Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

Like I said this set can make Mew counter Volcarona:

Mew @ Tanga Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Power Gem
- Fire Blast

Or this Physical variant:

Mew @ Tanga Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Stone Edge
- Flare Blitz

However on Offensive Quiver Dance sets they have a speed tie. If Mew can win the speed tie before Volcarona sets up Quiver Dance, Mew can probably OHKO it in return. Dragon Dance will allow Mew outspeed Volcarona.

252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 153-180 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 102-120 (29.8 - 35%) -- 14.1% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Mew Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Volcarona: 516-608 (165.9 - 195.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 280-332 (90 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

+1 252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 420-496 (135 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is the Bulky Quiver Dance calcs:

16 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 127-151 (37.1 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 16 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 190-225 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mew Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 156 Def Volcarona: 420-496 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 280-332 (75 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 420-496 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

Amstan

beebadoobea
is a Tiering Contributor
Like I said this set can make Mew counter Volcarona:

Mew @ Tanga Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Power Gem
- Fire Blast

Or this Physical variant:

Mew @ Tanga Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Stone Edge
- Flare Blitz

However on Offensive Quiver Dance sets they have a speed tie. If Mew can win the speed tie before Volcarona sets up Quiver Dance, Mew can probably OHKO it in return. Dragon Dance will allow Mew outspeed Volcarona.

252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 153-180 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 102-120 (29.8 - 35%) -- 14.1% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Mew Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Volcarona: 516-608 (165.9 - 195.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 280-332 (90 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

+1 252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 420-496 (135 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is the Bulky Quiver Dance calcs:

16 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 127-151 (37.1 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 16 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 190-225 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mew Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 156 Def Volcarona: 420-496 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 280-332 (75 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 420-496 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
after checking volcarona it does jackshit so whats the point of using it? its outclassed by every volcarona check by a mile. Plus, if it qds while ur mew comes in, it still beats it 1v1 making it legit completely useless

252 SpA Mew Power Gem vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 188-224 (60.4 - 72%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tanga Berry Mew: 226-267 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

if its physical mew it will kill it, however its not doing anything after that so you might as well use tran as tran is actually decently useful outside of using the most horseshit sets ever and killing a mon that is 1) a matchup fish and 2) gets countered by one of the best mons in the tier.

please stop suggesting shit mew sets as they suck and tbh there are more interesting sleeper picks to talk about that can actually provide something besides killing one thing and being useless. There is a reason why ppl use standard mews and not whatever tf ur suggesting
 

Amstan

beebadoobea
is a Tiering Contributor
And why does Suicide Lead Mew do better than any other sets?
because it provides hazards for a semi-reliable playstyle, being ho, paralyze opposing mons, and depending on the moveset, can get suprise ko's or gain momentum with flare blitz/explosion. Plus its not like lead mew is the only set. demon mew, however rare can legit just 6-0 if no dark or anything that actually threatens it.
 
Hello everybody,

I am new around here and this is my first post. I want to use this opportunity to maybe open up discussion on bulky Mamoswine. I have recently used this set and found some varying success (do keep in mind, however, that I only very recently started taking the game seriously and only have an ELO of 1200)

:mamoswine:
Mamoswine @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

I felt very interested in the amazing offensive typing and the possibility of a mon that can be used as somewhat of an anti-meta pick. It matches up well against Lando, isn't too threatened by most Weavile variants and can, with Thick Fat and the bulk investment, take on quite a lot of Heatran variants. The biggest problems I had were with Melmetal (who can be KO'd with EQ, but that's shaky) and Air Balloon Tran. Kartana can also ruin Mamoswine's day

There was some success with using Mamoswine in conjunction with Volcarona and Crawdaunt. Volcarona takes on Melmetal and Kartana well, whilst Crawdaunt can do well against Heatran. This made the teams I made with Mamoswine mostly Bulky Offense teams that matched up really well against stall and some defensively oriented teams

My success was very inconsistent, however, which I think is more about my lack of teambuilding skills and mistakes in battles, Mamoswine in conjunction with Crawdaunt and Volcarona was pretty consistent

Do you guys see potential in the fella? Also, again, please keep in mind that I am still new to this all, so if I misued some terms or something, just tell me. I have also thought of creating a team and using it in ways to fight off mons that were in the S and A tiers of the VR, I don't know if this is the right way to approach teambuilding tbh :smogduck:
 
Hello everybody,

I am new around here and this is my first post. I want to use this opportunity to maybe open up discussion on bulky Mamoswine. I have recently used this set and found some varying success (do keep in mind, however, that I only very recently started taking the game seriously and only have an ELO of 1200)

:mamoswine:
Mamoswine @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
cool stuff, think its pretty standard looking https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/mamoswine/ou/
please do run knock off over rock slide though its just an overall better move, the set might be better if u ev it for specific situations and against slow, unthreathening or switched-in mons it will prolly work very well
 
cool stuff, think its pretty standard looking https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/mamoswine/ou/
please do run knock off over rock slide though its just an overall better move, the set might be better if u ev it for specific situations and against slow, unthreathening or switched-in mons it will prolly work very well
Thank you for the advice! I actually didn't know it was standard

I have started out with using Knock, but I felt that my Crawdaunt with its STAB Knock was good enough, whilst the offensive potential of a strong rock type move in combination with the flinch chance was very valuable for my uses
 
Thank you for the advice! I actually didn't know it was standard

I have started out with using Knock, but I felt that my Crawdaunt with its STAB Knock was good enough, whilst the offensive potential of a strong rock type move in combination with the flinch chance was very valuable for my uses
oh ok but the recommended set should be the more splashable version of your set
 
Latias (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Healing Wish / Trick
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Aura Sphere / Mystical Fire

This is the same Choice Specs set from SM (the previous generation), but with a twist: Having Aura Sphere and Mystical Fire.
 
Latias (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Healing Wish / Trick
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Aura Sphere / Mystical Fire

This is the same Choice Specs set from SM (the previous generation), but with a twist: Having Aura Sphere and Mystical Fire.
why would you even do this
what is wrong with you are you just shitposting
edit yh that was rude
 
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I don't mean to be rude, but these set specific posts belong in the heat sub-forum, not the metagame discussion thread. As the name implies this forum is dedicated to metagame discussion, not set posting on mass. I encourage those of you contributing to go post there, but this isn't the intended use of this thread and should really stop.
 
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I dont even see that much of a problem with "heat" sets being posted here, mostly because the heat thread feels more like a set dump to me and not really something where people discuss what's being posted.

Like the Scyther saga from last week actually had some insightful responses about the intial post and how you could try to run the mon to get mileage out of it.

The main difference was that that post had a detailed explanation about the set (even though the set as a whole was questionable), rather than a single line about how it was a common moveset in a previous gen.

I doubt people really mind heat sets posted here, but I think Hyper Go Ons is just posting too frequently about weird sets that it becomes a bit annoying.

Gonna echo a post made before and say that just because you can make a set, it doesnt mean you should. Try to think more about why you would run a heat set, what role it accomplishes (both in a vacuum and on a team) and if there's simply not a better alternative out there before posting it here.

If a seemingly bad set work well specifically on the team you made, post the team and explain why it works well in there!

As an example, I often run Leafeon on my sun teams. This isn't because it's a good sun sweeper as mono grass is a horendous offensive type. It's pretty middling and doesn't sweep very well. Rather, it's there because it holds a Power Herb and has Dig, allowing it to lure in Heatran and remove it from the game. This sets up the rest of the team to clean up with sun boosted Fire moves because the only viable Fire immunity has been taken out.
 
I simply don't think these sets reflect the current meta nor do they reflect an informed player's understanding of the current meta - as certain heat sets tend to do - by responding to popular & exploitable trends. The last few pages have been noise, as far as I'm concerned.

Here's a more relevant question: what's the read on the mandatory Ground-type for a team? I remember Gastro surging in usage last month, and more Excadrill on sand, but do most players still just slap a Lando on BO and call it a day?
 
As an example, I often run Leafeon on my sun teams. This isn't because it's a good sun sweeper as mono grass is a horendous offensive type. It's pretty middling and doesn't sweep very well. Rather, it's there because it holds a Power Herb and has Dig, allowing it to lure in Heatran and remove it from the game. This sets up the rest of the team to clean up with sun boosted Fire moves because the only viable Fire immunity has been taken out.
At +2 Power Herb Solar Blade (62 bp due to sand) can OHKO Tyranitar so its uses aren't strictly limited to Dig. It also works as a general desperation move if you can't keep the sun up to allow Leafeon one last strike. Dig can also pop Bisharp, Magnezone, and Melmetal.

Pretty neat tech!
 
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Here's a more relevant question: what's the read on the mandatory Ground-type for a team? I remember Gastro surging in usage last month, and more Excadrill on sand, but do most players still just slap a Lando on BO and call it a day?
My go-to ground is still Garchomp because it adds a fire resist that Lando lacks, making it a more consistent answer to Heatran and Volcarona. It is weaker to Koko, although with koko now opting for Nature's Madness a bit more often it's not as bad. Plus you can get some rough skin chip if you read an incoming U-turn correctly.
Also lando-t is ugly

Lando's still the best general use ground mon in the tier, as it can do almost any role really well. Rocks, Defog, Knock, Toxic, HO lead, etc. The other grounds are more specific in their use. Chomp offers more speed and sweeping potential and has better options for lure/trap sets with moves like Fire Blast or Whirlpool, Hippo and Gastrodon are more fat walls that are bigger momentum drains which make them harder to fit on certain structures. Excadrill is basically tied to sand imo, I've never really felt like a sandless Drill posed any threat to my teams.

To me, the big thing that sets Lando apart from the other grounds is it's access to U-turn. Chomp is an ok pivot, but often teams have answers for it so you'll have to read a switch correctly to maintain a favourable position. Hippo and Gastro just sit there, and I have no real experience with using Drill.


At +2 Power Herb Solar Blade (62 bp due to sand) can OHKO Tyranitar so its uses aren't strictly limited to Dig. It also works as a general desperation move if you can't keep the sun up to allow Leafeon one last strike. Dig can also pop Bisharp, Magnezone, and Melmetal.

Pretty neat tech!
Oh yeah Leafeon can be used for non-heatran mons too, it's definitely not that it only deals with heatran and is a sitting duck outside of that, maybe I worded the paragraph poorly. STAB Solar Blade can still dent things, even resists, at +2, and it gets access to Knock too which is nice. It can lure in other steels like you mentioned if Heatran is absent but usually they get fried to a crisp anyway because it's a sun team and nothing really takes specs eruptions during sun too well.
 
Here's a more relevant question: what's the read on the mandatory Ground-type for a team? I remember Gastro surging in usage last month, and more Excadrill on sand, but do most players still just slap a Lando on BO and call it a day?
I hate hate Lando-T, so I'm using different grounds. Excadrill is a nice one. It completely shuts down Tapu Koko, and with Toxic it also makes progress against incoming Zapdos/Slowbro/Buzzwole. Rapid Spin is great on spikes team where removing your own hazards is annoying. Its 4x resistance to SR and immunity to Toxik Spikes means as long as spikes are off the field, it will heal on switch-in with its lefties. As an added bonus, it's a great switch-in to Banded Stone Edge from Tyranitar too, and it can serve as an emergency speed control when facing sand teams.
 
I believe that the "species clause" should NOT apply to both the original pokemon and their regional forms.

the regional forms are different than the originals therefore they should be treated as separate species.

there are cases where the regionals feel nothing like the originals. like in zapdos and galarian zapdos.

also there is one extreem case of the pokemon scyther and scizor which makes you question:what even is a different species?

scyther is one of the few if not the only pokemon whose evolved form has the exact same stat total.
so let's do a thought experiment:

you are transfered in a universe where scyther never received an evolution, and scizor is just its regional form named "galarian scyther", also there is a scyther-exclusive item that boosts its defences by 50% just like the eviolite.

in that universe it would be against the rules to include both of these pokemon in the same team although the game would not breake any more than it would break now, and now it is not broken at all.

also keep in mind that right now it is against the rules to include mr.mime on the same team with its galarian form but it is okay to include it in the same team with mr.rime.

I really don't see any reason to treat the regionals as one and the same as the originals.
maybe if the regionals changed nothing other than their appearance then I would agree with the clause but they always change their stats ability and in most cases their typying.
 
I feel inclined to agree with Soi, but I never saw an argument for species ban on regional forms. I can imagine that the opinion is that it would overcomplicate the ruleset, but a simple exception subrole would be pretty self explanatory. Something like "As regional forms are vastly different from their regular forms, they are considered as their own species. As such, regional and regular forms of the same Pokemon can be used on the same team."
 
I simply don't think these sets reflect the current meta nor do they reflect an informed player's understanding of the current meta - as certain heat sets tend to do - by responding to popular & exploitable trends. The last few pages have been noise, as far as I'm concerned.

Here's a more relevant question: what's the read on the mandatory Ground-type for a team? I remember Gastro surging in usage last month, and more Excadrill on sand, but do most players still just slap a Lando on BO and call it a day?
It all depends on the kind of team you are going for, bearing in mind what you need by teambuilding standards such as momentum, immediate power, role compression, and synergy. Landorus is the most splashable for a reason, being the coveted ground and electric-type immunity that manages a wide variety of threats and has utility such as Stealth Rock, Defog, Knock Off, and U-Turn.

Likewise, other ground-types have similar benefits they offer to teams. Gastrodon rose in popularity as a response to Rotom-W, Heatran, Nidoking, Volcanion and rain, in addition to conveniently answering other specially offensive threats thanks to its reliable recovery. Hippowdown also possesses reliable recovery, in addition to Stealth Rock and Sand Stream which are very valuable.

Garchomp has contact effects, a larger coverage and set pool, and the ability to better check Heatran, Volcarona, Victini, and Blacephalon thanks to a fire-type resistance. Although it is worse at checking fighting-types, and can't handle Tapu Koko.

Excadrill's access to Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin, steel typing, and Sand Rush ability make it a valuable sand member. However, it is very archetype specific and rarely fits on anything outside of sand.

Nidoking is a great offensive threat in its own right but is very matchup specific, role specific, and as a ground-type, rather frail. It fits specifically on offensive and balance teams that can complement its inability to really capitalize defensively on its ground-typing.
 
Excadrill's access to Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin, steel typing, and Sand Rush ability make it a valuable sand member. However, it is very archetype specific and rarely fits on anything outside of sand.
However, Sand Force Boosts Excadrill's STAB Moves and Rock type moves in Sandstorm, but it doesn't boost its speed.
 

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