Sun / Moon In-Game Tier List

[LunaStik]

So, just to organize my thoughts since last tier change:

Changes with support:
Diglett: A -> B (frail despite typing, lacks strong STABs until late)

Changes with mixed support:
Zygarde-50: A -> B (efficiency primary argument for drop)
Zygarde-10: B -> C (frailty primary argument)

Both seem to have slightly mord support than negative support, but I wouldn't call it definitive.

Changes with little support:
Mimikyu: B -> A (Slightly more support; too strong for tier)
Legends: A -> B (Slightly more negative support, availability)
Grimer: A ->B? (More disapproval; poor midgame?)

Nominations with no discussion:
Fomantis: E -> D (Very strong Z-move nuke to handle an individual matchup)
Snorunt (Froslass): Untiered -> F (possible through pokepelago, but very inefficient)
Comfey: B -> E
Espeon: B -> A
Bruxish: E -> C
Fletching: A-> B
(All on IOS' post on page 13 regarding damage calcs)

These are all based off how I interpreted the different users posting, and I could be wrong in my interpretation.

Are Decidueye and Tsareena the two premier Grass-types? I'm planning my team right now and my OCD demands that my team has a fire/water/grass core, and I'm not sure if I want to pick Rowlett or not, I haven't heard things.
I'll either be going Decidueye/Pelipper/Salazzle or Primarina/Tsareena/Salazzle
I really don't like Tsareena's design, but she seems very good on paper.

It does appear so.

Bounsweet > Rowlet >>>>>> any other grass type (availabilty for most, with the main exception of Fomantis being pretty weak).

 

[Carrier]

Are Decidueye and Tsareena the two premier Grass-types? I'm planning my team right now and my OCD demands that my team has a fire/water/grass core, and I'm not sure if I want to pick Rowlett or not, I haven't heard things.
I'll either be going Decidueye/Pelipper/Salazzle or Primarina/Tsareena/Salazzle
I really don't like Tsareena's design, but she seems very good on paper.

If those aren't to your tastes, you have the options of Lilligant / Whimsicott, Shiinotic, Parasect, Leafeon, Fomantis, or Dhelmise and Exeggutor.

Dhelmise and Exeggutor are so late (4th island) that they're poor picks for your triangle.

Cottonee / Lilligant are the only first island grass types that aren't the starter, if that's important to you. However, both take the Sun Stone to evolve, which is quite a ways into the third island, barring Poke Pelago luck. Cottonee is also pool-noodle levels of weak with 27/37 offenses, really hurting its usefulness, whereas 70 special attack isn't bad for Petlil (and it has the grass moves to use it decently) until 110 sa Lilligant steps to the plate, but it will start to lag pretty bad around the middle of the second island, I'd reckon.

The rest are available virtually at the same time, at the start or about halfway through the second island

Of the later second islanders, Fomantis is marred by an iffy movepool and iffy stats, as well as a fairly late evolution. Leafeon has relatively weak STAB until late game, but is a bit undersold on the chart according to at least one post I remember.
Of the earlier ones, available right at the start of the first trial, Paras and Morelull lines are basically clones (both are 405 BST and evolve @24, one appearing at night and the other in the morning. Morelull is just Specialy Offensive Paras w/ a bit more special defense). Of the two, I'd say Paras so as to make use of the various (and surprising) list of TMs it can use. STAB 80 BP leech life off of 95 attack is also awesome.

 

[Lolpanther]

If Ash Greninja were obtainable for everyone, where would it be on the list? S-tier? I'm asking because I just got a Popplio via Wonder Trade and now I have to decide between Popplio and Greninja

 

[Sefk26]

Comments on a few nominations without comments:
1) Espeon: Espeon is strong but Physic is not a great type. You really want to evolve Eevee to Espeon before lvl 20 so that you can learn Psybeam, otherwise you are stuck with Confusion as your only STAB move until Ula'Ula. However, getting 220 friendship before lvl 20 is not a trivial feat. Not sure if it's really A material.
2) Bruxish barely makes it to D imo. I mean, Beldum is in D and one can get a lvl 2x Beldum on Mt. Hokulani, which can be evolved with one rare candy. Of course this might mean the Beldum is under ranked, but still between an okay pokemon that one can only find with 10% chance in rippling water, and a pseudo-legendary with a okay middle evolution, I pick the second without a second thought.

 

[Sefk26]

If Ash Greninja were obtainable for everyone, where would it be on the list? S-tier? I'm asking because I just got a Popplio via Wonder Trade and now I have to decide between Popplio and Greninja

S-tier without a question. You can reset for nature easily. It comes with max EV (and a good spread even). The moveset is amazing, meaning that it's pretty easy to transform in-game because you have a lot of tools to exploit the AI and secure the first kill.

You can only use it starting in the third island, but because it is a traded pokemon it levels up very quickly. I had to refrain from using it in-game so that I can still have some form of challenge.

Edit: Also, if you have a magnezone (why wouldn't you?), the duo forms an amazing volt-turn pair.

 

[Lolpanther]

S-tier without a question. You can reset for nature easily. It comes with max EV (and a good spread even). The moveset is amazing, meaning that it's pretty easy to transform in-game because you have a lot of tools to exploit the AI and secure the first kill.

You can only use it starting in the third island, but because it is a traded pokemon it levels up very quickly. I had to refrain from using it in-game so that I can still have some form of challenge.

Edit: Also, if you have a magnezone (why wouldn't you?), the duo forms an amazing volt-turn pair.

So I guess Ash Greninja is above Primarina in terms of viability? As for Magnezone, I'm torn between it and Metagross. Magnezone is much better in terms of utility but Metagross gets the style points. Both on 1 team would probably be steel-overkill

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

If those aren't to your tastes, you have the options of Lilligant / Whimsicott, Shiinotic, Parasect, Leafeon, Fomantis, or Dhelmise and Exeggutor.

Trevenant is also an option. You do get Phantump near the end of the 2nd island, but provided you trade, you get a fully evolved mon instantly. More efficient evolution than some of the other ones IMO. Unfortunately, its stuck having no Grass-type STAB till the end of the game minus TMs (of which I believe only Grass Knot is available during the time you get it, which makes use of its dreadful base 65 Special Attack).

 

[Sefk26]

So I guess Ash Greninja is above Primarina in terms of viability? As for Magnezone, I'm torn between it and Metagross. Magnezone is much better in terms of utility but Metagross gets the style points. Both on 1 team would probably be steel-overkill

Remember in X and Y, Korrina gives you a Lucario with its mega-stone, and how that reduced the rest of the game to "click close combat => watch things die"? Now imagine what it would be if the Lucario is 10 lvl about the rest of the team, have a boosted exp gain, and comes with an end-game moveset? Yeah, that.

Popplio is S-rank because it delivers a solid 8/10 or 9/10 for the entirety of the game. Whereas Greninja is a 11/10 the moment you get it. Since you are already in the middle of the game, might as well go for the 11/10.

As for Magnezone vs Metagross, you should instead think of it as Magneton + eviolite vs Metang + eviolite. I would favor Magneton + eviolite because it is faster while barely losing in bulk. In-game, outspeeding is more important than sheer bulk, because you don't want to be constantly running back to the poke-center because of accumulated damage.

 

[Xen]

Nominations with no discussion:
Fomantis: E -> D (Very strong Z-move nuke to handle an individual matchup)
Snorunt (Froslass): Untiered -> F (possible through pokepelago, but very inefficient)
Comfey: B -> E
Espeon: B -> A
Bruxish: E -> C
Fletching: A-> B

Though this is just theorymoning right now, although I do plan on using it during my playthrough once it becomes available, I cannot see any reason to justify putting Bruxish in C at all. Besides the fact that it comes pretty late and is locked behind an annoying fishing encounter (and you also need one with Strong Jaw), it literally struggles against every major battle left in the game (this definitely includes Hapu) with the exception of Hala and maybe Olivia and Totem Kommo-O. Pretty much anything it can't KO and has SE or strong STAB moves to use back at it will kill it due to its mediocre defenses. You may can argue for D since Psychic Fangs and Crunch do sting when backed by Strong Jaw, but it's probably better in E; it's definitely not C material at all.

Also, why throw Comfey down to E? I agree it's not B-worthy, but I think E is pretty harsh for it as well.

As for Snorunt, I think it's safe to put it in E or F. Don't forget Froslass isn't Snorunt's only evolution, though have fun babying it to lv 42 or trying to get the Dawn stone fron Poke Pelago.

Edit: Nvm, Glalie is already in E. In that case, yeah, throw Froslass in F.

 

[Karxrida]

@Cover Legends

How did BW Reshiram and Zekrom get ranked? Solgaleo and Lunala cannot be lower than them because there's a bit more actual game left for them to put in work.

E or F is way too low. I'd say C is better indicative of how they're not useless, but don't contribute that much due to how late they are.

 

[R_N]

@Cover Legends

How did BW Reshiram and Zekrom get ranked? Solgaleo and Lunala cannot be lower than them because there's a bit more actual game left for them to put in work.

E or F is way too low. I'd say C is better indicative how they're not useless, but don't contribute that much due to how late they are.

It doesn't look like we had a BW1 tier list (we had like a thousand RBY tiers though...).

For reference, Yveltal & Xerneas both got B rank while it seems like Kyogre & Groudon got A rank.

 

[Xen]

We do have a BW1 tier list on-site, but iirc, Reshiram/Zekrom weren't ranked on it since revealing how they're encountered would've been a big spoiler to the stories.

Either way, they're kinda like Solgaleo/Lunalla in the sense that they're good, but come at a point where there are like, 2-3 trainers left in the game.

 

[LunaStik]

Continuing this: Dialga and Pakia are A rank in DPP.

I didn't take part in the discussion for XY, but I do remember in my X game that Xerneas did not roll through the E4 as well as legendaries did in past games, so I can agree with the lower tiers for them.

Ultimately, the big debate with the legends seems to be more along the lines of their lack of contribution to nonmajor battles as compared to previous legends, as they do contribute to the same number of major battles as most legends in past gens (looking at hgss lugia/ho-oh breaking the streak). In terms of these major battles, they do steamroll on the level of Kyogre/Groudon, so I don't think we can demerit them in terms of major battles. So, how important is the lack of a Victort Road (HGSS also lacked this iirc, but E4 was only halfway through the game.)

 

[Paddywagon Man]

Are Decidueye and Tsareena the two premier Grass-types? I'm planning my team right now and my OCD demands that my team has a fire/water/grass core, and I'm not sure if I want to pick Rowlett or not, I haven't heard things.
I'll either be going Decidueye/Pelipper/Salazzle or Primarina/Tsareena/Salazzle
I really don't like Tsareena's design, but she seems very good on paper.

Leafeon is also surprisingly good, but maybe not quite as good as Tsareena. Faster and evolves earlier, doesn't hit quite as hard, but ridiculously physically bulky. I'm tempted to say "Paras", but Parasect is really more of a Bug type than a Grass type so I don't think that should count.

I guess your other options are Trevenant (needs a trade to evolve, but quite decent), Bellsprout (Probably pretty good based on past experience, but requires QR scan), and Fomantis (evolves late, and is basically flat-out worse than any of the others). So yeah, the best options are probably Tsareena, Leafeon and Rowlet.

 

[Sefk26]

I didn't take part in the discussion for XY, but I do remember in my X game that Xerneas did not roll through the E4 as well as legendaries did in past games, so I can agree with the lower tiers for them.

One possible explanation: Xerneas and Yveltal are actually a little under-leveled compared to the player's team at that point, assuming exp-share. Thus they are actually overshadowed by a random pokemon on a reasonability well-built team. Xerneas also have poor typing against 2 of the E4 and the champion. I mean even Zygarde 50 in SM looks better than this.

 

[Its_A_Random]

One possible explanation: Xerneas and Yveltal are actually a little under-leveled compared to the player's team at that point, assuming exp-share. Thus they are actually overshadowed by a random pokemon on a reasonability well-built team. Xerneas also have poor typing against 2 of the E4 and the champion.

If you are doing an efficient run and you are running Exp. Share, you are not fighting every trainer you can find and skipping most, generally only going back to them to say, level up a recent catch to the rest of the party (with share off ofc). That said, by the time you are fighting Xerneas/Yveltal in X/Y doing an efficient run with Exp. Share, you are generally going to be in your late 40's at best from my experience, so Xerneas/Yveltal are not going to be overleveled. They also have overall good matchups against all the remaining mandatory fights, major or otherwise, Yveltal less so however.

But that's nitpicking and this isn't the XY tier list.

 

[Big_Isaac]

Is the egg you receive from the nursery on island 2 always an Eevee?
'cause if so then getting Espeon, Umbreon and Leafeon is really easy, although part of the following trick might be considered an exploit.

1 directly south of the nursery is a small fenced in area (as in maybe 2 m²). Get in there
2 hop unto Tauros, hit dash and circle the circle pad. You're basically a hamster in a wheel, and the dash counts for a lot of steps
3 keep it up for 5-ish minutes
4 egg hatched
5 give Eevee the soothe bell and repeat another 5-ish minutes
6 get level 2 Espeon

 

[hypno28]

Yeah, it's always an Eevee.

 

[Giratina93]

Is the egg you receive from the nursery on island 2 always an Eevee?
'cause if so then getting Espeon, Umbreon and Leafeon is really easy, although part of the following trick might be considered an exploit.

1 directly south of the nursery is a small fenced in area (as in maybe 2 m²). Get in there
2 hop unto Tauros, hit dash and circle the circle pad. You're basically a hamster in a wheel, and the dash counts for a lot of steps
3 keep it up for 5-ish minutes
4 egg hatched
5 give Eevee the soothe bell and repeat another 5-ish minutes
6 get level 2 Espeon

That's still ten minutes down the drain that you could be spending on something else, like actual game progress or leveling a different mon in the same area up, though it's not as bad as X and Y Sylveon. Neither Espeon or Umbreon have all that favorable a matchup against the next two totems or Gladion (No, Espeon struggles against Totem Salazzle due to how hard it hits and the special defense buff), and being so hideously underleveled means even MORE time babying it to catch up with the rest of the team, plus Leafeon showing up AFTER the one fight it's guaranteed to have an easy time against (because Olivia and later Hapu are jerks who hit HAAAAAARD), and the Eeveelutions in general are just... not the best choices for the game, especially from the egg. I'd rather grab a natural eevee and level it up than go with the egg.

 

[LunaStik]

That's still ten minutes down the drain that you could be spending on something else, like actual game progress or leveling a different mon in the same area up, though it's not as bad as X and Y Sylveon. Neither Espeon or Umbreon have all that favorable a matchup against the next two totems or Gladion (No, Espeon struggles against Totem Salazzle due to how hard it hits and the special defense buff), and being so hideously underleveled means even MORE time babying it to catch up with the rest of the team, plus Leafeon showing up AFTER the one fight it's guaranteed to have an easy time against (because Olivia and later Hapu are jerks who hit HAAAAAARD), and the Eeveelutions in general are just... not the best choices for the game, especially from the egg. I'd rather grab a natural eevee and level it up than go with the egg.

In Umbreon's and Espeon's cases, there is also the inherent disadvantage of time based evolutions: unless if you are really good at planning, you may have to wait 6+ hours to get the one you want. Is it difficult? No, but it can be very inefficient to your run if you are slightly off on your estimate(same reason that I am arguing about Zygarde-50 dropping).

 

[Carrier]

Leafeon showing up AFTER the one fight it's guaranteed to have an easy time against (because Olivia and later Hapu are jerks

Can't you get Leafeon during the second trial on Akala? Granted, you're stuck using Razor Leaf and TMs, but still. I thought Hapu was like 4th island late battle wise, and Olivia is end of second island, right?

 

[LunaStik]

Can't you get Leafeon during the second trial on Akala? Granted, you're stuck using Razor Leaf and TMs, but still. I thought Hapu was like 4th island late battle wise, and Olivia is end of second island, right?

Actually, you can get Leafeon before Wishiwashi by backtracking to the ferry and then to Verdant Cavern, then walking all the way back. You just don't have Charizard ride yet, so it is a very long walk and inefficient. (This word keeps popping up lately)

 

[Giratina93]

Actually, you can get Leafeon before Wishiwashi by backtracking to the ferry and then to Verdant Cavern, then walking all the way back. You just don't have Charizard ride yet, so it is a very long walk and inefficient. (This word keeps popping up lately)

No, the stone needed for Leafeon is in Lush Jungle, so you can't get it until the fourth trial, since you can't enter until you beat the other two trials on the island. And let's face it, Leafeon has a miserable time against Lurantis.

 

[Carrier]

No, the stone needed for Leafeon is in Lush Jungle, so you can't get it until the fourth trial, since you can't enter until you beat the other two trials on the island. And let's face it, Leafeon has a miserable time against Lurantis.

In fairness, everything has a miserable time against Lurantis.

 

[R_N]

That's still ten minutes down the drain that you could be spending on something else, like actual game progress or leveling a different mon in the same area up, though it's not as bad as X and Y Sylveon. Neither Espeon or Umbreon have all that favorable a matchup against the next two totems or Gladion (No, Espeon struggles against Totem Salazzle due to how hard it hits and the special defense buff), and being so hideously underleveled means even MORE time babying it to catch up with the rest of the team, plus Leafeon showing up AFTER the one fight it's guaranteed to have an easy time against (because Olivia and later Hapu are jerks who hit HAAAAAARD), and the Eeveelutions in general are just... not the best choices for the game, especially from the egg. I'd rather grab a natural eevee and level it up than go with the egg.

hey 10 minuets down the drain aint terrible considering its a happiness evolution. yeah its like 10-15 minutes you could be doing with something else but that's better than it was in prior games so I don't think it's worth too much of a hit to their use as much as match up issues

man do i have recollection of riolu arguments in BW2