Stop Using Him! (Dragonite Discussion)

[Thorns]

For a wallbreaker, Mixnite is definitely better.

If by 'wall breaker' you mean SkarmBliss counter, then sure, use Dragonite. But Infernape is still the best at that, so that's a moot point. The only real advantage of using Dragonite is really his resistances. The ability to come in on Earthquake and Close Combat is really valuable.

as RL stated, the only reason Salamence isn't always used over Dragonite for eliminating defensive threats is because of Superpower. If you aren't using Superpower, you can go jump.

 

[Chou Toshio]

As long as this isn't/wasn't grave digging . . .

People have a bad miss-conception that wall-breakers don't need to be fast because they only think about walls like Blissey, Skarm and Hippo. Fact is that there are walls with speed-- Gliscor, Zappy, Celebi, Jirachi, Tentacruel, are some key defensive pokes who Dragonite would have issues trying to outrun, and all of them could be very useful for it to outrun, while Mix-mence or a truly devoted wall-breaker like Infernape would be running to the speed to outrun these guys. Except Celebi (sort of), all 5 of those are taken out by Mence DM/EQ (Zappy rarely runs the sp.def needed to survive a draco meteor even from neutral nature, no chance after SR damage).

Then there are a bunch of tanks/support pokes hanging out in the 70-80 speed range like Metagross, Heatran, Gyrados, Rotom-A, Suicune, Cresselia, who can and will run speed on occasion, and are not exactly opponents dragonite would be thrilled to be out-paced by.

 

[Melles]

Hey, I was wondering about particular support options for Dragonite. Dragonite ties for the slowest fully evolved dragon with Altaria, so I was wondering if a Brave Dragonite would still be too fast for Trick Room. I calculate roughly 72 speed at level 50, factoring in Brave, 0 EVs, and 0 IVs. Or would a Trick Room Dragonite fall into "useless gimmick," because several potential counters are still slower than a -Speed Nite?

Just a thought.

 

[darkseeker4]

Hey, I was wondering about particular support options for Dragonite. Dragonite ties for the slowest fully evolved dragon with Altaria, so I was wondering if a Brave Dragonite would still be too fast for Trick Room. I calculate roughly 72 speed at level 50, factoring in Brave, 0 EVs, and 0 IVs. Or would a Trick Room Dragonite fall into "useless gimmick," because several potential counters are still slower than a -Speed Nite?

Just a thought.

dragonite is great for TR.I have tried it before.It certainly outclasses salamence in a TR team lol.
I think i used something like this...

Dragonite @ LO
Brave
252 att/252 sp.att/6 def.(maybe too offensive.some bulk would'nt hurt)
~Outrage/Dragon Claw/Draco meteor(not sure which is most effective :/)
~Superpower
~T-bolt/roost
~Flamethrower/Fire Blast

 

[Melles]

dragonite is great for TR.I have tried it before.It certainly outclasses salamence in a TR team lol.
I think i used something like this...

Dragonite @ LO
Brave
252 att/252 sp.att/6 def.(maybe too offensive.some bulk would'nt hurt)
~Outrage/Dragon Claw/Draco meteor(not sure which is most effective :/)
~Superpower
~T-bolt/roost
~Flamethrower/Fire Blast

Well, with Brave, Outrage and Dragon Claw are boosted even further. Draco Meteor hits hard regardless, but it's not boosted by nature. If you get TR up, not many pokes don't have at least a little speed to outrun something, so if you hit as hard as possible with the largest coverage available, you may not need it. If you keep getting Nite hurt by slower pokes, then maybe a bit of bulk would be a good idea. I just was asking because I've become strongly interested on several field effects.

Now, on the other hand, has anyone tried it in gravity? Granted, it's not the most popular choice, but Mence is suggested for it in the Gravity article that's being worked on, and Dragonite also can learn some moves that will be improved in Gravity. For instance, Dragon Rush is 20 points weaker than Outrage, but in Gravity, it hits 100% of the time, does not lock you in, and has a flinch chance. Sure, Mence could do that, but can Mence fire off 83% accurate Dynamic Punches from the 3rd Gen tutor in Gravity? No statistical backlash from Superpower, more powerful than Brick Break and the 100% confusion chance boosts the viablity of this set farther. Granted, 83% is not great, but many people use Hydro Pump, and thats only a couple points more accurate out of Gravity, so why not? This set could cause headaches in tandem with Body Slam, Thunder, or Thunder Wave, making a sort of Parafusion/flinch combo. And if a Wide Lens is equipped, Dynamic Punch can be really close to reliable in Gravity, and other moves may be much better. With Gravity or Wide Lens, the small chance of Draco Meteor missing is eliminated. Granted, Wide Lens makes Dragonite niether more study nor more powerful, but I think that a Gravnite could be a very interesting set to try out.

Now, all that said, Mence can do different things in Gravity. 100% Hydro Pumps sting like the devil. So I don't know. I have not played much with Trick Room or Gravity, but I think that these sets are worth giving an attempt.

 

[WarriorPrince]

I use the mixnite set on my triple entente team. Triple Steel Triple Dragon.

He stopped most of the counters dead cold, and even though most people knew the set. It hit them a bit too. Roost also help with recovering life orb and stealth rock.

**I never understood why the Support set uses a -Atk nature and Dragon Pulse, instead of just going Careful and Dragon Claw.

 

[Kryuell]

Nice post RaikouLover, thanks. Here is the Dragonite I have been using (thanks again)

Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers ** Dragon-Knight
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Thunder Wave

 

[blasphemy1]

Um, you're using a Heal Bell / ThunderWave / Roost / Dragon Claw / Dragon Dance / Outrage Dragonite?

>.<;

I was referring to the support set, not the bulky sweeper; and in sweeping terms, Bulky Latias' Calm Mind is hardly a pushover.

I was referring to the fact that less shit is willing to switch into Dragonite than Latias, maybe because it 2HKOs everything in the game after a DD, except Cresselia? This allows him to pull off Heal Bell easier, as Pursuit users, such as Scizor, Tyranitar, and Metagross, won't switch in.

As for bulky Latias, yes, it is great, the problem is it needs Substitute, as Refresh/Psycho Shift leaves you vulnerable to the aforementioned Pursuiters, while running Reflect leaves you vulnerable to Blissey's Toxic. With Substitute, it can scout for counters, then switch. I am not saying CM Latias is a pushover, as I have destroyed plenty of teams with it, I am just saying Dragonite is not at all outclassed.

 

[DazzlingAddar]

I'm a huge Dragonite fan, myself, so naturally, I think this is a great topic. Clericnite is definitely one of my favorite sets. Whenever I switch him in, my opponent expects a dragon dance or outrage and get zapped by Thunderwave instead- they always seem to underestimate his bulkniess, too. And from my experience, a lot of people don't even know Dragonite even learns heal bell- some of the reactions I've seen were priceless.