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strategies for countering trick

DragonKnight900 said:
Trick has low usage because it only needs to be used once in a match to be effective.

The most I have ever tricked in a match was twice once to exchange Choice Scarf for a Focus Sash . . . and then once I took a hit Focus Sash for Leftovers.

Moves like Wish and Calm Mind are moves that more pokes cary and are spammed in battle.
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Yes, but the usage statistics are based on the frequency the move is carried, not the frequency it is used. I mean, look at Stealth Rock. It is likely used only once per fight, and it has like 10% usage.

I think that Trick is a necessary evil. It is the only thing that truly counters all-out stall, which keeps the metagame from becoming far too boring. It also weakens Blissey, which I think is a huge plus. Having a Blissey on a team without the presence of Trick in the metagame essentially makes it so that every special attacker ever is useless. I mean really. I was recently playing against my brother, who just started playing and thus was not using trick. Whenever he had a special attacker out, here comes Blissey. I get a "free" switch-in and a free Thunderwave or whatever I want on whatever Pokemon he switches in to Blissey.
 
wildfire393 said:
Yes, but the usage statistics are based on the frequency the move is carried, not the frequency it is used. I mean, look at Stealth Rock. It is likely used only once per fight, and it has like 10% usage.

I think that Trick is a necessary evil. It is the only thing that truly counters all-out stall, which keeps the metagame from becoming far too boring. It also weakens Blissey, which I think is a huge plus. Having a Blissey on a team without the presence of Trick in the metagame essentially makes it so that every special attacker ever is useless. I mean really. I was recently playing against my brother, who just started playing and thus was not using trick. Whenever he had a special attacker out, here comes Blissey. I get a "free" switch-in and a free Thunderwave or whatever I want on whatever Pokemon he switches in to Blissey.
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Special Fighting Attacks (Lucario, Alakazam, Gengar) and Pokemon that can boost their SpA (Slowking, Jirachi, Celebi) can give Blissey a run for her money.

And even if you don't have those, SpA are hardly useless as once Blissey gets taken out by a Physical attacker, the opposing team is likely wide open for Special Attacks.

The Trick bug on Shoddy makes it too powerful, and it's basically unpunishable.
 
Jiggy-Ninja said:
Special Fighting Attacks (Lucario, Alakazam, Gengar) and Pokemon that can boost their SpA (Slowking, Jirachi, Celebi) can give Blissey a run for her money.

And even if you don't have those, SpA are hardly useless as once Blissey gets taken out by a Physical attacker, the opposing team is likely wide open for Special Attacks.

The Trick bug on Shoddy makes it too powerful, and it's basically unpunishable.
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Max SpA Modest Lucario's Specs'ed Aura Sphere has a CHANCE of 2HKOing Blisseys that do not invest heavily in Special Defense. Against Calm 252 SpD Blissey, it will do a Maximum of 48%, meaning it will never ever 2HKO.
And that's the absolute strongest special attack there is against Blissey without significant boostage from CM or Nasty Plot.
Even things like Togekiss's +6 Air Slash require maximum damage from two consecutive hits to get a 2HKO on 252/Calm Blissey, and that's with 252 SpA Modest. Jirachi's +6 Psychic is in a similar boat.

Admittedly, yes, the Trick bug on Shoddy makes it too good. But it still serves as a good check to Blissey, and I feel it makes special attackers more worth using.
 
Exclamation Point said:
In regards to Trick and depending on my options these seem to always work well for me...

Switch in mixed attacker
Switch in Gastrodon or Muk
Switch in Trick user
Substitute
Taunt

or plain out kill it.
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Those options don't work unless the poke you already have in when they send in a Trick user has one of those moves, and even if it did, it still doesn't stop a Scarf from being tricked, as the Trick user will be faster because of it.
 
I generally use a Bronzong lead to set up stealth rock then explode (azelf can do the same thing). Most of the trickers i've seen so far have been leads, so usually I get tricked into stealth rock. Bronzong is fairly sturdy, so he's easy to get back in to boom when an opportune time comes. I know this won't work for sash leads if the tricker comes out mid-match, but so far letting zong take the hit has worked for me. I haven't been playing DPPt for very long, though.
 
Scoopapa makes a good point. Getting an Exploder Tricked is like getting a trump card to eliminate one non-Ghost, and maybe dead-stop a sweep - close to a best-case scenario for taking a Trick.
 
Steinhauser said:
Scoopapa makes a good point. Getting an Exploder Tricked is like getting a trump card to eliminate one non-Ghost, and maybe dead-stop a sweep - close to a best-case scenario for taking a Trick.
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Except a Bronzong with a Scarf is still not outspeeding much, especially if EV'd/IV'd for max Gyro Ball Damage.
 
I say mine, I hate really this tactic, especially if the Pokémon that comes tricked in your team is Blissey or other special Wall. They make Trick on Blissey, once tricking you the shuffling with a PHazer. The NastyPiloter of turn arrives (Example Togekiss, Pokémon really very unpleasant to already face of his, if then you have a Special Wall that he has suffered a Trick it practically becomes impossible to face) and the team devastates yourself, without counting that this movement increases the number of Taunt-Pokémon you introduce in the metagame.
 
I've noticed that more often than not, if any pokemon is going to trick a choice item onto you, it's going to be the lead. Solution: lead with a generic sweeper, ideally one that can easily OHKO or 2HKO the vast majority of trick leads.
 
Objection said:
I've noticed that more often than not, if any pokemon is going to trick a choice item onto you, it's going to be the lead. Solution: lead with a generic sweeper, ideally one that can easily OHKO or 2HKO the vast majority of trick leads.
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I would never lead with my Trick Rotom-H. ;)
 
Rotom-[Insert Form Letter] is never a lead and is one of the most common users of trick.

Lead Jirachi / Metagross / Alakazam mean that you have to worry about an incoming trick.

I don't understand how/why trick is allowed on Shoddy in the first place the way it currently works. Its like when Fly was dealing massive damage and was considered broken no one was allowed to use it. Why is the community allowing Trick to be used when it isn't implemented properly.

Is the idea to be playing Pokemon to its "truest" form, not couting all the extra bans, clauses and rules already implemented. Trick not working properly is a coding bug but it could be a slippery slope till other moves are coded improperly and allowed to be in existence.
 
wildfire393 said:
Max SpA Modest Lucario's Specs'ed Aura Sphere has a CHANCE of 2HKOing Blisseys that do not invest heavily in Special Defense. Against Calm 252 SpD Blissey, it will do a Maximum of 48%, meaning it will never ever 2HKO.
And that's the absolute strongest special attack there is against Blissey without significant boostage from CM or Nasty Plot.
Even things like Togekiss's +6 Air Slash require maximum damage from two consecutive hits to get a 2HKO on 252/Calm Blissey, and that's with 252 SpA Modest. Jirachi's +6 Psychic is in a similar boat.

Admittedly, yes, the Trick bug on Shoddy makes it too good. But it still serves as a good check to Blissey, and I feel it makes special attackers more worth using.
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actually lucario's focus blast is the strongest special move against blissey, being a guaranteed 2HKO with specs (assuming no misses)

What is there else to say. It should not be allowed while it doesn't work properl
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yeah I don't see why we should be allowed to use a move that besides the name, doesn't exist in the world of pokemon.
 
These 'counters' don't work too well if multiple Pokemon on your opponents team have Trick. I fought someone whom of which at least four of his Pokemon had Trick. Not really much choice in the matter.

I despise Trick becoming so unexclusive. Before it wasn't the same problem, and a pretty gamebreaking move but it was exclusive, whereas now so many Pokemon that are often used anyway can learn it also, but it remains just as irritating, if not more so because of the Pokemon that now have access to it.
 
Syberia said:
It would be much easier to counter if Trick worked correctly on Shoddy.
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Trick on shoddy isnt broken. Every time you get a new scarf, you can choose a new move.
Solution: Do what i do and say "screw that" and do whatever you were doing anyway.
That means my solrock lead uses EXPLOSION!
 
luxormaniac said:
Trick on shoddy isnt broken. Every time you get a new scarf, you can choose a new move.
Solution: Do what i do and say "screw that" and do whatever you were doing anyway.
That means my solrock lead uses EXPLOSION!
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Huh. It does have a problem. The Tricker should be locked into Trick if it has passed a Choice item and received another. It doesn't work like that, just like Fly. I know there's a huge difference (Trick can't 6-0 a team) here, but it doesn't mean we should just say "screw that".
 
I love using trick, but it seems to be used more by others than me. I usually just get my walls the hell out of there when I know it's coming. The hard part about these days is EVERYTHING knows it! Starmie shows up and next thing you know I'm screaming at my computer screen because I got goddamnedly tricked again! My favorite tricker has to be Rotom-H though. Trick/Overheat/Shadow Ball/Thunder Wave or Thunderbolt with a Scarf is:

a) Awesome
b) Has good type coverage
c) Is a trick counter

Only thing is, when you get into that Rotom tricking Rotom rhubarb, the whole game flies off the handle and nothing and nobody is safe. I'd say it's better actually to accept the scarf and find something appropriate to take it, than to try and counter the trick.

Try switching in that life orb Scizor, you won't regret it! Other good choices are sash or orb alakazam, and that Mixape that you probably won't get to SD/NP anyways...you know the one I'm talking about. Any sweeper is fine really...

That whole Gastrodon idea is pretty fresh as well. I never really thought of that before...but running him instead of Swampy...we'll have to see about that.:pirate:
 
Just switch in another tricker, choicer or a sweeper that wouldn't miss out on it too much. Some sweepers can actually become pretty deadly with a scarf tricked onto them. Or, just use TTar for pursuit.
 
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