Resource Stall in ORAS

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i disagree with you Analytic. have you ever played stall before? have you ever seen good stall teams? defog is very common on stall. in fact, one of the teams you listed has defog on skarmory. i think defog is beneficial for stall because they have long-lasting hazard setters. offensive teams have frail hazard setters so they will usually die first. stall almost always wins the hazard war vs offense because of this. also, the stall team that has defog will always come out on top versus stall teams that dont. this is because mega-sableye can easily just continue spinblocking which just keeps adding more pressure on your team. stall needs to get rid of hazards because offensive teams can just double switch a lot and wear everything down with hazards. if offense has a spinblocker, stall is basically screwed. defog is a more reliable way to control hazards.
 
I was about to bring up Zapdos but Limelight beat me to it. (incidentally, Defog is a great option on Semi-stall especially because it's far less reliant on hazards and being able to Volt Switch after the Defog is quite useful) So instead, I'm going to say that Blissey is definitely worth mentioning under special wall, cleric, and wishpasser. It has some key advantages over Chansey which you already know - not Knock Off weak, really cool coverage, can actually beat Gengar without PP stalling, Lefties recovery. It definitely deserves mentioning.
 
On the topic of PP stalling, this is probably one of the less noted things for stall, but while offense pretty much never has to care for how much PP remains, it is a situation that can come up pretty often for stall teams.

Abilities like Pressure decrease PP at a faster rate, and SansNickel's old XY team was like the epitome of that. It worked amazingly at breaking other stall teams. On things like Chansey, it is sometimes better to switch out and take damage on something else rather than to use a precious Heal Bell PP to cure itself.

Gothitelle tricks scarf into SR, and it can be beneficial to let it run out of SR PP before you defog and get rid of it once and for all, rather than kill the Pokemon. It stops them from ever getting momentum on you from hazards. There are probably deeper explanations but I can't think of them right now.

Edit: Why is Skarmory under Stallbreakers?
 
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SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
Skarmory still won't be breaking stall with Taunt because there are a few pokemon who are all very common on stall that can take on Taunt Skarmory: Mega Sableye of course doesn't care, Heatran can easily switch in and force it out with Lava Plume, Taunt / SD Gliscor, Zapdos, SpD Zard-X / Zard-Y / Talon / Victini doesn't like the hazards but they can easily switch in against a bb / ih are some pokemon that can take on Taunt Skarmory without many problems. So no, Skarmory is not a stallbreaker
 
I would say that rather than the aim being to rack up residual damage, the aim should be to "not lose". As such, I don't think defog conflicts with stall at all, it's a boon considering the number of mons that get defog compared to rapid spin.
defog is very common on stall. in fact, one of the teams you listed has defog on skarmory. i think defog is beneficial for stall because they have long-lasting hazard setters.
Skarmory still won't be breaking stall with Taunt because there are a few pokemon who are all very common on stall that can take on Taunt Skarmory: Mega Sableye of course doesn't care, Heatran can easily switch in and force it out with Lava Plume, Taunt / SD Gliscor, Zapdos, SpD Zard-X / Zard-Y / Talon / Victini doesn't like the hazards but they can easily switch in against a bb / ih are some pokemon that can take on Taunt Skarmory without many problems. So no, Skarmory is not a stallbreaker

Agree, I'll make the changes.
 

AM

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I would say that rather than the aim being to rack up residual damage, the aim should be to "not lose". As such, I don't think defog conflicts with stall at all, it's a boon considering the number of mons that get defog compared to rapid spin.

In fact I don't even like spike stalling that much considering how common defog is. Spikes work, but honestly I think offense might benefit more from it. Especially since stall just doesn't have the offensive presence to deter people from using defog/rapid spin on you.

P.S. I like the other thread better already, it just seems to discuss stall overall more than just for ORAS. No idea why you felt the need to make a new one. It's still on the first page even...
I don't agree with Spikes not being useful for stall, in fact most "stall" teams I would like to think it's basically a necessity at this point, with all the threats in need of being taken account for and most of them prone to spikes or at least the really dangerous ones. This is regardless if you're using Defog or Rapid Spin.

The whole argument of Defog + hazards being counter productive I think is somewhat false as well. Defog + hazards works when the necessity of hazard removal is needed on a team is a perfectly fine option to myself. Hazards on these kinds of teams are designed to pressure opposing mons from the start and in the end remove their hazard remover and then rack up your hazard damage. Defog would be an emergency asset. Sure you can use Rapid Spinners but Starmie is pursuit trappable and easily exploitable through Scarftars and general cleaners and the majority of other Rapid Spinners lack recovery. Things like Zapdos, Mandibuzz, Empoleon, and Skarmory don't have to worry about this form of trapping more so Gothitelle which is a whole other animal in regards to trapping for stall teams to deal with.
 
I think it kind of depends on what sort of team you are running. For example the point of full stall is to outlast your opponent which is something made more difficult by the presence of hazards on your side. Therefore you need to a method of getting rid of said hazards whether you have a m-sable or another mega. Most viable rapid spinners are not that great on full stall. Pretty much only starmie/exca/tenta can do the job and two of those have no self-recovery so are weak to the very same hazards they are trying to get rid of as well as chip damage and other things. Whereas on the other hand there are many great defoggers available who through either natural bulk or moveset can do a great job of cleaning hazards off your side of the field (which is your primary objective when running full stall) and remain healthy.

Semi-stall has much more options as its a lot easier to fit a spinner on your team.

So i dont sound like a complete parrot of AM can Dragalge be considered as a hazer?

Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Haze

With maximum SpD investment any special attack that is not super effective hits like a wet noodle and he can easily haze away any calm mind or nasty plot stacks. Can also go mixed defenses to have a better chance of getting rid of melee attacking stats. Also hits hard as well with adaptability so its not completely passive.
 
I think it kind of depends on what sort of team you are running. For example the point of full stall is to outlast your opponent which is something made more difficult by the presence of hazards on your side. Therefore you need to a method of getting rid of said hazards whether you have a m-sable or another mega. Most viable rapid spinners are not that great on full stall. Pretty much only starmie/exca/tenta can do the job and two of those have no self-recovery so are weak to the very same hazards they are trying to get rid of as well as chip damage and other things. Whereas on the other hand there are many great defoggers available who through either natural bulk or moveset can do a great job of cleaning hazards off your side of the field (which is your primary objective when running full stall) and remain healthy.

Semi-stall has much more options as its a lot easier to fit a spinner on your team.

So i dont sound like a complete parrot of AM can Dragalge be considered as a hazer?

Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Haze

With maximum SpD investment any special attack that is not super effective hits like a wet noodle and he can easily haze away any calm mind or nasty plot stacks. Can also go mixed defenses to have a better chance of getting rid of melee attacking stats. Also hits hard as well with adaptability so its not completely passive.
I'll add this in a few
 

AM

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I think it kind of depends on what sort of team you are running. For example the point of full stall is to outlast your opponent which is something made more difficult by the presence of hazards on your side. Therefore you need to a method of getting rid of said hazards whether you have a m-sable or another mega. Most viable rapid spinners are not that great on full stall. Pretty much only starmie/exca/tenta can do the job and two of those have no self-recovery so are weak to the very same hazards they are trying to get rid of as well as chip damage and other things. Whereas on the other hand there are many great defoggers available who through either natural bulk or moveset can do a great job of cleaning hazards off your side of the field (which is your primary objective when running full stall) and remain healthy.

Semi-stall has much more options as its a lot easier to fit a spinner on your team.

So i dont sound like a complete parrot of AM can Dragalge be considered as a hazer?

Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Haze

With maximum SpD investment any special attack that is not super effective hits like a wet noodle and he can easily haze away any calm mind or nasty plot stacks. Can also go mixed defenses to have a better chance of getting rid of melee attacking stats. Also hits hard as well with adaptability so its not completely passive.
Shruggy I'm not a huuuuge fan of Dragalge as a hazer / phaser simply cause it's actually not gonna halt a whole lot of things assuming we're going with your spread or just spdef dragalge in general that it already handles with a more offensive variant. I think Dragon Tail Dragalge worked well maybe like....3 months ago ish or around that period where no one was really thinking Dragalge was a big threat but as far as special defensive set goes I'd rather apply the investment and just have attacks / TSpikes. But in almost all of these teams I'm more than likely going to be using offensive Dragalge, 3 attacks / Tspikes since the speed investment breaks down slower cores and can still pivot well into things like Charizard-Y and Keldeo in a clutch while forcing them out in most cases. It also comes down to the fact that outside of Clefable Mega Altaria is more than likely defensively checking Char-Y, Thundurus, Keldeo, all those things in one package and going specially defensive on Dragalge makes Clefable somewhat of a pain due to lack of power and lack of recovery and speed.

However, Dragalge is nice on semi-stall teams or just the kinds where hazard stacking is emphasized but I dont remember the last time where I would use SpDef Dragalge though. Some people like it though so can't really write it off. My two cents I suppose.
 

bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Well the team archive is looking a little thin so I'll drop a semi-stall team that I made here:

reality tv slut (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Encore
- Soft-Boiled

i ate barney (Tornadus-Therian) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 156 HP / 100 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Knock Off
- U-turn

gimme ur lunch $ (Charizard) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 104 HP / 216 Atk / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost

want fries w/ that? (Slowking) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 36 SpA / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

pablo escobar (Hippowdon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

robot chicken (Skarmory) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Counter
- Whirlwind


Not gonna go into too much detail (I may choose to drop this in the Sample Team thread in which case I will delve into more) but basically Zard X is not bulky Will-O-Wisp because otherwise the team has almost no form of offensive pressure. Potential move changes are things like Ice Beam > Fire Blast on Slowking, Heat Wave > HP [Ice] on Torn-T, Thunderbolt (or Flamethrower) > Encore on Clefable, Dragon Claw > Earthquake on Zard X. I've experimented with a bunch of these changes and ultimately feel that maybe Tbolt on Clefable is the best change although I find Encore to be very useful a lot of the time.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
The role compendium should change some things (Phazers, Dugtrio on stall etc.) but now I mainly want to focus on Stallbreakers
Not including wallbreakers such as Mega Zard Y and Kyurem-B every team needs to prepare for but just Stallbreakers only. What are the common sets for these pokemon and how do the stall teams deal with these pokemon


This pokemon should be added because of the Taunt 3 Attacks set which can take on stall teams pretty easily. Mega Gardevoir does heavy damage with Hyper Voice and special walls are hurt heavily by Psyshock.
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
How to beat Mega Gardevoir?
Bronzong, Jirachi, SpD Skarmory, Mega Scizor and SpD Victini are some of the few pokemon that can switch in against Mega Gardevoir. Chansey struggles to switch in, as a combination of Psyshock + Taunt can take Chansey down. However, Chansey 3hko's Mega Gardevoir with Seismic Toss so in a 1v1 situation it can beat Mega Gardevoir, though it will lose a big amount of health in the proces.


Stallbreaker Talonflame is a big threat to stall because of a combination of Taunt, Roost and an immunity to burns. Taunt + Bulk Up can easily take down stall teams because they can't status, phaze or haze it.
Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
How to beat Stallbreaker Talonflame?
Stone Edge / Ancient Power Heatran can kill Talonflame before it has set up. Mega Sableye beats sets without Bulk Up. Hippowdon can kill Talonflame with Stone Edge, but Will O Wisp can be very annoying, Zapdos can defeat this Talonflame set but Talonflame can still annoy Zapdos if it Taunts on the switch-in. Suicune, Slowbro and Starmie can hit Talonflame with pretty decent damage and they don't really care about burns.


With Rain Dance, Manaphy can cure itself from status and prevent it from being worn down by Toxic. With Tail Glow, Manaphy is able to boost really fast and easily break through stall teams
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance
- Scald
- Energy Ball / Ice Beam / Psychic / Rest
How to beat TG RD Manaphy?
This depends on the coverage it runs. The only real safe answer is Unaware Clefable with some SpD investment, which still struggles with Scald burns and Rest sets. Mega Venusaur beats this set if it lacks Psychic. Suicune and Mega Slowbro can both set up if it lacks Energy Ball and win the CM / TG war. Ferrothorn with Power Whip also beats this set, but it has to watch out for Scald burns on the switch in. Haze / Perish Song Mega Altaria can stall Manaphy out if it lacks Ice Beam, but hazards and burns can still take Mega Altaria down. Perish Song Celebi, Roar Mega Latias and Roar Empoleon are also some pokemon that can phaze Manaphy depending on the coverage it runs. You can also trap it with Gothitelle.


Gengar should also be added because Taunt + LO 3 Attacks is really annoying to beat. Chansey is a good switchin, but Taunt prevents recovery and Chansey's only attacking move in Seismic Toss can't hit Gengar.
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
How to beat Taunt LO Gengar?
Shadow Ball Blissey can take down Gengar in one hit without caring about Taunt. AV Tornadus-T can switch in and knock Gengar down with Hurricane or Knock Off. SpD Mandibuzz can take some hits and beat it with Foul Play and SpD Gliscor with Knock Off also beats Gengar. However, Gengar can also pull off sets like Wisp + Hex, Sub + Taunt or Sub + Disable. All these pokemon can still take on Gengar to an extent, but they struggle against some sets.


Heatran can trap a pokemon for a few turns and prevent recovery with Taunt. Toxic is also an option to wear the opposing pokemon down even further while they can't escape.
Heatran @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic
How to beat Magma Storm Heatran?
Starmie, Slowbro, EQ Mega Altaria, Slowking, Gliscor, Suicune, Hippowdon, Alomomola. There are many options to switch in but the real threat is that Magma Storm can come as a surprise and trap Chansey. The residual damage from Toxic + Magma Storm and Taunt also shuts down recovery. Also be aware of Solar Beam!


The most infamous stallbreaker from XY lost some power in ORAS because of Mega Sableye. However, Mew can still take on stall teams without Mega Sableye without many problems.
Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off / Psychic
How to beat Taunt Mew if you lack Mega Sableye?
Taunt Talonflame, Taunt Gliscor, SpD Victini if Psychic, Regenerator stall it with Alomomola / Amoonguss / Tornadus-T / Slowbro but keep your hazards down! SpD Zards. If you don't have one of those just /forfeit

+ Taunt
Taunt Gliscor is similar to Mew but with a 4x Ice Weakness and a faster Taunt.
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 192 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Toxic / Knock Off
- Earthquake / Knock Off
How to beat Taunt Gliscor?
Mega Sableye easily beats this set and it sets up against it. Making your own Taunt Gliscor faster also works. Offensive Mega Venusaur works because Gliscor can't roost if it's fast. Ice coverage on random stuff [Amoonguss / Mew / Slowking] Regenerator stalling kinda helps, Starmie, Offensive Mega Slowbro.

+SD
Gliscor can also use a SD set to beat Mega Sableye 1v1. How to deal with this set?
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 192 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
This set lacks Taunt so it is vulnerable to other pokemon. Quagsire, Unaware Clefable, Bulky Mega Scizor and Skarmory can beat SD Gliscor, but they can't beat Taunt Gliscor. SD Gliscor is beaten by the same pokemon as Taunt Gliscor, with the exception of Mega Sableye

Also add this. CM MG Clefable is very threatening to stall as it can't get worn down by hazards and it doesn't care about status. Calm Mind means it can boost without many problems. How to beat Clefable?
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off / Thunder Wave / Flamethrower / Stored Power
The coverage in the 4th slot gives Clefable the opportunity to get past some of its counters, but there are still some pokemon that can beat it. Gothitelle can trap Clefable but it can't switch in against Knock Off, if you don't know the 4th coverage move, don't switch in directly. Mega Scizor beats non-flamethrower sets. Jirachi can beat this set but has to be aware of TWave. Taunt Heatran, Taunt Talonflame, Victini, CM Unaware or CM Stored Power Clefable, CM Psyshock Slowbro and CM Reuniclus can also beat Clefable


Togekiss can boost with Nasty Plot and cure itself from status with Heal Bell. Pokemon like Chansey are setup fodder and can later be haxed to dead.
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 8 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Roost
How to beat NP Togekiss?
Mega Scizor. Flash Cannon Heatran. Zapdos. Unaware Clefable but watch out for hax. Ferrothorn. Jirachi. SpD Skarmory. SpD Dragalge. Gothitelle can trap it I guess.


Taunt DD Mega Gyarados can boost its already high attack stat and prevent itself from getting phazed or toxicced. Mold Breaker ignores both Unaware and Magic Guard. How to beat this beast?
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Taunt
How to beat DD Taunt MGyarados?
Mega Altaria beats it with Hyper Voice and can Perish Song / Haze if necessary. Chesnaught is a full counter. Power Whip Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur beat it but if Gyarados doesn't mega evolve it can be annoying because the grass move won't do super effective damage. PDef Zapdos works. Hope for scald burns with Alomomola.


Gothitelle can trap and kill defensive pokemon such as Chansey and Quagsire, which leaves the stall team weak to Zard X / Zard Y / Bisharp / Whatever. You can't really prepare for Gothitelle if it is played well. Bisharp / Tyranitar can pursuit trap it, but it can still take down an important member of the stall team almost every match. Shadow Tag makes it different from other stallbreakers and you can't prepare for Gothitelle by putting pokemon X on your team. Only thing that really works is using stuff like Shed Shell Blissey, so you still have that pokemon for the opposing Zard Y / Gengar / Landorus.


Taunt + NP / SD / Leaf Storm are really annoying for stall because they boost fast and they prevent status and healing. I feel like these pokemon should also be added to the Stallbreaker session but I will add the ''How to beat'' part later.

Analytic
I'm kinda confused if the stallbreaker session is only meant for pokemon that fit on (semi-)stall or for all pokemon that can break stall. If it is the latter, I should add Clefable, Gothitelle, Gengar, Gardevoir, Houndoom, Haxorus and Serperior to stallbreakers. If it is the former, I should only add Gothitelle and Clefable because the other pokemon are not relevant for stall teams
 
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The role compendium should change some things (Phazers, Dugtrio on stall etc.) but now I mainly want to focus on Stallbreakers
Not including wallbreakers such as Mega Zard Y and Kyurem-B every team needs to prepare for but just Stallbreakers only. What are the common sets for these pokemon and how do the stall teams deal with these pokemon


This pokemon should be added because of the Taunt 3 Attacks set which can take on stall teams pretty easily. Mega Gardevoir does heavy damage with Hyper Voice and special walls are hurt heavily by Psyshock.
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
How to beat Mega Gardevoir?
Bronzong, Jirachi, SpD Skarmory, Mega Scizor and SpD Victini are some of the few pokemon that can switch in against Mega Gardevoir. Chansey struggles to switch in, as a combination of Psyshock + Taunt can take Chansey down. However, Chansey 3hko's Mega Gardevoir with Seismic Toss so in a 1v1 situation it can beat Mega Gardevoir, though it will lose a big amount of health in the proces.


Stallbreaker Talonflame is a big threat to stall because of a combination of Taunt, Roost and an immunity to burns. Taunt + Bulk Up can easily take down stall teams because they can't status, phaze or haze it.
Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
How to beat Stallbreaker Talonflame?
Stone Edge / Ancient Power Heatran can kill Talonflame before it has set up. Mega Sableye beats sets without Bulk Up. Hippowdon can kill Talonflame with Stone Edge, but Will O Wisp can be very annoying, Zapdos can defeat this Talonflame set but Talonflame can still annoy Zapdos if it Taunts on the switch-in. Suicune, Slowbro and Starmie can hit Talonflame with pretty decent damage and they don't really care about burns.


With Rain Dance, Manaphy can cure itself from status and prevent it from being worn down by Toxic. With Tail Glow, Manaphy is able to boost really fast and easily break through stall teams
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance
- Scald
- Energy Ball / Ice Beam / Psychic / Rest
How to beat TG RD Manaphy?
This depends on the coverage it runs. The only real safe answer is Unaware Clefable with some SpD investment, which still struggles with Scald burns and Rest sets. Mega Venusaur beats this set if it lacks Psychic. Suicune and Mega Slowbro can both set up if it lacks Energy Ball and win the CM / TG war. Ferrothorn with Power Whip also beats this set, but it has to watch out for Scald burns on the switch in. Haze / Perish Song Mega Altaria can stall Manaphy out if it lacks Ice Beam, but hazards and burns can still take Mega Altaria down. Perish Song Celebi, Roar Mega Latias and Roar Empoleon are also some pokemon that can phaze Manaphy depending on the coverage it runs. You can also trap it with Gothitelle.


Gengar should also be added because Taunt + LO 3 Attacks is really annoying to beat. Chansey is a good switchin, but Taunt prevents recovery and Chansey's only attacking move in Seismic Toss can't hit Gengar.
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
How to beat Taunt LO Gengar?
Shadow Ball Blissey can take down Gengar in one hit without caring about Taunt. AV Tornadus-T can switch in and knock Gengar down with Hurricane or Knock Off. SpD Mandibuzz can take some hits and beat it with Foul Play and SpD Gliscor with Knock Off also beats Gengar. However, Gengar can also pull off sets like Wisp + Hex, Sub + Taunt or Sub + Disable. All these pokemon can still take on Gengar to an extent, but they struggle against some sets.


Heatran can trap a pokemon for a few turns and prevent recovery with Taunt. Toxic is also an option to wear the opposing pokemon down even further while they can't escape.
Heatran @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic
How to beat Magma Storm Heatran?
Starmie, Slowbro, EQ Mega Altaria, Slowking, Gliscor, Suicune, Hippowdon, Alomomola. There are many options to switch in but the real threat is that Magma Storm can come as a surprise and trap Chansey. The residual damage from Toxic + Magma Storm and Taunt also shuts down recovery. Also be aware of Solar Beam!


The most infamous stallbreaker from XY lost some power in ORAS because of Mega Sableye. However, Mew can still take on stall teams without Mega Sableye without many problems.
Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off / Psychic
How to beat Taunt Mew if you lack Mega Sableye?
Taunt Talonflame, Taunt Gliscor, SpD Victini if Psychic, Regenerator stall it with Alomomola / Amoonguss / Tornadus-T / Slowbro but keep your hazards down! SpD Zards. If you don't have one of those just /forfeit

+ Taunt
Taunt Gliscor is similar to Mew but with a 4x Ice Weakness and a faster Taunt.
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 192 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Toxic / Knock Off
- Earthquake / Knock Off
How to beat Taunt Gliscor?
Mega Sableye easily beats this set and it sets up against it. Making your own Taunt Gliscor faster also works. Offensive Mega Venusaur works because Gliscor can't roost if it's fast. Ice coverage on random stuff [Amoonguss / Mew / Slowking] Regenerator stalling kinda helps, Starmie, Offensive Mega Slowbro.

+SD
Gliscor can also use a SD set to beat Mega Sableye 1v1. How to deal with this set?
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 192 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
This set lacks Taunt so it is vulnerable to other pokemon. Quagsire, Unaware Clefable, Bulky Mega Scizor and Skarmory can beat SD Gliscor, but they can't beat Taunt Gliscor. SD Gliscor is beaten by the same pokemon as Taunt Gliscor, with the exception of Mega Sableye

Also add this. CM MG Clefable is very threatening to stall as it can't get worn down by hazards and it doesn't care about status. Calm Mind means it can boost without many problems. How to beat Clefable?
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off / Thunder Wave / Flamethrower / Stored Power
The coverage in the 4th slot gives Clefable the opportunity to get past some of its counters, but there are still some pokemon that can beat it. Gothitelle can trap Clefable but it can't switch in against Knock Off, if you don't know the 4th coverage move, don't switch in directly. Mega Scizor beats non-flamethrower sets. Jirachi can beat this set but has to be aware of TWave. Taunt Heatran, Taunt Talonflame, Victini, CM Unaware or CM Stored Power Clefable, CM Psyshock Slowbro and CM Reuniclus can also beat Clefable


Togekiss can boost with Nasty Plot and cure itself from status with Heal Bell. Pokemon like Chansey are setup fodder and can later be haxed to dead.
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 8 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Roost
How to beat NP Togekiss?
Mega Scizor. Flash Cannon Heatran. Zapdos. Unaware Clefable but watch out for hax. Ferrothorn. Jirachi. SpD Skarmory. SpD Dragalge. Gothitelle can trap it I guess.


Taunt DD Mega Gyarados can boost its already high attack stat and prevent itself from getting phazed or toxicced. Mold Breaker ignores both Unaware and Magic Guard. How to beat this beast?
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Taunt
How to beat DD Taunt MGyarados?
Mega Altaria beats it with Hyper Voice and can Perish Song / Haze if necessary. Chesnaught is a full counter. Power Whip Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur beat it but if Gyarados doesn't mega evolve it can be annoying because the grass move won't do super effective damage. PDef Zapdos works. Hope for scald burns with Alomomola.


Gothitelle can trap and kill defensive pokemon such as Chansey and Quagsire, which leaves the stall team weak to Zard X / Zard Y / Bisharp / Whatever. You can't really prepare for Gothitelle if it is played well. Bisharp / Tyranitar can pursuit trap it, but it can still take down an important member of the stall team almost every match. Shadow Tag makes it different from other stallbreakers and you can't prepare for Gothitelle by putting pokemon X on your team. Only thing that really works is using stuff like Shed Shell Blissey, so you still have that pokemon for the opposing Zard Y / Gengar / Landorus.


Taunt + NP / SD / Leaf Storm are really annoying for stall because they boost fast and they prevent status and healing. I feel like these pokemon should also be added to the Stallbreaker session but I will add the ''How to beat'' part later.

Analytic
I'm kinda confused if the stallbreaker session is only meant for pokemon that fit on (semi-)stall or for all pokemon that can break stall. If it is the latter, I should add Clefable, Gothitelle, Gengar, Gardevoir, Houndoom, Haxorus and Serperior to stallbreakers. If it is the former, I should only add Gothitelle and Clefable because the other pokemon are not relevant for stall teams
Yeah the compendium is meant for pokemon that fit on stall or semi stall. I mean most of the pokemon that you've mentioned can for on semi stall pretty well so I'll add those.
 
Hazards on these kinds of teams are designed to pressure opposing mons from the start and in the end remove their hazard remover and then rack up your hazard damage.
How do you pressure opposing mons if you don't have much offensive presence? It just isn't feasible for a stall team to be able to keep momentum throughout, not with low speed and need for recovery. It doesn't matter if you are making plays all game.
 

AM

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How do you pressure opposing mons if you don't have much offensive presence? It just isn't feasible for a stall team to be able to keep momentum throughout, not with low speed and need for recovery. It doesn't matter if you are making plays all game.
This applies to semi-stall mostly or stall teams relying on hazard pressure. They'll utilize double switches to get setters in and normally will have something faster like AV Torn-T to hinder the Latis a bit. Just to give you an idea.
 
On stallbreakers, you might want to add Landorus-Incarnate, unless you're that confident that it will get the ban hammer, then nevermind. Speaking of which, you might want to add to the Tail Glow + Rain Dance Manaphy set that AV slowking puts a dead stop to it if it can be switched in safely.

+6 252 SpA Manaphy Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 216 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 332-392 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In retaliation, you can dragon tail it out. If it's only running Ice Beam and Scald or Scald and Psychic, then you can safely arrest the threat of a manaphy sweep, as those can only 3HKO at best, while slowking can switch out to activate regenerator.
 

bludz

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Landorus is a wallbreaker, not a stallbreaker. The main difference being that wallbreakers rely on power whereas stallbreakers either aren't susceptible to standard stall tactics like status and can set up (Clefable, Manaphy, Gliscor) or shut down stallmons (Taunt users).

Also nobody runs that much SpD on AV Slowking, however even the normal spread can take a +3 Energy Ball and Dtail it out.
 
Last edited:

Aberforth

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I would say that rather than the aim being to rack up residual damage, the aim should be to "not lose". As such, I don't think defog conflicts with stall at all, it's a boon considering the number of mons that get defog compared to rapid spin.

In fact I don't even like spike stalling that much considering how common defog is. Spikes work, but honestly I think offense might benefit more from it. Especially since stall just doesn't have the offensive presence to deter people from using defog/rapid spin on you.

P.S. I like the other thread better already, it just seems to discuss stall overall more than just for ORAS. No idea why you felt the need to make a new one. It's still on the first page even...
borat said:
Rather than trying to win, their entire goal is just to "not lose." Fail.
This quote sums up how I feel about that statement. Not losing isn't a good goal for any team, and frankly I feel the best stall teams are ones with a cleaner or two that also provide defensive synergy (ie bulk up talonflame, cm slowbro, ext) and the team should focus on making them able to sweep with most ease.

I feel a tab of Mixed Walls should be added, mons like Ferrothorn, Spdef Skarmory, mixed defensive hippo, ext. Mixed walls are important to avoid weakness to mixed attackers.

Why is dugtrio on a stall compendium? Trapping is nice and all, but it is way too frail, with a poor defensive typing, weak to all hazard forms, lacks any sort of power without either a life orb or a choice band, and with those two it either becomes even more frail (life orb), or easy to exploit when choice locked into a move.

For the cores thing, I'm surprised that either SkarmBliss or SkarmChans haven't come up already. It's not a new concept or anything, but it works.

As for lando not breaking stall... yeah, we'll just have to disagree on that one.

EDIT: To elaborate on that not lose point, the goal of any stall team should not be to not lose, because to do that they would have to cover everything conceivable, never get haxed at any point in any game (with stall games taking as long as they do, that is conceivably hax against the opponent to never get a crit or a full para), and never get outplayed as well. This is neigh on impossible with only 6 mons to choose from, if not outright impossible, and so the best stall teams are, in my opinion, the ones that take a slower path to eliminating a particular mon's checks and counters before initiating a sweep with a mon that provides good defensive utility as well as being the sweeper/cleaner.
 
And that's where our views differ. I don't remember who posted this before, but stall's end goal is to have only the Pokemon it needs to wall the remainder of the opponent's team. I am not talking about semi-stall, or bulky offense here, which is undoubtedly superior in ORAS, but just the general idea behind stall. Of course, you may use Crocune, or whatever bulky set-up Pokemon you wish on your stall team, and it would probably be better for it, but that is ultimately not the aim of the stall team.
 

Aberforth

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Then that is not a good stall team. If it lacks a way to win, it will not win nearly as consistantly as a team that does have a way to win.

Mind, I'm describing semi stall, so I suppose I'm just saying it's better than full (fail) stall.
 
All though it has its weaknesses, my personal semi stall team consists of:

Status abuser Sableye
Wave-Seed Ferrothorn with Power Whip and Protect
Physically Defensive Tyanitar with Crunch, Equake, Fire blast and Avalanche
Sub Gliscor without Protect and toxic in exchange for Fire and Ice Fangs
Clerical Blissey with Wish and Toxic
Assault Vest Goodra with D-Pulse, Fire Blast, Sludge Wave and T-bolt
 
On CleanerthanRotom-W's stall team you might want to change sableye mega stone to the correct one.
 
Personally I feel like the main 'win condition' for stall is to outlast your opponent. This is usually done via the means of entry hazards and statuses and chip damage. However in my opinion if this is your sole method of winning the match then you are probably going to run into problems somewhere down the line. Which is why i suggest unless you are running completely full out stall to have a secondary win condition. Here are a few examples which i would consider as 'backup' or secondary win condition, these can be very useful if you are having trouble just finishing battles off or need a bit more power to break through an opposing defensive team.



Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind

Standard unaware clefable but with a boosting option. Try to hide calm mind as long as possible so that maybe late game you can get a couple of boosts in and then suddenly turn around and sweep.

Similar idea:



Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Surf
- Psyshock

Personally i prefer a setup like this to a stored power one as stored power is a bit of a one-trick pony and you can often bop dark switchins with surf when they expect a psychic type.

Anyway these are just two examples of good solid backup wincons, there are many others like rest-talk m-swampert and various stall-breaker mons like gengar/mew/whatever
 

SketchUp

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Also a pretty cool mon to use on (semi-)stall is Victini. Victini is pretty versatile as it can run useful sets in SubPuP, SpD, Stallbreaker and Lure sets which are all great for semi-stall. On full stall I prefer to run a combination of the SpD and the Stallbreaker set:


Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 144 SpD / 116 Spe
Careful Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

As opposed to the regular stallbreaker set, this set runs special bulk instead of physical power, but it is still able to get many 2hko's with V-Create. You still 2hko one of your most important targets (Clefable) and you still have a big chance to OHKO Gardevoir with rocks down. The increase in special bulk is great, as it helps Victini against some very threatening wall- and stallbreakers like Mega Gardevoir, Mega Charizard Y, Clefable and Special Mega Altaria. With 116 speed Victini reaches 265 speed, which is enough to outspeed Mew and Tankchomp (who run enough speed to creep Bish / Loom) Victini has some flaws that make it a pretty shaky pokemon to use as your only Clefable / Metagross check. A Stealth Rock weakness can put you in range of some powerful attacks even when you resist them and the lack of reliable recovery doesn't help either. U-Turn is a nice option on this set to get momentum after switching in against Gardevoir / Zard Y which is great if you add a Wish passer or a hazards remover to the team.

Against Offense:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 144+ SpD Victini in Sun: 123-146 (30.5 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 144+ SpD Victini: 154-182 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 144+ SpD Victini: 89-105 (22 - 26%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Victini: 106-126 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- 11.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (watch out for eq)
+6 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Victini: 239-282 (59.3 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 144+ SpD Victini: 69-81 (17.1 - 20%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Victini: 140-166 (34.7 - 41.1%) -- 64.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 144+ SpD Victini: 226-266 (56 - 66%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (same damage as a +0 leaf storm and a +2 leaf storm combined)
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 144+ SpD Victini: 172-204 (42.6 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 228-270 (76.7 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 265-313 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross: 270-320 (89.7 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 520-616 (151.6 - 179.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 404-476 (138.8 - 163.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Alakazam: 273-322 (108.7 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Against Stall:
Victini beats Mega Sableye if it gets the V-Create on the switch which is pretty big because Victini can spam Taunt / Wisp afterwards. Some pokemon such as Slowbro or Zard X still gives it trouble but in general it can cripple many pokemon with Wisp and prevent recovery and heal bell with Taunt. So you have a stallbreaker and special tank at the same time.
 
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