Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[Fluxnorg]

Spdef Lando has utility beyond Volcarona like Koko and Pex runs mixed spreads for scouting Dragapult pretty much constantly (max physdef is a waste of evs), nothing is lost from these pokemon attempting to check Volcarona. They're also far from unreliable as well given a Volc cant be both offensive and Bulkarona at the same time. you can easily adjust your gameplan by working out the volc variant at preview, since Bulkarona allows for more offensive counterplay overall via a reduced speed tier and offensive volc is so reliant on teammates paving the way for it to be able to handle its many checks. its not like its just them, Urshifu Rapid, Blissey, Garchomp, Dragonite, Heatran, Unaware clef, and other random stuff function as fine checks or counters to both sets.

As for Weavile, i wasn't suggesting this. I was saying that both of your examples for pokemon that Weavile pushed down are incorrect or at the very least had plenty of other factors contribute to their downfall. Slowbro started dying off pretty much the second Ace went and Rillaboom is an rker to Weavile if anything, given it needs solid chip to kill with shard and not die to Glide. Toxapex rising was inevitable regardless given its an infinitely better wall than Slowking and the metagame is very cruel to futureport reliant builds atm with stuff aside from Weav, like Kartana, Mew, Hazard spam, and just a general inclination towards a more offensive pace. Tapu fini did rise partially due to the rise of Dark spam though yea, same with Wole, but good pokemon rising to cause a disrupt in the meta isn't grounds for viewing them as bannable. I know you didn't say this and i'm sure this wasn't the intention but honestly that's what putting Weavile here feels like to me, a pokemon that rose up to disrupt a common trend and so new trends arose to combat it.

When I brought up Lando-T, the main point I was trying to emphasize was having to sacrifice either Knock Off or Toxic for Stone Edge and not Physical bulk for Special bulk bad writing on my part. And as for Pex, it has to run SpD Haze which admittedly isn’t too big of a sacrifice although it does still have a more difficult time checking some potent Physical threats.

I mentioned Weavile partly out of bias to be honest, it’s one of the most fun mons to use for me. I admittedly jumped the gun on this one since it is a fairly new beneficiary of the meta and I didn’t give the meta a fair shot to adapt.

 

[xXxJenniferxXx]

I mean honestly, if we're talking about the metagame going into a better state...

Smogon set the precedent for banning core mechanics and deviating from the cartridge games by getting rid of Dynamax, I'd wager we should talk about the possibility of getting rid of RNG for good in OU, and the rest of Smogon singles for that matter, but no one's ready for that conversation.

 

[OneSmogonCopyer]

I mean honestly, if we're talking about the metagame going into a better state...

Smogon set the precedent for banning core mechanics and deviating from the cartridge games by getting rid of Dynamax, I'd wager we should talk about the possibility of getting rid of RNG for good in OU, and the rest of Smogon singles for that matter, but no one's ready for that conversation.

Guess we going to remove *checks notes* moves with less than 100% accuracy, items that can boost evasion, kings rock, quick claw, razor fang, lucky punch, crits, and moves with secondary effects so we can have a truly, truly true utopia

 

[xXxJenniferxXx]

Guess we going to remove *checks notes* moves with less than 100% accuracy, items that can boost evasion, kings rock, quick claw, razor fang, lucky punch, crits, and moves with secondary effects so we can have a truly, truly true utopia

I mean it doesn't have to be a complete cluster like that.

Like, let's take Thunder Wave for example.
Instead of the speed reduction + the chance to randomly miss, it could be just the speed reduction and stuff like that.

By RNG I mean literally random, not set debuffs and not lower accuracy.

 

[OneSmogonCopyer]

I mean it doesn't have to be a complete cluster like that.
Like let's take Thunder Wave for example.

Instead of the speed reduction + the chance to randomly miss, it could be just the speed reduction, and stuff like that

I mean... even though I'd want that, that requires an overhaul on a lot of moves. Plus what's with the arbitrary changes to moves? It sounds like a pain to do this for every single move that exist under the umbrella. I hate thunder wave as well with its para chance and my god I hate it. I think a better solution to this would just be to ban the items that you deem unfair. While smogon I agree has deviated core game mechanics in Dynamax, since I believe it is quite a bs mechanic and deserved to be banned since it's just not fun, being close to the games as much as possible should still be tried to be achieved. Or at the very least, possible to happen in games. You cant stop from being para'd or getting critted for example in the cartridge, but you can stop yourself from Dynamaxing.

Not saying the suggestion is bad. Its just if we are gonna change something, it should be possible to do on 6v6 cartridge

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I mean honestly, if we're talking about the metagame going into a better state...

Smogon set the precedent for banning core mechanics and deviating from the cartridge games by getting rid of Dynamax, I'd wager we should talk about the possibility of getting rid of RNG for good in OU, and the rest of Smogon singles for that matter, but no one's ready for that conversation.

Instead of the speed reduction + the chance to randomly miss, it could be just the speed reduction and stuff like that.

That's not how this works.

Banning dynamax doesn't actually change the game. It just means both players agree to not press the big red button that says "dynamax". You can't agree to not full para, because that's just how paralysis works. Actually changing how things work means we're no longer playing Pokemon. We're playing a fangame.

 

[ausma]

Let's please try to keep the discussion thread from derailing into a thread about policy semantics, as it dives into a deeper discussion that impacts more than just OU, and deviates from the purpose of this thread. If you'd like to discuss the matter further, I suggest doing it in private messages or instead bring it up with council members as necessary. Thank you!

 

[Ctann]

Metagame is too stable, people want interesting and overwhelming things in OU to debate again!

—

Some thoughts



dragapult is the closest thing to overwhelming there is.. fortunately despite it being strong, it’s incredibly easy to build a counter-play technique. Could it be argued that there’s still grounds to suspect it? What mostly bothers me is that it’s too effortless with what it does, at least the other super fast threat, zeraora, has less options and can’t play around it’s switch ins as much.

An idea of how close this is to overwhelming.. if something as insignificant as shadow ball still had a 10% chance of a SpDef drop, this would be so much less headache.. meanwhile imagine shadow ball had a 30% chance to drop sp def, dragapult likely would have been banned by now!



the other candidate for almost over whelming would be heatran. Understandably offensive teams don’t mind it too much, but it kinda feels wrong that a Pokémon can be so punishing. There are very few ways to take advantage of its predictability, without using non-optimal techniques, like momentum sinks. For example if you’re using a heatran and notice dragonet is bugging you a lot, you can run Pokémon that get an opportunity to come in on it, and the dragonet user can’t really double switch out :(

if you’re using heatran, once you get an opening, the ball is in your court and you call the momentum for at least 3 turns! That’s a big deal when heatran is also excellent outside of spamming magmastorm.


unfortunately, naturally it means if heatran goes, volcarona might inevitably hit the suspect worthy list as well.. since dragonite and tyranitar are much easier to wear or take advantage of. Even spDef Tyranitar can be beaten with big buzz from about 50%, dragonite straight loses to bulkarona if it’s taken even minor damage or has a 51% chance to be crippled if it risks the dual wingbeat, but heatran will wall it even at 30% and can wall it with as little as 15-20% if it’s leftovers haven’t been knocked off yet.

And what does that leave for viable fire types in OU? Victini and maybe moltres? At least grass types like Tangrowth might enjoy the dismissal of OUs two premium fires.

—


Despite the above commentary, I don’t think any of those are even 80% comparable to magearna or Cinderace. Those were definitely in a different league of metagame warping. The magearna ban in particular was super welcome, that Pokémon is just too good for OU.

 

[IBZ]

If I'm being honest, I don't think anything is outright broken or even overly restricting in the teambuilder atm.
idk maybe I'm missing something here but I find that most mons can be dealt with using other viable mons.
Like sure Kyurem is a bitch but blissey and scizor and heatran all exist and fit on a wide variety of builds.
The same could be said about a lot of the mons mentioned in this discussion.
'Like sure [Strong mon] is a bitch but [viable checks and counters] all exist and fit on a wide variety of builds'
Even for mons that everyone seems to be complaining about, like pult, there's always fini who's been rising in popularity recently, along with blissey, spdef hippo and rocks. And ofc, offensive counterplay to pult is obviously not an issue, with zeraora, scarf fini, weavile, bisharp and probably more that I can't think of being popular rn.
I'm not the first person to say this but, I feel like some of you aren't even considering counterplay to some of the mons you're complaining about.
Ofc if something is genuinely problematic there's no harm in calling that out. But in this case, there are just some good mons that you need to be prepared for, and who's checks and counters are viable and also strong vs other mons. I'm not saying you guys are lazy and can't be bothered to deal with strong mons appropriately. I'm saying the counterplay exists, but I don't think you're recognising that, resulting in certain mons appearing to be problematic.

 

[TailGlowVM]

I'd like to talk about an underrated Pokemon in SS OU, Glastrier.

You probably all saw it a bit in the new toy hype of early DLC2, and got disappointed by its horrible speed and bad defensive typing, which is why despite its enormous stats it now resides in NU. While undercut somewhat by its weaknesses, Glastrier has the sheer bulk (physically greater than even Tangrowth) to take some ridiculous stuff, for example:
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Smart Strike vs 252 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 354-416 (87.6 - 102.9%) - 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs 252 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) - 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 4 SpD Glastrier: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Shadow Ball does 45% max)
252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs 252 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 188-222 (46.5 - 54.9%) - 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
80 SpA Slowking-Galar Flamethrower vs 252 HP / 4 SpD Glastrier: 140-166 (34.6 - 41%) - 64.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs 252 HP / 4 SpD Glastrier: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and trapping damage
Usually not worth attempting that last calc, but since you can always OHKO any Heatran with a (not usually difficult with Tran) tiny bit of chip the possibility is always there should you need it.

Sample set:

Glastrier @ Leftovers
Ability: Chilling Neigh
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- High Horsepower

With max HP, Slowking can't break a Substitute with Scald, and Blissey can't with Seismic Toss, making both pure setup fodder, and Clefable has unfavourable odds to do so. Glastrier's biggest advantage may be against Corviknight. While its Ice-type counterparts Weavile and Mamoswine are walled, Glastrier can outspeed with the given set and does this:
168+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs 252 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 124-146 (30.6 - 36.1%) - guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 Atk Glastrier Icicle Crash vs 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 189-223 (47.2 - 55.7%) - 78.5% chance to 2HKO
Corviknight can only really hope to check Glastrier by coming in and U-turning into a revenge killer, but as U-turn doesn't break the Substitute, predict correctly and any revenge killer has to be able to take a +2 attack, and it can only safely take one +2 Icicle Crash.

I admit the Volcarona weakness also looks off-putting, but I think Glastrier makes up for it with its considerable lack of other counters: Slowbro and Slowking are just setup fodder, and Toxapex is 2HKOed by +2 High Horsepower. Only Taunt Tapu Fini, Volcarona, Iron Defense Skarmory, Rotom-W, Buzzwole, Urshifu-R and for one time Melmetal can switch in and reliably beat it, and almost all take heavy damage in the process.

Glastrier is effective at abusing Slowking and Corviknight primarily, making it a good partner for stuff that doesn't enjoy facing them, and it will almost always trade with something, as the only relevant attacks that can always OHKO it are Choice Band Urshifu-R's Close Combat and Melmetal's Double Iron Bash. It's definitely not a Pokemon that can just be put on any team and expected to do lots, but build with it carefully and it will be rewarding. I believe it's considerably underrated and has a lot more potential than we've used it for so far, it is definitely not only for Trick Room teams.

 

[Endrism]

Like sure Kyurem is a bitch but blissey and scizor and heatran all exist and fit on a wide variety of builds.

My problem with this is that the only one of these 3 who can actually come in reliably is Blissey.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor: 179-211 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 496-588 (128.4 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 330-390 (85.4 - 101%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

EVEN THEN, if its Defensive Blissey then this happens
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 332-392 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

If Kyurem comes in on anything slower than it in any scenario, he becomes extremely hard to play around. The man has literally 0 true checks in the current meta unless we start swapping to Sp. D Volcarona, which I've already done, or Sp. D Blissey, which would lose out on a lot of good matchups.

 

[IBZ]

My problem with this is that the only one of these 3 who can actually come in reliably is Blissey.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor: 179-211 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 496-588 (128.4 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 330-390 (85.4 - 101%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

EVEN THEN, if its Defensive Blissey then this happens
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 332-392 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

If Kyurem comes in on anything slower than it in any scenario, he becomes extremely hard to play around. The man has literally 0 true checks in the current meta unless we start swapping to Sp. D Volcarona, which I've already done, or Sp. D Blissey, which would lose out on a lot of good matchups.

Still requires good prediction (vs a well built team ofc)
+ hitting 2 focus blasts is basically a coin flip
There's no denying that Kyurem is strong, but stacking up on multiple checks to it (with immunities/resistances to its coverage) while also dealing with the rest of the meta is definitely possible

 

[Jordy]

fwiw heatran is a pretty shitty check regardless cuz of the mere existence of sub sets, but scizor is completely fine even if its 2hkoed by focus. forcing a focus lock alone is already really valuable bc its very abusable, and roosting with scizor isnt that hard at all atm; u get plenty opportunities on a myriad of monz. you can also still force it out w bp.

 

[Endrism]

Still requires good prediction (vs a well built team ofc)
+ hitting 2 focus blasts is basically a coin flip
There's no denying that Kyurem is strong, but stacking up on multiple checks to it (with immunities/resistances to its coverage) while also dealing with the rest of the meta is definitely possible

True, true. Forcing it to lock into Focus Blast is great overall, but in the end its still forcing over 50% chip to Scizor or Blissey which means you have to find a way back in later in the match, which can be a lot harder now that you aren't at full. Some things you checked before are no longer checked if your Scizor is now at 54% max with a min roll + leftovers recovery, or 45% minimum if max roll. It still urks me that there are only 3 checks, and even those rely on a coin flip to win reliably.

 

[glava222]

It's always wise to also remember that focus blast doesn't play like the other moves, as any tactic that depends on you hitting 2 focus blasts in a row is a gamble, since you only have a roughly 50% chance to even hit, and with blissey it isn't even guaranteed to KO if you do hit it twice. Also kyurem being rocks weak cannot attempt to do this many times since every kyurem switch is a valuable commodity, as for example scizor can just take it out with priority bullet punch after it's switched in twice 50% of the time, and that means the odds are not in your favor.
All in all, trying to use focus blast to "cheat" special walls is very unreliable due to both the shortcomings of the move and kyurem itself, and especially if you consider the opportunity cost of going for a stab move when rocks are up, and I lost more blisseys to a random freeze dry freeze than to focus blast

 

[Contrary Servine]

Allow me to introduce Sylveon, Kyurem hardcounter.


Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sylveon easily soaks Specs Kyurem’s strongest hits and can reliably regain health through Wishtect. It 2HKOs back with Hyper Voice and doesn’t care about SubRoost shenanigans since Hyper Voice just goes through Sub. Between resisting Focus Blast and taking neutral damage from Earth Power, Sylveon can take all of Specs Kyurem’s common coverage moves as well. Honestly Sylveon is an underutilised special wall in the current meta imo, since it also walls other prominent special threats like Dragapult, Fini and Torn-T. While it lacks the versatility of Clef, it makes up for it with superior special bulk and damage output, and also has useful utility in Wish and Heal Bell. If you really want a guaranteed counter to Kyurem, just use Spdef Sylveon.

 

[Ol_dragon]

A check that may be overlooked is :
Slowking-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
Glowking takes really nicely ice attacks and focus blast, earth power does 46% max, meaning it can regenerate off most of his health, switching to your ground immunity. Draco meteor doesn't 3hko too, meaning it does the job most of the times.
This is considering the specs set, the sub roost obviously does less damage.
forcesout always if paired with a ground immunity, which is very common rn, meaning it'll die to rocks before doing any significant progress, even getting every 50/50 right.

calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- 13.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor over 3 turns vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 309-365 (78.4 - 92.6%) -- not a KO

 

[Fusien]

I'd like to talk about an underrated Pokemon in SS OU, Glastrier.

You probably all saw it a bit in the new toy hype of early DLC2, and got disappointed by its horrible speed and bad defensive typing, which is why despite its enormous stats it now resides in NU. While undercut somewhat by its weaknesses, Glastrier has the sheer bulk (physically greater than even Tangrowth) to take some ridiculous stuff, for example:
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Smart Strike vs 252 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 354-416 (87.6 - 102.9%) - 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs 252 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) - 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 4 SpD Glastrier: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Shadow Ball does 45% max)
252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs 252 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 188-222 (46.5 - 54.9%) - 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
80 SpA Slowking-Galar Flamethrower vs 252 HP / 4 SpD Glastrier: 140-166 (34.6 - 41%) - 64.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs 252 HP / 4 SpD Glastrier: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and trapping damage
Usually not worth attempting that last calc, but since you can always OHKO any Heatran with a (not usually difficult with Tran) tiny bit of chip the possibility is always there should you need it.

Sample set:

Glastrier @ Leftovers
Ability: Chilling Neigh
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- High Horsepower

With max HP, Slowking can't break a Substitute with Scald, and Blissey can't with Seismic Toss, making both pure setup fodder, and Clefable has unfavourable odds to do so. Glastrier's biggest advantage may be against Corviknight. While its Ice-type counterparts Weavile and Mamoswine are walled, Glastrier can outspeed with the given set and does this:
168+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs 252 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 124-146 (30.6 - 36.1%) - guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 Atk Glastrier Icicle Crash vs 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 189-223 (47.2 - 55.7%) - 78.5% chance to 2HKO
Corviknight can only really hope to check Glastrier by coming in and U-turning into a revenge killer, but as U-turn doesn't break the Substitute, predict correctly and any revenge killer has to be able to take a +2 attack, and it can only safely take one +2 Icicle Crash.

I admit the Volcarona weakness also looks off-putting, but I think Glastrier makes up for it with its considerable lack of other counters: Slowbro and Slowking are just setup fodder, and Toxapex is 2HKOed by +2 High Horsepower. Only Taunt Tapu Fini, Volcarona, Iron Defense Skarmory, Rotom-W, Buzzwole, Urshifu-R and for one time Melmetal can switch in and reliably beat it, and almost all take heavy damage in the process.

Glastrier is effective at abusing Slowking and Corviknight primarily, making it a good partner for stuff that doesn't enjoy facing them, and it will almost always trade with something, as the only relevant attacks that can always OHKO it are Choice Band Urshifu-R's Close Combat and Melmetal's Double Iron Bash. It's definitely not a Pokemon that can just be put on any team and expected to do lots, but build with it carefully and it will be rewarding. I believe it's considerably underrated and has a lot more potential than we've used it for so far, it is definitely not only for Trick Room teams.

Last time I used this Glastrier set, around a month ago, it was pretty solid and extremely fun. So easy to sweep with and the bulk was literally insane, almost zama-esque, as you can see in the calcs TailGlowVM has presented. Haven’t used it recently due to some metagame trends that have been annoying for it, but can’t wait to use it again once the meta cools down with the Volcarona usage and the Weavile prep, such as Buzzwole , that indirectly effect Glastrier. Still, really cool mon, and great post highlighting what it does.

 

[SLDR]

Question #1: What is your favorite thing about Generation 8's OU?
The overall abundance of good breakers. I love me my offensive/bulky offensive metagame when I see one. With the ban of Urshifu-S, Magearna and Cinderace I don't feel like there is any overbearing offensive Pokémon. Sure, there are some candidates but they are much more manageable, offensively and defensively.

Question #2: What is your least favorite thing about Generation 8's OU?
I don't really have a strongly negative opinion on anything present in the current metagame. I'd say we are lacking countermeasures to Item displacement. Gen 7 was overcrept like crazy with Z-moves and Megas but they gave teams tool to prevent Knock Off or Trick. Literally you have a Gastrodon or something is getting crippled by Tapu Fini tricking a Scarf away. There is little to no reliable counterplay. Knock Off is even better against Sticky Hold users because it never loses its 50% boost. It's not a big deal or anything that ruins the meta, I feel like it's a bit too easy to click Knock Off and make progress. I'm not saying I want both Z-moves and Megas back, just something simpler like new items/abilities/whatever.

Question #3: If you could pick one Pokemon as rising in usage from a lower-tier over the next few months into OU, which one would you pick?
Buzzwole. It has unique blend of offensive and defensive prowess while having glaring and exploitable weaknesses. It's just an unique presence overall.

Question #4: If there was one Pokemon in Ubers that you could possibly consider as being testable or even healthy in OU, which one would you pick?
I wish I could have non-Libero Cinderace or non-Sheer Force Landorus-Incarnate but at the same time I'm strongly against the idea because it sets awful consequences on what can be done to tiering. Everything in the Ubers tier looks like a big threat to me so let's just leave them where they are.

 

[Finchinator]

We do intend to have a survey in a couple of weeks, but there are no current plans to retest anything and I have no clue why it has become such a common topic of discussion recently after dying down for a long stretch.

 

[Fusion Flare]

there are no current plans to retest anything and I have no clue why it has become such a common topic of discussion recently after dying down for a long stretch.

Alright then, let's see our potential candidates, eh?

No, no, definetly not, absolutely not, hell no, not in the slightest, Nope, Nada, 0% chance, No way, Uh uh, and finally....

MAYBE Cinderace? But then again, compared to the 11 monstrously broken pokemon, Cinderace is just. Broken. Not really OH MY GOD GET IT OUT OF HERE nah it's just broken. So yeah, not really much hope for retesting the brokens. But hey, who knows? maybe Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl will hand us yet another brokemon session for chaos. Until then, unbannings are off the table.

 

[Ctann]

Alright then, let's see our potential candidates, eh?

View attachment 353032
No, no, definetly not, absolutely not, hell no, not in the slightest, Nope, Nada, 0% chance, No way, Uh uh, and finally....

MAYBE Cinderace? But then again, compared to the 11 monstrously broken pokemon, Cinderace is just. Broken. Not really OH MY GOD GET IT OUT OF HERE nah it's just broken. So yeah, not really much hope for retesting the brokens. But hey, who knows? maybe Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl will hand us yet another brokemon session for chaos. Until then, unbannings are off the table.

haha!

you can probably pick 6 of those using a random number generator , and you have a viable team that will steamroll most standard OU teams..

you probably think cinderace wasn’t too bad if you’re a fan of slowbro/pex.. but it was literally horrible to play against otherwise!

Everything strong in the current OU draft list has ways that you can kind of circumvent their dominance ... except heatrans case where it’s less about circumventing it and more about the meta not giving it many options, kinda like future sight on the slow twins. Great on paper or verse people who haven’t experienced the frustration yet, less useful in practice.

when do the new Pokémon’s get released, in the Pearl/diamond remakes?

 

[Red Raven]

A check that may be overlooked is :
Slowking-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
Glowking takes really nicely ice attacks and focus blast, earth power does 46% max, meaning it can regenerate off most of his health, switching to your ground immunity. Draco meteor doesn't 3hko too, meaning it does the job most of the times.
This is considering the specs set, the sub roost obviously does less damage.
forcesout always if paired with a ground immunity, which is very common rn, meaning it'll die to rocks before doing any significant progress, even getting every 50/50 right.

calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- 13.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor over 3 turns vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 309-365 (78.4 - 92.6%) -- not a KO

The problem with using galarian Slowking to deal with Kyurem is Slowking doesn't exactly threaten Kyurem. If you have a team that doesn't have an ice beam resist then Kyurem will just spam ice beam until Slowking dies and I'm not exactly sure if it's worth it to use power gem over any other coverage move just for Kyurem

 

[ausma]

The problem with using galarian Slowking to deal with Kyurem is Slowking doesn't exactly threaten Kyurem. If you have a team that doesn't have an ice beam resist then Kyurem will just spam ice beam until Slowking dies and I'm not exactly sure if it's worth it to use power gem over any other coverage move just for Kyurem

This isn't really true at all and underestimates Galarian Slowking's natural strength. However, moreover, the important thing here to consider is that this doesn't really consider how Galarian Slowking actually operates in the Choice Specs Kyurem matchup. In a nutshell, it eases prediction while not folding momentum. Thanks to its amazing Special bulk, it can scout Kyurem's Choice lock with relative ease and can do it repeatedly thanks to Regenerator, which then gives the Galarian Slowking user the ability to make the appropriate switch with minimal risk and force Kyurem out. Even in a pinch, Galarian Slowking's Sludge Bomb is more than enough to pressure it, especially with Stealth Rock in the equation. If anything, it has more trouble against SubRoost variants since it can get PP stalled even if it breaks its Substitute with Sludge Bomb; though, SubRoost Kyurem tends to be considerably easier pivot into, and Galarian Slowking can still fish for Poison and use it as Future Sight fodder if necessary.

In general, though, it's been seeing use as a great Special wall against things such as Tapu Koko, Tapu Fini, and potentially even Kyurem in WCoP for its incredible Special bulk with an Assault Vest, Regenerator, great progress forcing options in Sludge Bomb/Future Sight, and the firepower and coverage necessary to mitigate the potential of passivity further. It's definitely a pretty great option currently especially in combination with Pokemon like Urshifu-R.

 

[IBZ]

A check that may be overlooked is :
Slowking-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
Glowking takes really nicely ice attacks and focus blast, earth power does 46% max, meaning it can regenerate off most of his health, switching to your ground immunity. Draco meteor doesn't 3hko too, meaning it does the job most of the times.
This is considering the specs set, the sub roost obviously does less damage.
forcesout always if paired with a ground immunity, which is very common rn, meaning it'll die to rocks before doing any significant progress, even getting every 50/50 right.

calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- 13.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor over 3 turns vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 309-365 (78.4 - 92.6%) -- not a KO

In my experience glowking is a very nice check, however if it gets knocked off it's in trouble

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 212-250 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Granted, you can still use glowking to scout then switch to a resist. But this can be predicted, and also means that when you come back in vs kyurem you're much weaker, especially with rocks up.
If you come in on ice beam with rocks then regen off the damage, assuming a min roll you're at 77%.
Now Kyurem is free to spam freeze dry since it 2hkos 77% no AV glowking with rocks up

And before you say this is an awfully specific situation, it's really not that difficult to set up. Special attacking knock off lures like tapu fini and torn-t are great at baiting glowking in to remove its AV.