Resource Stall in ORAS

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Going to mention trick scarf gothitelle also.

Come in on the tail glow. trick the scarf onto manaphy. Get destroyed by scald. Wall manaphy rest of the match.
 
Something I didn't mention in my earlier post, since it's pretty niche:

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 144 HP / 112 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Heart Swap
- Energy Ball
- Heal Bell / Substitute (thanks jpw234 !) / Ice Beam etc

I've used this a couple of times on defensive teams to patch up weaknesses to CM boosters, SD Lando and so on simultaneously. Opposing Manaphy are the primary target, and Energy Ball always OHKO's back at +3, but you can also steal against M-Bro, Suicune, SubCM Keldeo, and MG Clefable. Pretty useful set overall, if difficult to build a team around.
 
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jpw234

Catastrophic Event Specialist
Something I didn't mention in my earlier post, since it's pretty niche:

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 144 HP / 112 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Heart Swap
- Energy Ball
- Heal Bell / Reflect / Ice Beam / U-turn

I've used this a couple of times on defensive teams to patch up weaknesses to CM boosters, SD Lando and so on simultaneously. Opposing Manaphy are the primary target, and Energy Ball always OHKO's back at +3, but you can also steal against M-Bro, Suicune, SubCM Keldeo, and MG Clefable. Pretty useful set overall, if difficult to build a team around.
Have you tried Substitute in the last moveslot? Seems pretty good, particularly if you've just stolen CM boosts.
 
Week 2:

Discuss pokemon that can deal with Manaphy
Manaphy is a pokemon that can run various sets to threaten stall teams. TG+Rest, TG+3 Attacks, CM+Rest, are all sets that Manaphy can run. Not to mention how good its coverage is, making it a huge threat to stall overall.
I think that while defensive unaware Clef is generally a better option than the specially defensive variant its still a decent option that can counter many special threats and one of the reasons its overlooked is due to just how good chansey is at walling special mons but in a situation where you dont want a chansey you can easily pair up spdef clef with say a spdef rachi and wall 99% of the specially attacking meta (looking at you gengar).

Anyway a couple of months ago when i was trying to build a rain balance team i wanted to use a mon that would hard stop manaphys that would come in and take advantage of the rain so i came up with this little guy who i believe is literally the only mon that can hard counter all manaphy sets, as in can come in on any set and baring hax will win every time. Introducing:



Dance King (Ludicolo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Scald
- Giga Drain

Basically Ludicolo can switch in after manaphy forces out something like a skarmory and can tank any +3 attack with ease and 3hko it before it will be 3hko (assuming 252 spa/173 timid which i think is the standards set):

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ludicolo: 147-174 (40.3 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(All of its moves hit Ludicolo neutrally and not super effectively so they all do the same damage)

0 SpA Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 150-176 (41 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And if it is a RD variant then that is even better as now you will outspeed with swift swim quite comfortably and can use leech seed combined with sub to stay pretty much completely healthy.

Mono attacking sets are the easiest to wall as even +6 scald will barely break the sub most of the time so thats a complete counter:

+6 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ludicolo: 78-92 (21.4 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Basically this dancing dude will beat all sets 1v1 baring hax and its not completely useless outside of checking manaphy although that is its main purpose. Coming in on pretty much any water mon and then setting up a sub/leech seed or fishing for scald burns means this guy can pull his own weight against most balance teams but might struggle vs HO as his defense and HP are not particuarly high.

Also i think Amnesia Quag walls manaphy but i havent tried it and its probably not the best idea as scald burns will be very annoying and you cant really hurt it back if it has RD
 
Week 3:

Chansey is a blob that checks a lot of specially oriented threats in the tier. Its reliance on Eviolite is often its downfall though. It's got access to SR, Heal Bell, and reliable recovery, making it a great support pokemon. It is, however, very susceptible to Taunt, and being set up bait

  • What limits Chansey in the current metagame?
  • What is it at good at in the metagame?
  • What threats to stall does it handle?
 
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Week 3:

Chansey is a blob that checks a lot of specially oriented threats in the tier. Its reliance on Eviolite is often its downfall though. It's got access to SR, Heal Bell, and reliable recovery, making it a great support pokemon. It is, however, very susceptible to Taunt, and being set up bait

Discuss what pokemon threaten Chansey.
Discuss what pokemon threaten Chansey.
Chansey the threat
Nothing in this meta >_>
 
lol chansey

sableye @ sablenite
ability: prankster
evs: 252 hp / 160 def / 96 spdef
careful nature
- will-o-wisp
- knock off
- foul play
- recover

cant be touched by chansey, get your free burns and item removal on your opponent's switches here!
 
threat to chansey lol, fighting physical hitting mons , strong physical wallbreaker, physical setup sweeper, taunt mons, etc. best counter i can think of is sd gliscor spd w/roost,sd,eq and knock off, which can 100 percent of the time switch into chansey's t-wave/toxic, shrug off seismic tosses, setup easily on chansey, knock its eviolite off, etc
 
Discuss what pokemon threaten Chansey.
Actually could we not do this?

Look, everyone knows how Chansey works. If we're going to talk about Chansey then imo discussion should focus on its viability or niche in the Hoopa-U meta, including any original or interesting cores utilising it.

For instance, I've been using a team recently around Chansey + Poliwrath to handle RD Manaphy (and similar mons like Suicune), Knock Off spam, switch into Scald (which Chansey is poor at), and blanket check most physical attackers. Maybe not optimal for full stall, but it makes a good start to a balance team (I used it with M-Diancie and Ferrothorn).
 
Actually could we not do this?

Look, everyone knows how Chansey works. If we're going to talk about Chansey then imo discussion should focus on its viability or niche in the Hoopa-U meta, including any original or interesting cores utilising it.

For instance, I've been using a team recently around Chansey + Poliwrath to handle RD Manaphy (and similar mons like Suicune), Knock Off spam, switch into Scald (which Chansey is poor at), and blanket check most physical attackers. Maybe not optimal for full stall, but it makes a good start to a balance team (I used it with M-Diancie and Ferrothorn).
Changed the topics to be discussed
 
I like to partner chansey with Mega sabeleye to screw hazards+stallbreakers, skarmory for physical attackers and hazard control, gothitelle to help handle manaphy, megaheracross, and hoopa-u. Then 2 more usually jirachi or bronzong for mega gardevoir then quagsire, rhyperior or slowbro to handle zard x.
 
Week 3:

Chansey is a blob that checks a lot of specially oriented threats in the tier. Its reliance on Eviolite is often its downfall though. It's got access to SR, Heal Bell, and reliable recovery, making it a great support pokemon. It is, however, very susceptible to Taunt, and being set up bait

  • What limits Chansey in the current metagame?
  • What is it at good at in the metagame?
  • What threats to stall does it handle?
Chansey is in particular a special wall, that is what it is well known for and that is what it does best. The other well known fact is its heavy reliance of its item in order to wall some of the more powerful special wallbreakers out there such as char-y and volcarona and what not. Its physical defenses are rather poor but thanks to its very large hp it can still take a few physical hits but its not recommended as it will take heavy damage and can be ko by a lot of physical wallbreakers.

Hazards are another weak point to chansey which is why it is very often paired with skarmory who can tank the physical hits and get rid of hazards. Since it has no leftovers and takes full damage from hazards if there are a layer of spikes/stealth rocks on the field it loses 25% on switch-in which it sometimes desperately needs in order to be an effective wall.

So while it is limited by hazards, lack of phsyical defenses and reliance on its item, it is still more or less a staple on most stall teams because of just how effective it is. Fortunately in OU currently there is not a single fighting special attacker meaning most special wallbreakers rely on focus blast coverage which not only has shaky accuracy will generally only hit it for about 40% maximum meaning there is pretty much no special attacks that can 2hko it. Which makes it very very good at tanking special hits and stopping opponents momentum.

Things it walls that are in the A/S ranks - as in it can easily switch in and stop it doing much damage while doing something useful in return either statusing/rocks/clerical support or whatever:

Special Altaria, Clefable, Diancie, Latios, Non RD-Manaphy, Non-Knock off Thundurus, Alakazam, Charizard-Y, Manectric, Slowbro, Starmie, Venusaur, Celebi, Magnezone, Raikou, Rotom, Serperior, Volcarona.

Im not suggesting it can tank all of these mons all of the time it depends on the particular battle and moveset but this list gives you a good indication of what mons it can potentially wall with varying degrees of ease.

However stall relies sometimes very heavily upon chansey and if the opponent manages to get rid of it then often it is a downhill battle from there for the staller as there is not many special walls that can do the job it does so effectively. It is also slow, easy to taunt and easy to set up on and completely useless against ghost types as it rarely runs more than seismic toss as an attacking move.

Generally the pros outweigh the cons and Chansey is the pinnacle of special walls currently and will probably remain the same for a while but the ways to deal with it are numerous and easy to come by.
 

DarkNostalgia

Fading in, fading out, on the edge of paradise
is a Contributor Alumnus
  • What limits Chansey in the current metagame?
The problem with Chansey is that in reality many special attackers are capable of circumventing it, via crippling it immensely, luring it in and KOing it. From S - A rank, these following special attackers can get past Chansey: Mega Altaria (physical sets lol), Clefable (Calm Mind + Magic Guard + Soft-Boiled), Gengar (Taunt), Hoopa-U (Nasty Plot / Hyperspace Fury), Heatran (Taunt / Magma Storm), Keldeo (Secret Sword), Latios (Calm Mind + Psyshock), Manaphy (Tail Glow), Mega Sableye (Calm Mind, typing), Thundurus (Knock Off, Superpower, Nasty Plot), Tornadus-T (Knock Off, Superpower), (Mega) Alakazam (Taunt, Encore), Mega Charizard Y (Flare Blitz), Mega Gardevoir (Taunt + Psyshock), Kyurem-B (Outrage, Substitute), Mega Latias (Calm Mind + Stored Power), Slowbro (Calm Mind), Mega Venusaur (Knock Off + Giga Drain). It's true that Chansey still remains a good answer to the aforementioned that lack the tools to get past it (for example, Mega Charizard Y without Flare Blitz), as well as other select attackers such as Mega Diancie, Latias, Starmie, and Mega Manectric.

It's pretty obvious that Knock Off is a huge issue especially when it's a move seen on pretty much every team, with a low opportunity cost, high reward, and high spammability. It's been stated before that Eviolite is pretty much what separates Chansey from Blissey - essentially what gives Chansey its niche, and when it has been Knocked Off Chansey loses its luster.

  • What threats to stall does it handle?
Roost Kyurem-B is a pretty huge threat to stall, one that Chansey checks relatively well provided that it lacks Outrage or Substitute. Starmie is another one, as its wide coverage options limit its switch-ins by a huge margin, leaving the only non-Chansey Pokemon capable of switching in the likes of Kyurem-B and Ferrothorn. Dragalge too, with its insane power comes a lack of switch-ins, and Chansey boasts being one of the few being able to switch in easily with no repercussions. Mega Diancie is something Chansey handles well too as it threatens the likes of Mega Sableye and Tornadus-T commonly found on stall.
 
Week 4:



  • What deals with M-Gardevoir on Stall teams?
  • Why is it so threatening to Stall?
  • What sets can it run to break stall?
 
What deals with it:
To be honest not a lot is safe. Chansey gets Taunted (or Burnt), at which point it has to rely on Seismic Toss and get no healing for three turns; Garde's already switched out into Bisharp and then Chansey or whatever you switch in gets Knocked Off. I mean in theory Chansey does alright but in practice it's just not going to cut it, it only delays the problem and usually offers no real advantage. Heatran loses to Focus Blast, as it has to 3HKO Garde with Rocks using Lava Plume and Garde only needs to 2HKO without Rocks. You can't hope Focus Blast won't miss either, because it's very likely 2 will hit you before 3 Lava Plumes hit Garde.
AV Slowking is my usual answer to Garde, although it does have to rely on Regenerator because it's still getting cleanly 3HKOd. However Garde can't just eat Scalds and doesn't like Burn damage so it's usually a good option. Skarmory can work but you'll need to Roost at some point if you switch it in, and then you've got a problem.
Specially Defensive Jirachi is probably the best counter to Mega Gardevoir, resisting both STABs, neutral to Focus Blast and nabbing the OHKO with Iron Head (not guaranteed but it's still doing a lot and Garde doesn't bother Jirachi much - but beware Burns). It can also U-Turn out of Bisharp which is nice. I would guess that for the same reasons Bronzong is also very good (probably can't U-Turn though) but I don't use Bronzong too often so I wouldn't know. I'd also guess you could use the defensive Garde set as well!
An interesting way of dealing with it is Screens Klefki. It softens the hits with Light Screen to allow a switch-in, can do a decent amount with Foul Play and can Fairy Lock Gardevoir when Klefki is about to faint so you can take out Gardevoir without fearing a switch. HOWEVER, this relies on Gardevoir not running Taunt and so should not be your main response.

Why it's a threat:
Basically we got nothing for it. It's got one of the most powerful Fairy STABs in the game, as if Fairy STAB wasn't spammable enough already, it can Taunt and Burn and boost and is pretty much guaranteed to be running one of those, it's fast (for Stall), it has Psyshock as well as Hyper Voice, and it forms a great core with Bisharp - between the two we're struggling to cope. Semistall has it a bit better than full Stall but still has to be very aware of it.

What sets it can run to break Stall:


Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Calm Mind

That's the one from the Strategy Dex... so there's probably another one somewhere which I don't know about.
 

AD impish john

Consumed by Darkness...
Waifu is Week 4, noice

What deals with M-Gardevoir on Stall teams?

Not much actually, mostly Specially Defensive Pokemon wall it. Obviously Chansey walls it, but Taunt can cripple it from healing. Sp Def invested Jirachi can eat up and attack from Waifu including Focus Blast which does like 30%. Sp Def Skarmory can do eat some attacks from it, but won't like taking 2 Focus Blast or a combination of Hyper Voice+Focus Blast from Garde. Heatran won't mind taking a Hyper Voice/Psyshock, but takes serious damage from Focus Miss. Heatran's Flash Cannon does serious damage to Mega Gardevoir as it can definitely OHKO after field hazards. Klefki can setup screens to weaken Mega Gardevoir's attacks making it safer for the other mons. Scizor/Mega Scizor threaten it to switch out but can fear the not so common HP Fire. Scarf Magnezone threatens Mega Gardevoir from being hit with a Flash Cannon. Mega Venusaur while out can threaten Mega Gardevoir to not come out on a switch in fearing a Sludge Bomb. Ferrothorn is like Venusaur, it makes Mega Gardevoir fear its Gyro Ball which is a OHKO to Mega Gardevoir.

Why is it so threatening to Stall?

Mega Gardevoir pretty much destroys Stall AND I LOVE IT. It's threatening because of its High Special Attack, and its Fairy type stab makes it hard to resist and can predict its Steel Type counters with Focus Blast. It's speed is Decent, slow in Hyper Offense terms, but is fast against Stall. Taunt can stop mons from setting up, and Will-O-Wisp can burn opposing physical mons. Did I mention that Mega Gardevoir can also boost stats with Calm Mind?

What sets it can run to break Stall:

Its most common set is:
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Calm Mind / Hidden Power [Fire] / Substitute


Just an idea, but on your Home Page you should add a Mega Evolution section in your Role Compendium. Otherwise looking good ^_^
 
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bludz

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Assault Vest Metagross is actually a pretty solid answer to Mega Gardevoir:

252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 168 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 105-124 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO

Nice check to the other fairies as well thanks to its natural bulk:

252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 168 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 140-166 (38.5 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 254-300 (69.9 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

92+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 272-324 (93.4 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

With Bullet Punch to pick them off. It does require a decent amount of support though, with Wish as the most prominent aspect of that support. However it can find a place on a few stall/semi-stall builds simply based on the fact that a lot of them love Pursuit support as well.

Credit goes to ABR for educating me on how well it deals with Gardevoir.
 
i think we should list rhyperior and goodra, as physicall wall and special wall respectively, i know they are more tanks then walls but both can take very important mons to a stall team. rhyperior can wall char-x, mega pinsir, talonflame and victini very well, this are the mains mons that he resists, but he have and awesome bulk with a good defensive ability, he can survive a +2 iron head from bisharp, witch means he can tank almost any physical attacker(that doesn't have grass/water moves).
goodra in the other way have a massive sp.def and a boost with AV, and isn't passive like most special walls, goodra defensive typing is very nice too, dragon brings a lot of resistences to the team and sap sipper allow she to stop serperior witch is very threatening to stall teams.
i know they need clerics and wish passers, but they deserve a place in the role compedium
 
Week 4:

  • Why does Quagsire find its place on stall teams?
  • What threatens Quagsire?
  • How important is it to stall and why?
 
Why does Quagsire find its place on stall teams?
Quagsire serves its purpose on stall as a wall to many Physical Attackers commonly seen throughout OU and also as a Switch in to Set-Up sweepers that would normally get up Swords Dance or Dragon Dances. Thanks to its most used ability in stall, Unaware, it ignores other Pokemon's stat stages when taking or doing damage.

What threatens Quagsire?
Strong Special Attackers such as Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump and Gengar, Gothitelle Shadow Tag w/ Energy Ball, strong ice beams, Charizard Y solar beam, Breloom(good grass attacks in general), Ferrothorn, Stall Breaker Mew Will-o-Taunt, Sylveon, and Banded Diggersby. There are a handful others but these are just a few.

How important is it to stall and why?

Quagsire has a somewhat big role against opponents using Hyper Offense that usually would try to get some boosted attack at some point in the game. Thanks to its ability Unaware, it doesn't take into account any stat boosts the opposing Pokemon has set up, keeping it always at a nice level of health and paired with lefties+recover+Scald/Toxic, It can either burn or toxic stall and force the switch out. Burning Pokemon also lower their attack which is really helpful when stalling out turns. Stall is usually built with cores around Chansey, Heatran, and/or Clefable, so easily Switching out to Chansey on an upcoming Sylveon would be simple and easy.
 
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DarkNostalgia

Fading in, fading out, on the edge of paradise
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  • Why does Quagsire find its place on stall teams?
Explaining this in a little bit more depth because a lot of the team the more passive nature of stall means there are quite a few setup chances available. Sometimes Will-O-Wisp or Taunt doesn't and can't stop a sweep because in the event that that Pokemon is facing against something that beats it easily, its screwed. Quagsire finds a cool place because of Unaware, as stated before. You get a cool counter to threatening setup sweepers such as Mega Altaria, Mega Charizard X, Mega Scizor, Azumarill, Bisharp, Mega Gallade, Garchomp, and Hawlucha, among other things. Also has Scald + Earthquake for some bullshitting and Recover to become invincible.

You could compare it to Clefable, a fellow Unaware user, but Clefable doesn't have the ability to counter the likes of Mega Charizard X, Azumarill, Bisharp, or Mega Scizor, nor does it have "reliable recovery" like Quagsire's Recover, as Moonlight and Wish + Protect are quite unreliable methods of recovery. Quagsire also has Scald which is cool to cripple Grass-types as well, while clerical Clefable is a sitting duck for Fire- and Steel-types.
  • What threatens Quagsire?
Another thing would be Manaphy, which is obviously one of the biggest threats to stall. Energy Ball is a straight up OHKO and Scald burns means Manaphy wins against Quagsire. You've also got Latios - Unaware ignores the Special Attack drop from Draco Meteor, meaning it's a 2HKO no matter what, while Scald is piss weak and Latios can always Roost off burns / damage sustained, and Earthquake doesn't affect Latios obviously.
 
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Serperior specifically actually. Quaggy can't really touch Serp for toffees and frankly becomes a liability against any teams carrying it because it's just an invitation for the thing to spiral out of control. An out of control Serperior is really threatening, especially if your team is weakened - and if you've sent Swagsire Quagsire out to slow something down you're probably at that point to be honest, or not far off. You could argue that it's normally paired with Heatran, I guess, but let's be honest here, switching in Tran isn't just going to magically make the bad situation better. At least it doesn't for me, though someone please tell me if I'm doing something very wrong. Point is, Serp forces some very specific play if you don't want to lose half your team and Quag is an invitation to lose half your team if you're not careful. Still a very useful mon for Stall though.
Haven't really got much else to say. I don't use the thing that often and PikachuCandy and DarkNostalgia have pretty much covered everything I can think of.
 
Sorry, was busy.

Week 5:




  • What makes Serperior threatening to Stall?
  • What pokemon are reliably able to deal with Serperior?
 
Serperior would actually be much more threatening if it had Taunt, but seeing as it doesn't, without Life Orb it can barely 3hko clefables with spdef, and without knock off it can't properly deal with chansey either, though chansey risks a substitute on a toxic, but seismic toss 3hkos LO. It's also 100% walled by Mega-Alt, unless some random HP Poison variant lol. Spdef Amoonguss is uncommon, but I'm pretty sure amoonguss can take +2 HP Fire and ohko with sludge bomb after LO. And if you have talonflame with spdef, you can just forget all the rest and KO with Brave Bird
 
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