SPOILERS! Sun / Moon In-Game Tier List

In fairness, everything has a miserable time against Lurantis.
Oops, I got conufused because of early DPP which I just replayed.

And a fire type is not as miserable against Lurantis, but that's a little specific. And given how few good fire types there are early. (Only exception I can think of is Litten. Good luck with the other starters, considering Cubone evolved barely too late in my first playthrough where I did a bunch of inefficient grinding and Salandit's frailty. Going to try Grimer next playthrough though.)

hey 10 minuets down the drain aint terrible considering its a happiness evolution. yeah its like 10-15 minutes you could be doing with something else but that's better than it was in prior games so I don't think it's worth too much of a hit to their use as much as match up issues

man do i have recollection of riolu arguments in BW2
The difference is Espeon/Umbreon is time dependent. If you get to evolve at the wrong time of day, you are waiting hours to get the one you want, especially if your team is better with the other evolution.

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hey 10 minuets down the drain aint terrible considering its a happiness evolution. yeah its like 10-15 minutes you could be doing with something else but that's better than it was in prior games so I don't think it's worth too much of a hit to their use as much as match up issues

man do i have recollection of riolu arguments in BW2
The 10 minutes in and of itself isn't the problem.It's combined with the fact that the eevee from the egg is lv. 1, so you got some grinding to do for it on top of those ten minutes. As I said before, I'd rather grab an ordinary Eevee and use that rather than the egg you get.
 

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Why not just catch a wild Eevee with a Luxury ball? You can get plenty of balls to spare during your Melemele run.

I mean, sure it probably won't evolve next level, but it should be a quick enough evolution. That seems far more preferable than putting your game on halt to baby a lv 1 Pokemon
 
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The 10 minutes in and of itself isn't the problem.It's combined with the fact that the eevee from the egg is lv. 1, so you got some grinding to do for it on top of those ten minutes. As I said before, I'd rather grab an ordinary Eevee and use that rather than the egg you get.
Actually, couldn't you just EXP Share and let it sit in the back seat for a while? I mean, considering how Magikarp is S tier and it's the king of babyied pokemon, I'd say that needing to be carried for a few levels isn't much an issue (and you're like lv12 when you get that egg I mean it's not much of a hassle lol)
Honestly, how bad a time you have against Lurantis depends almost entirely on what it SOS calls.

By which I mean if Castform shows up, you're pretty boned.
Aren't the SOS Chains predetermined for Totems? I thought everyone got Wishiwashi then Alomoloma / Trumbeak then Castform for the 2 trials on Akala, respectively.
 
Hello, I am still new to the game and I currently have Torracat, Magneton and Gyarados in my party. Which two pokemon would be the best additions to round my party up?
 
I want to add to the pile who thinks that Charjabug holds its own until evolution. Especially with eviolite which it has little competition for once your Pokémon are evolved. It was the only reason I beat totem Lurantis and put in work in other battles too.
 
The 10 minutes in and of itself isn't the problem.It's combined with the fact that the eevee from the egg is lv. 1, so you got some grinding to do for it on top of those ten minutes. As I said before, I'd rather grab an ordinary Eevee and use that rather than the egg you get.
We're assuming exp share is on, so getting a level 1 up to speed isn't going to take long, especially since you're most likely only around level 20 at this point in the game.

Plus, you get a mon with 130 S.ATK out of it, which can hold its own just fine even when it's a few levels behind.
Plus plus, Eevee is a miserable 5% encounter in grass, so if you're trying to get it normally, you can kiss about 15 minutes goodbye anyways.
Plus plus plus, getting Eevee via egg makes it significantly easier to evolve it before level 17/20 for Swift/Psybeam, since the hatched Eevee starts with 50 more happiness than normal, and you get 13-16 extra levels for levelup happiness

In all, I went with the egg during my current run, and it took about 20 minutes from getting the egg to evolving the Eevee into Espeon.
 
I had alomoloma first twice and same for Casform, so I don't think it is fixed.
It is fixed, but it is dependent on the current HP of the totem pokemon. If the totem has more than half of its HP at the end of the first turn, it will summon, in the case of Lurantis, Trumbeak first, but if it has less than half at the end of the first turn, it summons Castform.
 
Aren't the SOS Chains predetermined for Totems? I thought everyone got Wishiwashi then Alomoloma / Trumbeak then Castform for the 2 trials on Akala, respectively.
I just know that the first time I fought Lurantis it summoned a Castform and kicked my ass, the second time it summoned a Trumbeak and I wiped the floor with it.
 

I'd say that Mudbray, and in turn, Mudsdale deserve S rank. While I haven't had multiple runs through the game, my first and only one was with Mudsdale, and it's a beast. Not only can you get it fairly early on in the game, as early as Route 4, but its stats are great throughout the entire game, Stamina is awesome for longer battles, and its movepool, while bad in a competitive scene, is all it needs ingame. Bulldoze + Rock Tomb 2HKOs most Pokemon early on and later when you get Haigh Horsepower and Heavy Slam, it can take on the later totems very well, and with its great bulk + Stamina, it can really take plenty of hits to make up for its lackluster speed. Evolving at level 30 is also earlier than any starter and the stat increase is giant, letting you have a very strong and bulky monster as you are still going against lower to mid level Pokemon when this thing reaches level 30. It has a great type combination with the starters, with Decidueye being the one I chose. Decidueye takes out Grass and Water types, Incineroar takes out Ice and Grass types, and Primarina can tank Water and Ice moves, plus with Mudsdale, you have a strong tank to take on most of their weaknesses, like Dark and Fire for Decidueye, Ground, Rock and Fighting for Incineroar, and Electric and Poison for Primarina. Yeah, those bring you bigger weaknesses to things like Ice, Water and and Grass, but those aren't really hard to find resistances for.

In the Elite Four, this thing is a life saver, for Hala, it can take on Primeape, Bewear and Hariyama(with potions), besides Poliwrath and Crabominable, which you can beat with either Decidueye/Primarina or a simple strong attacker. For Olivia, all you need is something to kill Relicanth and then you just solo the rest of her team due to her having 0 super effective coverage and Stamina boosts throughout the battle. Acerola is probably the most difficult E4 member to face with Mudsdale, but it certainly is possible, as you take on Sableye, Drifblim and Palossand while leaving Froslass and Dhelmise to teammates. Kahili, despite the type disadvantage, can take her on pretty well, with Skarmory being a pain but the rest of them just being Mudsdale bait, at least with Rock Tomb/Heavy Slam. Finally, Mudsdale can take on 4 out of 6 members on Kukui's team, depending on which starter you picked, since it walls Lycanroc, takes on Braviary, walls Magnezone, takes on Snorlax with Superpower, and if you picked Rowlet, also Incineroar.

Maybe it's just because I just finished up and still have the contributions of what Mudsdale did on my team in my mind, but i definitely think Mudbray deserves High rank.
 
I'm in the middle of a run, but I came across something interesting and want to see if I was lucky. Can someone confirm if Totem Lurantis will only use Synthesis if sun is up/Castform is out? I actually managed to poison it to death because it concentrated on attacking me rather than heal.

It had no SE attacks to utilize, but had neutral hits.
 
I'm in the middle of a run, but I came across something interesting and want to see if I was lucky. Can someone confirm if Totem Lurantis will only use Synthesis if sun is up/Castform is out? I actually managed to poison it to death because it concentrated on attacking me rather than heal.

It had no SE attacks to utilize, but had neutral hits.
Haha, I wish. Physical Solarbeam spam on my end, coupled with Weather Ball from Castform. Pretty rough fight.
 
Haha, I wish. Physical Solarbeam spam on my end, coupled with Weather Ball from Castform. Pretty rough fight.
I said use it only if those are out. It had Trumbeak out, and I had nothing left to stop Lurantis but had poisoned it a while ago.

Basically asking if it would not if Trumbeak was summoned. Already knew it would spam those if Sun was out because I lost on my first run as a result.
 
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I second Mudbray going to S
High Horsepower + Rock Tomb has great coverage, plus it's a 1-ton pokemon that learns Heavy Slam meaning everything lighter than 200 kg (read: every fairy type) gets smashed with the full 120 BP

Also Espeon should go to A
It's a total one-trick pony (i.e. Psychic), but that trick just happens to be a minigun. It deserves S tier on its own, but it does require more effort to get than the other mons in S, so A should be fine.
It outspeeds the entire game and with 130 S.ATK STAB Psychic, there's nothing it can't 1 or 2HKO sans Steel/Psychic/Dark types
We have Dewpider in A for doing stupid amounts of damage with one specific type and Espeon fits that mold as well. For extra giggles, teach it hyper beam and give it the normal type Z crystal.
 
I said use it only if those are out. It had Trumbeak out, and I had nothing left to stop Lurantis but had poisoned it a while ago.

Basically asking if it would not if Trumbeak was summoned. Already knew it would spam those if Sun was out because I lost on my first run as a result.
Oh, sorry for misunderstanding.

On my run, IIRC it healed regardless; I remember specifically trying to go for the Lurantis kill instead of the followers after Alomomola made me think twice about the strategy of getting rid of the SOS 'mons so I'd have less trouble with the Totem. Figuring that I could take it slow, I tried Sonic-booming it. Instead of that happening in an easy win, it healed back up and started going to town on my team, so I targeted the Trumbeak, just to get another Wishiwashi all over again lol. I remember having to use resort to going -6 w/ Intimidate to reduce it being reasonably tanked, then using Gyarados to take it out.
 
Oh, sorry for misunderstanding.

On my run, IIRC it healed regardless; I remember specifically trying to go for the Lurantis kill instead of the followers after Alomomola made me think twice about the strategy of getting rid of the SOS 'mons so I'd have less trouble with the Totem. Figuring that I could take it slow, I tried Sonic-booming it. Instead of that happening in an easy win, it healed back up and started going to town on my team, so I targeted the Trumbeak, just to get another Wishiwashi all over again lol. I remember having to use resort to going -6 w/ Intimidate to reduce it being reasonably tanked, then using Gyarados to take it out.
I'm asking about Lurantis, which only summons Trumbeak and Castform.

Wishiwashi summons Wishiwashi or Alomola.

And I gathered to ignore summons when they were called every turn. I'd never be able to attack the totem if I kept trying to clear the weaklings (unless spread attacks).
 
I'm asking about Lurantis, which only summons Trumbeak and Castform.

Wishiwashi summons Wishiwashi or Alomola.

And I gathered to ignore summons when they were called every turn. I'd never be able to attack the totem if I kept trying to clear the weaklings (unless spread attacks).
I meant it was like Alomomola in the sense that clearing out the original SOS call makes the problem worse, not better. Trumbeak and Wishiwashi were FAR easier to manage than the other call, Castform / Alomomola.

And yeah, focusing seems the best form of action; it just doesn't seem so when it feels natural to clear the trash and then attack the boss.
 
Mudbray... oh boy. Mudbray is a... decent contender for S-rank seeing how it has a fairly good run... but I feel it works better in A due to how it fairs against most of the game's fights, Plus, if you don't get Stamina, you're gonna have a FUUUUN time.

Gladion: Slug fest between Mudbray and Type Null. Depending on your starter, Silvally can really ruin Mudsdale's day, but it should come out alright, albeit needing healing afterward. Sneasel/Weavile are non-issues, as is Crobat and Lucario
Totem Wishiwashi: NO
Totem Salazzle: If Bulldoze fails to OHKO, you're in trouble.
Totem Lurantis: RIP pony.
Plumeria: Zubat and Salandit are non-issues
Olivia: Lycabroc can hax you to death with bite, but that's it.
Nihilego: If this gives you problems, there's something wrong with your horse.
Hau: You are not soloing this fight, though the chance of surviving Raichu's Psychic and wrecking it back with a High Horsepower is always good.
Molayne: Skarmory walls you to death, but the other two are dead.
Totem Vikavolt: this could take a while, but you should edge out here.
Guzma: Golisopod used Razor Shell! round 3's Masquerain can hax you to death real easy.
Totem Mimikyu: Abandon hope, ye who enter here.
Team Skull: Mudsdale wrecks face here, but due to his speed is going to need some healing.
Nanu: Krokorok's Intimidate sucks, and Persian's also a bit of a pain.
Team Aether: Due to how varied the trainers here are, I don't think anyone has an easy time soloing them.
Lusamine: NO. Doubly so in round 2. Mudsdale has NO good matchups here.
Hapu: Bulk to bulk combat, but Gastrodon wrecks you, and getting paralyzed by Flygon SUCKS.
Elite 4: Hala is a mixed bag, especially Poliwrath and Crabominable. Olivia's okay on paper, but Relicanth can do a number to you and Lycanroc packs Counter. Acerola is NO, and Kahili is mostly doable, just watch out for Crobat's confusion and the fact you can't hurt Skarmory.
Kukui: Lycanroc dies, Snorlax is perfectly fine engaging in bulk to bulk combat with you, Ninetails murders you, Braviary dies, Magnezone dies, and 2 of the 3 starters wreck you.

In general, Mudbray has quite a few good matchups, but there's more than enough bad or iffy ones to keep it out of S-rank.
 
Been lurking awhile, figured it's time to make a post. I don't have a huge amount of experience with Pokemon, I've played Gen 1, 5 and this. That being said, I've completed the game 3 times with a few different setups and will weigh in on the discussion.

Pelipper/Wingull: While I agree that rain boosted scalds are very powerful, I don't think its movepool is diverse enough to warrant S tier. If we look at the other coverage this mon has, the only thing other than scald that you'll be using for a very long time is air cutter, which is a 60 bp special stab. It's also incredibly fragile as Wingull until level 25, and it doesn't get drizzle until then either.

Looking at some of the trials/grand trials:
  • Raticate/Gumshoos: Too fragile, neutral damage, pretty much useless.
  • Hala: It gets some stab attacks, but only physical when its stats are all in special. Also, still fragile and will get butchered by Hala's Z move. So pretty meh.
  • Wishiwashi: Useless.
  • Salazzle: You'll have a stab scald with a little bit of SpA, and will probably chunk it, but it might not OHKO it leaving you to promptly die.
  • Lurantis: By this stage you might have Pelipper, in which case you will fare much better than if Wingull is still present. Drizzle effectively neuters synthesis, but it still remains a problem. The real issue here is that your super effective stab gets its power neutered in turn because there are two targets and not one. This combined with the fact that it has 60 BP and Lurantis + the add hit you for neutral damage leaves you in a pretty bad situation all around. If you still have a Wingull, don't even bother. So basically; Wingull = useless, Pelipper = OK.
  • Olivia: You'll butcher her with rain boosted scalds, so Pelipper is good here.
  • Vikavolt: You'll get one shot; useless.
  • Mimikyu: Bad, you'll probably get OHKO'd or 2HKO'd, and your first attack will do 0 damage.
  • Nanu: Mixed bag, you'll smash Krokorok, the other two may hit you pretty hard and KO you.
  • Hapu: You'll pretty much destroy her entire team with Pelipper alone.
  • Kommo-o: Mixed bag, you'll dent it for sure, but it'll also dent you.
  • Late Game: It gets a 100% accuracy hurricane due to rain and rain boosted hydropumps. With 95 special attack, this is enough to shred a lot of things. That being said, by this time you'll have access to a variety of things that can also smash face.
I don't see how anyone's experience could have varied with this mon, using it on 2/3 of my runs I came to the same conclusion each time. If we're talking a one tier at a time, I'd say it goes S-->A. Primarina and Gyarados are much better options in my opinion. You could always build an ingame rain team, which is effective in its own right, though.

For the rest of my experience:
  • Popplio: Definitely belongs where it is due to typing, movepool and sheer power.
  • Grimer: I think it belongs where it is, the only thing holding it back from S tier is it's lackluster movepool before its late evolution at 38.
  • Magnemite: Belongs where it is for sure, high special, high resistances and even gets hidden power very early.
  • Mudsbray: Belongs where it is, as it walls a few otherwise deadly threats.
  • Zubat/Fletchling: Stab acrobatics is very powerful. If we're considering which of the two is better, I'd say Zubat due to a potentially very early evolution into Crobat at level 23 (if you do it right) and due to its ability to completely destroy Lurantis as Crobat with a stab boosted acrobatics. I think they both belong where they are, but I can't see why you'd want to use Talonflame over Crobat. They also both fall off lategame.
I think both Legendaries should go to from A-->B tier due to the fact that they're not available for anything except the elite 4, by which stage you should probably have a team capable of beating them anyways.
 
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I can't see why you'd want to use Crobat over Talonflame.
Better stats across the board, better defensive typing, Leech Life?

Obviously there are a few specific fights you'd want Talonflame's Fire typing for, but on the whole I think Crobat would be a much better choice. Its Poison typing only gives it 1 weakness (Psychic) thanks to Ground immunity, whereas Talonflame's Fire typing gives it a Water weakness and a 4x Rock weakness - and Water types are way more common than Psychic types. Crobat does decently well against Psychic types despite its weakness with high Speed and super effective moves like Leech Life - and the only major Psychic trainer in the game (Faba) packs two Water types, making Talonflame no more useful.

Not to mention that Eviolite Golbat is a pretty decent Pokemon in its own right, possibly better than Crobat.

I agree about them both falling off though. Still, Poison type is really very good.
 
Better stats across the board, better defensive typing, Leech Life?

Obviously there are a few specific fights you'd want Talonflame's Fire typing for, but on the whole I think Crobat would be a much better choice. Its Poison typing only gives it 1 weakness (Psychic) thanks to Ground immunity, whereas Talonflame's Fire typing gives it a Water weakness and a 4x Rock weakness - and Water types are way more common than Psychic types. Crobat does decently well against Psychic types despite its weakness with high Speed and super effective moves like Leech Life - and the only major Psychic trainer in the game (Faba) packs two Water types, making Talonflame no more useful.

Not to mention that Eviolite Golbat is a pretty decent Pokemon in its own right, possibly better than Crobat.

I agree about them both falling off though. Still, Poison type is really very good.
There's also the fact that thanks to Crobat's speed, giving it U-turn not only allows it to bop many psychic types for heavy damage, but also get out of dodge and swap into something else better equipped to handle those threats, said mons most likely appreciating the extra damage done by U-turn. While Talonflame can also do this, it's not quite as solid against the numerous water types, and unless your water answer has water absorb, it's going to be taking damage that will need to be potioned off, unlike Dark types who can switch into most psychic types for free. And the few fights were SR can come into play, Crobat's only getting brought down to 75% of its HP, compared to Talonflame, where it's cut in half and almost always needs to be healed instantly. Granted, Crobat would love to have access to its move tutor moves like Heat Wave, but it does well with better bulk compared to Talonflame's higher attack power and worse defenses and type matchup.
 
People tend to forget this, but Talonflame's base attack is actually really bad at 81. It's only 1 point ahead of Golbat, and 9 points behind Crobat. Since they will both be mostly using Acrobatics, Crobat actually has the better offensive power. Not to mention that for secondary STAB Talonflame has to rely on 50 BP Flame Charge while Crobat has 70 BP (with poison chance and high crit rate) Cross Poison.

EDIT - Once you get to the Pokemon League, Talonflame can get Brave Bird and Flare Blitz from the move relearner, putting it a bit ahead of Crobat offensively. Still, that isn't until the endgame, and both moves have a lot of recoil.

Talonflame could also use Fire Blast for secondary STAB but the bad accuracy means you'll be taking hits - something Talonflame is very bad at.
 
People tend to forget this, but Talonflame's base attack is actually really bad at 81. It's only 1 point ahead of Golbat, and 9 points behind Crobat. Since they will both be mostly using Acrobatics, Crobat actually has the better offensive power. Not to mention that for secondary STAB Talonflame has to rely on 50 BP Flame Charge while Crobat has 70 BP (with poison chance and high crit rate) Cross Poison.

EDIT - Once you get to the Pokemon League, Talonflame can get Brave Bird and Flare Blitz from the move relearner, putting it a bit ahead of Crobat offensively. Still, that isn't until the endgame, and both moves have a lot of recoil.

Talonflame could also use Fire Blast for secondary STAB but the bad accuracy means you'll be taking hits - something Talonflame is very bad at.
I wrote that backwards in my post, it was supposed to read "I don't understand why people would use Talonflame over Crobat".

If you read the rest of my post, I'm actually in support of Crobat, I just messed up that statement. Crobat is undeniably superior on an ingame playthrough due to its early evolution through friendship, early double stab and good stats. So we are definitely in agreement.

A point that I forgot to bring up in my post is Diglet. It's typing does yield itself a lot of resistances, but they're wasted on horrible bulk. I used it briefly and dropped it for Mudbray because I found that, even as Dugtrio, its 35/60/70 bulk greatly overshadows its 100 attack, 110 speed and resistances. Even resisted hits chunk its HP to a large extent. It also lacks a physical stab above 60 BP until level 35 (dig), so that's not exactly optimal either.

I think Diglet should go from A-->B tier.
 
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