Resource Stall in ORAS

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Analytic

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Credit to doughboy as I used his guide as reference to what I should mention
Thanks to Zamrock and DarkNostalgia for their input and ShootingStarmie for the old version of this thread


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What is Stall?

Stall is a playstyle that aims to emerge victorious by wearing down the opponent with residual damage by stacking hazards and status while keeping hazards off your side of the field and keeping all pokemon healthy. This reason is why pokemon with good defensive capabilities are essential for Stall. In order to make a good stall team, it must consist of pokemon that support each other well while handling most of the prominent threats that exist in the current metagame.

What is Semi Stall?

Semi stall is a team that primarily relies on its defensive back bone coupled in with offensive utility in the form of hazards and or cleaners / wall-breakers to break opposing defensive cores more easily.


How did ORAS impact Stall?


ORAS brought about new MegaEvos in the form of M-Altaria, M-Metagross, M-Slowbro and perhaps, the most impactful of all, M-Sableye.

M-Altaria: It gained a really good typing in Fairy/Dragon, making it weak to only 4 types. It possesses an array of useful moves in Heal Bell, Cotton Guard, Roost, Dragon Dance and good coverage moves that allows it to be a really good support mon overall.

Verdict: Positive impact

M-Metagross: Metagross gained a really good ability in Tough Claws which gives a 1.33x boost to moves that make contact. This allowed it to function really well against stall as Grass Knot, Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt alone took on most stall teams.

Verdict: Negative impact

M-Slowbro: Slowbro gained a massive buff in its Defense stat allowing it to reach a total of 435 in its Defense stat uninvested while having a positive nature. It also got a great ability in Shell Armor, which made it immune to critical hits. These allowed it to invest more in the special side of its defense and gave popularity to the CM and Double Dance(Iron Defense+CM) sets.

Verdict: Positive impact

M-Sableye: The one that made the most impact of all, it gained a really good ability in Magic Bounce which made it reflects status and Taunt, it also has great utility moves in Knock Off and Foul Play while also being capable of running a CM set that allows it to function as a wincon on bulkier teams as it cannot be Taunted nor phazed due to Magic Bounce. Its typing makes it weak to only one type, Fairies, which means pokemon like Jirachi make for a great partner as it 2x resists Fairy types. Its typing allows it function as spinblocker too. It gets Prankster as an ability PreMEvo which allows it Will-O-Wisp or Calm Mind first, this often makes a lot difference in the short and long run.

Verdict: Positive impact

Trends that rose in usage to beat stall:

Swords Dance Gliscor:


This set in particular rapidly gained usage at the start of ORAS. Stall aims to stack hazards and win due to wearing down the opponent, Gliscor possesses a great ability in Poison Heal, which allows it to heal up 1/8th of its HP each turn after it's poisoned. Its typing makes it immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes while taking neutral damage from Stealth Rocks. Gliscor sets up on almost each and every stall team and even though Unaware users in Quagsire and Clefable exist, Gliscor beats them 1v1 because of the fact that SD Gliscor usually runs a SpDef set, and these mons can't afford to run Ice coverage just to beat it.

Stallbreaker Gengar:


Stallbreaker usually takes on Stall on its own. Nothing bar Chansey likes switching into this thing and then it gets shut down by Taunt when it does. M-Sableye might just be able to hold its own against Gengar if it's healthy enough but other than these, stall doesn't appreciate Gengar at all. Its typing is one of the factors that make it so good against stall, Poison/Ghost allow it to take on Gothitelle(non scarfed versions), Clefable, Chestnaught, Skarmory, Chansey, Cresselia and Quagsire with ease.

Mixed M-Metagross:


Mega Metagross terrifies stall to a really great extent. It got access to Tough Claws which boosted its moves that made contact meaning it gets an LO boost on every non STAB move that it hits. M-Metagross is a pain for stall to deal with because of the moves that its got access to. Grass Knot hits the likes of Quagsire, Slowbro(Mega) and Suicune while Zen Headbutt is for Chestnaught, M-Venusaur and Tentacruel. Meteor Mash is great against Fairy types like M-Altaria and Clefable while also dealing a good chunk to Gothitelle and Chansey, the last move is usually Hammer Arm to hit Heatran, Ferrothorn and also beat Skarmory 1v1 because it gives a speed drop so after a few turns of Hammer Arming, it hits Skamory for SE damage on the Roost because it's lost its Flying type by doing so.

TailGlow+RainDance Manaphy:


So this set originated in late XY if I'm not wrong. Manaphy is capable 6-0'ng almost all stall teams with this set, it doesn't have a hard time setting up an RD/TG and is an imminent threat to stall. Unaware users are susceptible to burns and a rain boosted STAB does a good chunk of damage anyway, it has a good ability in Hydration which cures status at the end of each of turn if rain is up, making this a pretty big threat to deal with. Tail Glow+Rain just plows through non Unaware users and almost every stall mon is set up fodder for this.


+4 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 252-297 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+6 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 333-393 (51.8 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+4 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye in Rain: 435-513 (143 - 168.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Quagsire in Rain: 232-274 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Unaware Clefable in Rain: 148-175 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery






Key Terms:

Entry Hazards: This is how stall teams rack up residual damage on opponents, they play a very essential part in stall teams. A couple of entry hazards,Spikes and Toxic Spikes, cause damage based on the layers that have been stacked.

  • Stealth Rock: Probably the most important of all, it hits most pokemon in the OU Metagame for neutral damage, and hits quite a few for 25% and 50% of their health. It wears down all pokemon and thus wears down any pokemon. In ORAS, it hampers the likes of Talonflame, Charizard, Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Dragonite, Gyarados and Altaria and thus plays a crucial role in pressuring the opponent to get hazards off the field.
  • Spikes: Unlike Stealth Rock, it doesn't damage the opponent based on type effectiveness but the number of layers that have been set up. The 1st layer takes away 1/8th, the 2nd layer takes away 1/6th and the 3rd layer takes away 1/4th of the HP of the pokemon. A maximum of 3 layers can be set up.
  • Toxic Spikes: This is the least used of all, Toxic Spikes can be set up for a maximum 2 layers. The first layer will inflict poison damage on the pokemon that switches in whereas the second layer will badly poison the pokemon and increase damage inflicted each turn until it switches out. Keep in mind that Toxic Spikes doesn't affect non grounded pokemon, Steel or Poison types. When a Poison type switches in on a Toxic spike, it abosrbs it and gives the effect of a Rapid Spin by removing it in doing so.
Status: This is another way in which stall teams inflict residual damage. The two statuses that wear opponents down are Burns and Toxic. Burn halves an opponent's Atk stat and deals about 12% damage each turn while Toxic damage increases each turn.

Status Absorber: A status absorber is a pokemon that is dedicated to sponging statuses. This makes for a very important part of a stall team as it's important that the team isn't worn down. These pokemon are status absorbers through abilities( Natural Cure Chansey) or typing(Amoonguss is Poison/Grass and hence is immune to Toxic).

Cleric: A cleric is a pokemon that can heal statuses of the pokemon on its own team, this is done with the moves Aromatherapy and Heal Bell. Common clerics on stall teams include Chansey, Clefable, Sylveon and M-Altaria.

(P)Hazer: A Hazer is a pokemon with the access to Haze, a move that rids the target of all stat boosts, common hazers include Amoonguss and Tentacruel. A Phazer is a pokemon with access to Roar/Whirlwind, these moves force a pokemon to switch out so it's helpful to deal with set up sweepers and inflict residual damage through the hazards that have been set up, common phazers include Skarmory, Hippowdon and Heatran. It should be noted that Roar/Whirlwind always go last.

Spinner: A spinner is a pokemon with access to the move Rapid Spin, a move that removes hazards from your side of the field, spinners on stall teams include Excadrill and Tentacruel. This makes for an important part of a stall team because having no hazard control means that every pokemon switching in is going to take residual damage and this will hamper it in the long run.

Spinblocker: A spinblocker is a pokemon that blocks the opponent from spinnning away hazards. Hazards are a stall team's primary method of dealing damage and if the opponent gets off a Rapid Spin, you have to spend many turns setting them up again. A spinblocker is a pokemon with Ghost typing that makes it immune to Rapid Spin which is a Normal type move. ORAS introduced us to a new spinblocker in the form of M-Sableye which is arguably better than Jellicent, a prime spinblocker in Gen 5.

Stallbreaker: A stallbreaker is a pokemon that is used to beat opposing stall teams. They aren't found on most stall teams and aren't necessary. A stallbreaker is a pokemon with the access to the move Taunt to shut down most pokemon found on stall teams to prevent phazing or hazards being set up or with access to good attacking stats. Stallbreakers should be taken into account when teambuilding because they definitely pack a punch and give a tough time to stall. A stallbreaker isn't limited only to Taunt users but also wallbreakers like M-Heracross, M-Medicham, Manaphy, and Kyurem-B to name a few.


Role Compendium:

Wish Passers:


Unaware users:


Clerics:


Hazard setters:


Wincons:

Hazard Control:


Physical Walls:


Special Walls:


Trapper(s):


Stallbreaker(s):


Phazers:


Hazers:


Pivots:




How to deal with threats to Stall: (Credit to SketchUp)

Bronzong, Jirachi, SpD Skarmory, Mega Scizor and SpD Victini are some of the few pokemon that can switch in against Mega Gardevoir. Chansey struggles to switch in, as a combination of Psyshock + Taunt can take Chansey down. However, Chansey 3hko's Mega Gardevoir with Seismic Toss so in a 1v1 situation it can beat Mega Gardevoir, though it will lose a big amount of health in the process

Set:
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt



Stallbreaker Talonflame is a big threat to stall because of a combination of Taunt, Roost and an immunity to burns. Taunt + Bulk Up can easily take down stall teams because they can't status, phaze or haze it.
Stone Edge / Ancient Power Heatran can kill Talonflame before it has set up. Mega Sableye beats sets without Bulk Up. Hippowdon can kill Talonflame with Stone Edge, but Will O Wisp can be very annoying, Zapdos can defeat this Talonflame set but Talonflame can still annoy Zapdos if it Taunts on the switch-in. Suicune, Slowbro and Starmie can hit Talonflame with pretty decent damage and they don't really care about burns.

Set:
Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Bulk Up/Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt



With Rain Dance, Manaphy can cure itself from status and prevent it from being worn down by Toxic. With Tail Glow, Manaphy is able to boost really fast and easily break through stall teams

How to beat TG RD Manaphy?
This depends on the coverage it runs. The only real safe answer is Unaware Clefable with some SpD investment, which still struggles with Scald burns and Rest sets. Mega Venusaur beats this set if it lacks Psychic. Suicune and Mega Slowbro can both set up if it lacks Energy Ball and win the CM / TG war. Ferrothorn with Power Whip also beats this set, but it has to watch out for Scald burns on the switch in. Haze / Perish Song Mega Altaria can stall Manaphy out if it lacks Ice Beam, but hazards and burns can still take Mega Altaria down. Perish Song Celebi, Roar Mega Latias and Roar Empoleon are also some pokemon that can phaze Manaphy depending on the coverage it runs. You can also trap it with Gothitelle.

Set:
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance
- Scald
- Energy Ball / Ice Beam / Psychic / Rest



Taunt + LO 3 Attacks is really annoying to beat. Chansey is a good switchin, but Taunt prevents recovery and Chansey's only attacking move in Seismic Toss can't hit Gengar.
Shadow Ball Blissey can take down Gengar in one hit without caring about Taunt. AV Tornadus-T can switch in and knock Gengar down with Hurricane or Knock Off. SpD Mandibuzz can take some hits and beat it with Foul Play and SpD Gliscor with Knock Off also beats Gengar. However, Gengar can also pull off sets like Wisp + Hex, Sub + Taunt or Sub + Disable. All these pokemon can still take on Gengar to an extent, but they struggle against some sets.

Set:
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Taunt



Stallbreaker Mew is really annoying for stall to face. The combination of Knock Off and Taunt+Will O Wisp is really hard face off against for most stall teams as it whittles them to a great extent.
Taunt Talonflame, M-Sableye and Gliscor are the only real answers to it on a Stall team and Heatran to an extent as well.

Set:
Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off


+SD/Taunt
Taunt: Mega Sableye easily beats this setand it sets up against it. Making your own Taunt Gliscor faster also works. Offensive Mega Venusaur works because Gliscor can't roost if it's fast. Ice coverage on random stuff [Amoonguss / Mew / Slowking] Regenerator stalling kinda helps, Starmie, Offensive Mega Slowbro.

SD: This set lacks Taunt so it is vulnerable to other pokemon. Quagsire, Unaware Clefable, Bulky Mega Scizor and Skarmory can beat SD Gliscor, but they can't beat Taunt Gliscor. SD Gliscor is beaten by the same pokemon as Taunt Gliscor, with the exception of Mega Sableye

Sets:
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 192 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Toxic / Knock Off
- Earthquake / Knock Off

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 192 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Earthquake



CM MG Clefable is very threatening to stall as it can't get worn down by hazards and it doesn't care about status. Calm Mind means it can boost without many problems.

The coverage in the 4th slot gives Clefable the opportunity to get past some of its counters, but there are still some pokemon that can beat it. Gothitelle can trap Clefable but it can't switch in against Knock Off, if you don't know the 4th coverage move, don't switch in directly. Mega Scizor beats non-flamethrower sets. Jirachi can beat this set but has to be aware of TWave. Taunt Heatran, Taunt Talonflame, Victini, CM Unaware or CM Stored Power Clefable, CM Psyshock Slowbro and CM Reuniclus can also beat Clefable.

Set:
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off / Thunder Wave / Flamethrower / Stored Power



Togekiss can boost with Nasty Plot and cure itself from status with Heal Bell. Pokemon like Chansey are setup fodder and can later be flinched to death.
Mega Scizor. Flash Cannon Heatran. Zapdos. Unaware Clefable but watch out for hax. Ferrothorn. Jirachi. SpD Skarmory. SpD Dragalge. Gothitelle can trap it but can't switch it in directly.

Set:
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 8 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Roost



Taunt DD Mega Gyarados can boost its already high attack stat and prevent itself from getting phazed or toxiced, Mold Breaker ignores Unaware.
Mega Altaria beats it with any set. Chesnaught is a full counter. Power Whip Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur beat it but if Gyarados doesn't mega evolve it can be annoying because the grass move won't do super effective damage. PDef Zapdos works. Hope for scald burns with Alomomola. Clefable can be a decent check to it too.

Set:
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Taunt



Gothitelle can trap and kill defensive pokemon such as Chansey and Quagsire, which leaves the stall team weak to Zard X / Zard Y / Bisharp / Whatever. You can't really prepare for Gothitelle if it is played well. Bisharp / Tyranitar can pursuit trap it, but it can still take down an important member of the stall team almost every match. Shadow Tag makes it different from other stallbreakers and you can't prepare for Gothitelle by putting pokemon X on your team. Only thing that really works is using stuff like Shed Shell Blissey, so you still have that pokemon for the opposing Zard Y / Gengar


Sample Teams:
Team #1 by CleanerthanRotom-W
M-Sableye Stall

Sableye @ Sableite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Snarl
-Will-O-Wisp

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
-Soft-Boiled
-Heal Bell
-Stealth Rock
-Seismic Toss

Cresselia @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
-Moonlight
-Toxic
-Skill Swap
-Psyshock

Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
-Psychic
-Calm Mind
-Rest
-Trick

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
-Roost
-Counter
-Defog
-Spikes

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
-Scald
-Earthquake
-Recover
-Toxic


Team #2 by Branflakes325
M-Sableye StallTurn(One of my favs)



Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- U-turn
- Rain Dance
- Rest

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Roost

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 48 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Moonlight




Team #3 by Firehusky and ABR
M-Sableye Semi Stall


Togekiss (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 128 HP / 204 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Roost

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 236 HP / 128 Def / 144 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Slack Off

Sableye (M) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Talonflame (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Will-O-Wisp
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball


Team #4 by bludz
M-Charizard X Semi Stall

reality tv slut (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Encore
- Soft-Boiled

i ate barney (Tornadus-Therian) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 156 HP / 100 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Knock Off
- U-turn

gimme ur lunch $ (Charizard) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 104 HP / 216 Atk / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost

want fries w/ that? (Slowking) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 36 SpA / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

pablo escobar (Hippowdon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

robot chicken (Skarmory) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Counter
- Whirlwind


Team #5:
M-Venusaur Semi-Stall by Snou

not scarf (Heatran) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge
- Flash Cannon

not curse (Venusaur) (F) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 220 HP / 104 Def / 168 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Sleep Powder

not cb (Hippowdon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Slack Off

not specs (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 32 SpD / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog

not drum (Clefable) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Def / 32 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast

not special (Crawdaunt) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance


Good Cores:

VenuTran:


This is a really solid core. Both pokemon cover each other's weaknesses really well. Venusaur takes on Water and Fighting types that Heatran is weak to like Azumarril and Conkeldurr while Heatran acts as a great check to Flying types such as Talonflame. They cover a lot of pokemon in the metagame such as Azumarril, Thundurus-I, Lati twins, Clefable, Talonflame and Keldeo. However, be wary of pokemon like Kyurem-B, M-Metagross and Landorus-I as they have a field day against this core. They form the FG of an FWG(Fire Water Grass) core so water types like Keldeo, Slowbro and Suicune make for good partners to them.

Heatran+M-Sableye:


This is an excellent core too, M-Sableye is only weak to one type, Fairies, and Heatran's typing makes it 4x resistant to Fairy moves. Azumarril, M-Altaria and M-Gardevoir are huge threats to this core though, Heatran is 2HKOed by Focus Blast while not being able to do much if it's not running Flash Cannon while M-Sableye is OHKOed by Hyper Voice. If Sableye has already Mega Evolved, it can't burn Azumarril or Altaria and hence get destroyed by the duo. Good partners include grass types like Amoonguss to handle Azumarril and M-Altaria(Special variants handled by Heatran).







Topics to discuss:
  • Is stall effective in the current metagame? Why?
  • What pokemon does stall struggle against?
  • How does Stall deal with top tier threats?
  • Is semi-stall better than full fledged stall in the current metagame?
PS: Feel free to PM me teams to add to the thread. I'd also appreciate what topics would you like to see discussed. Thanks.


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Last edited:
Great topic! Stall is actually a playstyle that takes lots of skill, although it does tend to make 10 year olds throw their computers out the windows. Anyways I think semi-stall is a lot better than full stall in the current metagame. With ORAS, lots of new powerful megas were added and there is no way you're going to be walling all those mons with just 6 slots.

Also here is a nice semi stall team by ABR that I love using and it's one of my favorites:


Togekiss (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 128 HP / 204 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Roost

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 236 HP / 128 Def / 144 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Slack Off

Sableye (M) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Talonflame (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Will-O-Wisp
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball


Uses the underrated togekiss which excels at breaking up stall teams. with hax

edit: Also teach me how you make those banners, they look simple yet nice :]
 

Analytic

夜明け
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Great topic! Stall is actually a playstyle that takes lots of skill, although it does tend to make 10 year olds throw their computers out the windows. Anyways I think semi-stall is a lot better than full stall in the current metagame. With ORAS, lots of new powerful megas were added and there is no way you're going to be walling all those mons with just 6 slots.

Also here is a nice semi stall team by ABR that I love using and it's one of my favorites:


Togekiss (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 128 HP / 204 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Roost

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 236 HP / 128 Def / 144 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Slack Off

Sableye (M) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Talonflame (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Will-O-Wisp
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball


edit: Also teach me how you make those banners, they look simple yet nice :]
Haha thanks man, I'm gonna add a section for semi stall too because it definitely does deserve a mention. The bannners are really simple to make, just download pixlr express on your phone and get back to me
 
Great topic! Stall is actually a playstyle that takes lots of skill, although it does tend to make 10 year olds throw their computers out the windows. Anyways I think semi-stall is a lot better than full stall in the current metagame. With ORAS, lots of new powerful megas were added and there is no way you're going to be walling all those mons with just 6 slots.

Also here is a nice semi stall team by ABR that I love using and it's one of my favorites:


Togekiss (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 128 HP / 204 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Roost

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 236 HP / 128 Def / 144 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Slack Off

Sableye (M) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Talonflame (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Will-O-Wisp
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball


Uses the underrated togekiss which excels at breaking up stall teams. with hax

edit: Also teach me how you make those banners, they look simple yet nice :]
Hey, I don't mean to pry but, can you just explain why M-Sableye has Fake Out. I love the team, it's just that bit that is a little confusing to me.
 
I think M-Gross and Stall-breaker Gengar being a detriment to stall is a bit of an over exaggeration if I say so myself. I think I've been more worried about a Mega Altaria sweep than M-Gross in a lot of situations I mean out of those things that are the biggest hindrances to stall I think Gothitelle should be what rose in usage to combat stall since Gothitelle rose around that time Manaphy starting gaining usage, evident by Branflakes team which was when that team was created.

Calm Mind Slowbro as in regular Slowbro should be added to list of wincons.

I feel like the walls section is just really bland. Pretty sure most of those things can be catered to be different walls while Cresselia is primarily a Special Wall in a lot of cases not a physical one.

Also no offense to ABR, but I don't think Team 4 is a good representation to establish any sort of stall even semi stall :/ I think it's a pretty mediocre team and foundation from what I've seen in the past and should not be what represents an efficient stall team when it's really just balance at that point and sort of just gets by cause you cheese ladder players who don't know what an M-Sableye answer is or are dumb founded by the concept of a stall-breaker. That's just me being blunt if we're gonna use this as a resource for stall.
 

DarkNostalgia

Fading in, fading out, on the edge of paradise
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Yeah Mega Metagross really doesn't 6-0 stall teams when you have the likes of Slowbro, which commonly runs more spdef investment to avoid the 2HKO from Grass Knot, Mega Sableye, Mega Scizor, Alomomola, Skarmory, Landorus-T, Garchomp etc. Gengar isn't exactly armageddon for stall when you consider Mega Sableye, Gliscor, Heatran, Tornadus-T, Tentacruel, Talonflame etc. are good answers for it.

Full-on stall really isn't that great, all stall teams really need a bulky win-con, such as Slowbro, Suicune, Manaphy, etc. The passiveness really isn't great in this meta.

Mega Sableye and Manaphy should be in the stallbreakers section as well. Also change the definition of stallbreaker, the way you've worded it kinda implies all stallbreakers must have Taunt, which is not true, because SD Gliscor, Manaphy, and Gothitelle don't carry it. I don't know how you could word it, but something along the lines of shutting down stall teams b/c of access to Taunt, immunity to status, ability to cripple common stall mons could work.
 

Unlucky Desperado

Banned deucer.
Shocked that you haven't mentioned Mega Heracross. Although Talonflame can be quite common in its specially defensive variants on both stall and semi-stall, it can still hit extremely hard, especially it's Swords Dance variant. I also feel like Bronzong's typing lets it be a better special wall.

If you are looking for more common threats to stall, Crawdaunt
 

Analytic

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I think M-Gross and Stall-breaker Gengar being a detriment to stall is a bit of an over exaggeration if I say so myself. I think I've been more worried about a Mega Altaria sweep than M-Gross in a lot of situations I mean out of those things that are the biggest hindrances to stall I think Gothitelle should be what rose in usage to combat stall since Gothitelle rose around that time Manaphy starting gaining usage, evident by Branflakes team which was when that team was created.
Well, teams usually carry a Skarmory or Amoonguss as an Altaria check but I see where you're getting at. M-Metagross usually has a better time doing well against stall because of its coverage like I mentioned and M-Altaria of any variant almost certainly is checked by at least one mon.


I feel like the walls section is just really bland. Pretty sure most of those things can be catered to be different walls while Cresselia is primarily a Special Wall in a lot of cases not a physical one.
I thought that too, what do you suggest?


Yeah Mega Metagross really doesn't 6-0 stall teams when you have the likes of Slowbro, which commonly runs more spdef investment to avoid the 2HKO from Grass Knot, Mega Sableye, Mega Scizor, Alomomola, Skarmory, Landorus-T, Garchomp etc. Gengar isn't exactly armageddon for stall when you consider Mega Sableye, Gliscor, Heatran, Tornadus-T, Tentacruel, Talonflame etc. are good answers for it.

Full-on stall really isn't that great, all stall teams really need a bulky win-con, such as Slowbro, Suicune, Manaphy, etc. The passiveness really isn't great in this meta.

Mega Sableye and Manaphy should be in the stallbreakers section as well. Also change the definition of stallbreaker, the way you've worded it kinda implies all stallbreakers must have Taunt, which is not true, because SD Gliscor, Manaphy, and Gothitelle don't carry it. I don't know how you could word it, but something along the lines of shutting down stall teams b/c of access to Taunt, immunity to status, ability to cripple common stall mons could work.
Agree, gonna make these changes in a bit.

Shocked that you haven't mentioned Mega Heracross. Although Talonflame can be quite common in its specially defensive variants on both stall and semi-stall, it can still hit extremely hard, especially it's Swords Dance variant. I also feel like Bronzong's typing lets it be a better special wall.

If you are looking for more common threats to stall, Crawdaunt
You're correct. I'm gonna add a Threatlist to stall by tomorrow in which I will cover all these threats.

PS: If someone finds a Heatran team preview sprite, please lmk
 

bludz

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I would say Gliscor and Heatran are other stallbreakers that can find their way onto stallish teams. I also think that despite clerics being very popular, status absorbers might also be a section worth having. Things like RestTalk Gyarados, Gliscor, CM Rest/RD Manaphy, Mega Sableye and MG Clefable are good examples that provide a nice switch-in to moves like Toxic which otherwise force a wasted turn on a Heal Bell later.

I'm not much of a stall player but I enjoy some semi-stall teams and Tornadus-T is a pretty cool pokemon for these teams. It helps keep momentum and some kind of offensive presence thanks to its speed tier and wide movepool.

Also, is this the Heatran sprite you're looking for?

 

AD impish john

Consumed by Darkness...
You should add for Trends that in Usage to beat Stall: Mega Gardevoir.

Since XY Mega Gardevoir has been threat to most Stall teams as Mega Sableye and Venusaur fear it. Not Many Pokemon want to take a hit from its powerful STAB moves. Hyper Voice hits through substitutes making any Pokemon not safe. Having nice coverage Focus Blast can hit steel types such as Heatran. It also gets Taunt, stopping any pokemon that can set up on it. I know it isn't the biggest threat for Stall for it is worth to mention.
 
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Analytic

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Honestly I am surprised that nothing about Mega-Latias was written here. It can function as a great win condition with the Stored Power set or even the two attack CM variant that is gaining popularity recently.
Will add that too
 
Well, teams usually carry a Skarmory or Amoonguss as an Altaria check but I see where you're getting at. M-Metagross usually has a better time doing well against stall because of its coverage like I mentioned and M-Altaria of any variant almost certainly is checked by at least one mon.
I mean....barely? Like Mega Altaria surpasses whatever coverage Metagross is running for the fact it has longevity and the defensive utility to give stall teams a run for its money and Amoonguss becomes this shotty check when you account for residual damage, Skarmory is more or less gonna have to run Shed Shell on a stall team because it's going to be the secondary defensive check to Mega Altaria so easier to wear down without leftovers, which in reality doesn't actually beat anyways in the context of how this game is actually played and the fact stall teams that have most of their mons trapped by Gothitelle and Wobbuffet is an enormous liability in and of itself. Yeah in theory Mega Metagross seems like this enormous detriment to stall when the reality is that most of its defensive checks are splashable water mons and fat grounds for stall teams like slightly invested SpDef Suicune, Calm Mind and Rocky Helmet SpDef invested Slowbro, Alomomola, Garchomp, Ferrothorn. Yeah I stated Ferrothorn as a check because the realistic nature is that a lot of times M-Metagross against a stall team is relying on netting the right coverage move on a switch in and more or less not getting stall out and or burned. This isn't even really touching upon very niche stuff like Gourgeist Super that can slow it down as well. M-Altaria doesn't have this problem because it can both heal itself and take care of status. And this is why I think it's more of a threat because after you remove M-Altarias checks and counters with most of them being Spike weak it'll take one Dragon Dance to clean and that's more than likely going to be good game. So in theory yes M-Metagross is a huge detriment to stall, in practice it's a completely different story or at least a different story if we're implying that we're talking about well built stall and not these semi stall builds that kind of just get by going off of these basic glue cores that anyone can see coming from a mile away.
I thought that too, what do you suggest?
I'll probably answer this later today and just provide you a list of what I personally think it should look like.
 

DennisEG

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I think Semi-Stall is just better right now simply because there way to many threats and its impossible to cover all, so semi-stall with a nice core of 3-4 mons u can at least have a switch in for a few threat and the other 2 mons of the team can be Pivots like Torn-T or Scarf mons to revenge. My idea of semi-stall is 3 defensive mons with reliable recover, 1 stallbreaker, 1 pivot/offensive mon, 1 cleric/fat win con mon. At least Gardevoir shit on every full stall bar they have SpDef Bronzong or some Chopple Steel
 

trc

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is "full stall" even a thing in oras anymore? like i guess you have the cleaner team and the mega sableye ones and stuff but i find it so hard to justify full full stall over balance at this point, semistall at the most. because you can't prepare for everything, if you're running full stall and you face that ice beam / fusion bolt / hp fire / iron head kyu-b or that stallbreaker talon or gardevoir or that manaphy with the perfect coverage, you can't beat it with your faster mon, you just straight up lose.
 

Analytic

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is "full stall" even a thing in oras anymore? like i guess you have the cleaner team and the mega sableye ones and stuff but i find it so hard to justify full full stall over balance at this point, semistall at the most. because you can't prepare for everything, if you're running full stall and you face that ice beam / fusion bolt / hp fire / iron head kyu-b or that stallbreaker talon or gardevoir or that manaphy with the perfect coverage, you can't beat it with your faster mon, you just straight up lose.
I agree, I'm writing up paragraphs on this right now
 
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I think Semi-Stall is just better right now simply because there way to many threats and its impossible to cover all, so semi-stall with a nice core of 3-4 mons u can at least have a switch in for a few threat and the other 2 mons of the team can be Pivots like Torn-T or Scarf mons to revenge. My idea of semi-stall is 3 defensive mons with reliable recover, 1 stallbreaker, 1 pivot/offensive mon, 1 cleric/fat win con mon. At least Gardevoir shit on every full stall bar they have SpDef Bronzong or some Chopple Steel
I find Jirachi or SPD Mega Scizor pretty good stops to mega gardevoir on full stall.

In addition they are good Kube stops and can stop the Lati@s and a variety of other mons also.
 

DennisEG

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I find Jirachi or SPD Mega Scizor pretty good stops to mega gardevoir on full stall.

In addition they are good Kube stops and can stop the Lati@s and a variety of other mons also.
Yes that's true both mons are gud Garde Switch ins although Kyu-B / Lati twins even Garde can run HP fire so depends on coverage but Scizor is nice check, but im not sure about Jirachi, simply because Lati twins can run EQ, Kyu-B LO Earth Power 2HKO'ed, only and always stop Garde for sure.
 
Yes that's true both mons are gud Garde Switch ins although Kyu-B / Lati twins even Garde can run HP fire so depends on coverage but Scizor is nice check, but im not sure about Jirachi, simply because Lati twins can run EQ, Kyu-B LO Earth Power 2HKO'ed, only and always stop Garde for sure.
0 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 172-203 (42.5 - 50.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 125-148 (30.9 - 36.6%)
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 190-226 (47 - 55.9%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That is max special power special set which means it lacks physical power so chansey can wall it.
 

DennisEG

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0 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 172-203 (42.5 - 50.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 125-148 (30.9 - 36.6%)
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 190-226 (47 - 55.9%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That is max special power special set which means it lacks physical power so chansey can wall it.
We are not talking about what walls what, u said that Jirachi was a switch for those mons which it isnt after rocks clearly with ur calcs. Of course there is one mon the wall another in stall that's why it is stall after all u build to check the most part of the metagame but definitely those steel are a switch in for Gardevoir
 
where is zapdos? it can be under hazard control, physical wall, phazer, and pivot. its one of the few things on stall that can actually beat taunt SD or stallbreaker talonflame. it can use volt switch to pivot. and it has defog which is obviously useful for stall. plus i see zapdos a lot more now on stall on the pokemonshowdown ladder. for example i was watching mob barley and he was using a zapdos on an unaware stall team.
 

Analytic

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I mean Zapdos isn't the best mon to have for stall, Defog actually conflicts with the idea of a stall team. The main goal of a stall team is to rack as many hazards as possible and win via residual damage, Defog conflicts with that. If you've noticed, I've only put MB and Rapid Spinners under hazard control because Rapid Spin only rids hazards from your side of the field while Defog does it for both sides. I can definitely add it under the Pivots and Phazers section and Physical wall but putting it in Hazard control isn't a good idea
 
I would say that rather than the aim being to rack up residual damage, the aim should be to "not lose". As such, I don't think defog conflicts with stall at all, it's a boon considering the number of mons that get defog compared to rapid spin.

In fact I don't even like spike stalling that much considering how common defog is. Spikes work, but honestly I think offense might benefit more from it. Especially since stall just doesn't have the offensive presence to deter people from using defog/rapid spin on you.

P.S. I like the other thread better already, it just seems to discuss stall overall more than just for ORAS. No idea why you felt the need to make a new one. It's still on the first page even...
 
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