Stallbreakers Discussion

Blue_Tornado

Blue_Tornado

Well, seeing all of these new threads pop out, I was actually pretty surprised to see no thread like this between them. With that in mind, I've taken the opportunity to open this thread, to promote discussion on one of the more important topics in today's metagame:


Stallbreakers​


Lets face it: most of today's metagame is either Bulky Offensive or Stall, with Balanced teams in between. With all of those pesky Stall teams running about, is there a way of dealing with them?​

That's where Stallbreakers come in. Every successful Offensive team needs at least one stallbreaker to, well, break stall. Knowing this fact, what are the biggest and most effective Stallbreakers in today's metagame?​

The most 'famous' Stallbreakers are Salamence and Infernape. Nothing in todays metagame likes a MixMence Draco Meteor aside from the bulky Steel-types, which are threatened themselves from the strong Fire- and Ground-Type moves in its arsenal. Because of this, Stall teams will always have at least one 'check' or even a counter (though countering a MixMence is near impossible) for the common dragon. And what about Infernape? MixApe is also a force to be wary of, as it's stellar movepool and stats allow it to hit most of the metagame super-effectively. For Infernape though, there are a lot of possible counters like Vaporeon and Latias, and you won't find a Stall team that isn't prepared for MixApe in today's metagame.​

With all of these preparations, the common Stallbreakers will struggle to do their jobs effectively, and against better players, be mostly a waste of a slot. So, what is a reliable Stallbreaker in todays metagame? That's a big question that we'll discuss here.​

An example for a rather new Stallbreaking threat is Gliscor:​

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Nature: Jolly
~Earthquake
~Taunt
~Roost
~U-Turn​

This Gliscor can be a huge asset to a lot of Offensive and Bulky Offensive teams. Popularized by Crobat in UU, Gliscor can cycle through Taunt, Roost and U-Turn to completely mess with opposing stall teams, and is also a solid counter to the common Lucario, an important thing to have overall. Gliscor can Taunt Skarmory and Forretress, rendering them useless, and then U-Turn out as they likely switch, giving your team the offensive momentum they need against stall.
Overall, with the right support and in the right hands, Gliscor can easily break Stall.​

There is also another method of breaking stall: Trapping and Pseudo-Trapping. The most common trapping pokemon is Magnezone, being able to trap and kill the majority of Steel-type pokemon in the current
metagame. Being able to move the likes of Skarmory, Forretress and others out of the way can be essential for breaking a Stall team, as they will be lacking a wall or a support pokemon (or both). Dugtrio is also usable, but with the abuse of so many priority moves today, combined with his paper-defenses, he will mostly be a waste of a slot.​

Pseudo-trapping is Pursuit in other words: Pursuit users that 'trap' the opponent in their way. For example: a ScarfTar switches in on a weakened Latias. Latias is outsped and KO'ed if she stays in, so she must switch out. However, Pursuit KO'es latias if she stays in AND if she switches, somewhat 'trapping' her, and that's what Pseudo-Trapping is all about. The opponent doesn't have to be slower: If the opponent in stuck on an ineffective move (or just a weak move against that opponent) like Specs Alakazam against Metagross, the opponent has to take Pursuit damage upon switching out. This is enough to render that pokemon useless most of the time.
This method can work very well against Stall and can badly weaken (or KO) opposing walls like Blissey and Latias.​

I'll leave the rest to you. Feel free to discuss the effective method for Stallbreaking today and the effective pokemon to do it!​

If some of you would like some more help on breaking walls, this guide in the article can help you out greatly.​

*If this thread is inappropriate and meaningless in Stark in the eyes of some moderators, feel free to lock it. With all of these new threads lately, though, I think this thread has it's place here.

What more can I say? Discuss.​
 
Some sets from the Stallbreaker-Thread on pokefans.net:

Lucario (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 26 HP/232 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse

Stall can't do anything, the only possibility to kill Lucario is Hippoterus' Earthquake (who gets massive damage even from an unboosted Aura Sphere).

Gyarados could use its Roar, but with SR support Lucario will kill it on the second switch-in.



Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 100 Atk/168 Spd/242 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Waterfall
- Rain Dance
- Draco Meteor
- Signal Beam

Signal Beam OHKOs Celebi, the other Stalles get 2HKOed.
The only problem is Skarmory, but I don't think anyone switches Skarm into a Raindance Kingdra. (before he knows the full set)
 
Looking at other metagames, Giratina-o is a great tool against Uber stall. It can block Rapid Spin, is immune to Seismic Toss, Blissey's main offensive move and can use Substitute to block status. Wobbuffet can trap stallers, Encore their moves, then use Tickle to soften them up for a Pursuit user.

In UU, Dugtrio is now available for trapping. It won't OHKO Registeel with Earthquake, so it is better used for trapping Chansey and weakened physical walls. Blaziken and Nidoking have great mixed offenses and movepools that can take out the common walls, making them suitable for wall breaking.
 
This thread might be useful as well.

I find the best way to beat stall is to weaken the walls without recovery until they die. Then pick on their weaknesses, to defeat other walls. It may not work all the time, and is harder to pull off on better teams/players, but it still is a solid strategy.
 
Another way to beat stall is to capitalize on some pokemons fucked up defenses in certain ends of the spectrum (Blisseys defense dont fuck around). If you have a balanced team, walls like Skarmory and Blissey wont count for shit. But pokemon with high defenses on both ends can be obnoxious. I find that this works well:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold (+Defense, -Speed)
~ Toxic
~ Wish
~ Hydro Pump
~ Protect

Toxic-stall with a twist. Hydro Pump takes out poison types and steels that are immune to Toxic, and packs surprising power, even with the miniscule EVs in Special Attack. Toxic can whittle away at the opponents HP, Protect is an amazing move to have for Toxic-stall, and Wish on Vaporeon is almost as standard as Bullet Punch on Scizor. I use this to break any and all wallls in OU, to great success. The only thing that can beat me is an Aromatherapy Blissey, but their Defense is so queer, that I never worry against them.
 
Sometimes a wall is almost impossible to take down via direct damage, usually because it is complemented by another wall, for example, Hippowdon and Blissey. Because of this, it is not a bad idea to use residual damage from Toxic, Will-o-Wisp or even Leech Seed to take these walls down. Toxic works great against walls that aren't steel-type and don't carry Rest, because eventually Toxic will do more damage than they can recover. Will-o-Wisp and Leech Seed are effectively Stealth Rock damage every turn, and the latter can help your pokemon last longer in the battle, especially if you happen to land Leech Seed on Blissey. Because of this, I would recommend status-inducers like Celebi, Vaporeon and Rotom to help break stall. While these pokemon are fairly stallish in nature, they can still go on the offensive at the same time, or they can provide further support for your main sweepers.
 
This thread ignores one key concept: "stall breaking" isn't one pokemon, it is an entire team concept.

You can't just throw an Infernape or that Gliscor on your team and say "yep now I don't have to worry about losing to stall teams!" Any good stall team can withstand assaults from pokemon like MixMence and Infernape, the "stall breaking" part comes later. A mixed attacker isn't enough to beat stall and it never has been. Like I said before, it is a constant strategy that you have to employ throughout the entire match. If you give a stall team even one free turn to heal or set up, you are digging that much deeper of a hole for yourself, whittling away at your own HP while they keep theirs in tip-top shape.

That is why U-turn is such a great move. Not only does it do a reasonable amount of damage (70 BP Bug move isnt bad), it lets you keep the flow of your team going while your opponent is stuck at a disadvantage. Like you mentioned in the OP, that U-turn + Taunt idea can be very beneficial to rack up Stealth Rock damage against a stall team. Something like a Jolly SD Lucario would appreciate that extra turn of SR damage, because it can't OHKO things like Skarmory and Hippowdon without it. That Gliscor you mentioned won't be doing much stall breaking if you don't have anything to U-turn to and take advantage of the free switch!

I forget who it was, but someone said that the goal of stall teams was not to win, but to "not lose". Basically, instead of killing you straight up, a stall team's #1 priority is to preserve itself. A stall team doesn't care if your Infernape is at 100% or at 25%, as long as its counter is still intact. Use that to your advantage when playing against them, it is fairly easy to predict against stall teams once you realize that your opponent is using this basic idea. If you want to break stall, you have to be trying to win the match instead of trying to wear them out. This is a pretty helpful idea, especially when you are playing a stall team while using one of your own.
 
the easiest way to break stall, in my experience, is gimmicks. Stall teams rely on having the right poke in place to take whatever they think is coming. This is why Mixape and Mixmence work so well because there are so few pokes that can garuntee a victory against them. If you run a gimmicky set, they will likely predict wrong and pay for it. Once you get a few key players out, stall teams can't function any longer. Remove Blissey and most stall teams fall to shambles.
 
jrrrr summed up my thoughts basically.

I have always found the best way to beat stall is to have a plan. If you bring constantly in your MixMence or whatever you use (personally I have only used MixMence on one team, and that wasn't even my own team) it's going to be weakened quite quickly by residual damage. You actually need to have a plan to utilize it, so you need to find the time to use it, and then you need to play it correctly.

U-turn, as jrrrr mentioned, is great against stall because it consistently chips away damage while the Pokémon you bring in often forces the opponent to switch or faint, which means the opponent's counters may suddenly not be countering.

If you reveal all your Pokémon against stall you're going to be struggling. If the opponent knows your team, the previous U-turn plan is much harder to utilize as they probably have more of an idea as to what you want to sweep with. Keeping your team hidden is pretty useful.

"SpikeStacking" is pretty cool because it gives sweepers the extra damage to allow them to beat their counters. Suddenly SD Lucario is threatening Hippowdon, instead of Hippowdon beating it. Smeargle is pretty damn good for this reason, especially as it can carry Spore / Taunt, which helps hugely against the likes of Blissey or Hippowdon, giving it those vital extra turns.

Personally I have been using Skarmory and Tyranitar.
---
Skarmory (M) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 64 SDef / 192 Spe
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Toxic
---
Pairing it with CB Tyranitar helps against Rotom-A, again though, you need to play it correctly. You can literally stall opposing Skarmory to death with Taunt, stop any Hippowdon attempts, and so on. Blissey with Flamethrower is pretty much the other "big threat", but a largely physical team means Blissey is coming in far less on the rest of the team, so I can steal free Spiking turns against the more defensive physical Pokémon (previously mentioned Hippowdon, Skarmory, and others such as Intimidate Gyarados). Toxic helps stall in one vs one situations, and also stops the opponent from using their healing moves which is fun as they are often switching due to Toxic damage, which plays well with Spikes. Forretress is annoying but it can't do much back barring Rapid Spin, but obviously a Ghost-type nullifies that (although Payback is annoying). If I have 3 layers of Spikes, Tyranitar is suddenly much more of a threat. It just seems to annoy the hell out of stall much like the previous Gliscor set.

/edit: Forgot to say, if Blissey comes in and is Taunted, it's then pretty easy for Tyranitar to come in and blast it with a CB STAB Pursuit.
 
Agreeing with twash and jrrrr, beating stall is about much more than simply throwing a wallbreaker onto a team and hoping you predict well.
The most reliable ways of beating stall, obviously, are those that prevent stall teams from doing their job - taking longer to lose than other teams do.

Entry hazards in particular are incredibly useful against stall, as are Pokemon that are intended to abuse those entry hazards, for example Rotom with Sub/Charge Beam/Shadow Ball/HP Fighting, which can be a nightmare for stall to deal with if you give it Toxic Spikes support. Pair that up with a Taunt Gliscor/Skarmory or a Pokemon like CM Latias or Sub/Roost/Toxic Zapdos, and you've got a pretty solid strategy against stall without having to throw a wallbreaker onto your team.
 
I've worked up a pretty amazing stallbreaker and variant of the old NP Azelf:

Substituting Nasty Plot Azelf

Timid 252spatt 252speed 4hp @leftovers

Substitute
Nasty Plot
Psychic
Flamethrower

Substitute is the key move. Allows a sub up against the likes of Blissey or Cresselia, who love to throw thunder waves or toxics at Azelf. Once behind a sub, Azelf can nasty plot. One nasty plot allows Psychic to KO most pokémon, with two nasty plots making it an OHKO on even bulky things and 3 nasty plots meaning basically gg. +6 psychic does around 70% on calm Blissey which I would say is quite excellent (This is from experience on Shoddy and I do manage to set up 3 nasty plots quite regularly). Stuff like Swampert and Zapdos can't stand up to it at all once it's behind a sub. Substitute also allows Azelf to serve as an excellent Scizor/Metagross lure. A lot of people immediately switch in their bulky steels to threaten with bullet punch while sponging an attack. Not the case when Azelf has a flamethrower which OHKOs both and is behind a sub. Choice Band bullet punch also doesn't OHKO provided you have a reflect set up, which my Azelf pretty much always has when in my team.

In short, it's an excellent pokémon when used on my team. I make sure to support it with dualscreens and leech seed when possible, both of which greatly improve its ability to set up. With the right setup, this Azelf has the potential to sweep an entire team.

However it's stopped dead by Tyranitar who's the bane of this set. Latias, Starmie and Slowbro also cause problems because they resist both attacks. I do have means of dealing with them outside of Azelf though. Latias is the biggest problem of those 3 because it resists all my attacks and I usually have to resort to subseeding it with Sceptile. But yeah, if it's not faced with a Tyranitar, this set kicks ass. And I do agree with what everyone's said about stallbreaking being more than one team member: my team as a whole is good at breaking stall. The only real exception is my scarf Yanmega lead but that still has Toxic. Subseeding is also excellent.
 
the best stall breaker in the uber metagame IMO is mono-attacking darkrai with Nasty Plot, Dark Void, Dark Pulse, and the kicker, SUBSTITUTE! If you can prevent your opponents forretress from setting up toxic spikes, this set can sweep an entire stall team, provided you use it at the right time.

So pretty much your entire team has to be able to not give forry a free switch in. POkemon like Mixed rayquaza, SD lucario, non-choiced palkia, kyogre, groudon with firepunch, mewtwo etc. Are good to go on a team with darkrai.

So if you are playing ubers and are having a hard time beating stall, just try that darkrai out, and as long as you dont let toxic spikes come up, i PROMISE you will win


EDIT// The set above does look useful for beating stall. A pokemon who looks like he would go GREAT on that team is a choice band infernape with U turn and stone edge as two of his attacks. This way you can pretty much OHKO latias who wish to switch in which really helps azelf sweep.
 
Latias@Leftovers
Timid
4 hp/252 SpAtk/252 spe
Dragon Pulse
Substitute
Calm Mind
Recover

This is a great tool against stall. It is immune to stats, so it can set up on non-seismic toss blissey. It usually sweeps a team with +6 SpAtk/Def. Recover off damage from subs. Blissey's ice beam doesnt do 25% after a calm mind, considering 80 SpAtk and a neutral nature. After 6 calm minds, blissey is 2hkoed. Dragon is also a great mono-atttacking type.
 
One of the best stallbreakers in UU is none other then Mismagius.

No no no, we're not talking about the very predictable subCM set. This is one that I made and it pretty much beats stall teams all by itself, once hazards are up of course. ^_^

Mismagius(F)@Leftovers
Nature:Calm
Ability:Levitate
Ev's:252HP/40Def/216SpD
-Shadow Ball
-Will-O-Wisp
-Taunt
-Pain Split

First function of this Mismagius is a spin blocker. Mismagius can handle all spin blockers (just watch out for Toxic on the switch-why is this getting so popular again?) such as Blastoise and Hitmontop. Foresight top is a pain but you should be able to outpredict it the second time around. The great thing about Mismagius is that she gets so many oppurtunities to switch into stall. The main move on this set is clearly Taunt. It allows you to shut down all the healing and support moves stall runs. Taunt causes that Chansey that can't hurt you to switch, racking up your own entry hazard damage. Taunt prevents recovery and allows Mismagius to go head to head with Venusaur and Milotic. All the while you cripple there physical switch-ins like Drapion with a burn. Clefable that run Seismic Toss as their only attack (and tons do) will be taunted and stalled out or forced out when you bring in a sweeper. This prevents it from also passing wish to it's teammates. Mismagius' naturally high speed allows it to Pain Split effectively against pretty much any member in stall, and gives it great survivability. Shadow Ball is for STAB obviously.
 
Thund91 said:
One of the best stallbreakers in UU is none other then Mismagius.

No no no, we're not talking about the very predictable subCM set. This is one that I made and it pretty much beats stall teams all by itself, once hazards are up of course. ^_^

Mismagius(F)@Leftovers
Nature:Calm
Ability:Levitate
Ev's:252HP/40Def/216SpD
-Shadow Ball
-Will-O-Wisp
-Taunt
-Pain Split

First function of this Mismagius is a spin blocker. Mismagius can handle all spin blockers (just watch out for Toxic on the switch-why is this getting so popular again?) such as Blastoise and Hitmontop. Foresight top is a pain but you should be able to outpredict it the second time around. The great thing about Mismagius is that she gets so many oppurtunities to switch into stall. The main move on this set is clearly Taunt. It allows you to shut down all the healing and support moves stall runs. Taunt causes that Chansey that can't hurt you to switch, racking up your own entry hazard damage. Taunt prevents recovery and allows Mismagius to go head to head with Venusaur and Milotic. All the while you cripple there physical switch-ins like Drapion with a burn. Clefable that run Seismic Toss as their only attack (and tons do) will be taunted and stalled out or forced out when you bring in a sweeper. This prevents it from also passing wish to it's teammates. Mismagius' naturally high speed allows it to Pain Split effectively against pretty much any member in stall, and gives it great survivability. Shadow Ball is for STAB obviously.
Click to expand...

In the suspect test, I found that this Mismagius set works much better against stall teams:

Mismagius@Leftovers
Modest (or Timid)/Levitate
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe

-Shadow Ball
-Calm Mind
-Taunt
-HP Ice

HP Ice OHKOs Altaria after a CM boost, Taunt means Top can't Foresight and Chansey can't status. It will also beat Spiritomb 1 on 1 if it comes in on 2 CM boosts (which it usually can, switch in on an immunity, CM on the switch, Taunt the top, CM on the switch to tomb, taunt tomb, CM again and 2HKO it).

A complete gimmick but it works (also takes out Torterra on offensive teams, which is a common switch-in, although it should run timid for RP versions).

Also this was my concept, but the test "ended" (still no votes) before I finished the team built around this one:

Absol@Lum Berry
Adamant/Super Luck
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe

-Swords Dance
-Night Slash
-Psycho Cut
-Superpower

Coverage SD Absol. After a SD he OHKOs a bulky Foresight top with Psycho cut. Spiritomb can't damage it, but it can burn, and that's what the Lum Berry is for. A burn from tomb is the only way 90% of stall teams have of stopping Absol, and with a SD on the switch and Lum Berry activation, he OHKOs Spiritomb with rocks, then every other member on a stall team.
 
@jrrrr: The player you are thinking of is Borat, who discussed this in a guide to competitive battling in the GSC generation.

One thing I've noticed in passing is that some stall players take it for granted that they can wear out certain threats that won't show themselves again after they've taken a good deal of damage. An example of this is Mixmence. The New Mixmence can 2HKO anything in OU, but if the stall player outpredicts the offense player, Mixmence is dead, taking 16.25% per turn just for attacking against opponents that can recover the damage. A Classic Mixmence with Roost suddenly makes it impossible for Hippowdon to phaze it out and say to itself: "I don't have to see that thing again". Similarly, a mono-attacker is a frightening thing for a stall team to face, because it really is not efficient to send Celebi against a CM Latias and have it take a boosted Dragon Pulse just to be able to use Perish Song to get it out. Also, Choice Banders such as Dragonite and Heracross rip holes in most stall teams.

It's not difficult to beat stall. What's difficult is having a plan for stall while dealing with offensive teams.
 
Choice Band Infernape is very useful against stall. It can 2HKO anything on an Obi Stall Team except Hippowdon, and nobody would initially switch to Hippowdon when faced with Infernape. Two common switch-ins, Latias and Cresselia, are both hit for critical damage with U-turn, and U-turn gives you the momentum in the match and force switches. Even Tentacruel can't stand up to Bandape due to Thunderpuch. Spikes and to a lesser extent Toxic Spikes are problematic due to how often Infernape will have to switch in.
 
Relying on a CBer (especially one that's vulnerable to Spikes and Toxic Spikes) as a main method of beating stall isn't really a great idea to be honest. In theory, you can 2HKO the standard stall team easily, but in reality, it's going to be taking atleast 25% on most of it's switches, and it's extremely unlikely that in the chances you get to use it, you're going to predict well enough to take out or cripple a Pokemon each time.
 
The standard Sub-CM Jirachi is actually pretty effective, setting up in Blissey's face and the like. Psychic is actually a pretty useful STAB to have against stall, beating special walls like Tentacruel. I prefer Signal Beam as the second attack, beating Cresselia and Tyranitar with little effort.
 
"Stall breaker" meaning a team or a member to stop stall. First Pokemon who came in my mind and is severely underrated is Taunt BulkyGyarados.

Frequent switch-ins:

Skarmory
Rotom
Celebi

Taunt shuts down Skarmory cold if it doesn't suspect it allowing you to throw up a second Dragon Dance. By the time your opponent brings in the common Scarf Rotom, its practically dead with Waterfall. Celebi can't do much with Grass Knot on the standard EV spread allowing you to throw in at least 2 DD and 2HKO with Stone Edge. Overall, it only has a few people to stop this guy. Leftovers is probably the most annoying item Gyarados holds, because Gyarados itself forces plenty of switch-outs giving him free turn recovery. Unlike other Stall-breaker Pokemon, they usually focus on destroying Stall alone but Taunt Gyarados works great against Balanced and offense teams. Give it proper team mates and this bad boy is almost unbeatable.
 
So if you are playing ubers and are having a hard time beating stall, just try that darkrai out, and as long as you dont let toxic spikes come up, i PROMISE you will win
Click to expand...
Alternatively, send Darkrai in on Forry and/or have Lum Berry. Lum can save you once against Blissey's Toxic. Combined with Wobba, who grants Darkrai a free Nasty Plot, Darkrai can get +6 against stall without even mindgaming the opponent (depends, actually). From there, Focus Blast OHKOes Blissey and everything else gets OHKOed by Dark Pulse. This Pokemon is probably the closest you'll getto be able to singlehandedly beat stall, provided that it is played properly

Giratina-O, though limited by Payback Forretress, can still be a stall breaker. Find a free switch in, Calm Mind, Sub on Blissey's Toxic, Dragon Pulse, etc. Endgame Giratina-O can be annoying to deal with as phazing is no longer an option. Another way Giratina-O can be used to stall break is by using it in an offensive team, where it sacrifices itself to ensure that the entry hazards from Deoxys-S stay intact, as I've seen Ike, Theory, and some others pull off. Since Forretresses stay in to Payback Giratina-O nowadays, I wonder if HP Fire Giratina-O is actually viable...hmmm...(especially when stall teams tend to lead with Groudon)
 
i used (on one of my not so successful teams) a giratina-o with outrage, HP fire, draco meteor, and shadow ball. It was kinda gimicky, but worked very well at pissing off stall as draco meteor + outrage KOs blissey with Sr and a layer of spikes.

Anyway, i had no trouble beating stall with that team because that giratina singlehandedly took out AT LEAST one pokemon on a stall team, and once one pokemon is dead, the team falls to pieces
 
I've found most OU stall teams to be completely helpless against this kind of Spiritomb

Spiritomb@Leftovers
Bold
252 HP/252 def/6 sp def
Pressure
-Calm Mind
-Dark Pulse
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

I can't think of anything commonly seen on a stall team that can beat this. Perish song celebi doesn't like taking dark pulses and blissey is stalled out by pressure. Sure, it might get phazed out by gyarados or skarmory, but once everything else on your team is dead you're guaranteed to win.
 
franky said:
"Stall breaker" meaning a team or a member to stop stall. First Pokemon who came in my mind and is severely underrated is Taunt BulkyGyarados.

Frequent switch-ins:

Skarmory
Rotom
Celebi

Taunt shuts down Skarmory cold if it doesn't suspect it allowing you to throw up a second Dragon Dance. By the time your opponent brings in the common Scarf Rotom, its practically dead with Waterfall. Celebi can't do much with Grass Knot on the standard EV spread allowing you to throw in at least 2 DD and 2HKO with Stone Edge. Overall, it only has a few people to stop this guy. Leftovers is probably the most annoying item Gyarados holds, because Gyarados itself forces plenty of switch-outs giving him free turn recovery. Unlike other Stall-breaker Pokemon, they usually focus on destroying Stall alone but Taunt Gyarados works great against Balanced and offense teams. Give it proper team mates and this bad boy is almost unbeatable.
Click to expand...
If someone has a scarf rotom, they aren't switching in Celebi. In fact, I haven't seen a Celebi on a stall team in a long time. Scarf Rotom OHKOs Gyarados and outspeeds after a DD while not being 2HKO'd by anything at +1. There is absolutely nothing Gyarados can do against him.
 
Heh, My uberstall isn't perfect but I can beat both NP Darkrai and Dragon Pulse Giratina. The pokemon that helps me with this is Mewtwo. Mewtwo can outspeed Darkrai and OHKO with Aurasphere (switch in on a Nasty Plot/Focus Blast) , while setting up Light Screen against Giratina and breaking it down with Ice Punch (no leftovers really helps with this.) Stall teams have to be creative to beat the common stallbreakers, and stallbreakers have to respond. For example, to beat Thund's Mismagius, on one of my stall teams, I ran Guts Payback Hariyama which didn't mind Will-o-Wisp or Taunt and could take a Shadow Ball.

Let's go by tier for my favorite stallbreakers:

Uber: Tail Glow Rest Manaphy. It can be roared out by Giratina/Latias but is a menace as the last poke. Obviously stall teams with Groudon can get rid of its rain, then Toxic it, but that's why it's a team effort. Take Groudon down, then bring Kyogre in again. Alternately, you can run Rain Dance on Manaphy to deal with this problem, since +6 Surf is really all you need attackwise except for CM Latias (where Ice Beam would come in handy over Rain Dance.) Celebi and its Perish Song are a rare site in Ubers so you don't have to worry about that.

OU: New Mixmence with Roost over EQ. I never found EQ useful for breaking stall where Skarm and Forry are the most common Steels. Roost helps sustain your life so you can keep coming in on SR and taking LO damage. You still need a lot of prediction to not let Latias get a free switch-in but some Latias will be slower than you which renders that moot. That's one reason why I run 252 Spd Timid Latias on my OU stall team.

Another combo I like is DD Taunt Gyarados and CB Tar. Gyarados can Taunt the Rotom switch-in, preventing it from Will-o-Wisping and crippling and possibly beating TTar. Once Rotom goes down, Stall generally falls apart, especially against Gyarados.

UU: Thund's Mismagius. If you've ever ran stall against him, you'll know why. I've seen a lot of other stallbreakers, but Thund's Mismagius is easily the best. Things like Taunt SD Drapion and Taunt Nasty Plot Houndoom are beaten by somewhat common members of stall Steelix and Milotic respectively, but Mismagius really requires you to go out of your way to beat it.

In conclusion, stall can be beaten, but it isn't that easy. Stall teams just need to be a little creative and prepare for the common stallbreakers a bit better.
 
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