Sun / Moon In-Game Tier List

I'm curious as to whether there are any specific moves people delayed evolution for (other than stone evolutions). Delaying Magnemite, Mudbray, and Stufful each 1 level (to learn Flash Cannon, Heavy Slam, and Take Down 2, 3, and 2 levels sooner respectively) seemed obvious to me, but did anyone delay longer than that for any moves?

Also, I can confirm that low level Salamence requires too much effort/luck to obtain but absolutely carries teams throughout much of the game if you're determined/lucky enough (including walling the much-loathed Lurantis battle).
 
Comments on the Pokémon I used on first playthrough.
tl;dr on tiering placements:
Popplio, S
Magnemite, S
Crabrawler, E; if able to be found more reliably, C
Eevee (Leafeon), up D -> C
Cubone, D
Sandile, B
Popplio -> Primarina (Lv. 49--I did my best to keep them all below Lv. 50 at Hall of Fame once I realized I could manage it)
Great Pokémon, especially in the early and late games. I can see why it's tiered S. Life as Brionne for me probably would've fared better if it had the Eviolite, but Acrobatics was too appealing of an option for me to just let go. Low Speed was also a problem, but it didn't bother me much.

------------------------------------------------------------
Magnemite -> Magnezone (Lv. 49 w/ Magnet Pull)
I think enough has been said about this 'mon. It's superb, and even without Sturdy it carried my team up more or less until I got Sandile, plus I enjoyed Magnet Pull's lead slot ability to grab some Steel-types since I had it.

------------------------------------------------------------
Crabrawler -> Crabominable (Lv. 48 w/ Hyper Cutter)
E tier b/c availability; C rank if not? If only there was a more consistent method to obtaining it, like a Berry Tree that was guaranteed to have one the first time that tree is checked (like the first few ORAS DexNav 'mons)...

I got mine right before Grand Trial Hala, so I wish I knew what it could've done at Ilima's trial. Convenient for me regardless, since Fightinium Z and the Brick Break TM come very soon to equip Crabarawler with for some powerful early to mid-game Fighting STAB that couldn't be dulled thanks to Hyper Cutter. It's very frail without Eviolite, but it can outspeed many threats and sweep with Bulk Up or Power-up Punch. Pretty bad against anything too fast, unfortunately, so I had to give it the Eviolite by Totem Mimikyu for it to do anything relevant on my team, which was to crush Normal and Dark-types or pick up a revenge K.O. I didn't see any difference in relative bulk between it and Crabominable because it was already endgame, where it being over seven Levels under did not effectively change how I responded to it taking damage.

Also, I don't know what was up with possessed Lusamine's Bewear. Seeing its HP get reduced for 5 turns in a row from Pain Split alone was both dumbfounding and a perfect opportunity for Crabrawler to boost up and sweep through everything left on Lusamine's team (and Bewear came in right after Clefable went down, too).

---------------------------------------------------------------
Eevee -> Leafeon (Lv. 46)
Move up to C tier. How does Umbreon perform in-game to get C-rank, by the way?

It may be a physical attacker, but the move I ended up using most on my Leafeon was Giga Drain, which did about the same if not more damage than Razor Leaf to most Pokémon in addition to the free HP restoration. I held on to both for pretty much the entire game since Razor Leaf still could be boosted by Swords Dance. The advantage Leafeon has over other Grass-types would be its swift Base 95 Speed, allowing it to effectively handle situations other Grass-types usually couldn't as well as be the fastest Pokémon on my team. Swords Dance + X Scissor was great against Grass and Dark-types, and Breakneck Blitz provided general coverage for anything else. Nature Power I didn't realize I skipped until after Hall of Fame, but I'm still curious to see what it could have provided, especially if used with Normalium Z. Having nothing for Steel-types is fixed by partners, yet I wish Leafeon still had Dig. OHKO potential is lackluster outside of type advantage, but its physical bulk usually allows for it to boost or 2HKO most Pokémon. There weren't any battles in particular that I could say Leafeon shined in--pretty much every 'mon on my team save for Marowak could take on Olivia--but I still needed it to Sand Attack my way through the Akala trials and to K.O. anything when teammates were easily outsped or weakened.

My overall experience with Leafeon was pretty decent to be honest, and while it was mediocre on its own, it still fit well as a fast Pokémon and usually picked up wins when I desperately needed it to.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Cubone -> Marowak (Lv. 48 w/ Cursed Body, w/o a Thick Club)
I agree with D rank. I'm not even sure if a Thick Club would be enough to raise Cubone to C.

Cubone was an odd team member. It's a great abuser of Z Power, and a generous amount of Cursed Body activations led Cubone to some very opportune moments for me to Swords Dance or heal teammates. It did relevantly little as a Cubone (being flinched to death by Olivia's Lycanroc botched a sweep, oh well), but it started to pick up as a Marowak in Ula'ula. Its most effective use by far was being able to run through most of Team Skull's Pokémon, save for Guzma and his Golisopod. After that, though, it fell off hard. The level cap was too much for it, but Cursed Body was still so good for my team.

It's not the coverage that hurts Marowak but the low Speed. Bonemerang was used almost solely for Salandit and some Electric and Fire-types. Swords Dance came in handy for the mid-game, but it lost favor unless I was prepared for certain opponents (I usually wasn't) due to my commitment to Special STAB. Shadow Ball surprisingly ended up being the go-to move of choice overall for consistent damage, and Fire Blast ended up outclassing Flame Charge because I still couldn't manage to outspeed a number of opponents after +2. Marowak's wide access to TMs usually amounted to options outperformed by other teammates. I switched back to physical STAB at the Pokémon League, but I didn't see much of a difference in fighting ability.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandile -> Krookodile (Lv. 49 w/ Intimidate)
Solid B tier. Similarly to what others stated about Mimikyu, Krookodile has A-tier potential if it was obtainable prior to the mid-late game.

This Pokémon ended up carrying the rest of my team when Magneton or Primarina weren't able to. It started with good Dual STAB, a nice selection of TMs, and immediate level-up evolution to Krokorok. Nice defensive typing and Intimidate meant it could beat many Pokémon. Add Bulk Up when needed and it could sweep important trainers, too, including Nanu, Hapu, Acerola, Kahili, and Faba (recommend an X Speed for Acerola's Froslass and Kahili's Oricorio). It does a good job clearing away Team Skull's Pokémon, too (except Guzma, of course). Crunch usually covered Krookodile's need for Dig as strong Ground STAB up until it had access to Tectonic Rage. It won't clear through everything, though, so it loses to anything with Fighting coverage or super-effective Special attacks.


Also, is finishing with a party of levels all in the low to mid-50s the average for Sun/Moon? I had the boosted EXP from Pokémon Refresh going and EXP Share turned off the entire time. I finished with a max level of 49, although by the Champion I had noticed their levels and purposefully tried to keep any of them from reaching Lv. 50 out of low-level pride. I can definitely see the likes of Popplio, Crabrawler, and Leafeon doing much better on a smaller party than on my full party team.
 
Just bought Pokemon Sun today after buying and beating Pokemon Moon a month ago

I bought Sun because I'm going to be using my Moon for end game content (competitive)

I'm going to be paying close attention to detail during my Sun in game run, contributing to this thread.

I rushed through Moon so I didn't get the full satisfying in game experience

In my Moon I picked Decidueye, it was good, but nothing special however (kind of like Sceptile in Emerald)

I'm considering starting my run with The Fire Cat, his design is awesome and he's a pretty bulky Pokemon...and overall that's what I want, I want to build a bulky, non frail Pokemon team

I'm also the type of Person who likes to take advantage of F/W/G cores

Any suggestions for water / grass Pokemon if I start out with Litten?

I'm thinking Incineroar / Gyarados / Tsareena

However I don't want to be too biased on Physical attackers...
 
Last edited:
Just bought Pokemon Sun today after buying and beating Pokemon Moon a month ago

I bought Sun because I'm going to be using my Moon for end game content (competitive)

I'm going to be paying close attention to detail during my Sun in game run, contributing to this thread.

I rushed through Moon so I didn't get the full satisfying in game experience

In my Moon I picked Decidueye, it was good, but nothing special however (kind of like Sceptile in Emerald)

I'm considering starting my run with The Fire Cat, his design is awesome and he's a pretty bulky Pokemon...and overall that's what I want, I want to build a bulky, non frail Pokemon team

I'm also the type of Person who likes to take advantage of F/W/G cores

Any suggestions for water / grass Pokemon if I start out with Litten?

I'm thinking Incineroar / Gyarados / Tsareena

However I don't want to be too biased on Physical attackers...
This is also a problem I encountered and why I chose Popplio as my starter. There's a good group of strong pokemon in the game, but they're mostly physical attackers. You could try Starmie as an alternative to Gyarados, but it comes after the fire trial, so that might be an issue. Vaporeon is also a pretty solid option, but it also comes after the fire trial. Then again, all you need to do for the fire trial is find Mudbray and it's pretty much over. Between Starmie and Vaporeon, I'd choose the later (personally) because it gets scald and a 65 BP ice special attack in aurora beam very early on.

There really isn't a good alternative to Tsareena for a grass pokemon. You could try a petal dance own tempo Lilligant, but its evolution comes really late due to a lack of a sun stone and it doesn't get petal dance until level 46. It therefore needs to be babysat through most of the playthrough. Additionally, its coverage is pretty bad, consisting of only grass moves.
 
Last edited:
Comments on the Pokémon I used on first playthrough.
tl;dr on tiering placements:
Popplio, S
Magnemite, S
Crabrawler, E; if able to be found more reliably, C
Eevee (Leafeon), up D -> C
Cubone, D
Sandile, B
.
Did you have a lot of trouble finding a crabrawler? I don't know about others but i kept finding the things every other berry tree. was kind of annoying, actually.
i certainly wouldn't tank it to E rank at least. I swear the thing isn't that rare, certainly not on the level of its fishing & SOS friends
 
There really isn't a good alternative to Tsareena for a grass pokemon. You could try a petal dance own tempo Lilligant, but its evolution comes really late due to a lack of a sun stone and it doesn't get petal dance until level 46. It therefore needs to be babysat through most of the playthrough. Additionally, its coverage is pretty bad, consisting of only grass moves.
Petilil/Lilligant is a Moon exclusive.

I feel like I'm repeating myself a bit here (somebody else was looking for a Grass type too) but Leafeon has excellent stats - its movepool isn't the best, but on the whole it was a very solid mon. Paras is ok, but lacks a good Grass attack for much of the game - it's really more of a Bug type. Fomantis is pretty bad, Cottonee is awful, and Dhelmise is way too late. Chikorita is your earliest opportunity for a Grass type and is alright, but takes QR scan and is a bit underwhelming offensively.

Morelull is surprisingly good, actually. Early evolution, STAB draining moves and a very useful type in Fairy - too bad it comes after the water trial. It's also special if that helps your decision. Bellsprout is also very good but requires QR scan and suffers from bad moves for a while.

But yeah, there are definitely alternatives to Tsareena - Leafeon, Morelull, and Bellsprout. Tsareena is probably the best of the four, but it isn't like it's the only option.
 
Petilil/Lilligant is a Moon exclusive.

I feel like I'm repeating myself a bit here (somebody else was looking for a Grass type too) but Leafeon has excellent stats - its movepool isn't the best, but on the whole it was a very solid mon. Paras is ok, but lacks a good Grass attack for much of the game - it's really more of a Bug type. Fomantis is pretty bad, Cottonee is awful, and Dhelmise is way too late. Chikorita is your earliest opportunity for a Grass type and is alright, but takes QR scan and is a bit underwhelming offensively.

Morelull is surprisingly good, actually. Early evolution, STAB draining moves and a very useful type in Fairy - too bad it comes after the water trial. It's also special if that helps your decision. Bellsprout is also very good but requires QR scan and suffers from bad moves for a while.

But yeah, there are definitely alternatives to Tsareena - Leafeon, Morelull, and Bellsprout. Tsareena is probably the best of the four, but it isn't like it's the only option.
Yes, that's right, Lilligant is a moon exclusive, whoops.

Leafeon isn't that great in my opinion. It only has a 55 BP razor leaf as a physical based grass stab until it reaches level 45 when it learns leaf blade. Its movepool is also as barren as it gets. Leafeon is a physical attacker too, not that this matters much, but the OP was looking for special attack alternatives I think.

Bellsprout is an interesting option if you don't mind using QR scans. Honestly, I think the QR scan mons should be tiered, it takes like 5 minutes to scan 10 QR codes and find said mon in the wild. Plus you can just save before you initiate the QR scan in the area where the mon spawns, and you can easily find one with a good ability/nature like this.
 
Last edited:
I think QR scan pokemon should be tiered. It doesn´t take long to get those pokemon at all, and they learn special egg-moves too (except klink).

I haven't used all of them, so I'm just speculating here, but considering my experience with most of these pokemon in previous games I think I can at least predict in what their tier they should be (roughly) until someone can confirm or deny it by actually using them.


Totodile gets metal claw, which is pretty much useless safe from the rare fairy here and there. Feraligatr isn't bad, but Gyarados is a thing so I guess C or B tier.

Deino gets assurance, which is decent early on. It evolves way to late to be worth using, so E tier it is, I guess.

Horsea gets dragon breath, which is a decent move in the early game, but it falls of rather quickly. If you don't get a dragon scale as held item, you can't evolve it at all. Eviolite seadra isn't terrible either, but you can only get a dragon scale from wild dragonair, which is only available in the very late game. Kindra is very strong once you get it, but since it is so much of a hassle to get, I would put it in D tier.

klink doesn't get any special move, which is sad because it's movepool is so bad anyway. It's basically the only early steel type next to magnemite though, and steel is a very good in-game typing, plus it's stats when evolved are nice. Then again, it evolves incredibly late, so I don't think it's really worth using, especially because you can get magnemite so early. D tier.

Chicorita was blessed with leech seed, which is an amazing move for harder battles. It also learns razor leaf early on, so it's amazing against the first two totems (leech seed raticate/alomomola and start spamming your spread razor leaf. ggez) . It gets reflect too which greatly helps against literally all the kahuna's, Hau (depending on your starter), mimickyu, and in the rare double battle. Its offenses or lackluster (leech seed helps with this), but it's bulk and support are amazing. Basically, it's not very efficient, like, it can't get OHKO, but it still gets shit done, so I'm tempted to put it in B or even A tier.

Litwick gets acid, which is really meh. Litwick itself has the same problem as Deino and klink, it just evolves way too late to be worth using. It's very strong once it's a chandelure, but at that point there is not much left for it to destroy. so yeah, D tier.

Cyndaquil gets double kick, which a decent early game move. Too bad you can't get it before Ilima's trial though. Anyway, cyndaquil is a fairly reliable, straightforward fire type. It's stats are nice, but it's movepool is disappointing. It's stats want thyplosion to be a special attacker, but it's movepool forces it to go mixed. I would say that arcanine is better, but thyplosion is still pretty decent so B tier.

Spheal gets aqua ring, which might be situationally useful but not really. They best I can say about spheal is that it's like the only early game ice type, but that's not really an asset to be honest. It evolves really late, and there are better water types available, so D or C tier.

Luxio gets eerie impulse, which can be useful at times. Luxray evolves a biiit late, but it's a very reliable electric type with good stats and a decent movepool. Due to it's consistency, I would put it in B tier.

Honedge gets destiny bond. I might be fun to use against Mimickyu, but other than that it's not really good. Honedge itself is much better, even though it evolves fairly late. You need a dusk stone to evolve it fully, but eviolite doublade is good enough to get it through mid-game to get to the point where you get a dusk stone. It's movepool and typing are amazing so I think B or A tier suit it.

Venipede gets toxic spikes, which can be very useful against Lusamine and the elite four and such. Scolipede is a very strong and very fast bug type. It can OHKO a lot of things with stab Megahorn and its good tm compatibility. It's great against lusamine, nanu and Hau. I also evolves fairly early at level 30, so would say that it deserves A or B tier.

Bellsprout gets acid spray, which is actually a decent stab move until you get sludge bomb. The bellsprout family learns sleep power, which is always nice to have. After putting the oppenent to sleep, Victreebel can pummel the opponent with its strong stab attacks. It's really strong, and the leaf stone doesn't even come that late, so I would put it in A or B tier.

Marill gets aqua jet. That is S tier material right there. It's typing and ability are obviously phenomenal, and aqua jet solves its low speed somewhat. It has a decent movepool and solid bulk across the board. Really I would put this in A or even S.

Gothita gets dark pulse, which is decent I guess. Gothitelle is fairly good, but you can get better psychic types early on, like alakazam. It has decent stats and a decent movepool, but just like tototdile, there's little reason to use it. C or B tier.


There are more island scan pokemon on ula'ula and Poni island, but those generally come too late. Swinub, Roselia and Staravia are decent options that you can get on Ula'ula, so if you really want those, the option is there.
 
Did you have a lot of trouble finding a crabrawler? I don't know about others but i kept finding the things every other berry tree. was kind of annoying, actually.
i certainly wouldn't tank it to E rank at least. I swear the thing isn't that rare, certainly not on the level of its fishing & SOS friends
The Berry Tree on Route 3 was when I found and caught my Crabrawler, so pretty much just before I was ready for my Grand Trial with Hala. After that, I found Crabrawler about once every three or four Berry Tree checks, so I'd say it was an uncommon sight for me.

I figured that Crabrawler's current placement of E reflected on its lack of guaranteed availability rather than the number of times you're likely to find one. I'll definitely push for C (maybe B) tier, though, if others in general feel confident they can catch one regularly at MeleMele Island or early on at Akala Island.

---------------------------

The page about Berry Trees on Serebii lists Crabrawler encounter rarities for each Tree, but I don't trust it fully. Apparently, my brother immediately found a Crabrawler in the Berry Fields tree (and initially thought it was a scripted encounter, too--I can't blame him) even though the Serebii page says its encounter rate is "Never."
 
Hello, I am still new to the game and I currently have Torracat, Magneton and Gyarados in my party. Which two pokemon would be the best additions to round my party up?
A Grass-type to complete a Fire/Water/Grass core would be great, Tsareena is probably the best option. If you are looking for a special attacker and are playing Moon, then Lilligant is also an option.

I would also recommend picking up a Dark-type, it is one of the best offensive types for the game (letting you hit Psychic and Ghost-types safely). Alolan Muk and Krookodile are your best options.

Third, I would recommend Ribombee, I've been using it in my playthrough and it is a savage. (People say it gets weaker late-game though.)



Just bought Pokemon Sun today after buying and beating Pokemon Moon a month ago

I bought Sun because I'm going to be using my Moon for end game content (competitive)

I'm going to be paying close attention to detail during my Sun in game run, contributing to this thread.

I rushed through Moon so I didn't get the full satisfying in game experience

In my Moon I picked Decidueye, it was good, but nothing special however (kind of like Sceptile in Emerald)

I'm considering starting my run with The Fire Cat, his design is awesome and he's a pretty bulky Pokemon...and overall that's what I want, I want to build a bulky, non frail Pokemon team

I'm also the type of Person who likes to take advantage of F/W/G cores

Any suggestions for water / grass Pokemon if I start out with Litten?

I'm thinking Incineroar / Gyarados / Tsareena

However I don't want to be too biased on Physical attackers...
Incineroar / Gyarados / Tsareena is probably one of the strongest F/W/G cores in the game, if you are worried about being too biased to physical attackers then consider swapping Gyarados for Pelipper, Starmie, or Wishiwashi.

Tsareena and Lilligant (moon) seem to be the two supreme Grass-types available, and would be great for a bulky offense core. Tsareena has the craziest movepool in the game, I would use the fuck out of it if I didn't hate its design.
 
Morelull & Paras are available on your trip to wishiwashi, incidentally.
Whoops, missed that. It makes them both that much better - Paras could solo the water trial with Dry Skin.

I didn't use Morelull in my playthrough, but I'm starting to wish I had! Good bulk, ability, and movepool. 90 special attack isn't incredible, but quite workable. and Big Root gives it a lot of mileage out of Giga Drain and Leech Seed.
 
Tsareena and Lilligant (moon) seem to be the two supreme Grass-types available, and would be great for a bulky offense core. Tsareena has the craziest movepool in the game, I would use the fuck out of it if I didn't hate its design.
Uh, I guess that's true. If you consider Grass STAB with Fighting coverage "crazy", at least.
It certainly has the edge over Lurantis in stats, but I feel the latter has the edge in movepool. Leaf Blade + Leech Life + Brick Break + Arial Ace is definitely more than I'm used to from a non-starter pure grass mon.
I'm using one right now (with Araquanid (sp?) and Incineroar (sp again?) as the F/G/W core). The baby-phase is rough, but manageable with exp share, and it's been very good since its evolution
 
Crabrawler in C... I am sorry, but I have to disagree. Crabrawler isn't E material, but I do feel it works best in D. This thing... my god, this thing...



Crabrawler for D rank


Availability:
On paper, you can find Crabrawler in the first berry tree you come across, and any others on all four islands... In practice, it's even more tedious to find than many rare fishing mons, because there's only a low chance of a berry tree having one there, and you gotta wait a day or so before it respawns. This means you have to be pretty lucky to find one on the first island, and camping for it is highly inefficient.

Stats: For a (potentially) early game mon, Crabrawler has pretty good stats. 82 attack and 63 speed are more than solid for the first island, but begin to falter by the third island. It's bulk is also sub-par, and while an Eviolite helps, you're going to be stuck with it for a LOOOONG time. As Crabominable, it gets even slower, but hits like a dump truck. Alas, this is horribly offset by...

Typing: Pure fighting is alright. Crabrawler packs a few decent resistances and a few annoying weaknesses, but it works... until Crabominable ruins everything by becoming Ice/Fighting, making it weak to a lot more stuff, and thanks to that slow speed and frailty, it WILL be hurting before it can fire off a hit.

Movepool: Crabrawler comes packing with Rock Smash, which if you got Iron Fist, is quite nice. Brick Break out the gate in the first trial makes Crabrawler pretty good... for the first trial, then things just start hating it. Lack of priority hurts, though it gets nice coverage in Crabhammer and Stone Edge and a few somewhat decent dark moves. As Crabominable, Ice Punch is solid, as is Ice Hammer from move tutor... too bad both of those are at the end of the game.

Major Battles:

Totem Normal: Raticate gets one-shot. Gumshoos MIGHT live a hit and call for help before dying.
Hau: Pikachu is going to be hitting you hard with Electroball, and as a Raichu, don't even bother. Eeveelutions are also trouble due to their bulk, and until you get Crabhammer, even the fire starter is going to give you trouble
Hala: Crabrawler is going down before it can get through all three mons, especially Hala's own Crabrawler.
Gladion: Zubat is NO, Type Null is doable, but Crabrawler is going to be hurting, Sneasel is doable, and Lucario... be careful. Silvally's type change hurts Crabrawler more than helps it out, and it won't be enjoying the pain.
Totem Wishiwashi: NO
Totem Salazzle: NO
Totem Lurantis: NO
Plumeria: NO
Olivia: Okay, this is doable, but if Nosepass paralyzes you, you're going to have a bad time. Also, Boldore lowering your accuracy sucks.
Molayne: Only Dugtrio is doable. The others are NO.
Totem Vikavolt: Crabrawler is not breaking through this by himself, and Spark hurts too much.
Guzma: Golisopod's gonna make the initial cut, which kills the crab instantly. Later on, Masquerain singly handedly ruins any attempt to solo Guzma.
Totem Mimikyu: NO
Team Skull: Crabrawler does... okay here, but any Golbats and Haunters are dangerous to deal with.
Nanu: On paper, this is Crabrawler's fight. In practice, you do squat to Sableye, Krokorok cripples your attack and nukes you hard with EQ, and Persian... You CAN beat it with Crabrawler, but only if Crabrawler's healthy.
Team Aether: Psychic types galore= dead crab. Most everything else tends to be too bulky for Crabrawler to reliably handle.
Lusamine: Not a single good matchup here. All her mons rip the crab apart.
Hapu: If the previous fights didn't cement how bad Crabrawler's bulk and offenses had become, this fight will. Crabrawler can only break through Dugtrio, and that's after taking heavy damage. Everything else is NO.
Totem Kommo-o: RIP crab, outbulked and outmuscled again.
Elite 4: Finally, Crabominable gets to take center stage... and proceed to suck horribly. Hala obliterates you, Kahili obliterates you, and you are not soloing either Olivia or Acerola (Though Crabominable does get to wreck Passoland and a few of Olivia's mons one on one.)
Kukui: Crabominable's only good matchups arguably are Snorlax, Decidueye, and Lycanroc, All of which hit you hard anyways. Otherwise, Braviary nukes you, Magnezone nukes you, Ninetails nukes you, and two of the three starters nuke you.

Additional comments: Crabrawler's biggest crippling weakness is the fact its evolution is locked right at the gates of the Elite 4. If you could access it before that point, arguably around the middle of the third island when you do pass by there, I could see it rising up to C or even B rank with the sheer firepower it gets, but because of the Mount Lanikaka evolution requirements, it's only really good at the start of the game... and then just keeps faltering and stumbling into limbo, and by the time it finally evolves, it's too late to salvage.
 

MZ

Ban all DLC
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Top Team Rater Alumnus
PU Leader
Just got through another playthrough, and other than the absurdly high diglett-a I think the best underrated thing I used was Nosepass. I get that E sounds fine on paper because you can't evolve for an absurdly long time but this thing should definitely be up in C rank, next to bonsly (early but poor), aerodactyl (late but good) and tirtouga (middling and alright but outclassed), rather than the mediocre and late boldore/relicanth. I'd push for B if the evo was before Aether Paradise and Poni Wilds and it's still better than a lot of C but oh well that's the small price to pay for this killing machine.

Availability: Most common thing in akala outskirts other than the far too common wingull/gumshoos (although that's a topic for things you dislike), and at that point you already have Eviolite so it can go straight into your party.
Stats: It'll start feeling weak by Aether Paradise and Poni Wilds but you'll still get some use out of it then thanks to the typing to beat random mons anyway, and Probopass is no slouch everywhere but Speed. Works just fine really.
Typing: Exactly what you'd expect, doesn't like water/grass/ground/fighting and beats everything else just fine because it has balk
Movepool: Power Gem and Twave are solid early game staples and you dont need much else. Earth Power comes a bit later, Flash Cannon/Toxic in Aether Paradise/Seafolk Village, and other random TMs like Dazzling Gleam and Volt Switch if you want.
Major Battles: I'm doing this off of memory, might forget something or have stuff in the wrong order but the point stands.
Does well vs: Walls Olivia just fine if you're willing to take the time to beat her slowly, completely dicks totem Vikavolt, all you need to beat everything Guzma has except Golisopod, has slow volt switch to bust mimikyu's disguise for whatever you want to come in, beats everything gladion has except for the lucario in the last battle, beats everything Plumeria has pre-title defense battle, walls Nanu's persian and sableye, handles Lusamine's mismagius first time and mismag/clefable second time now that you're evolved, beats half of Olivia's and Acerola's e4 team, completely destroys Kahili other than Bone Rush Mandibuzz, beats 4/6 of Kukui's team just falling to snorlax and starter
Does poorly vs: Only beats hau's eeveelution/starter depending on what starter you have, doesn't help vs faba's water types, totem kommo-o hits this, dies vs hapu/hala
Additional Comments: Sturdy. Literally any fight you might not be too useful in you can still do work. I used it vs totem Kommo-O to get off a free Dazzling Gleam which didn't kill but tacked on some nice damage, I used it to get off a toxic on a ton of things (you can toxic stall anything for free as long as you have the potions) including kukui's Primarina when I had nothing else for it, it's just generally a really stupid tool that you can abuse all the time. Anything with Z moves is a lot less scary with sturdy, it's not even dead weight in the bad matchups like you get a free Dgleam vs Hala etc. It's also perfect vs most regular trainers, it simply abuses its defensive typing as much as it wants vs a ton of stuff. Oh and it makes team skull even easier w/poison and bug types everywhere.
 
Just got through another playthrough, and other than the absurdly high diglett-a I think the best underrated thing I used was Nosepass. I get that E sounds fine on paper because you can't evolve for an absurdly long time but this thing should definitely be up in C rank, next to bonsly (early but poor), aerodactyl (late but good) and tirtouga (middling and alright but outclassed), rather than the mediocre and late boldore/relicanth. I'd push for B if the evo was before Aether Paradise and Poni Wilds and it's still better than a lot of C but oh well that's the small price to pay for this killing machine.

Availability: Most common thing in akala outskirts other than the far too common wingull/gumshoos (although that's a topic for things you dislike), and at that point you already have Eviolite so it can go straight into your party.
Stats: It'll start feeling weak by Aether Paradise and Poni Wilds but you'll still get some use out of it then thanks to the typing to beat random mons anyway, and Probopass is no slouch everywhere but Speed. Works just fine really.
Typing: Exactly what you'd expect, doesn't like water/grass/ground/fighting and beats everything else just fine because it has balk
Movepool: Power Gem and Twave are solid early game staples and you dont need much else. Earth Power comes a bit later, Flash Cannon/Toxic in Aether Paradise/Seafolk Village, and other random TMs like Dazzling Gleam and Volt Switch if you want.
Major Battles: I'm doing this off of memory, might forget something or have stuff in the wrong order but the point stands.
Does well vs: Walls Olivia just fine if you're willing to take the time to beat her slowly, completely dicks totem Vikavolt, all you need to beat everything Guzma has except Golisopod, has slow volt switch to bust mimikyu's disguise for whatever you want to come in, beats everything gladion has except for the lucario in the last battle, beats everything Plumeria has pre-title defense battle, walls Nanu's persian and sableye, handles Lusamine's mismagius first time and mismag/clefable second time now that you're evolved, beats half of Olivia's and Acerola's e4 team, completely destroys Kahili other than Bone Rush Mandibuzz, beats 4/6 of Kukui's team just falling to snorlax and starter
Does poorly vs: Only beats hau's eeveelution/starter depending on what starter you have, doesn't help vs faba's water types, totem kommo-o hits this, dies vs hapu/hala
Additional Comments: Sturdy. Literally any fight you might not be too useful in you can still do work. I used it vs totem Kommo-O to get off a free Dazzling Gleam which didn't kill but tacked on some nice damage, I used it to get off a toxic on a ton of things (you can toxic stall anything for free as long as you have the potions) including kukui's Primarina when I had nothing else for it, it's just generally a really stupid tool that you can abuse all the time. Anything with Z moves is a lot less scary with sturdy, it's not even dead weight in the bad matchups like you get a free Dgleam vs Hala etc. It's also perfect vs most regular trainers, it simply abuses its defensive typing as much as it wants vs a ton of stuff. Oh and it makes team skull even easier w/poison and bug types everywhere.
The main problem with Nosepass in C rank is the fact it's not efficient to use. It hits like a limp noodle, so you're tickling the enemy mons to death in a process that can be done far faster and with less potions with other mons. There's a reason other stall mons like Blissey are down in the bottom tiers despite having somewhat solid defenses... and that's the fact that they hit like limp noodles and are forced to stall out the opponent in a process that wastes time and money. Why waste ten or more minutes stalling out Olivia when another mon can just smash through her team in less than two? These rankings are based on how efficient the mons are, and Nosepass... is NOT efficient, not in any sense of the word.
 

MZ

Ban all DLC
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Top Team Rater Alumnus
PU Leader
Ok, I definitely could've been better in clarifying how it isn't a limp noodle, since I sorta neglected that point. You have to stall olivia sure, but most of the battles you're using it in conveniently hate rock types, be it totem vikavolt, plumeria's salazzle, or all of the random trainers with oricorio/golbat/fletchinder/idek just list more things weak to rock here. It can beat plenty of things without relying on stalling, stalling with sturdy+toxic or lots of potions is simply an added benefit that you can abuse if you so choose. If you dont then just keep it in reserve for those good matchups, which come way more frequently than you'd expect
 
Ok, I definitely could've been better in clarifying how it isn't a limp noodle, since I sorta neglected that point. You have to stall olivia sure, but most of the battles you're using it in conveniently hate rock types, be it totem vikavolt, plumeria's salazzle, or all of the random trainers with oricorio/golbat/fletchinder/idek just list more things weak to rock here. It can beat plenty of things without relying on stalling, stalling with sturdy+toxic or lots of potions is simply an added benefit that you can abuse if you so choose. If you dont then just keep it in reserve for those good matchups, which come way more frequently than you'd expect
To be honest, I did notice that a lot of the stuff in the game is weak to rock. Or at least, it seemed that there was an abundance of flying pokemon. I think that one of the things that works against Nosepass is that you get rock tomb very early on, followed by rock slide a bit later, then stone edge late game. There's a wide range of pokemon that can learn these moves as coverage that don't have the abundant weaknesses that rock pokemon do (like A-Muk). Though I don't think C tier is the right place for it, I think D tier might fit it better than E.
 
Side Note; Am I missing something here? How come people say Crabrawler has a low chance of popping up in a berry tree?

In my Moon, he pops up all the time for me, maybe it's a coincidence?

Anywho, in my Sun play through I will be giving these a run and give my honest input on them as well as how they do in the Trials / E4

Inceniroar
Gyarados
Tsreena
Goodra
Espeon
Magnezone / Vikavolt (kind of torn TBH)
 
Gonna share my thoughts on team members that I used for any non-insignificant amount of time in my no-EXP share no-Z move playthrough.

Ledyba to E

Availability:
Route 1 during Daytime. You practically have to go out of your way to miss this mon as well, being pretty common.

Typing: Bug/Flying is somewhat good for the first island, especially the Hala fight, but it drops off in utility immediately after that. The typing lets you cheese Totem Lurantis, so it's not all bad.

Stats: Good Special Defense at the point in the game you get it, and is also pretty fast, ESPECIALLY for the part of the game where you get it. However its physical bulk and attack are kinda bad, and these qualities are only accentuated when it evolves.

Movepool: Gets Swift at level 8 and the screens at level 12. Both of these are really useful early-game, i.e. the part of the game where Ledyba is not a burden. Gets Acrobatics via TM, and Silver Wind before it loses usefulness. However, until you hit level 8, you'll be stuck with the extremely weak Tackle and the unreliable Supersonic to deal damage.

Major Battles:

Hau 2: Can go toe-to-toe with Pichu thanks to Swift and its high SpDef, as well as not caring about Charm. Litten is a NO, Popplio is kinda ok, and Rowlet is ok, but you're better off using your own starter for these guys.

Ilima: If you're at level 10, you can actually do significant damage to Yungoos before going down, since you outspeed and 4HKO with Swift while Yungoos 3HKOes back. You get outsped and finished off by Smeargle regardless of which starter you picked, however.

Totem Gumshoos: You can set up Reflect for a teammate since you outspeed. If you last past turn 2, you can get some damage off with Swift, which is great because it ignores Sand-Attack.

Totem Raticate: A bit less useful than against Gumshoos, since the Rattata spawns have Focus Energy to ignore your Reflect.

Hala: Mankey is an annoyance since it outspeeds you and Pursuit 3HKOes without screens while your Swift is a 5HKO. However, you completely shut down Makuhita thanks to Sand-Attack being a non-issue and Arm Thrust does nothing to you. You can also try to take on Crabrawler with Reflect, and speed tie it if you're level 15. However, even if you go down, simply by using Reflect you've made things way easier for your teammates. See a pattern?

Totem Wishiwashi: You've probably evolved if you've kept it this long. You also now have Silver Wind. Light Screen means that you can actually take on Wishiwashi and do heavy damage (Silver wind will do at least 1/6 of its health while Water Gun in Light Screen does less than a quarter of yours). If you have Hidden Power Grass or Electric, you can potentially 4HKO. The SOS Wishiwashi summons are annoying, but you can do a lot to the school.

Totem Salazzle: NO.

Totem Lurantis: Believe it or not, Ledian is something that can (sometimes) solo this monstrosity! Acrobatics has a solid chance to 2HKO Lurantis, while Lurantis itself can do absolutely nothing. Solar Blade is barely a 3HKO, while its Castform summons are outsped by Ledian (you actually want Castform summons here) while they need to set up Sunny Day to do anything back. Unless Lurantis uses Synthesis on both turns 2 and 3, Ledian wins this.

Everything after Totem Lurantis: NO. Ledian is past its point of usefulness by then, and can be boxed after Totem Lurantis.

Additional comments: Ledyba is a good filler for an early-game team while waiting for some later island Pokemon to show up. With a good early-game (and the ability to cheese Totem Lurantis), and an awful everything else, it deserves E rank.

Magnemite in S
It's like BW2 all over again!

Litten in B
Litten kinda fell off in usefulness for me, being the lowest-levelled team member for a significant part of the game. Nevertheless it has its strong points and it definitely deserves B.

Oricorio in C
Has a phenomenal BST for the time when you get it, and good STAB is simply part of being a bird. However I felt it falling slightly behind for me and eventually dropped it for Zygarde. Still, being able to wreck most everything between Totem Normal and Olivia deserves its own merits.

Abra (Trade) in A
The reasoning for this is simple: If you trade a level 16 Kadabra, it should learn Confusion, and by that point you have a 500 BST monster that outspeeds and kills near everything. However, if it doesn't learn confusion, you're still stuck with a 500 BST sandbag that's weak to Pursuit.

Abra (No trade) in C
Yes Kadabra is still very good. However you don't get an attack until level 21, you have to be babied for a long amount of time. Also you have only 410 BST and are frailer than Salazzle.

Slowpoke(Slowbro) in C
Burdened by a bad early-game and a late evolution. There's not much else to say here.

Zygarde-50 in A
I didn't have to go that much out of my way for this. I got it a bit before Po town and from then on, it was the best contributor to my team. Dragon Dance lets you win many long fights like the Elite Four and Kukui. Yes it's a late arrival, but it can pull its weight instantly from then on.

Wingull in S
By the time Wing Attack seems to be dropping off in damage, you've learned Air Cutter. At the time Air Cutter seems to be not as useful anymore, you've evolved. Everything comes at just the right time for this mon. The Scald TM, its evolution right near Totem Lurantis, etc.
 
Last edited:
The only thing where I'd say you can assume a toxic stalling strategy to be used is Pyukumuku. And that's only because it's the only reliable way it can damage opposing mons (although this is highly inefficient and clearly F rank material, Pyukumuku is pretty good at it).

Also, if you end up getting lucky with drops and encounters, certain Pokémon will perform above their tier.
 
Side Note; Am I missing something here? How come people say Crabrawler has a low chance of popping up in a berry tree?

In my Moon, he pops up all the time for me, maybe it's a coincidence?
It popped up about 10% of the time for me in Moon (and took several days to show up for the first time) but about 80% of the time in Sun.
 
It popped up about 10% of the time for me in Moon (and took several days to show up for the first time) but about 80% of the time in Sun.
For me it's the other way around. I'm playing moon and I annoyingly encounter it like 2/3 of the time, at the very least. Like, let me just pick up my berries.

Maybe it depends on the day/night cycle or something. I mostly play in the late afternoon, so I usually play at daytime in the game.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top