Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion v3 (Usage in post #251)

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Trick Room is pretty bad atm. It's not an abuser problem, it's an issue of all the viable setters got snapped, and there's no real replacements.
The other major issue Trick Room currently faces is the fact that it doesn't have a single viable setter or abuser alike that doesn't get effortlessly OHKOed by Dracovish, besides maybe Mimikyu which can do something about Dracovish exactly once. Even though Dracovish isn't quite the dominant force it was early in the Gen 8 meta, it's still something you actively need to take into consideration when teambuilding to a degree unlike virtually anything else, and as a result of this Trick Room teams actively have to fish for matchups to a much greater degree than in past generations.
 
I have been having a lot of success with Unburden / Belly Drum Slurpuff lately. It’s movepool is extremely limited, but once you overwhelm its counters it’s a house.
Don't be such a tease, post some sets and replays for us Slurpuff fans!! I've seen some Sticky Web sets running around too that would seem to be outclassed by Ribombee. But if it can become a legitimate sweeping threat then that uncertainty would improve the viability of its support options as well.
 
Quarantine has me unfortunately playing more. I want to express how crappy this meta is on the whole and (possibly) banning Arena Trap is only the tip of the iceberg that I feel is needed. There's a host of mons that fall into: unhealthy, busted, or a little bit of both. A list to start with: Kyurem, Dracovish, Aegislash, Zeraora... and I'll make it spicy and add Toxapex. Also in the conversation: Dragapult, Excadrill, Conkeldurr.

I'm sure that list may stir some controversy but that's not the point, the point is that there is a long list of mons that are hurting this meta and I think most of us would agree to some extent. Every team has gaping holes. It's the most difficult it's ever been to create a real balance team. Because we have so many things that are busted/unhealthy, a lot of these mons don't even feel broken because relatively, they are just as good as other mons... who are also broken. I haven't dipped my feet in UU, but I feel their ban-happy approach has probably created a nice metagame.

This isn't a critique of the OU council. I like the thoughtfulness of their approach, and they have dealt with two tough realities. One, we started with with a philosophical question of Dynamax, which delayed metagame development but also set the bar extremely high as to what is broken, especially and also when you compare it to Darm-G. Second, we are now in an age of updates where we randomly get released new mons, a la Home. This has made us more conservative with suspecting since we know the meta is soon to change. Fair. It just sucks that this meta... sucks. Anyone feel the same way?

Just my $.02 on the metagame
 
Trick Room is pretty bad atm. It's not an abuser problem, it's an issue of all the viable setters got snapped, and there's no real replacements. There is no longer an Uxie that can compress Rocks, Trick Room and Memento off the lead. There's no Cresselia that can absorb hits and set Trick Room repeatedly before saccing itself for one last sweep. And OTR mons are just non-existent. Hat is the only one that comes close, and it's sadly way too easy to stop, as it cannot fit Trick Room, STABs, coverage and setup in 4 moves, as well as lacking reliable recovery and being way too vulnerable to revenge killing when TR ends. Not to mention if it goes down the team likely goes down with it. There just isn't any way to set TR and regain the momentum you lose from doing so.

Plus the fact that abusers of TR being common actually can end up hurting, as your faster abusers can risk being undersped by mons that are on basically every other team.
The other major issue Trick Room currently faces is the fact that it doesn't have a single viable setter or abuser alike that doesn't get effortlessly OHKOed by Dracovish, besides maybe Mimikyu which can do something about Dracovish exactly once. Even though Dracovish isn't quite the dominant force it was early in the Gen 8 meta, it's still something you actively need to take into consideration when teambuilding to a degree unlike virtually anything else, and as a result of this Trick Room teams actively have to fish for matchups to a much greater degree than in past generations.
Is it foolhardy of me to look through the available Trick Room setters to see if I can find replacements for Uxie and Cress where people who actually play this meta have failed? Probably, but I'm going to do it anyway, because I enjoy reading people break down why something does or does not work, and this might result in some of that regardless of if I strike gold or not.


Only one other Pokemon learns all three of Trick Room, Stealth Rock, and Memento is Runerigus. While it gets bopped by Dracovish, it will take Vish's Strong Jaw down with it. If you're willing to give up Stealth Rock, there are a few other options. Dusclops is dummy thicc, Cofagrigus can set up Toxic Spikes and has a better Vish matchup than its rune brother jk it's not much better Vish still OHKOs half the time, and Whimsicott has a non-suicidal pivoting move, will still Memento first under Trick Room thanks to Prankster, can use Taunt to prevent the opponent from shutting down Trick Room with their own Taunt, and doesn't drop to one Fishious Rend. There's also Chandelure and the Ralts twins, but using strong (and kinda fast) Pokemon as a suicide lead seems foolish even to me.


For the combo of Trick Room, recovery, and sacrifice heal, the closest thing to Cress is Musharna. Musharna not be as bulky or be able to heal PP, but it's much slower and actually has decent power (maybe it could make use of Future Sight). Oh, and instead of a Ground immunity, it, uh, can sort of reflect status conditions, or scout for if Aegislash is special or physical, or what Corviknight's attack of choice is, or if Clef has Fire Blast, I guess. Beyond that, Celebi has access to Stealth Rock for some Uxie action, and can stomach a hit from Dracovish (pretty sure it can even hard wall it with Skill Swap, if that kind of jank proves useful). And then there's Mr. Rime, who, um, I'm not sure why you would use.
 
What are everyones thoughts on teleport clef currently. The last few weeks its been a huge support mon and used so widely, and I understand since its great, but I'm feeling like people are quickly realizing all clefs have no way to cripple their switch ins anymore. You can go hard into your poison/fire/steel types without any fear of any non fairy attacks, any knocks, any twaves, no CM and just..win.

Its feeling like one of those sets that kicks off hard but might fall in use, but maybe not too since the guaranteed wish pass is so so nice.

How we feelin?
 

Ausma

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What are everyones thoughts on teleport clef currently. The last few weeks its been a huge support mon and used so widely, and I understand since its great, but I'm feeling like people are quickly realizing all clefs have no way to cripple their switch ins anymore. You can go hard into your poison/fire/steel types without any fear of any non fairy attacks, any knocks, any twaves, no CM and just..win.

Its feeling like one of those sets that kicks off hard but might fall in use, but maybe not too since the guaranteed wish pass is so so nice.

How we feelin?
To me, it's honestly its best set. The sheer utility in healing a huge wincon/breaker that can be worn down for free is an absolute godsend, and the set in of itself is an extremely splashable utility due to Teleport's amazing buff. Even if you hard switch a fire/poison/steel into it like you're saying, Teleport can still be used raw for momentum and keeping yourself in an advantageous position. Clefable is probably the only viable user of it in OU, but it being that said user is incredible. Not only is it inherently bulky, but it by nature can pretty effectively check a lot of huge threats in the metagame such as Dragapult, Hydreigon, and Keldeo with Moonblast and investment alone, which is what sets it above other Wishporters. Overall, it's super flexible and is an absolutely godlike utility on balance and offense squads from my experience with it. It's just so useful.
 

Zneon

formerly f is for frens
is a Live Chat Contributor
What are everyones thoughts on teleport clef currently. The last few weeks its been a huge support mon and used so widely, and I understand since its great, but I'm feeling like people are quickly realizing all clefs have no way to cripple their switch ins anymore. You can go hard into your poison/fire/steel types without any fear of any non fairy attacks, any knocks, any twaves, no CM and just..win.

Its feeling like one of those sets that kicks off hard but might fall in use, but maybe not too since the guaranteed wish pass is so so nice.

How we feelin?
It feels like the best support mon and pivot in the tier by a country mile, and easily its best set. The invaluable utility of such easy wish passes because of the negative priority is genuinely just incredible. I don't really see teleport clef dropping off any time soon, well, not for a long time that is, not to mention how consistent Clef is at doing it because of that godsent Fairy typing and perfect all-around bulk. It's able to do it so easy as well since it can switch into stuff Dragapult and Hydregon so easily and just simply guarantee a wish pass into something like Kyurem is just invaluable, not to mention the fact that you can choose whatever spread you want on Clef because of how flexible it is. It's incredibly unique and the value and utility it provides really cannot be understated.
 

Gross Sweep

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Bisharp has been on the uptick for a while now, so I've spent the last few days messing around with the mon trying to find some good cores and options to help it excel in our current metagame and beyond, since I only see it getting better without Dugtrio (if an Arena Trap ban does occur) around to potentially trap it. That being said one core I have really enjoyed is
+
. These two have the shared ability to apply a lot of pressure to Clefable, Corviknight, and Toxapex who are seemingly everywhere currently. That being said there are other fatter annoyances right now, that with a little bit of prep can be worn down by these two as well. With this pairing I really enjoy running Play Rough on Zeraora since it chunks Kommo-o who would be problematic otherwise. Also on bisharp I prefer to run Adamant Life Orb to assure Seismitoad can't live a +2 Knock when rocks are up. The core also really benefits from the dual Knock Off these two provide making some "safer" switch ins that can come in if they're close to full like Hippowdon and Ferrothorn more shaky as they lose their passive recovery making them easier to get past a bit later in the game the next time they try and come in on you. Also one last bit about this core I love is the relative speed control. I really dislike a lot of the scarfers currently in the tier so Zeraora having the highest speed stat in the tier + Sucker for priority helps makes a scarfer less of a necessity.

Another Mon I have been playing around with recently is
. At first glance this may seem like a bit more of a meme pick, but with this set Snorlax can actually put in a lot of work. Thanks to a high SpDef stat and Thick Fat Snorlax is a great switch in to Kyurem only taking about 13-15% from Specs Ice Beam. Snorlax also shuts down most Dragapults which is really great. On top of this it also uses a lot of common walls like Clefable and Defog Corviknight as set up fodder, meaning it gets a lot of opportunities to set up and threaten opposing teams. Lax also benefits from Clefable being such a solid mon in the meta since it is easy to fit on most teams, which means passing Wishes is pretty easy to execute allowing Snorlax to rely on Rest a bit less. One last little fun fact about Snorlax is that it's a mon running Body Slam, so throwing that off every now and again fishing for a Para never hurt nobody.



Using the Bisharp + Zera core and Snorlax on the same team might not be the best plan, but I wanted to include something, so people can give the mons a try if they don't have teams utilizing them yet, and aside from a few annoying mons the team actually works fairly well. I started with Bisharp and Zeraora as those two have great synergy together for the reasons listed above. After that I added Clefable since it's practically mandatory on most OU teams. Went with the Wish Teleport set to help keep my team healthy and aid in momentum getting Bisharp and Zeraora into the game more easily. SpDef set allows it to take on Nasty Plot Hydreigon if it's around full health, and the speed is for max speed Adamant Conk. Went with Kommo-o next since it sets rocks, and helps check opposing Bisharp, Excadrill, and Conkeldurr. With Wish support from Clefable it's pretty easy to keep this thing healthy throughout the course of a match. The next addition to the team was Snorlax who gave the team a better Kyurem and Dragapult answer than relying to heavily on Clefable who isn't running a ton of SpDef due to Conk being such a threat. This set ends up becoming the wincon in a lot of games as it has that SM Reuniclus feel to it where it eats up a lot of unprepared teams while providing a lot of utility defensively vs some huge threats in the tier. The final mon on the team is Ferrothorn, who is doing its best to keep the team together. At this point I needed more help vs Rain and hazards. Ferrothorn provides the team with a stronger water resist than Kommo-o and Spikes. I currently feel like a lot of teams have a rocker and then some Defogger like Corviknight, and call it good in terms of hazards. With this in mind, seeing as Tspikes is fairly non-existent this gen, I felt comfortable running Rocks and Spikes and forgoing removal since I'm pretty comfortable trading rocks with this team and maybe getting up a Spike most of the time. Plus Bisharp is around to punish opposing Defog. Overall I actually really like this team and it's a lot of fun. Just have to understand matchups vs Conk and Vish are going to have to be played around carefully and you can't let those two continuously come in for free or it's over.

Anyways hope everyone takes a bit to try out Snorlax, and find more cores involving Bisharp to wreck with. Another core I'll probably be trying next is Offensive Drill + Bisharp as those two seem like they'd wear down common checks pretty fast.
 
Don't be such a tease, post some sets and replays for us Slurpuff fans!! I've seen some Sticky Web sets running around too that would seem to be outclassed by Ribombee. But if it can become a legitimate sweeping threat then that uncertainty would improve the viability of its support options as well.
I’ll have to save some replays and report back, but the set is

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Drain Punch
- Facade

The nature is a big questionmark. At +2, Adamant Slurpuff speed ties base 98 scarfers. Crucially, this means it ties scarf Hydreigon, and loses to the Swords of Justice, Jirachi, and Gengar. Jolly Slurpuff outspeeds then all though. Jolly Slurpuff can also outspeed a surprising number of relevant pokemon who have +2, including Cloysyer, Ludocolo, Mantine, adamant Gyarados, and modest Venusaur (not sure if that’s a thing?)

Of those Pokémon, Jolly +6 can OHKO everything but Jirachi and Venusaur, and you OHKO Venusaur with any amount of chip. Jirachi you’re hitting for 69-81%, and you’re not quite outright OHKO’d by Iron Head so if you’re able to heal off chip damage you’re okay.

By far Slurpuff’s biggest weakness is its terrible movepool and the fact that some of the most common walls in the format resist its handful of viable moves. Aegislash, Toxapex*, Hippo, Max HP Rotom-H, and unaware Clefable can all stop the sweep, as can a couple extremely speedy Pokémon like Swift Swim Barreskewda and Scarf Dragopult. Corvi can live an attack, but can’t hit back that hard after you take into account the healing off of Drain Punch.

Toxepex has an askterisk because of the recent move towards more Toxic Spikes and Baelful Bunker sets. If Slurpuff is poisoned it can beat Toxapex with Facade, but being badly poisoned is a big issue for a Pokémon that relies on Drain Punch to beat things that would otherwise check it.

Slurpuff’s best friends are Pokémon who can break these walls, including Zeroara, Dragapult, and Excadrill. I’ve found that Adamant Slurpuff especially likes working with Scarf Dragapult, who can get scarfers and some weather abusers out of the way for you. I think Jolly is probably better, but I’m not sure yet.

Facade is pretty rarely useful, as it doesn’t hit ghost or steels hard. It is plausible another move is worth running, but I’m not sure what that would be. You get a bunch of support moves including Substitute, Webs, Toxic, Wish, Cotton Defense, and Rest
 

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic/Hypnosis
- Earthquake

I think Bronzong has a slight niche in this meta, as half of the same small list of breakers on every team don't do very well vs Bronzong and it gets a free switch-in to Clef, Pex, and Corv. Traditionally, its main flaw has been a lack of recovery, which is much less of an issue right now considering its great type synergy with clef, which is easy to put on almost every team.

Bronzong easily counters both Sand Rush drill and Kyurem (with no SpD), who are both major threats right now, and it takes 2 of any hit from Zera as well. With Toxic, Bronzong can lead very well due to good matchup vs most rockers, such as kommo-o, dugtrio, toad, and hippo.

Iron Head does more damage to Clef than Gyro Ball, and Earthquake covers Excadrill and Zeraora. Toxic cripples leads and is good considering how many chances Bronzong gets to switch in on defensive mons during a match. Hypnosis lets Bronzong take advantage of its free switch-in to any of the standard Clef/Pex/Corv defensive core. The long games clef+zong force make hypnosis's accuracy less of a liability, as it isn't often that a miss against those three will determine the match. Sleep is the most reliable way I've found to break Clef/Pex/Corv, as it isn't impossible to find breakers that beat at least two of them. CB Darmanitan, for example, benefits from a sleeping Pex because it can forgo prediction and just click Flare Blitz with a good chance of knocking it out from full.

The biggest issue I see with Bronzong right now is its typing, which is a huge liability because of all the dark types/offensive dragapult running around and the fact that every defensive mon seems to be running knock off anyways.

0 Atk Bronzong Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Clefable: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 97-114 (28.6 - 33.7%) -- 97.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 140-165 (41.4 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Bronzong Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem: 170-204 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 44-52 (13 - 15.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 196-232 (54.2 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 96-114 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 95.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Zeraora Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 124-148 (36.6 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zeraora: 166-196 (52.3 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Hi

Since my OST "run" (3 activity wins...) is over, I just wanted to share my thoughts of some Pokemon and sets that I think are good in current SS OU and a couple of teams that I used.


Primarina (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 80 SpA / 44 SpD / 136 Spe
Calm Nature

IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

Here's what I believe is Primarina's best set in SS OU. Primarina's niche is that it's the only Pokemon we have right now that naturally checks Hydreigon without going fully defensive. On paper this set is shut down by Haze Toxapex but in practice the Pex player will lose 1v1 when it gets burnt and if Black Sludge is knocked off which isn't hard to do. Because Pexes are PhysDef now, +1 Moonblasts and Scalds will pressure Pex significantly and force it to Recover more than it would like to. The EV spread is the key here. It has not only enough Speed for max speed Ada Conkeldurr, but a lot of special bulk so Moonblast from uninvested Clefable cannot break its Sub. There's not many counters to this thing, just Haze Pex with Black Sludge still equipped, non-burnt Ferro with STAB, Unaware Clef, and Snorlax. I went 3-0 using two different teams with Prima and I wanted to show them off.



Team was built around CM Hatterene, a Pokemon I wanted to try out because of a blunder vid a few weeks ago. The issue with running Hatterene has always been its massive competition with Clef. Defensively, Hat isn't a good check vs NP Hydreigon, and running both Hat and Clef never feels right as they do similar things and are weak to the same stuff. That's where I got the idea of Primarina as it covers Hydra for Hat. In turn, Hat can dissuade Toxapex from setting up T-Spikes and directly threatens it. Hat in practice rarely sweeps but can 1v1 a big threat every game. This team was fun for me mostly because no Clef. Speaking of Magic Bounce Pokemon...



Xatu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Night Shade
- Defog
- Roost

It's a good time to be a Xatu right now. Think about it. What are the top rockers in the current metagame? Seismitoad, Kommo-o, Ferrothorn, Hippowdon. What do they have in common? Can't get 'em up vs Xatu. SR Drill outside of HO has kinda fallen off the map, so until it rises back in usage I think Xatu is an okay pick in SS OU. The key move for Xatu here is of course Teleport, which can immediately put the momentum back in your favor while putting the opponent in the awkward position. This EV spread avoids the 3HKO from Toad's Scald accounting for burn, but it is very customizable. I always thought Xatu had a place here since Pre-Home, but it was much tougher Pre-Home when it is so weak to Hydreigon. If there was only something that handles Hydra but not too passive, hmm...



This one is built around the matchup fossil, CB Dracovish. Xatu I felt was a good partner because the top Dracovish checks all happen to be hazard setters that struggle vs Xatu: Toad, Kommo-o, Ferro, and Pex. Prima was immediately added to patch the Hydra weakness. Ferro is the rocker, primary Fairy resist, and pretend Vish check. Court Change (!) was added as I needed a speedy Pokemon that can directly handle opposing Ferro. Together with Vish, they can potentially overwhelm defensive cores due to them having basically the same checks. Super Fang makes it easier for Court Change to whittle down its checks, but Sucker Punch helps vs a Dragapult or Chandelure matchup. Scarf Hydra is the main method of speed control and Ghost resist. Team looks fun and is fun to use. It is flawed though; no Flying resist means that it's very weak to NP Togekiss in particular. Love this one as it is a rare non-HO offensive build that I think is effective, especially vs defensive Kommo-o teams.



Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
- Moonblast
- Imprison
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish

I just slapped this on a random team to try it out, and it's surprisingly solid. The idea of Imprison is fully taking advantage of Clef's 101% usage to shut down opposing Clefs while you're still able to do your thing. Little bit iffy vs CM Clef but if you get SpA drops it should be fine.



Really really good...the perfect anti-meta Pokemon, shutting down trendy picks like Specs Kyurem and Chandelure. Honestly should be OU by usage. Moves are really customizable, maybe even EV spreads and Nature; there might be some merit in running more offensive Curse variants. Can auto-win vs a good amount of teams. It's admittedly difficult to build around, for me at least :(


But yeah, that's it from me. Thanks for reading and thanks to all my friends from r/stunfisk and Discord who helped me out :)
 
Bisharp has been on the uptick for a while now, so I've spent the last few days messing around with the mon trying to find some good cores and options to help it excel in our current metagame and beyond, since I only see it getting better without Dugtrio (if an Arena Trap ban does occur) around to potentially trap it. That being said one core I have really enjoyed is
+
.
Interested in seeing how well this ages post-Dugtrio, to say nothing of potential Zolt/Tox/Ttar (though I'm honestly feeling the first 2 post Dugtrio than I am the latter, which is a bit depressing).

Zeraora has unanimously been seen as a stellar mon since release and it's been everywhere while performing consistently, while Bisharp rise and success has been particularly interesting since I found Bisharp basically remained consistent since the start in my experience lmao, Zeraora + Bisharp on teams would've been something I expected to see on teams putting this core specifically aside.
 
The other major issue Trick Room currently faces is the fact that it doesn't have a single viable setter or abuser alike that doesn't get effortlessly OHKOed by Dracovish, besides maybe Mimikyu which can do something about Dracovish exactly once. Even though Dracovish isn't quite the dominant force it was early in the Gen 8 meta, it's still something you actively need to take into consideration when teambuilding to a degree unlike virtually anything else, and as a result of this Trick Room teams actively have to fish for matchups to a much greater degree than in past generations.
Trick Room can work around vish. Whimsicott, Celebi and Jellicent exist as setters that help with it.

In general Trick Room as an archetype right now is pretty ok but it's definitely not bad. It gets underrated for the wrong reasons each gen, doesn't seem like this one will be much different.

I'd say it's biggest problem atm is mostly that the meta is slow so it can run into weird speed issues depending on which mons the TR team runs.
 
After messing around with Trick Room a bit and being a huge abuser of it last gen, the Pokemon I am missing the most is Magearna. Last gen is provided a valuable Dark-resist to otherwise Dark-weak setters, posed a significant threat on its own (with Twinkle Tackle) and had a lot of other important resistances as well.

Although the meta has shifted somewhat to Ghost being Psychics’ bane moreso than Dark, lacking a non-Ghost or Psychic Trick Room setter has made the prospect of Trick Room less viable overall. Additionally, I’m finding fewer wallbreakers inside and outside of Trick Room.

Conkeldurr is the most obvious example, but in Trick Room it can still be played around. Other slow wallbreakers, such as Crawdaunt, lack the bulk to make the most of the playstyle. In conclusion, this gen is missing its Marowak-Aloha and Magearna to make TR truly viable.
 
RIP Giga Drain Trapinch.
:ss/Trapinch:
you were too beautiful to live forever

Anyway, with that out the way, time to celebrate!
:Clefable: Amazingly, yes, it can get even better... This thing's usage makes Lando-T jealous.
:Aegislash: While not trapped by Duggy, it didn't appreciate having to switch out of EQs all the time.
:Excadrill: Are the sweeping sets viable now?
:Toxapex: All hail our Lord Pex
:Zeraora: This time, THIS time he's going to sweep you. For real this time!
:Terrakion: Oh. Boy. Yikes.
:Jirachi: Because this metagame needs more Wish passers and flinch haxxers.
:Bisharp: Brace. This one's gonna hurt. Bisharp is easily one of the top 5 balance breakers post-Duggy ban I think.
:Tyranitar: Finally he might have a shot at being useful in this metagame.
:Cinderace: Cinderace has been strutting its stuff on HO for some time. Just ask Christo, or read his posts in the SPL discussion thread.
:Dracozolt: Don't worry, it'll miss.
:Toxtricity: This guy finally gets to show what he can do.
 
Toxtricity will definitely be a lot more viable. It's a great answer to Clefable and Toxapex, both of which also benefit a lot from Dugtrio's ban (the former also synergized decently with Dugtrio via Teleport).

Toxtricity single-handedly crushes Clefable+Corviknight (plus Toxapex) defensive backbones that a lot of teams use in some form. Now that it doesn't have to run Shed Shell to avoid being trapped, Specs Toxtricity can wallbreak much easier-Clefable needs 252/252+ SpDef to not be 2HKO'd by Specs Overdrive, while Clefable can't even Thunder Wave it or even break a Sub most of the time if it's not carrying something other than Moonblast (or if it's LO Clef).

And sure, Ferrothorn still is very annoying to it (although mixed Shift Gear sets are more viable because of Dugtrio being gone), but Toxtricity can simply Volt Switch out, and Specs Boombusrt still does 33-39% to PhysDef Ferrothorn.
 
Along with the pokemon freed by Dugtrio, also need to factor in the pokemon that get a time to shine to counter them. Hippo gets even better against bulk up zeras, ttars, dracozolts, terraks etc. You could even use big boss Runerigus to take some of these freed physical mons on while fully walling toxtricity. Those were just 2 examples I've had on my mind, but there is surely a lot of more pokemon that will see usage soon.
 
Along with the pokemon freed by Dugtrio, also need to factor in the pokemon that get a time to shine to counter them. Hippo gets even better against bulk up zeras, ttars, dracozolts, terraks etc. You could even use big boss Runerigus to take some of these freed physical mons on while fully walling toxtricity. Those were just 2 examples I've had on my mind, but there is surely a lot of more pokemon that will see usage soon.
Funnily enough, Runerigus walls Toxtricity (unless it's packing Snarl), Dracozolt, and Terrakion. Zeroara needs some chip for Grass Knot to 2HKO with the standard set too.
 
I know this is not a place to state [x] is broken or suggest [x] be the next suspect, so I'll reframe my question. What are the best counterstrategies to Kyurem?

- As "anti meta" as Snorlax is, he's hard to fit onto a team given it has no reliable recovery and gets chipped down eventually. He's best used as a Curse win condition, which means you can't repeatedly switch him into Kyurem early game. IMO, firmly mediocre

- There is Umbreon, but without knockoff (even as a dark type), hazards, or any status moves outside of toxic, Umbreon is just too passive for this meta IMO. Also sub-optimal

- Then there's Bronzong, who can at least get rocks up, but you have to watch out for ghost / knock off spam. Also gets TROUNCED by all defoggers (literally all of them) AND the most common spinner, Excadrill. Also mediocre, but might be the best option.

I think the rest of the meta gets obliterated
 

Jordy

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Kyurem is obviously a really strong Pokemon, but there's definitely other ways to keep it in check. The most obvious option is specially defensive Clefable. If specially defensive Clefable in particular doesn't fit your team, you could also just use a Clefable to pivot into whatever Kyurem does with a sturdier Ice-resistant Pokemon in the back.

It's definitely important to acknowledge that if you can use Knock Off against Kyurem with Pokemon like Toxapex, Mandibuzz, and Seismitoad, it's much less threatening in general.

Kyurem's Speed also leaves some things to be desired at times; being outsped by Pokemon like Dragapult, Hydreigon, Terrakion, and Jirachi to name a couple examples, is not very desireable and means it can be pressured offensively quite well.
 
I know this is not a place to state [x] is broken or suggest [x] be the next suspect, so I'll reframe my question. What are the best counterstrategies to Kyurem?

- As "anti meta" as Snorlax is, he's hard to fit onto a team given it has no reliable recovery and gets chipped down eventually. He's best used as a Curse win condition, which means you can't repeatedly switch him into Kyurem early game. IMO, firmly mediocre

- There is Umbreon, but without knockoff (even as a dark type), hazards, or any status moves outside of toxic, Umbreon is just too passive for this meta IMO. Also sub-optimal

- Then there's Bronzong, who can at least get rocks up, but you have to watch out for ghost / knock off spam. Also gets TROUNCED by all defoggers (literally all of them) AND the most common spinner, Excadrill. Also mediocre, but might be the best option.

I think the rest of the meta gets obliterated
Sylveon seems like it would work well. It takes Specs Ice Beam pretty comfortably, and Hyper Voice is a 2HKO unless Kyurem is hella SpDef, so it can deal with Sub Roost variants nicely. As Jordy mentioned, Dragapult is a good offensive check that can also ignore Substitutes thanks to Infiltrator.
 

Finchinator

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Substitute Kyurem is honestly not that notable or hard to check, as it is completely incapable of actually pressuring Clefable teams.
This is also especially the case with the recent realization about Metrenome mechanics -- Protect is super common now and hard stops it. The only merit of SubRoost Kyurem is having more longevity to fish for freezes. Specs is far better overall; Specs improved a lot with the removal of Sash Dugtrio from the metagame, too.
 
Zeraora and Terrakion, especially the latter, will be even better with Arena Trap's ban, and both of these 2 Pokemon have limited defensive counterplay before the two DLCs come out. I can even see Terrakion being a big enough problem to warrant tiering action because of its raw power and good speed tier now that it doesn't have to run Shed Shell for Dugtrio.
 
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