sun with 2 t

sun with 2 t
(team name change because im narcissistic k)


I've never really made a weather team. I never really wanted to. My style of playing was always stall, and it always will be. But stall this generation has definitely declined in usability because of the increasing number of threats. My best stall team could not get passed 1445; that's when I knew that I had to use a weather. Honestly, I am no big fan of being hated by others for using a "cheap" weather like Tyranitar and Politoed, so I decided to go with sun. Always flashy. Completely underestimated.


I don't want to bore you with the innumerable variations which I have gone through with explanation. Here is the team as it stands with previous pokemon shown:

The Team

Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Protect
- Roar

The best special wall for any sun team. One of Heatran's 3 weaknesses, Water, is extinguished by the Sun. This means that a Specs Surf from Latios deals about 21% to it.

  • Stealth Rock really helps against other weathers and making Flying pokemon so much easier to counter.

  • Lava Plume is not only strong in the sun, it also provides a good chance of burning a pokemon on the switch. Burning Tyranitar is a great feeling.

  • Protect is great against choiced pokemon who think they will outread me. It helps with giving Heatran its own mini-recovery and deals extra burn damage to the opponent at the same time.

  • Roar is great against Calm Mind sweepers and simply when predicting an opponents switch for more Stealth rock damage.

Lilligant (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 64 SDef / 192 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Synthesis
- Healing Wish

The chlorophyll "abuser" for this team. Nothing else could match its 110 SpAtk. with its amazing out of sun Speed. Great revenge killer and keeps the opposing weather out.

  • Leaf Storm hits very hard, dealing hard damage even to those who resist it.

  • Hidden Power Ice is for revenging on Dragon Dancers and genies. Fun to hit predicted Celebis as well. HP Fire is a decent replacement, hitting steels for good amounts.

  • Synthesis is needed to heal off Life Orb damage in the case of a stall situation.

  • Healing Wish pretty much gives Infernape 2 times to sweep. At the end of the game, many teams can not take Infernape twice.

Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 8 Atk / 248 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Grass Knot
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Overheat / Flamethrower

Sun sweeper for this team. Amazing type coverage and STAB which pretty much covers the entire metagame. In the endgame, I pull off sweeps just by hitting everything for super effective.

  • Grass Knot is for those pokemon who think they are solid counters to Infernape. It deals great damage to Hippowdon as well.

  • Close Combat is for hitting special walls which would otherwise end the sweep.

  • Overheat is a very strong STAB fire move which hits extremely hard on any switchin. I dislike the accuracy on this so I try to refrain from using it.

  • Hidden Power [Ice] for flying types and dragons.

Ninetales (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 84 HP / 148 SAtk / 100 SDef / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Protect
- Fire Blast
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hidden Power [Ground]

I mean other than Drought, this thing does nothing.​

  • Will-o-Wisp is good for burning things on the switch.

  • Fire Blast is pretty much here so that Ninetales can switch in on opponents weak to fire. I guess it hits decently hard.

  • Hidden Power [Ground] is for hitting Tyranitar and Heatran.

  • Protect so that you can predict the moves of any choicers like Politoed and make moves accordingly.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 16 SAtk / 16 SDef/ 224 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Thunderbolt
- Scald

The missing link to my team. Provides a switchin to Politoed and rapid spin support on most rock setters, bar Ferrothorn. Natural cure makes it a good candidate for taking status.

  • Recover is necessary to keep Starmie in top shape to Rapid Spin.

  • Rapid Spin is to get rid of hazards, unless you want to use it as an attack, which I'm completely fine with.

  • Thunderbolt is good for hitting waters and hoping for a lucky paralysis.

  • Scald burns pokemon on the switch, dealing damage which Starmie could not deal otherwise.

Tangrowth (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed

Fantastic physical wall. Wall everything from band Fighting attacks to physical sweepers.

  • Sleep Powder is really good for injuring the opponents team. Any 1 pokemon asleep on the opponents team could ruin their synergy.

  • Giga Drain is when Tangrowth is taking strong physical attacks, and it needs a method of recovery without having to switch out.

  • Hidden Power [Fire] is for hitting Scizor and Celebi on the switch (very common). Also deals with Excadrill better.

  • Leech Seed is for steels on the switch if I've used my sleep powder already. It also helps with bulky sweepers as well.


In all honesty, I can make rain teams and sand teams which could outdo this team by far. However, this team was altogether a fun experience and I doubt I could make it any better.

(things I have to revenge or cannot kill)

Reuniclus (CM) - Try to put it to sleep. and then spam fire attacks! and leaf storm! hope it doesn't wake up!
Latias(CM)- Gotta burn it. And then hope! Keep it roared out until its the last poke, then leech seed.
Salamence - Revenged by Lilligant.
Starmie - In the rain this is a behemoth. Best bet is to put sun immediately on rain.
Tornadus - Hurricane + Hammer Arm sets have to be revenged by Lilligant.
Tyranitar - Nothing hurts this team more than pursuiting Starmie + hazards.
Venusaur - Special sets are walled by Heatran. Mixed sets + Life Orb revenged by Lilligant. Other sets = lose.
Nidoking - Revenged by Starmie / Lilligant/ Ninetales / Infernape.
Dragonite - Mixed variants with Fire Blast are troublesome and are revenged by Lilligant.

Dugtrio - Traps half my team.

It looks like maybe your formatting needs some tweaks?

This is a cool sun team, and I have never gotten mine past 100, so clearly you know what you're doing. The only thing, when I think about how i would try to handle this with my rain team, I see me spamming voltswitch or thunder, because nothing on your team looks like it would deal particularly well with STAB electric attacks. Other then that I see very little to nitpick about.

You know I have often had a mind block for a better rapid spinner then Donphan / Forretress / Hitmontop, on a sun team. I was tempted to use Starmie but was afraid it would not work, but seeing your rating you have convinced me to give it a go.
For those who want to try this team, it is very hard to use. Many will not have as much success.

@MCramez -I have no idea how to format this :[ and this team hates volt switch. I really don't know how I win!

@ScarfWynaut - Starmie is a great spinner for sun. I like to spin right on the people setting the hazard, and Starmie can do that on everyone but Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn is bait for sun weather though. It can even spin on Jirachi because it can take body slams and use natural cure for the paralysis. I might try different EVs though... I'm not exactly an EV expert, but it doesn't take specs Surfs as I would like it to.
just quickly pointing out that you said that water was one of heatran's 2 weaknesses.
Heatran has 3 weaknesses; water, ground, fighting
Thanks flashdriveds.

If anybody can give me suggestions on what I could do to improve this team (which it really needs) , please tell me :)

I was thinking Life Orb Dugtrio to get rid of heatran, revenge genies, infernape, terrakion, tyranitar, and predict choiced Volt Switches. It seems awful frail though.
Are you by any chance Battlebot on PO? This team looks so familiar, especially with the Espeon I recommended to him and the Starmie he ended up using. If you are Battlebot, then here's my rate. :)

Why not use Venusaur over Tangrowth? It's coverage isn't as horrible as you think. It also gives you an offensive presence with that nice defense and ability to manhandle Rotom-W. You can set up all over it and Giga Drain will help alleviate LO and burn damage from Will-o-wisp. Sludge Bomb also gets good neutral coverage. If you want, you can even use Earthquake for Heatran or Sleep Powder in the last slot. tbh, I've found Venusaur to be superior to Tangrowth in most situations. Also, why are you using Regeneration? :p
Well Ive always preferred venusaur over lilligant, but Lilligant is definitely the superior revenge killer, having 110 Base Spatk and access to leaf storm.

If you come up with a good venu set which can replace it, I'd love to use venu :)
I'd actually suggest Venusaur over Tangrowth. Tangrowth doesn't seem to be doing much for your team as of right now. You lose a ground resist, but you have Lilligant with Synthesis in the sun so that shouldn't be much of an issue. Venusaur also gives you a good boosting sweeper which this team seems to be lacking. The set I'm describing is below.

(Venusaur) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Giga Drain
- Growth
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Earthquake
- Sludge Bomb

It's probably one of the greatest sun sweepers out there since it's not so easily revenge killed and it isn't frail either so finding time to set up shouldn't be much of an issue.

Also, you didn't answer my question. :p
ok. This would open my team to DD scrafty. Also I'd lose a good switch in on Landorus.

though replacing lilligant, it just cant hit as strong or heal infernape. I like stuff to have recovery, so I'd have to put synthesis on it D:
Lilligants leaf storms hit hard on both opposing weathers while Giga drain doesn't seem to do as much.
I'll try it though! with Earthquake.

edit: I think lilli is still better. I'm going for HP Ice permanently I think. I have to test it more, see if I struggle with scizor.
Anybody have an idea on how to solve my threats ? Usually I have to rely on revenging with Ice moves.


The Enterpriser.
is a Tiering Contributor
I run a sunny day team myself, and would like to say that the pokemon you picked are not the best in my opinion.

Pokemon You Need:
1.) Venasaur @ Black Sludge
Nature: Modest/Timid
Effort Values: 252 Sp.Attack/252 Speed/4 Hp
Ability: (DW) Chlorophyl

~ Sleep Powder/Growth
~ Sludge Bomb
~ Hidden Power (Fire/Ice)
~ Energy ball

(SleepPowder is very useful, but limited by sleep clauses. Growth SHARPLY raises stats, but you need to make sure you can endure the hit from your opponent, or if you predict a switch. Hidden Power is preference. Fire gains STAB from the Sun and provides coverage (and beats Ferrothorn) while a Ice takes down OU dragons. Vena outspeeds most with over 500 speed in the sun. Energy Ball provides STAB)

Replace Tangelgrowth for Vena

I would replace Starmie/Lilligrant/Tangelgrowth for (Venasaur/Volcarona/Latias (or any wall) )

To lazy 2 post other 2 pokemon (sorry)

Team gets a 6/10
needs some work
Lilligant with Sleep Powder would function much better. She doesn't need Synthesis, believe me.
Cripple or kill one with Leaf Storm, put the second to sleep and switch out. Leave her revenging or sleeping until Healing Wish is needed and she's done her job brilliantly. Also, I hope you're using her as most common lead, especially against weather. Her Leaf Storm OHKOs TyraToeds all day. This may very well define the success or failure of your team.

For Tales, you seem disappointed with it. So why not give it a job instead of just setting up Sun?

Ninetales (M) @ Chesto Berry

Trait: Drought

EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Overheat

- Rest

Now it reliably switches into Politoed and the Latis to set up Sun, cripples Tyranitar, attacks for the maximum power in the short time it'll be staying and phases stuff away(Smashpass included), while lasting much longer. You lose the ability to revenge Excadrill, that's true. But playing your cards right will see you not needing to.

Now you can redo your Heatran which, honestly, should be attacking instead of sponging. I recommend a Air Balloon/Flame Charge set, this thing can clean up unprepared teams like there's no tomorrow.

As for Starmie, if she's there to counter Rain, you might as well go for Thunder instead of Thunderbolt and know paralysis will happen, instead of just wishing for it. Psychic over Ice Beam for Conkeldurr who, otherwise, rapes you hard. But I fear that Donphan does Starmie's job better in this case, since it can also set up Rocks. Your call here.

For Apollo's sake, lose Tangrowth. Lilligant should be putting stuff to sleep and Venusaur sweeps better. Instead, look for something with priority, which seems to be your greatest weakness. I'd advise it on Infernape over Grass Knot, but you might not want it although I don't see Grass Knot being used here. Maybe Scizor, since it gives you scouting properties as well, and you only have one physical sweeper. Perhaps, one of the reasons for you not laddering well is Blissey/Chansey as well, now that I think of it.

So, let's see about your list of threats:

Reuniclus - Put it to sleep with Lilligant, Roar away with Tales, (?)U-Turn with Scizor(?)
Salamence - HP Ice with Lilligant, Dragon Pulse/HP Ice with Heatran while floating or Infernape if it didn't DD
Sigilyph - Set up Rocks, Block Psycho Shift, Overheat and Roar with Tales
Starmie - Leaf Storm with Lilligant, (?)U-Turn with Scizor under Sun(?)
Thundurus - At the risk of T.Wave, HP Ice with Lilligant
Tornadus - HP Ice with Lilligant, Thunder(bolt) with Starmie
Tyranitar - Leaf Storm with Lilligant, Close Combat or (?)priority with Infernape, Scizor(?)
Venusaur - Put to sleep or HP Ice with Lilligant, Overheat with Tales if not mixed
Politoed - Leaf Storm with Lilligant, switch-in Tales
Nidoking - Leaf Storm with Lilligant, Overheat with Infernape, (?)Fire Blast with Heatran while floating(?)

Gorebyss - Roar with Tales, outspeed and Leaf Storm/put to sleep with Lilligant
Dragonite - HP Ice/put to sleep with Lilligant, (?)Dragon
Pulse/HP Ice with Heatran(?), HP Ice with Infernape
Dugtrio - Don't expose Tales, revenge with Lilligant or floating Heatran


Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
The idea being tossed around is that sun teams have trouble with dragon type pokemon due to the lack of abusers with ice attacks outside of hidden power ice. That is simply not the case. When it boils down to it, sun simply does not need ice attacks to deal with dragons. With stealth rock support alone, Nasty Plot Infernape ohkos every single OU dragon with just fire blast (also worth noting in that he gets rid of Gyarados, and manages to score the ohko on Rotom-W without any hazard support at all whatsoever). Fire blast can also dispose of jellicient after SR damage while sunlight prevails, so I'm not even sure if you need grass knot (handles quagsire though). I would honestly get rid of hp ice for nasty plot go the route of a mixed NPNape instead, with Close Combat mainly for tyranitar and blissey.

It's not just Infernape. Venusaur himself has no reason to run hp ice either when all of the dragons will lose to +2 sludge bomb after hazard support.

Looking over this team, it seems to lack the raw offense that sun teams are usually known for. I was wondering why you had Sigilyph in your threats list, a pokemon who loses to things like Darmanitan and Infernape after it gets to +1/+1 with cosmic power. Reuniclus too, when it normally shouldn't be able to find the time to setup.

As far as landorus goes, there aren't many safe switch ins to the guy to begin with. The pokemon who normally resist the stone quake combo are not things that I would reccommend using. The most viable pokemon I'd tell you to use that cares very little for Landorus is Skarmory. I'm not sure who you would replace but he handles DD Scrafty and works as an excellent lure for pokemon such as Rotom-W (who fails to bother sun teams at all). DD Mixmence is also good but you don't outspeed the choiced variants.
People are pretty much screaming venusaur and I've tried it out to no success :(
People always weather change on him, and he can't really revenge like my team needs to. Running him beside Lilligant as a replacement for Tangrowth seems like an awesome idea, but then I have no place to go for Sandstorm threats when Sun isn't up.

I like Ninetales and I'd love for it to be Sp Defensive, but I would just hate missing out on revenging Jolly Lucario and Excadrill.

Skarmory does not really handle its threats, since it cannot really kill them.

I'll be testing some of these changes on my sun alt account so be on the lookout :)
you said in the starmie description that you use ice beam for lucky freezes on ferrothorn, but freeze hax cant happen in sun.
Well usually Ferrothorn is only a problem for me on Rain teams :|
I will try out the Venusaur Earthquake set because I really need some EQ user.

edit: venusaur banned with giga drain -.-


Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
I'm wondering the same thing. Tangrowth can handle Excadrill, but if he's holding you back then Gliscor is an excellent option. As is a balloon terrakion, who threatens most of the sand team threats and can actually set up on Excadrill. Balloon Lucario too.
No I mean I need something to switch in to Excadrill in the sand.
Tangrowth also handles Terrakion well.
No I mean I need something to switch in to Excadrill in the sand.
Tangrowth also handles Terrakion well.
I don't see how, its 2HKOed by Jolly Scarf Terrakion's Close Combat, and everything else on your team is OHKOed by it, so I'd suggest replacing Tangrowth with standard Gliscor, particularly as I don't think Tangrowth is doing that much for you anyway.

Aside from that, great team.
Rackham- i hope your calculator isnt malfunctioning, because scarf terrakions close combat does 20-30% to Tangrowth.

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