Couldn’t you in theory run a core of Urshifu-S and Melmetal and overload those checks?
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Kyurem-black started using roost + dd and if you mis-predict this beast destroy you 6-0.
This set is particularly overwhelming vs HO or bulky offense without melmetal, it forces unhealthy 50-50s because if you make a wrong move or switch it can accumulate multiple DDs with its bulk + roost and get out of control very quickly.
Kyurem-black is the epithet of the word "unhealthy" at the moment.
Melmetal, on the other hand, it's not even remotely broken as kyurem or zygarde, it has well defined checks and it is slow asf out of trick room.
Trick room is not broken neither, it is an archetype with a lot of flaws even with the addition of melmetal.
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The great thing about natural cure Blissey is it can, depending on how your opponent plays it, win a 1 v 1 (especially if they switch in) while still having good health. Though, I've been seeing CB Zygarde come back lately and that mon is broken as hell. Blissey can't beat that but it usually can set it up for a revenge kill.
Wicked Blow easily 2hko's max Def Moltres unless you get a burn on the first hit. Banded sets still have a chance to 2hko if you get the burn.
Idk about Melmetal. It does have some hard counters, but it will absolutely demolish most things that aren't one of those counters. First match I played post dlc2 was against someone using Melmetal and I had a bulky mon with max hp/def investment in against it and neutral iron bash did 96%. I basically haven't played a match without physically defensive Moltres on my team since. I'm not worried at all about a ban/suspect for it until they banish the hell out of Kyurem-b (maybe not all, idk), but Melmetal is still pretty annoying in team builder. I think its horrible special bulk and speed might make it fine in the long run, but I could see it getting a suspect test at some point.
Ive been seeing some Kyurem-b running Dual Wingbeat to just tear right through Buzzwole. It really feels like a lot of playstyles just have to run Magearna or Melmetal or they're going to get obliterated by Kyu. Its even more obnoxious with screens. I find it more egregious than Zygarde. Zygarde's versatility makes it more difficult to truly hard counter, but I don't put that much effort to countering it in team builder and I usually feel like I have counterplay options to at least mitigate the damage it does and not get completely wrecked by it. Sure, a good player with Zygarde is going to get a lot of mileage out of it and it absolutely might just be too good and need to go, but I at least find playing against it interesting most of the time and it usually doesn't leave me feeling bad about the gameplay experience unless they get some crazy para hax or something. Probably 2/3 of the games I've played since DLC2 that left a bad tasted in mouth or have just felt pointless and uninteresting have been because of Kyu-b.
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Yes, I forgot that with screens up (which are extremely easy to set up thanks to regieleki/koko) kyurem black is a nightmare even more, I agree that Zygarde needs para hax to overwhelm the opponent , while Kyurem can just win with a bit of support with its raw bulk and power.
Ridiculous mon and as you stated It's also somewhat unpredictable because with earth power it can annihilate heatran for example.
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt / Dual Wingbeat / Icicle Spear
- Scale Shot
I swept teams with this. Kyurem Black is one of the best users of Scale Shot I have ever seen - It hits 475 speed which is enough to outpace everything including Pheromosa but not Regieleki trying to revenge kill you.
This set is obviously played differently compared to Dragon Dance Sets, but nonetheless it showcases its absurd power and flexibility.
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt / Dual Wingbeat / Icicle Spear
- Scale Shot
I swept teams with this. Kyurem Black is one of the best users of Scale Shot I have ever seen - It hits 475 speed which is enough to outpace everything including Pheromosa but not Regieleki trying to revenge kill you.
This set is obviously played differently compared to Dragon Dance Sets, but nonetheless it showcases its absurd power and flexibility.
That set literally gets walled by Melmetal lol. You're going to be using Spear and Bolt but no coverage for Melmetal leaves you hard walled and whatever you switch in is taking Double Iron Bash.
Roftl, we all are agree that Melmelat wall kyurem-b with that set, It's not a secret, in my post I wrote that Kyurem destroys most of the teams "without" melmetal, but even vs melmetal you cannot be safe vs kyurem because more sets started popping out and other teammates can take care of melmetal very well.
I don't undersand why "walled by melmetal" should be an excuse for not considering kyurem broken.
So what if Melmetal walls kyurem-black most of the time? Every Pokémon has checks, hell even zacian c has checks. Very few Pokémon can stand up to kyurem black and it’ll be extremely centralizing forcing every team to run something like Melmetal, which is why many people are advocating for it to be banned
Don't forget that Kyurem Black can just hit it on the switch until it's in range. Even though you admittedly don't do very much damage with Fusion Bolt and Earth Power is like a 3HKO on Max HP variants, it's lack of recovery means that you will break it in the long run if they are not packing Wish support. You can run Ferrothorn as a partner punishing Double Iron Bash (watch out for Superpower) while also laying down Spikes for Kyurem-B to take advantage of to wear down it's checks until they can no longer act as such. It also gives a good switch in to Dragon, Fairy, and Rock attacks aimed towards Kyurem-B. Of course that does give weaknesses to fighting, but that can be patched up with a good Fairy, Psychic, Flying, or Ghost type, of which there are plenty of viable options
I personally think that AV Bulu is a great mon for multiple reasons:
1- Bulu has great bulk on the physical side. Give it AV and it becomes a bulky mon overall.
2- With STAB Grassy Terrain boosted Horn Leech and the recovery from the terrain itself, Bulu can easily recover the HP it loses from tanking hits and has longevity because of these two reasons.
3- Bulu’s typing gives it key resistances to water, ground, electric, grass, dark, fighting, and an immunity to dragon.
4- Bulu’s movepool is great. It has access to Horn Leech, CC, High Horsepower, Stone Edge, Megahorn, Zen Headbutt and more. If you come in with Bulu to take a hit and you predict your opponent to switch into a mon to threaten you, you can go for any of your other strong moves to deal damage. (Horsepower for Heatran, Stone Edge for Zapdos or Tornadus, etc...)
I have not experimented with it to this point but the downside to Bulu is I'm not sure what it's mainly aimed to check. AV Bulu has always struggled with recovery and with the predominance of Fire and Steel types in the meta currently it struggles to get on the field and maintain momentum. Specs Spectrier is the best special attacker right now imo and Bulu doesn't switch in particularly well.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Spectrier Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 117-138 (34.1 - 40.2%) -- 36.8% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Without its best mon to counterplay in Ash-Gren, I don't think it is worth using over other Grass types such as Tangrowth, Amoonguss, or Rillaboom.
Rillaboom does a lot of what Bulu does but better IMO. It gets Superpower, EQ, U-turn, and has Grassy Glide like Bulu, and with a choice band, Rillaboom is just better in my experience.
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave / Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled
I have been experimenting with various random 4th moves on Clefable and my current favorite is Heal Bell with Magic Guard. Having a cleric allows you to make much riskier plays, for example in this game I immediately go for knock on pex with Scizor because I know I can remove a scald burn later (game also shows a good example of why boots hippo is decent) I think Knock Off goes nicely with this set but my team needed a rocker too so feel free to customize. T-Wave also would work on my Clef because I have a Hex Drag. Heal Bell also makes Glare Zygarde a bit less awful to play against. There's so many mons with random 4th slot toxic like drill, heatran and zapdos that you'll appreciate being able to end their attempts at making long term progress.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1218652581-dw2qaz1yrcxk062n8q24uc57a71vsjopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1219274685-aqbzksk1luo01ljvk2uxkgvmfxhs0kppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1219969933-f4rjmof56o7irvmolo46p2lm8rafptcpw
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Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
- Scorching Sands
A set that I have been used. Toxic hits every ground types bar nidiking and excadrill(which blue flare hits very hard anyways). The only counter to this set is probably blissey and chansey, so you may change blue flare to v create and become a mix set instead.
Why not just use GKnot over toxic?
Katy
Banned deucer.
Grass Knot will not do much to Excadrill and Nidoking as first of all its neutral anyway and second of all, Grass Knot counts in the weight of a Pokemon, and since Excadrill and Nidoking aren't that heavy, the damage will be not that high:
252 SpA Victini Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 92-109 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- 43.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Victini Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Excadrill: 56-67 (15.5 - 18.5%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Victini Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 78-92 (21.6 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Furthermore it hits Excadrill already anyway for super-effective damage output with its Fire-stab attacks like V-Create or Blue Flare (whatever the poster of this set decides to go for) and both attacks are an OHKO on Excadrill. It can also hit Nidoking and Excadrill with Scorching Sands, which might find its way as a great mid-ground play on mixed or special Victini-Sets, which run Heavy-Duty Boots.
Toxic is a great choice to hit Zygarde and reduce its longevity a lot by putting it on a timer. I think a great Choice could also be Glaciate, since it will hit Lando-T and Zygarde for 4x Damage, Finchinator ran such a set and it worked great.
I hate this mon. I think it would just be overcentralizing but not even unhealthy if it didn't have glare. If you toxic switches and wear them down over the course of the game, good for you. But praying to RNGesus when you click sub glare is just terrible to play against. The pro con comparison to last gen is that now you have infiltrator dragapult and zarude who can check it (Zarude is basically a counter). The con is that HP Ice is gone, meaning you easily 1v1 most of its gen 7 checks (meaning imo it has gained far more than it has lost this gen). There's too many sets and it's just too consistent at whatever you want it to do.
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Using Grudge instead of using Draco Meteor that can bypass Zyg's Substitute? Yeah, sure, let it live instead of OHKO it when you really can.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 434-512 (106.6 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 396-468 (97.2 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after one Substitute)
252+ SpA Life Orb Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 374-445 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after one Substitute)
252 SpA Life Orb Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 343-406 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (guaranteed after one Substitute)
252+ SpA Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 288-342 (70.7 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (68.8% chance to OHKO after one Substitute)
252 SpA Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 264-312 (64.8 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (12.5% chance to OHKO after one Substitute)
EDIT: Added Life Orb Calcs
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I haven't touched competitive Pokemon in 2 generations, but now with DLC2, this generation looks interesting enough to get back into. I've always been a fan of Rain teams, and they seem pretty viable now after just glancing at some of the new Pokemon and moves like Barraskewda, Urshifu-Water, and Flip Turn.
Is there a basic template or sample for Rain teams post-DLC2, or is the meta still being worked out? I'd assume Pelipper, Barraskewda, and some Electric immune/resist like Thunderus-I or Ferro are essential, but outside of that, I know nothing. Crawdaunt looks viable, but I'm also extremely biased towards that guy.
Is there a basic template or sample for Rain teams post-DLC2, or is the meta still being worked out? I'd assume Pelipper, Barraskewda, and some Electric immune/resist like Thunderus-I or Ferro are essential, but outside of that, I know nothing. Crawdaunt looks viable, but I'm also extremely biased towards that guy.
You need 2+ electric inmunity/resist bc Koko + Eleki cores are everywere (especially with ring target support)
Swampert can work as give Sthealth rock + flip turn + spdef is great rn.
You only need 1. Regieleki really isn't that good (or even that common anymore) that you need 2 whole pokemon to counter it.
In my opinion the greatest quality of special Victini is that it lures Ground types, because of that I think Grass Knot (or Energy Ball) and Glaciate are nearly mandatory. If you pair it with Regieleki you can give a nasty surprise to people who relied on their Landorus or Swampert to check Regieleki. Fourth slot is fairly versatile, Thunder has the best overall coverage but Psychic, Focus Blast and Scorching Sands all have their perks. Expert Belt is a good item to hit harder and fake Choice (which Boots wouldn't be able to do).
How is everyone opinion on zygarde, since its slapable on so many teams, it can run so many sets from the standard coil sub glare, to dragon dance WP on screens. With the removal of Hp ice and the tapu's seeing less and less usage, I can safely say that zygarde is banworthy and has very limited checks, it can setup on most mons, it can beat stall up via 101 hp subs and glare. Zygarde can also be paired with toxic spikes since nothing wants to absorb them when zygarde can t arrow them into oblivion