Super Smash Bros 4 (Spoilers ITT)

Jimbo said:
I broke down and got the game... I'm nowhere near competitive levels. Trying out random characters is fun though. Robin seems fun! I don't really get how to use Shulk though (monado arts??)
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As Shulk is my 2nd main, I'll delve deeper into the Arts:

Jump: Increases jumping ability, but also makes it easier to be knocked back. Good at early-mid % after using Buster.
Speed: Increases walking and running Speed as well as horizontal air movement. Decreases damage output and jumping ability. Good to use at high % if Shield has been used up.
Shield: increases Shulk's shield and KB resistance, but decreases walking and running speed, aerial movement, and damage output. Best to use at high %.
Buster: increases damage output, but decreases knockback. Best used when the opponent is at low %. Tilts are more effective than Smashes due to the decreased KB (more combo ability)
Smash: Increases knockback, but lowers damage output. Also lowers Shulk's KB resistance. Best used when the opponent is at high damage and you're at relatively low damage.
 
Prince Phantom said:
Ive got those and the 1000 KOs left. Who did you guys beat intensity 9 classic with? For me it was bowser.
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everyone

but my first was with luigi

e: also on the topic of Shulk, i tried so hard to use him well, since he's very fun to play as and has a cool sword, but he's a poor character to use against other players. he broadcasts his attacks too much, his smashes have long start and ending lag, and opponents can work around the monado arts since they can clearly see which one you activate. he's got decent aerials and tilts and he'll have to abuse these constantly to get reliable hits
 
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Magcargo said:
Haven't tried fox, but Falco is pretty solid from my experience (don't know why people are dismissing him so easily). His tilts, dash attack, grabs and jabs are pretty amazing while his F-Air and B-Air are great for edge guarding and are solid kill moves at High %. D-Air is pretty crappy now that the spike isn't instant (although I've seen a few users on smashboards make some comments on how to get easy low % kills off stage w/ this move). His recovery has been improved as well since You can use Fire Bird after you use Falco Phantasm, improving his off stage game. Non-custom Lasers are pretty much useless though since their extremely laggy.
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The thing with Falco and why literally everybody thinks he's bottom tier is because: no more chain grabs due to smash 4 mechanics, lasers are useless (with customs off, which is a standard for glory mode limitation) due to how terrible they are overall in smash 4. He's slower. From what I've seen he's F-Air are unsafe and it doesn't seem to be all that good so your best bet is RARing B-Airs which is going to be your best way to approach. But there's no more L canceling which neuters your aerial game quite a bit.

Overall Falco just for me, doesn't seem worth it because of all the nerfs and how laggy and slow he is, I could be wrong though, we've only got this game for a month. For example of what new status can do to a game- when the game first came out, nobody knew about mega man advance techniques such as leafshield RARA , leafshield gimping, rush cancelling and more.
 
i'd like to add another topic to the shulk discussion aside from his monado arts

his hitboxes

nair has some really good disjoint at the apex of the swing and it's a really good spacing tool on the stage paired with fair for mixups; nair's largest hitbox is somewhere around the middle and end of the animation and it can put you in a pretty nice position for followups if you land it while landing, bit like marth fair used to do. Shulk's Fair has some more punch to it in terms of knockback and it has slightly different timing so you can use it as a mixup option and to get losers out of your personal space. Downsmash has got a much better disjoint than Fsmash. It's like, they went and nerfed Marth's Fsmash range and then they decided to just go ahead and throw something bigger in. Also, utilt = uber leet pro comboz into itself and an anti-air.
 
Monte Cristo said:
The thing with Falco and why literally everybody thinks he's bottom tier is because: no more chain grabs due to smash 4 mechanics, lasers are useless (with customs off, which is a standard for glory mode limitation) due to how terrible they are overall in smash 4. He's slower. From what I've seen he's F-Air are unsafe and it doesn't seem to be all that good so your best bet is RARing B-Airs which is going to be your best way to approach. But there's no more L canceling which neuters your aerial game quite a bit.

Overall Falco just for me, doesn't seem worth it because of all the nerfs and how laggy and slow he is, I could be wrong though, we've only got this game for a month. For example of what new status can do to a game- when the game first came out, nobody knew about mega man advance techniques such as leafshield RARA , leafshield gimping, rush cancelling and more.
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Falco has been completely changed from his brawl version from a quick aerial fighter to a hard-hitting ground one. Falco's now gone through two style of play changes, making people that liked his style in one game unlikely to pick him up, and with his good close combat abilities now, there's not much of a reason to play him over Little Mac, lowering the amount of new people to pick him up. I guess he has good recovery, though. It's just that he doesn't play like either melee or brawl, so most people aren't interested.
 
I just wonder if he still has his Dash Attack - DACUS combo. And RIP Pillaring, honestly one of the funner things to witness in Melee imo. Shame that JC shining is just completely gone, it would've been fine without wavedashing and multishining lol
 
Minwu said:
i'd like to add another topic to the shulk discussion aside from his monado arts

his hitboxes

nair has some really good disjoint at the apex of the swing and it's a really good spacing tool on the stage paired with fair for mixups; nair's largest hitbox is somewhere around the middle and end of the animation and it can put you in a pretty nice position for followups if you land it while landing, bit like marth fair used to do. Shulk's Fair has some more punch to it in terms of knockback and it has slightly different timing so you can use it as a mixup option and to get losers out of your personal space. Downsmash has got a much better disjoint than Fsmash. It's like, they went and nerfed Marth's Fsmash range and then they decided to just go ahead and throw something bigger in. Also, utilt = uber leet pro comboz into itself and an anti-air.
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Yeah, this is a really cool thing I've noticed with Shulk. Another is the Jump Monado Art. We know what it does directly, but it lets Shulk get the edge vs. Little Mac since your edgeguard range is soooo massive with that power activated. This is good against most of the roster, but especially Mac since he can easily overpower Shulk (and most of the rest of the roster too) to make it difficult to survive when Shield art is used up. What it also does is allow you to start KOing opponents at 70-90% with an up smash -> up air combo due to Shulk's vertical range with the power. This is risky since Shulk's up smash is probably the hardest of his smashes to hit (none are that easy) but the reward is pretty sweet.

I prefer Falco to Mac for a couple of reasons. For one, Falco can at least discourage projectile spam with his Reflector. Little Mac doesn't have this luxury in the slightest. Recovery is another. Because Phantasm can be acted out of now (there is a bit of a delay, which is unfortunate) Falco's recovery range is much better than it ever has been. We all know Little Mac's issues with recovery. And finally, Falco still has a decent aerial game. While it's nowhere near as good as his aerial game from Brawl or Melee, his bair and nair are still decent options. Little Mac does have a lot more power behind his moves on the ground, but at least Falco isn't completely helpless in the air.
 
Just wanna put it in a good word for Diddy Kong in this game. Been messing around with him for the last 2 days and he's an absolute blast to play.

I never used him in brawl because I was offput by some of his attacks and the banana shenanigans seemed intimidating to learn, but I'm loving him in this game. He didn't really feel like Diddy Kong would play like in SSBB to me. He totally does in SSB4. You do all kinds of wacky shit with bananas and other approaches to get a down throw and start following up with uairs and fairs. His Down Throw, Forward Air, and Up Air are sex. He lacks killing power, but as someone who's often been frustrated trying to kill with other characters, it doesn't bother me with diddy strangely. I think it's because the natural flow of the character just intuitively leads itself into KOs. It's great having to turn off the part of you worrying when you'll get the kill.

Highly HIGHLY recommend him. He's a joy to play and from the reactions in #ssb, he's a monster to fight.
 
I dabbled with Diddy in Brawl, and almost considered picking him up, but in the end just stuck with my usuals. I really like him this time around, though. I feel with just one banana, his metagame has shifted from being a pure nana abuser to using it as an aid. Not only that, I just enjoy his aerials and Smashes a lot more in this game. He's honestly a great character.
 
I haven't really played with Diddy that much, but I can confirm that he is very solid in the hands of a good player. I can generally beat him with Shulk by using the Shield and Speed Powers to abuse the fact Diddy has a hard time killing, but he's pretty difficult for me to face. Lucario is a 50 / 50 for me. If I can stay grounded at higher damage to utilize Force Palm defensively, I'm in good shape, but Aura range means jack shit when you're lifted into the air. Falco is an ok match-up, but because his aerials got nerfed a fair bit, it's an uphill battle. And Falcon? Well, let's just say Diddy can still edgeguard pretty well when you have a fast fall rate. I never picked Diddy up in Brawl, but I may give him a shot to see his changes for myself.
 
diddy is very good in this, i've seen people saying he's a top tier character though i've never gone up against one that i would say is amazing. definitely has a lot of combo potential but i find myself struggling to score a KO. his recovery is also a bit dodgy and seems like it could be edgeguarded easily considering you have to charge the up b for a long time to have it actually travel far - seems like characters who can just chuck a projectile onto him (pacman, both links, megaman) could mess it up fairly easily.

i also think pikachu is being underrated - i played against a very good one and its aerials are great, its smash attacks are very solid, its throws follow up into other moves and its neutral b is incredibly annoying. feels like another diddy to be honest. though going by the old smash tier lists pikachu's always underrated at the start of the metagame.
 
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Diddy is actually so good. I love the serious combo potentials that a lot of characters have now. Diddy, Sheik, Toon Link, Mario and Yoshi come to mind.
 
EonX said:
What it also does is allow you to start KOing opponents at 70-90% with an up smash -> up air combo due to Shulk's vertical range with the power. This is risky since Shulk's up smash is probably the hardest of his smashes to hit (none are that easy) but the reward is pretty sweet.
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On a related note, #lightweight4life. It's easily palutena's best move, and it really saddens me that it's not a default special. Having a jump power on demand is really great for her kill potential.
 
Maybe not entirely useful on hardcore difficulties, but I found out that Greninja pretty much lulz all over Master Hand. Get on top of it, use D-air, and you'll deal damage and bounce up higher than you were, then you can repeat the move. Master Hand will follow you up in the air, try to attack you high up, at which point you can dodge/fast fall back to stage, and easily get away from his attacks. Rinse and repeat. I tried the tactic against Master Core too, and while it wasn't that big a success, I completely evaded most attacks from the Blade form.
 
It is really quite effective against the Blade form actually, any way you can get a ton of damage in the air on that thing without landing is great. Just make sure you dodge or you'll get sky KO'ed at 0%. Substitute Ambush is also really damn nice against Scorpion and other forms.
 
Codraroll said:
Maybe not entirely useful on hardcore difficulties, but I found out that Greninja pretty much lulz all over Master Hand. Get on top of it, use D-air, and you'll deal damage and bounce up higher than you were, then you can repeat the move. Master Hand will follow you up in the air, try to attack you high up, at which point you can dodge/fast fall back to stage, and easily get away from his attacks. Rinse and repeat. I tried the tactic against Master Core too, and while it wasn't that big a success, I completely evaded most attacks from the Blade form.
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I feel it's more effective to just spam Greninja's U-smash against Master Hand, since it deals more damage in less time than D-air, and for Master Hand you really want to get that fight out of the way as fast as possible. I also tend to spam U-smash against the Master Core forms, although that doesn't really work out as well since it can leave you open to a battering. I'm not sure D-airing is safe against the Scorpion/Swords since being in the air leaves you rather vulnerable (especially to those annoying "crash into the stage" attacks), but I guess I'll try it in the future since I have yet to beat Classic Mode on 9.0...
 
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Pic of the day. Here's the main menu of the Wii U Version. Colorful silhouettes of various fighters stream in the background. It looks sparkly.


(I was not expecting a POTD so soon)
 
Camping with any character and not approaching is literally always anti-mac. Just wait at a ledge for them to approach, grab, throw off-stage, and try to edgeguard. This can be easier said than done chz it doesn't always work, but Little Mac usually cant do anything about it.

Otherwise, try to play him in the air if you're using something like Sheik, and/or spam projectiles from a safe distance.
 
Arikado said:
Camping with any character and not approaching is literally always anti-mac. Just wait at a ledge for them to approach, grab, throw off-stage, and try to edgeguard. This can be easier said than done chz it doesn't always work, but Little Mac usually cant do anything about it.

Otherwise, try to play him in the air if you're using something like Sheik, and/or spam projectiles from a safe distance.
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Actually, the video was meant to be a joke, since I found the way he died to be funny. lol
 
Arikado said:
Camping with any character and not approaching is literally always anti-mac. Just wait at a ledge for them to approach, grab, throw off-stage, and try to edgeguard. This can be easier said than done chz it doesn't always work, but Little Mac usually cant do anything about it.

Otherwise, try to play him in the air if you're using something like Sheik, and/or spam projectiles from a safe distance.
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P. much this. Any character you can get vertical with is at least a decent choice against Little Mac. I've picked up on this by kinda abusing the Jump Monado Power with Shulk and it works really well so long as mix nair, fair, and Vision to land close. Once I land a Vision on a Smash attack, I can just edgeguard the crap out of Mac due to Shulk's jumping prowess with the Power. Shiek and ZSS can also do this pretty well thanks to their solid air games. But if you aren't good with vertical characters or have a good projectile character like Mega Man, you're kinda fucked against Little Mac.
 
How do aerial approaches shut out Mac's up-angled fsmash or usmash, exactly? To my understanding they still have superarmor, but this is coming from someone who hasn't had much online playtime and nearly 0 playtime as or against Mac.


On that note, Ludwig feels really good. I've played about 4 hours against my longtime Smash Rival (ex MK, Dedede main) and Ludwig has been bodying me. Strong disjoints, forces projectile-less characters like my Lucina to approach him, good juggling and offstage game. I can almost go even or win out against this guy on the ground, but Ludwig's just so overpowering in the air my best choice to come back down is usually a Counter in my experience. There's so few pros that use him too; anyone else have much experience against him?
 
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Lemmy is best Koopaling, bro.

But yeah, I really like playing as them, though I wouldn't consider them overpowering in the air, myself. They are pretty good, no doubt, but the lag on their aerials makes it relatively easy to get the right hit on them and force them to the ground.
 
Minwu said:
How do aerial approaches shut out Mac's up-angled fsmash or usmash, exactly? To my understanding they still have superarmor, but this is coming from someone who hasn't had much online playtime and nearly 0 playtime as or against Mac.


On that note, Ludwig feels really good. I've played about 4 hours against my longtime Smash Rival (ex MK, Dedede main) and Ludwig has been bodying me. Strong disjoints, forces projectile-less characters like my Lucina to approach him, good juggling and offstage game. I can almost go even or win out against this guy on the ground, but Ludwig's just so overpowering in the air my best choice to come back down is usually a Counter in my experience. There's so few pros that use him too; anyone else have much experience against him?
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They don't. You gotta wait until they're not charging a smash attack, or wait for them to approach and attack where you can easily grab them, throw them, and start aerial combos.
 
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