Is it at all possible to even Breed T-Wave or some other Paralysation inflicting move on to Lickilicky? That would make him so much better, Surviving the first attack, then running rampant with consecutive Me Firsts? That would be brutal.
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STAB Explosion (Lickilicky Discussion)
- Thread starter Boa1891
- Start date
It seems like you'd have to be very careful with the Rollout set. Even with an Ammnesia and a Defense Curl, something that resists/is neutral to rock could set up on you, depending on bulkiness. And since you're locked in for 5 turns (can you switch out?) you could have some real trouble- you really don't want a bulky resist like Garchomp coming in and getting 2-3 Swords Dances, or T-tar with Dragon Dances.
Even if they resist rock, it gets up to over 1,300 BP XD
I expect the first two hits or so they'd just lol at the damage, but by the third hit they'd die, I expect. Then whatever they send out next? It dies too. Finally, the coup de grace with the final attack more powerful than STAB explosion that'll wipe out anything from 4x rock resists to a Skarmory that's had def boosts passed to it and gets in Roost before Rollout hits.
No, I even said in the post he can't get T-Wave at all which was the reason for the possible gimmick set with Light Ball+Fling. Who in their right minds would use thunder over twave on a para based set if Twave was obtainable in any way?
Edit:
Max attack Lickilicky with final Metronome-DC-Rollout hit on max def, max HP Skarm:
752-885 Damage
225.15% - 264.97%
XD!!!!!!
That means even if it has two stage def passed to it or roosts before the attack hits, it still dies. Of course, the chance of Skarmory having two stage def passed to it or having the right HP to roost while being in against this behemoth is very low. I just like running random calculations. But LOL. That means that like I said, the last 2 hits in this rollout are basically two guaranteed OHKOs on almost anything, and the one before that (#3) is really powerful too.
Well, I imagine that whatever switched in has the sense to kill you off before Rollout gets to crazy proportions 
Assuming they know how Rollout works, that is. Maybe just 1-2 SDs/DDs. They could still kill you off and sweep, especially if they outspeed you, which is likely. it might not even be a setup pogey- it could be something like Scarf/Band Outrage Garchomp. By about the 3rd Rollout repitition you'd be walking a fine line- you can kill that Garchomp but he can kill you too.
Assuming they know how Rollout works, that is. Maybe just 1-2 SDs/DDs. They could still kill you off and sweep, especially if they outspeed you, which is likely. it might not even be a setup pogey- it could be something like Scarf/Band Outrage Garchomp. By about the 3rd Rollout repitition you'd be walking a fine line- you can kill that Garchomp but he can kill you too.
Okay, so you defense curl. They attack. You begin Roll-out for 60 damage. They switch out to someone else.
They get hit by a 120 base powered Rollout. Even with resistance packed in, thats only 60 BP.
Then they get hit by 240 base powered Rollout, 120 with resist.
Then 480. Then 960. Yes, this is more ****ing powerful than explosion. I'd like to see a test with the Metronome thing before agreeing to it... but even without the Metronome thing (I'd probably run Wide Lens or Zoom Lens anyway), they're gonna die.
Oh, and T-Tar doesn't resist Rollout. Garchomp does, but not T-Tar.
EDIT: I should note that the only difficulty of this is that Lickilicky's attack is subpar :-( But aside from that, Rollout seems like an excellent attack, especially when coupled with Defense Curl.
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The irony of all this is that you've set up with Defense Curl. So according to the tiers list, you're sitting at a massive 122.91 defense score. This is close to Steelix (123.29) level of defenses here. So yeah, come in and Swords Dance... lets see what you'll do to the rolling tank called Lickilicky :-/ As stated before, Lickilicky's defenses are comparable to Skarm's. They are nothing to laugh at.
And of course, if they switch in before the rollout, explode in their face!
i don't entirely understand Me First, could you explain how it works?
I'm not trying to rain on the Rollout parade, since I think it's a sweet move, but I thought I'd mention that Rollout's big weakness is Protect and Detect. Once it misses it goes back to being 60 Power (assuming Defense Curl). Of course, it also means that the Rollout user can switch out.
I'm sure this is obvious, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Incentive to run Protect on at least one Pokemon in your party!
I'm sure this is obvious, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Incentive to run Protect on at least one Pokemon in your party!
Yeah, T-tar doesn't resist Rollout but he's bulky and takes neutral. Whatevs.
Anyway, yeah, it does seem quite powerful. Maybe if this starts to appear more often we'd see more Lucarios. And less Gyarados
Actually, I wonder if this can be regarded as similar to Garchomp with Outrage, in the sense of a multiturn attack that locks you in. It trades immediate power for stronger defenses, rediculous BP later on, and doesn't leave you confused. I think the only downside is speed, but with those defenses you won't be OHKOd anytime sonn, and any counter would have to survive at least the 2nd and 3rd attack, and likely the 4th. I'm gonna run the damage calculations to see if Garchomp can come in on attack 2, Swords Dance, then Outrage. With life orb on Chomp, probably.
Anyway, yeah, it does seem quite powerful. Maybe if this starts to appear more often we'd see more Lucarios. And less Gyarados
Actually, I wonder if this can be regarded as similar to Garchomp with Outrage, in the sense of a multiturn attack that locks you in. It trades immediate power for stronger defenses, rediculous BP later on, and doesn't leave you confused. I think the only downside is speed, but with those defenses you won't be OHKOd anytime sonn, and any counter would have to survive at least the 2nd and 3rd attack, and likely the 4th. I'm gonna run the damage calculations to see if Garchomp can come in on attack 2, Swords Dance, then Outrage. With life orb on Chomp, probably.
Okay, looks like with no EVs, beneficial nature and max stats with Swords Dance Outrage from Garchomp is a 2HKO on no Evs neutral nature Defense Curl Lickilicky. To set that up, Garchomp has to survive the 2nd hit on the switch, the 3rd hit for Swords Dance, the 4th hit after 1 Outrage hit and then the next Outrage kills. So it's unlikely Garchomp can win unless you switch into him or something.
If you move before the target, and they use an attacking move, you use the same move as the target at 1.5x base power. If you move after them or they don't use an attacking move, it fails.
@Footnote: Thanks for the reminder. I forgot Protect counts as a miss. Have you tested that protect and detect work to stop a rollout personally?
Other things that'll make me cry if they happen to be in on my last Rollout include: a Focus Sash/Endure + Reversal/Flail/Endeavor. That'd make Boa sad :(
hey boa, have you tested the life orb + me first thingy already? getting the attack boosts without getting the recoil damage, I meant.
Yeah, actually I did. Sadly, still got the recoil. I was hoping the boost was passive (I.E. Always there) while the recoil was only applied in the case of selecting an attacking move- I guess I was wrong.
Double-edged sword if I ever have seen one. While it breaks my set-up, it means I can use something like Fire Blast or Vine Whip, or just switch out. Unlike Outrage and other such things. Also, the boost from DCurl is still there, so if I can somehow take out your protector, I can start back up with 60BP Rollout.
Thanks for the research ^^
Exactly. It can stop Rollout, but it frees you as well. So, pros and cons.
Lickilicky's defenses aren't that good. Rollout is just BEGGING Lucario (or any fighter really) to come in and Close Combat Lickilicky to the next dimension.
You know, Rollout might pull it off with proper set up. I've just found a nice excuse to use my Stockpile passing Drifblim.
The reason why Lickilicky fails as a physical AND special wall isn't because of it's stats, but because of it's horrible resistances, immunities, and weaknesses.
On the predominantly physical side, his Fighting weakness is crippling (hello Close Combat), and he lacks key resists/immunities from other important STAB moves, such as Dragon, Normal, Rock, and Ground. Without those resists, he has a hard time walling almost ANYTHING, and surely is hardly a match for better walls like Bronzong if only because of his horrible normal typing, and adds another pokemon on your team for Heracross to prey on. And the special side isn't too pretty either, with only a Ghost immunity and nothing else to back him up.
In short, Lickilicky shouldn't be depended upon to stop physical threats, since solid typing is almost always infinitely important than raw stats, unless your name happens to be Blissey. Instead, use him as a bulkier support pokemon; yeah, I'm a little off tangent, but I'm mostly addressing earlier posts.
On the predominantly physical side, his Fighting weakness is crippling (hello Close Combat), and he lacks key resists/immunities from other important STAB moves, such as Dragon, Normal, Rock, and Ground. Without those resists, he has a hard time walling almost ANYTHING, and surely is hardly a match for better walls like Bronzong if only because of his horrible normal typing, and adds another pokemon on your team for Heracross to prey on. And the special side isn't too pretty either, with only a Ghost immunity and nothing else to back him up.
In short, Lickilicky shouldn't be depended upon to stop physical threats, since solid typing is almost always infinitely important than raw stats, unless your name happens to be Blissey. Instead, use him as a bulkier support pokemon; yeah, I'm a little off tangent, but I'm mostly addressing earlier posts.
If Licki gets defense passed to it, it's extremely bulky- If licki manages to use his own def boosts, that's good too, though unlikely.
@Tricky: True, but my team's not prepared to take on a RoarWhoring team XD I'm just sad that you killed off Lucario before I managed to use Copycat to Roar YOU. ^^
Every. Pokemon. Ever.
It occurs to me that the real weakness of the rollout set is the setup. Everyone is going to switch in a pogey with fighting type moves when they see a normal type. I mean, if something like Choice Band Heracross switches in on the turn you use Defense Curl, you might be in trouble from Close Combat, while he can take the first couple Rollouts. Or, going back to Garchomp, that SD+Outrage is a lot scarier if he can switch in sooner. And, this might be countering a gimmick with a bit of a gimmick, but Spore Breloom outruns you and can Spore the turn after it switches in, leaving you open to being SubSeeded or Focus Punched, neither of which is really a good day.
Obviously not a big user of Shedinja there.
It's nice to throw around numbers like 2600BP but the Rollout set is nothing more than a gimmick, I'm afraid. It may be able to kill one Pokemon but Lickilicky is slow and not especially blessed in any area other than HP. Boosted attacks will drop him long before you finish your Rollout, and even if the opponent can't do that, he can send out a quicker Pokemon and throw up Substitutes to stall out your Rollout. Or Lucario with his 4x resistance and OHKO potential.
I'm sure we could list ways of stopping it all day, but tbh it still could be great fun.
I don't like Curse on him either, as I can't stand to make a Pokemon do something which another does better. I quite like the idea of the Gyro Ball set and Flinging an Iron Ball is ingenious. Unfortunately, it does cost your Leftover recovery which is a pretty massive dent in something with 110 base HP.