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 156 Def Volcarona: 420-496 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 280-332 (75 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 420-496 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Like I said this set can make Mew counter Volcarona:

Mew @ Tanga Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Power Gem
- Fire Blast

Or this Physical variant:

Mew @ Tanga Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Stone Edge
- Flare Blitz

However on Offensive Quiver Dance sets they have a speed tie. If Mew can win the speed tie before Volcarona sets up Quiver Dance, Mew can probably OHKO it in return. Dragon Dance will allow Mew outspeed Volcarona.

252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 153-180 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 102-120 (29.8 - 35%) -- 14.1% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Mew Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Volcarona: 516-608 (165.9 - 195.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 280-332 (90 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

+1 252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 420-496 (135 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is the Bulky Quiver Dance calcs:

16 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 127-151 (37.1 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 16 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 190-225 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mew Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 156 Def Volcarona: 420-496 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 280-332 (75 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 420-496 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
after checking volcarona it does jackshit so whats the point of using it? its outclassed by every volcarona check by a mile. Plus, if it qds while ur mew comes in, it still beats it 1v1 making it legit completely useless

252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 188-224 (60.4 - 72%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 226-267 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

if its physical mew it will kill it, however its not doing anything after that so you might as well use tran as tran is actually decently useful outside of using the most horseshit sets ever and killing a mon that is 1) a matchup fish and 2) gets countered by one of the best mons in the tier.

please stop suggesting shit mew sets as they suck and tbh there are more interesting sleeper picks to talk about that can actually provide something besides killing one thing and being useless. There is a reason why ppl use standard mews and not whatever tf ur suggesting
 
And why does Suicide Lead Mew do better than any other sets?
because it provides hazards for a semi-reliable playstyle, being ho, paralyze opposing mons, and depending on the moveset, can get suprise ko's or gain momentum with flare blitz/explosion. Plus its not like lead mew is the only set. demon mew, however rare can legit just 6-0 if no dark or anything that actually threatens it.
 
Hello everybody,

I am new around here and this is my first post. I want to use this opportunity to maybe open up discussion on bulky Mamoswine. I have recently used this set and found some varying success (do keep in mind, however, that I only very recently started taking the game seriously and only have an ELO of 1200)

:mamoswine:
Mamoswine @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

I felt very interested in the amazing offensive typing and the possibility of a mon that can be used as somewhat of an anti-meta pick. It matches up well against Lando, isn't too threatened by most Weavile variants and can, with Thick Fat and the bulk investment, take on quite a lot of Heatran variants. The biggest problems I had were with Melmetal (who can be KO'd with EQ, but that's shaky) and Air Balloon Tran. Kartana can also ruin Mamoswine's day

There was some success with using Mamoswine in conjunction with Volcarona and Crawdaunt. Volcarona takes on Melmetal and Kartana well, whilst Crawdaunt can do well against Heatran. This made the teams I made with Mamoswine mostly Bulky Offense teams that matched up really well against stall and some defensively oriented teams

My success was very inconsistent, however, which I think is more about my lack of teambuilding skills and mistakes in battles, Mamoswine in conjunction with Crawdaunt and Volcarona was pretty consistent

Do you guys see potential in the fella? Also, again, please keep in mind that I am still new to this all, so if I misued some terms or something, just tell me. I have also thought of creating a team and using it in ways to fight off mons that were in the S and A tiers of the VR, I don't know if this is the right way to approach teambuilding tbh :smogduck:
 
Hello everybody,

I am new around here and this is my first post. I want to use this opportunity to maybe open up discussion on bulky Mamoswine. I have recently used this set and found some varying success (do keep in mind, however, that I only very recently started taking the game seriously and only have an ELO of 1200)

:mamoswine:
Mamoswine @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
cool stuff, think its pretty standard looking https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/mamoswine/ou/
please do run knock off over rock slide though its just an overall better move, the set might be better if u ev it for specific situations and against slow, unthreathening or switched-in mons it will prolly work very well
 
cool stuff, think its pretty standard looking https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/mamoswine/ou/
please do run knock off over rock slide though its just an overall better move, the set might be better if u ev it for specific situations and against slow, unthreathening or switched-in mons it will prolly work very well
Thank you for the advice! I actually didn't know it was standard

I have started out with using Knock, but I felt that my Crawdaunt with its STAB Knock was good enough, whilst the offensive potential of a strong rock type move in combination with the flinch chance was very valuable for my uses
 
Thank you for the advice! I actually didn't know it was standard

I have started out with using Knock, but I felt that my Crawdaunt with its STAB Knock was good enough, whilst the offensive potential of a strong rock type move in combination with the flinch chance was very valuable for my uses
oh ok but the recommended set should be the more splashable version of your set
 
Latias (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Healing Wish / Trick
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Aura Sphere / Mystical Fire

This is the same Choice Specs set from SM (the previous generation), but with a twist: Having Aura Sphere and Mystical Fire.
 

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