Stoutland (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Don't see what your point is. Pursuit is already getting a slash, and it actually is pretty easy to run a Pursuit user. Not sure if you are pushing for it to be a main slash but I don't see that happening at this stage.

Two Choice Band users are fine, I know others that have used them effectively, and I myself have been able to use them effectively (heck I ran 4 choice users on my most recent RMT so??).

Choice tar got nerfed due to tornadus t since it outspeeds scarf and its hard to fit pursuit on the mixed attacker set.
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Almost 50% of all Tyranitar ran Pursuit in June. While this is a new metagame, lots of people can and do run Pursuit on there Tyranitar, and as shown, its not at all uncommon. Choice Tar didn't get totally nerfed either. Choice Band Tar still works and still runs Pursuit and its still very effective in this metagame.

Crunch as the main slash, and then Pursuit is heavily advised (after discussing it with people) and thats the way most of QC feel the analysis should be.
 
Pursuit should be the main slash. What targets does Crunch hit that is dire to the set?. Unlike Choice Band Tyranitar it can trap Gengar and Alakazam with ease .. Choice teams rely on prediction which can make the team unreliable in a consistency standpoint though thats not even relevant to the point that Pursuit should be the main slash..
 
Yeah, you shouldn't forget what Stoutland is supposed to be here. He's an attacker, not a utility mon, which is why Crunch is the main slash, because it helps you break past troublesome Ghosts like Jellicent.
 
Wild Charge hits Jellicent for just as much damage and the recoil is minimal so thats a moot point. Stoutland isn't a support mon just because he is using Pursuit.. Pursuit helps Stoutland eliminate the opponent's team on the switch which is very offensive imo. Pursuit takes Gengar out of the picture which checks it and most importantly prevents return spam. Stoutland is one of the few pursuiters able to take down Alakazam and it can pick off things like weakened Therians with prediction.
 
Bri is actually making some pretty good points. Crunch hits very little for significant damage that Return doesn't already approach. Their BP disparity is a whopping 7 points, super effective and neutral STAB damage respectively. Pursuit has immense utility as a trapping move and removes a lot of OU Pokemon with good prediction, unlike Crunch (PS: if you're going to spam a move on bulky Psychics, have it be Return so that they don't switch into something more dangerous for free). Crunch is looking pretty OO atm.
 
I agree with SJ Crew and Bri. Pursuit seems to bet the best option, as Jellicent is already 2hkoed with Wild Charge, and a super effective Crunch has only 7 more BP than a neutral Return. Out of the 10 matches that i played this hour, in 3 of them i could have trapped a weakened Tornadus-T with Pursuit, but i didn't have it. In the other hand i didn't even use Crunch once...
 
Holy crap when did all this happen O_o

Anyway, I'm going to make Wild Charge the sole option. It has been mentioned several times (including by me) that Ice Fang only hits Gliscor hard enough to be relevant (everything else gets its ass kicked by Return). Its not like the 4th move is important in the first place; its mainly for 2 Pokemon (Jellicent and Skarmory). If you see Thundurus-T on the opponenet's side, just use Return. Same with stuff like Jolteon.

Fire Fang could be slashed though. Not only does it hit Jirachi, but it also hits Forretress and Scizor, which are two huge counters. Regardless, Ice Fang is now in OO.

Iron Head and Thunder Fang are out of here.

I added Sableye to the counters.

I got more in depth about Tyranitar and Hippowdon. Also mentioned a Double-Sand possibility.

I already mentioned Magnezone for the purpose of taking down Steel-types, so I don't see a need to lure them in when Magzeone already traps them.

Given the popularity of substitute Gliscor, I'm adding Mamoswine as a partner since it can Icicle Spear through a Substitute or just hit it hard with Icicle Crash or Ice Shard. It also gets Earthquake to screw over Jirachi. Landorus (Both Formes) are also being added.

Pursuit is getting the primary slash now over Crunch and I'm going to add Pokemon like Latios and Gengar as targets. There are only 2 Ghost types in OU: Jellicient (Wild Charge), and Gengar (weak). Also Sableye isn't weak to Crunch.

Stoutland doesn't really need much Entry hazard support to weaken Steels thanks to partners like Magnezone. It needs Stealth Rock to OHKO Salamence but Tyranitar and Hippowdon are already mentioned to set it up. This is especially important since Skarmory doesn't care about Spikes, Forretress can spin them away, and Scizor can Bullet Punch regardless or heal Damage with Roost. Stoutland hits so hard anyway that even some tanks can get 2HKO'd. Technically, every Pokemon needs hazards, but Stoutland's "Revenge Killer" status means that spikes aren't as important as an option compared to other Pokemon.

I'm not going to overload on Weather counters, but Dugtrio will be added for Sun and Virizion and Celebi for the more dangerous Rain (sorry Hail, but nobody likes you).

I'm not really understanding what was meant by the Latios point, but it seems similar to Gengar and Alakazam...

tl;dr - Yes: Added Mamoswine and Landorus/Landorus-T as Partners, described Tyranitar and Hippowdon more, Ice Fang to OO, Thunder Fang and Iron Head are no more, Pursuit>Crunch, Sableye is a counter, "Win the weather war" partners, Fire Fang in the Counters section.

No: Steel types lures like Reuniclus (Magnezone is all you need), Spikes (doesn't really need Spikes)

Edit: Latios and Latias were added as Partners.
 
Personally, I agree with Bri - Pursuit provides an additional useful utility for Stoutland to pick off dangerous threats like Latios and Starmie. And it's pretty good at it, too, since all of these mons are afraid of Stoutland's powerful STAB Return. Other than killing stuff by spamming Return, it can now remove a lot of threats for the team once and for all.

Wild Charge hits Jellicent and Sableye harder than Crunch. Gengar takes ~77% damage minimum when it comes in - it's taking Sand and SR damage, plus it's getting forced out (meaning it will take another SR damage); Gengar's pretty much useless after eating a Wild Charge. Unless Cofagrigus is on the rise or something, I don't see much use for Crunch that would make it more useful than Pursuit.

EDIT: Swamp Rocket, Latias and Latios are great checks to Rain and Sun. In addition it does a good job in crippling Steel with boosted HP Fires and / or Trick.
 
Oh and something else. In the AC you mention that a Jolly nature is a possibility to outrun Scarf Terrakion and Latios. You could mention that Jolly is also useful to outrun a good chunk to Cloyster after a Shell Smash with Wild Charge.
 
Lati@s are both great partners for the aforementioned reasons, Meru (puke) was the one who originally popularized Stoutland on Beta when he got #1 with it a while ago and recently too his alt Ninety.. ugh he's such a (BAN ME PLEASE) /rant. Gravity Landot also can lure in Skarmory which is always helpful and be sure to emphasize that using Tyranitar doubles up on the fighting weakness
 
I think giving Landorus Gravity to lure in a few Pokemon is a bit overkill considering there are other partners (Magnezone and Lati@s) to consider if you really hate Skarmory that much that are already mentioned in the skeleton.

EDIT: If you need to lure in Skarmory that badly, Stoutland's Wild Charge is almost solely for hitting the metal bird and can 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
 
it's a legitimate set and a great lure for both bronzong and skarmory which both trouble stoutland..it's definitely a great partner since it also resists fighting
 
Gravity is a godsend to Landorus Incarnate and Therian. It wont be much of a lure to Skarmory, but they wreck with Gravity.
 
Also, a nitpick about what Pocket said earlier: winning the weather war is not that dire on Stoutland's end, as neither of the other weather starters can switch in on Tyranitar easily, and Stoutland can easily maintain momentum on his own, even if they come in on the revenge. At best, it is worth a couple of sentences about how dependent Stoutland is on his weather and trappers that can defeat Tales/Toed.
 
Pocket said:
Gravity is a godsend to Landorus Incarnate and Therian. It wont be much of a lure to Skarmory, but they wreck with Gravity.
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This doesn't explain why I should put it in the analysis. I am completely aware that it is a good set, but Gravity is almost completely irrelavent to Stoutland and how it functions.

More importantly, both of Landorus's formes are mentioned already as partners.

Princess Bri said:
it's a legitimate set and a great lure for both bronzong and skarmory which both trouble stoutland..it's definitely a great partner since it also resists fighting .
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Landorus and Landorus-T can destroy Steel-types like Jirachi with STAB Eathquakes. Landorus also gets a Sand Force boost if sandstorm is up, while Landorus-T can take Fighting moves with ease.
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Also, Magnezone can take on Bronzong and Skarmory and Latias/Latios cripples both of them... I've mentioned this twice already.

SJCrew said:
Also, a nitpick about what Pocket said earlier: winning the weather war is not that dire on Stoutland's end, as neither of the other weather starters can switch in on Tyranitar easily, and Stoutland can easily maintain momentum on his own, even if they come in on the revenge. At best, it is worth a couple of sentences about how dependent Stoutland is on his weather and trappers that can defeat Tales/Toed
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I gave 5 solid partners for the sole purpose of trapping weather starters and dealing with weather teams, so I don't understand how I am lacking by any means in that regard. Dugtrio for Ninetales and low health Politoed, Virizion and Celebi for Politoed and rain in general, Latios/Latias for Sun and Rain in general, and 3 bullet points (about 5 sentences) are dedicated to choosing a Sandstorm Pokemon. The overview also says Stoutland is pretty bad outside of a Sandstorm, and I mentioned in the counters section that changing the weather makes it "much slower and easier to revenge kill." Do I really need more on weather? If so, what else? I really can't think of how much more to say that Stoutland needs Sandstorm support in a Skeleton :(
 
Swamp-Rocket said:
I gave 5 solid partners for the sole purpose of trapping weather starters and dealing with weather teams, so I don't understand how I am lacking by any means in that regard. Dugtrio for Ninetales and low health Politoed, Virizion and Celebi for Politoed and rain in general, Latios/Latias for Sun and Rain in general, and 3 bullet points (about 5 sentences) are dedicated to choosing a Sandstorm Pokemon. The overview also says Stoutland is pretty bad outside of a Sandstorm, and I mentioned in the counters section that changing the weather makes it "much slower and easier to revenge kill." Do I really need more on weather? If so, what else? I really can't think of how much more to say that Stoutland needs Sandstorm support in a Skeleton :(
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You read what you quoted right? That was the polar opposite of 'write more'. I was telling Pocket that you don't have to go in-depth on the weather war, since the cards are usually in Stoutland's favor by the time he comes in. Politoed doesn't usually switch directly in on Tyranitar, and Ninetales definitely doesn't, so Stoutland will almost always have his weather up when he comes in, aside from the lategame. You are doing fine.
 
SJCrew said:
You read what you quoted right? That was the polar opposite of 'write more'. I was telling Pocket that you don't have to go in-depth on the weather war, since the cards are usually in Stoutland's favor by the time he comes in. Politoed doesn't usually switch directly in on Tyranitar, and Ninetales definitely doesn't, so Stoutland will almost always have his weather up when he comes in, aside from the lategame. You are doing fine.
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Thanks for clearing that up. I was just thinking for some reason that "A couple sentences" meant "write more."

But yeah, I think I'm ready for QC approvals, since I think I got most things that I need done...
 
Incidentally, Politoed is slower than Stoutland (bar choice scarf) and even the bulky set is 2HKO'd by Return as long as stealth rock is on the field. Specs is outsped and OHKO'd even if coming in after stoutland kills something and Scarf is OHKO'd if it tries to switch in...so Politoed really has issues dealing with the dog.
 
No: Steel types lures like Reuniclus (Magnezone is all you need), Spikes (doesn't really need Spikes)
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Add Steel-type lures; Magnezone cannot trap all Steels (ie CM Jirachi, Jirachi with Fire Punch, Heatran, Shed Shell Skarmory), and some people prefer not to use a poke-slot on Magnezone, so these alternatives would be helpful for them.
 
Pocket said:
Add Steel-type lures; Magnezone cannot trap all Steels (ie CM Jirachi, Jirachi with Fire Punch, Heatran, Shed Shell Skarmory), and some people prefer not to use a poke-slot on Magnezone, so these alternatives would be helpful for them.
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Latios and Latias were implemented as Steel-type lures when you suggested it about 8 posts ago. Also, Landorous-(T) was also implemented before that as a Pokemon that deals with Steel-types. I think I got enough alternatives to Magnezone.
 
Are you really arguing about how you have "enough" alternatives to Magnezone? There's absolutely nothing wrong in mentioning additional lures to present more available options to the readers. Landorus are no lures for Steel-types, so the only alternative you have presented so far are the Lati dragons.

Please stop being unnecessarily stubborn and implement the changes so I can QC stamp this.
 
Pocket said:
Are you really arguing about how you have "enough" alternatives to Magnezone? There's absolutely nothing wrong in mentioning additional lures to present more available options to the readers. Landorus are no lures for Steel-types, so the only alternative you have presented so far are the Lati dragons.

Please stop being unnecessarily stubborn and implement the changes so I can QC stamp this.
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I added Reuniclus.

I know I'm acting a little stubborn, but I actually had more lures and counters listed in the artile I didn't list in my previous post. Excluding the aformentioned Reuniclus I just added, they are as follows:



Trappers
  • Magezone
  • Dugtrio - Not listed as countering Steel-types, but it does counter many, including most Jirachi.
Lures
  • Latios - Trick and Hidden Power
  • Latias - Trick and Hidden Power
  • Celebi - Earth Power
Hitting them hard
  • Landorous - Also has Gravity
  • Landorous-T - Also has Gravity
  • Mamoswine
  • Virizion
  • Hippowdon - Also has Sandstream
That's 10 Pokemon, which is a decent amount of the OU tier. If its just lures or trappers that matter... there were still quite a number. I forgot about a lot of these guys in the previous post, but when about 20% of the tier is included as a Pokemon that deals with Steel-types, I think that is enough. This is every steel-countering partner suggested aside from Shaymin, Im pretty sure!
 
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