Originally Posted by MetaNite
The Stronger Sweeper
- Salamence: it has more attack, and a lot more speed. Sure, you can use some gimmicky Light Screen set or use Substitute, but Mence is still more threatening.
Yes.
The Faster Sweeper
- Salamence: Aha! This is what many people don't understand, but there is more to it than this. Being faster means Salamence can drop some EVs to bolster its defenses until they are similiar to Dragonite's.
Yes, Salamence is the faster sweeper. But Salamence cannot duplicate Dragonite's defenses (c'mon man, I went through this in the OP at great length). The only "argument" for Salamence is intimidate, but even that is situational because the pokemon switches out 9 times out of 10, meaning Dragonite is now bulkier once again.
More Useful Ability
- Salamence: Although Inner Focus has its merits (particurly against Fake Out, Iron Head, and Air Slash), Intimidate is quite frankly, more intimidating. It allows Mence to take physical hits better than Dragonite even though it has less base defense.
It takes physical hits better on your target. Yes, I will switch Salamence into Heracross and Lucario before I switch Dragonite into them. However, don't kid yourself if you think Scizor's Bullet Punch is going to take more off Dragonite.
Better Wall Breaker
- Dragonite: This one is close. However, Nite is able to OHKO many walls who Mence can not, namely Blissey and Gyarados. If your foe is not using a slow bulky team, then you might aswell use Mence because it can actually sweep with Outrage.
Yes, to everything.
Larger Movepool- Unpredictability
- Dragonite: This is true. The only moves he misses out on is Crunch (which doesn't complement Outrage at all), Zen Headbutt (lol), and Wish which is more gimmicky than most of Nite's sets. While Dragonite possesses, Thunderbolt and T-Punch (for Gyarados, bulky waters harder than Draco Meteor), Ice Beam and Ice Punch (For Gliscor, Torterra I guess), Fire Punch, T-Wave, Agility, Heal Bell, Light Screen, previously Outrage (until Game Freak lost their mind again), Waterfall (perfect accuracy and flinch), Focus Punch and probably most notably, SuperPower.
Yes, Dragonite has a better movepool, but Salamence's unpredictability is actually more threatening since his Draco Meteor / Outrage stings just a tad more than Dragonite's.
Better Bulky Sweeper / Wall
- Salamence: You might be thinking, but Dragonite has Light Screen and Heal Bell! Don't kid yourself. Yes, they work. Yes, they work well. Do they work better than Salamence? No. Like I said before, Salamence is faster. It can switch in on Lucario safely, and kill it. Dragonite would come in and get KOed before he realizes what's happened. On the special side, I've tried to come up with a set for Dragonite that replicates the Specially Bulky set, but it is not possible. To acheive the same SpD, Dragonite needs less EVs. However, it still can't reach the same speed and attack stat (by like 3 stat points though) so it should not be used.
Divide this up into two. Better physical wall: Salamence. Better special wall: Dragonite. Better bulky sweeper, Dragonite AND Salamence. Again, I went through this in the OP and it isn't so cut and dry. Dragonite shouldn't try to duplicate Salamence's speed ever. So if you use a Jolly nature, yes Dragonite is outclassed. But if Salamence tries to duplicate Dragonite's defenses, it is outclassed (it simply cannot do this). Take a look at how the Specially Bulky Salamence set is played, its aim is to beat Cresselia and shit. Well Cresselia isn't OHKOing Dragonite anyway, who can use Safeguard or some bullshit against Thunder- Wave. I mean don't forget Dragonite has a good 2-3 sets devoted to this strategy (Sub + SpD berry, Light Screen, etc.) and neither can be done more effectively with Salamence.
How will my opponent react?
There is not really a winner for this category. Generally, when I see a Salamence I bring in my Bronzong or Vaporeon, Steel or bulky-Water. When I see a Mence, I have no doubt my SpecsJolt or Porygon-Z can revenge kill it.
What happens when my foe brings in a Dragonite? I have to be more cautious because Nite is more unpredictable, as previously stated. However, I'd still bring in the same Pokemon. So really, Nite doesn't have a big advantage at all. Just thought I'd point that out. Both Pokemon almost always use a Dragon attack, a Ground attack, and a Fire move (on offensive sets) and unfortunately, these sets are still Nite's most popular. Hopefully, this thread will change that and soon the foe will have to worry about T-Wave.
Moot point. They react the same.
Better Aesthetics
- Dragonite: I'm pretty sure most people agree on this. Mence is a fat, strangely shaped, evil looking dragon. Dragonite is a cool looking, orange floating Dragon who is cutely chubby. Too bad this doesn't matter in the competitive category.
I can agree with this.
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Salamence and Dragonite both split with "yes, but" in all categories. Lets be honest, it isn't so cut and dry. But for the average Joe, Salamence speed and Intimidate will make him more used and for a good reason. He is much easier to slap Dragon Dance on sweep with. He is much easier to slap a life orb on and just press buttons, that is why he is more used.
Salamence is a different Pokemon than Dragonite.
However this does not necessarily mean you will win more games using Salamence, that Dragonite is useless. It's all about your team, your skills, and how you take advantage of your opponent. If you can do this with Dragonite, go ahead.
