Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #1002))

[BolTingBlazie]

Honestly I think Weavile should rise to A+ reflective of the tournament results. Also Weavile is honestly the bigger threat on the builder when comparing it to Meow considering how incredibly hard triple axel and knock off hit coming from it. SD Weavile is also absolutely crazy when paired with tera ice allowing for triple axel to achieve some absurd calcs.

Basically I'm saying Meow and Weavile should probably swap places on the VR reflective of the recent tournament results and due to the fact that Weavile has shown itself to be the bigger threat of the two for how potent its wallbreaking power can be.

 

[Conflux123]

Honestly I think Weavile should rise to A+ reflective of the tournament results. Also Weavile is honestly the bigger threat on the builder when comparing it to Meow considering how incredibly hard triple axel and knock off hit coming from it. SD Weavile is also absolutely crazy when paired with tera ice allowing for triple axel to achieve some absurd calcs.

Basically I'm saying Meow and Weavile should probably swap places on the VR reflective of the recent tournament results and due to the fact that Weavile has shown itself to be the bigger threat of the two for how potent its wallbreaking power can be.

I feel like they kind of hold different niches since meow also gets STAB on anything with Protean while also having access to U-turn and Flower Trick.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

I feel like they kind of hold different niches since meow also gets STAB on anything with Protean while also having access to U-turn and Flower Trick.

Yes they do, just highlighting that Weavile seems to be a massive threat right now

 

[Conflux123]

Yes they do, just highlighting that Weavile seems to be a massive threat right now

Ok I completely agree with that. I feel ilke Weavile is like a wincon that can act like a wallbreaker as well as being a strongknock off user, while meowscarada is a knock off user that is hard to switch into and can pivot in breakers with u-turn.

 

[dragonbr]

Talonflame
Unranked -> C+

… it’s Moltres with Defog (and a defogger that beats Ghold).

also like everything stopped running rock moves except cornerstone and boulder, and defog on this means its a lot less afraid of knock then moltres is

i rest my case

also Blissey

C+ -> B/B-

name one other thing that can wall every special move excluding Secret Sword and Psyshock. The ability to basically turn opposing Specs Kyurems (or just any non-psyshock special attacker) into free rocks, is really insane. Its also experienced a new niche bonus, as its huge HP stat can allow it to turn it’s relatively small defense stat into a bonus against opposing Gouging Fire, and other recoil move users as well, dealing huge chip when hit.

 

[veti]

-> A+

Making this nomination on Great Tusk feels like it should be wrong in any normal timeline but I don't think Great Tusk is S- worthy. As a ground, Gliscor and Ting Lu are tough competition while Great Tusk playstyles feel inconsistent, Gliscor playstyles are more consistent and feel less matchup fishy and easier to play in my experience. As a remover Great Tusk struggles against Hyper Offense that can easily spinblock or punish spin attempts with easy setup opportunities and struggles against Gliscor builds that outlast Great Tusk and put it on a fast ticking timer whenever it wants to spin with Toxic, Rocky Helmet and the very hazards Tusk tries to spin. Great Tusk shouldn't drop any further than A+ due to half checking Kingambit and opening up many opportunities for choiced breakers and Ogerpon to repeatedly batter opposing teams without getting worn down, but the inconsistency of Tusk compared to Gliscor warrants a drop in my eyes.

 

[Conflux123]

Talonflame
Unranked -> C+

… it’s Moltres with Defog (and a defogger that beats Ghold).

also like everything stopped running rock moves except cornerstone and boulder, and defog on this means its a lot less afraid of knock then moltres is

i rest my case

also Blissey

C+ -> B/B-

name one other thing that can wall every special move excluding Secret Sword and Psyshock. The ability to basically turn opposing Specs Kyurems (or just any non-psyshock special attacker) into free rocks, is really insane. Its also experienced a new niche bonus, as its huge HP stat can allow it to turn it’s relatively small defense stat into a bonus against opposing Gouging Fire, and other recoil move users as well, dealing huge chip when hit.

I feel like Blissey is where it is now because it is basically only used on stall, even if it's insanely good on stall.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

-> A+

Making this nomination on Great Tusk feels like it should be wrong in any normal timeline but I don't think Great Tusk is S- worthy. As a ground, Gliscor and Ting Lu are tough competition while Great Tusk playstyles feel inconsistent, Gliscor playstyles are more consistent and feel less matchup fishy and easier to play in my experience. As a remover Great Tusk struggles against Hyper Offense that can easily spinblock or punish spin attempts with easy setup opportunities and struggles against Gliscor builds that outlast Great Tusk and put it on a fast ticking timer whenever it wants to spin with Toxic, Rocky Helmet and the very hazards Tusk tries to spin. Great Tusk shouldn't drop any further than A+ due to half checking Kingambit and opening up many opportunities for choiced breakers and Ogerpon to repeatedly batter opposing teams without getting worn down, but the inconsistency of Tusk compared to Gliscor warrants a drop in my eyes.

I'm not sure if I agree, I think Tusk and Gliscor are about evenly viable in this meta, since there are threats that Gliscor just cannot answer as easily as tusk due to the fact that tusk is way more threatening to a lot of the meta threats right out of the gate. Something like Gouging Fire has a way harder time dealing with offensive tusk compared to Gliscor which can be punished pretty hard by it even if Gliscor can also check it.

Also tusk does a little better into Weavile since it is way more likely to be able to eat a triple axel than Gliscor is. In a weird way, Tusk actually has quite a bit over Gliscor despite them being equally fantastic in their own way. Both feel like S- mons to me.

I think while Landorus-T is still viable though, Gliscor and Tusk are usually better and it feels like a weird sidegrade to both sometimes despite having a decent place in the meta and intimidate uturn over them, should probably go to B+ tier.

Also we should drop to like C+/B- it just kinda sucks even with its defensive prowess and regen outside of stall and even on stall it's like really meh, like it's even more outclassed than it was as a defensive pokemon since Tentacruel, despite not having Regen seems to have more utility than it. It just feels like a water/poison blissey that switches into things and takes hits and just doesn't do anything. How the Pex has fallen to Gamefreak's nerf hammer... Assault Vest Pex really doesn't cut it anymore with monsters like Archaludon running around, and physdef Pex just doesn't take hits from stuff like Gouging Fire and other offensive monsters that if it had its utility from gen 8 it could at least cripple.

 

[ausma]

will begin the next slate after the kyurem suspect ends

 

[ianlazerbeem]

Talonflame
Unranked -> C+

… it’s Moltres with Defog (and a defogger that beats Ghold).

also like everything stopped running rock moves except cornerstone and boulder, and defog on this means its a lot less afraid of knock then moltres is

i rest my case

also Blissey

C+ -> B/B-

name one other thing that can wall every special move excluding Secret Sword and Psyshock. The ability to basically turn opposing Specs Kyurems (or just any non-psyshock special attacker) into free rocks, is really insane. Its also experienced a new niche bonus, as its huge HP stat can allow it to turn it’s relatively small defense stat into a bonus against opposing Gouging Fire, and other recoil move users as well, dealing huge chip when hit.

Wait Talon is unranked? I'm sorry I don't have a replays for this but Talon is almost a stall staple, the Rillaboom and Kingambit matchups are unmatched, and it has Defog for dealing with the fact that doing its job usually involves being knocked, and trading boots for burn on either of those two is 100% worth it, unranked is crazy, this is not a "useless" or "nicheless" Pokémon in any way, it should be somewhere in C, C+ seems about right. The idea that Moltres is C+ when it has negligably more bulk and TalonGOAT being unranked when Moltres can't even Defog is completely backwards. Moltres is barely a consideration on Stall whereas Talon is quite common, for that Defog Difference. The Pokémon that an entire archetype chooses over the C+ alternative is not an "unranked."

-> C+

 

[Big Water Lover]

Nomming Primarina to A-
Water/Fairy is an phenomenal typing right now, from experience, modest 252 spa with AV can 2hko the majority of S to A- rank mons bar like Gking,Tinglu and Blissey with either stabs, with AV it can answer big threats like Volcarona (Psychic noise stops drain), valiant, enamorus and you can even beat raging bolt 1v1 (there are other obvious ones but I dont want to list them all). Like why is Prim with stall guys, cheese mon (singular) and just plain not good mons.

 

[Ehmcee]

A is too high IMO and to be honest I’m surprised to see any swift swimmers at all in A rank, given their limitations. The gap between Barraskewda and the rest of the viable swimmers should not be two full ranks. Kingdra, Basculegion-M, Basculegion-F, Floatzel, and even Golduck are all viable and have some advantages over Barraskewda.

Kingdra - outspeeds all boosters, not vulnerable to chip / flame body, higher damage output (base power of moves, dragon STAB, Hurricane), superior bulk, survives Grassy Glide, Sucker Punch and Thunderclap.

Basculegion-M - outspeeds all boosters except Iron Boulder (which dies to Aqua Jet), higher damage output (Wave Crash), significantly higher bulk, spin blocks, survives Extremespeed

Basculegion-F - same as Male but with slightly more special power than Kingdra. STAB on Shadow Ball.

Floatzel - outspeeds all boosters. Higher damage output (Wave Crash). Slightly more bulk.

Golduck - out speeds all boosters. Same damage output as Kingdra with Specs, or can run the real set Nasty Plot + 3 attacks which is an insane set. (OUTJ UU to suspect took Golduck & Floatzel to 2100 Elo).

Just saying. Either Skewda should drop a bit or the other swimmers should get bumped.

Ik it's been a good while, but I very much disagree with this assessment, Barraskewda holds a very large advantage over all of these options simply for it's speed both inside and outside of rain. It's standard speed tier hits an extremely useful speed tier at 371 with an Adamant set, outspeeding Cinderace, Roaring Moon and unboosted Iron Valiant.

Additionally it holds a niche outside of floatzel due to having an efficient coverage option in Close Combat, helping a ton against water resists as well as Ogerpon-W, which Floatzel crumbles to.

Floatzel is the second best option out of all of those in my opinion, with basculegion-M a tad behind. Floatzel is the only one able to achieve a high enough speed tier to beat out most fast threats in the meta, for reference, Jolly Basculegion in rain doesn't even outspeed Iron Boulder, while Adamant doesn't outspeed the ever so common Iron Valiant after a booster energy boost.

I think special swift swim sweepers are also at a major disadvantage compared to physical ones, just because of how much they get shut down by the ever so present Slowking-G, not only tanking most of their attacks, but also setting hail to stop a sweep from them.

 

[RaikouLover]

Ik it's been a good while, but I very much disagree with this assessment, Barraskewda holds a very large advantage over all of these options simply for it's speed both inside and outside of rain. It's standard speed tier hits an extremely useful speed tier at 371 with an Adamant set, outspeeding Cinderace, Roaring Moon and unboosted Iron Valiant.

Additionally it holds a niche outside of floatzel due to having an efficient coverage option in Close Combat, helping a ton against water resists as well as Ogerpon-W, which Floatzel crumbles to.

Floatzel is the second best option out of all of those in my opinion, with basculegion-M a tad behind. Floatzel is the only one able to achieve a high enough speed tier to beat out most fast threats in the meta, for reference, Jolly Basculegion in rain doesn't even outspeed Iron Boulder, while Adamant doesn't outspeed the ever so common Iron Valiant after a booster energy boost.

I think special swift swim sweepers are also at a major disadvantage compared to physical ones, just because of how much they get shut down by the ever so present Slowking-G, not only tanking most of their attacks, but also setting hail to stop a sweep from them.

I very much disagree and have actually used all of them. I encourage people to try the others.

Nah, Slowbro-G isn’t walling:

Washed up?

252 SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Rain: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Basculegion-F Surf vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Rain: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Rain: 229-271 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 222-264 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Rain: 313-370 (79.4 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Water Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Rain: 419-494 (106.3 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Dreadfury]

all to A+ and to A-

Probably shouldn't be too controversial of a series of noms, but rain's been putting in some serious work in the last couple weeks of SPL and the rain squads in question are almost exclusively spearheaded by these four. I'd argue these guys all deserve a bump even with the meta being the way it is right now, although obviously if Kyurem gets banned it's a lot easier to justify bumping them up since Kyurem's such a favorable MU for rain.

I could settle for Barraskewda being A, but I think Arch (alongside Pelipper) absolutely deserves to be A+. This thing's incredibly good at forcing trades and is basically never dead weight; it's too bulky to reliably OHKO, it takes very little for it to get unreasonably strong into slower teams due to how free Electro Shot is when rain's up, and it doesn't do poorly into opposing weather setters either since it's just strong as fuck.

 

[Ehmcee]

I very much disagree and have actually used all of them. I encourage people to try the others.

Nah, Slowbro-G isn’t walling:

Washed up?

252 SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Rain: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Basculegion-F Surf vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Rain: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Rain: 229-271 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 222-264 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Rain: 313-370 (79.4 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Water Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Rain: 419-494 (106.3 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I think the speed is just too good to pass up, especially when you want your swift swimmer to act as your main form of speed control. We can disagree on this but there's a reason most players use Barra instead of the others.

And yeah, Gking gets 2hko'd by all of these, but these mons can only get one kill and get stopped once Gking gets a free switch, it's another story entirely if Gking decides to Tera Water, making all of them get fully walled, as opposed to the physical swift swimmers, who can usually 2HKO it anyway.

 

[RaikouLover]

I think the speed is just too good to pass up, especially when you want your swift swimmer to act as your main form of speed control. We can disagree on this but there's a reason most players use Barra instead of the others.

Going off interpretation previous viability metrics (I don't know if it has changed), A ranks are generally for mons that don't really need support to benefit the team, and are a net positive to the team. B ranks are for competitively viable pokemon that need some support. C ranks and lower are fringe options that can be competitive but are highly niche and need a lot of support. Something along that line. That's why I'm shocked to see any Swift Swimmers ever show up in A rank, as they don't offer much of anything to the team outside of rain, while needing rain to function optimally.

I think Barraskewda should go from A- to B+, per the above interpretation.

Basculegion-M should be at least B- with Kingdra, as it offers Ghost typing (spin block, Extremespeed, Population bomb immunity) along with more power and similar bulk.

Those are my offical noms at this time.

 

[xavgb]

Going off interpretation previous viability metrics (I don't know if it has changed), A ranks are generally for mons that don't really need support to benefit the team, and are a net positive to the team. B ranks are for competitively viable pokemon that need some support. C ranks and lower are fringe options that can be competitive but are highly niche and need a lot of support. Something along that line. That's why I'm shocked to see any Swift Swimmers ever show up in A rank, as they don't offer much of anything to the team outside of rain, while needing rain to function optimally.

I think Barraskewda should go from A- to B+, per the above interpretation.

Basculegion-M should be at least B- with Kingdra, as it offers Ghost typing (spin block, Extremespeed, Population bomb immunity) along with more power and similar bulk.

Those are my offical noms at this time.

Something a bit more powerful than the older vague definitions of each rank is the idea that mons which are completely locked to specific playstyles (like the weathers) should be ranked relative to each other (with the center-pieces of the style being ranked relative to the meta as a whole). Barraskewda is the most picked Swift Swimmer by far on high-level rain teams, and is the 3rd/4th most picked mon on the style in general (behind Peli/Arch barely, and roughly equal with Iron Treads), so I think the only two rankings that would make sense for Barraskewda are level with Peli (A) or one subrank lower (A-). Barra in B+ wouldn't represent the metagame well imo.

 

[Shaymin Sky]

From A- to -> A

For reference I will be talking about this Serperior set in specific

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Steel/Fairy
EVs: 136 HP / 120 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Glare
- Leaf Storm
- Leech Seed

this is undeniably the best set and most Tera Blast variants are too committal, can't fire off as many glares, and lack self sustain in order to pressure long term. Trust me I have tried them all, this 1 is just THE best.

boast tons of value in this metagame with most of that thanks to Glare. Electric types barring the surge of , are at an all time low and it's very difficult to block glare without burning your tera, or going hard Raging Bolt. In regards to the latter Raging Bolt is not the unbeatable defensive check most think it is against Serperior. Substitute + Leech seed destroys Raging Bolt's that aren't :choicespecs: Volt Switch, as you can substitute on the opposing Raging Bolt switch in and leech seed. From there you win 1v1 by spamming Substitute, and if they swap their Raging Bolt out then you still have a free substitute up which nets a Glare. You literally cannot consistently win a 1v1 against Serperior

Calc showing HDB Volt Switch cannot break Substitute:
252+ SpA Raging Bolt Volt Switch vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 68-81 (20.9 - 24.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Serperior can do this Substitute spam to virtually any Pokemon thats not; , Triple Axel users like and , U-Turn , with Icicle Spear (rare btw), Encore , or Chilly Reception + any of these other listed pokemon.

While these checks to Serperior certainly do exist, with Tera Steel Serperior is able to blow past the threats of Triple Axel or Icicle Spear and cripple Meowscarada, Weavile, and Kyurem for the rest of the game and maybe even win the 1v1. The same can be said for Corviknight but you don't even need to Tera against it since it uses Slow Turn (this same idea applies to Glowking too).

Depending on the Tera and health of Serperior, a Dragapult is also not safe for a last second Glare in the 1v1. Lastly these Pokemon have no way of safely switching in without having either the specific Corviknight set, or Chilly Reception Slowking-Galar. All of Dragapult, Weavile, Meowscarada, Kyurem and others cannot consistently check Serperior without having some form of safe pivot which is 2 Pokemon in the entire tier which still get Glared and 1 of them doesn't even run U-Turn on all of it's sets. As for :IronValiant: it has to come in safely somehow against a likely +2 boosted Serperior who threatens to OHKO it (glare works too if not boosted).

This is not to say that Serperior should be banned tomorrow, but its undeniable that Serperior does not net insane value in this metagame regardless of the matchup at hand. Serperior quite literally has 1 gameplan and it works across every single matchup in the game, trying to deny Glare or Substitute Leech Seed pressure is almost impossible. The value from this set is nothing small either, Paralysis is the second most threatening status next to Freeze and it makes entire gameplans inconsistent/unreliable on the opponents side.

Also lets say your opponent doesn't have one of these Pokemon that can check Serperior, what then? Well if you have been paying attention to anything regarding my Hax Squad you'll know Serperior can just solo win games in 1900's against teams without proper offensive checks. Glare gives so much oppurtunity for turn advantage/momentum that it's easy for Serperior to run away with games without even using Leaf Storm that much. This is especially true against Sun, Rain, some Balance teams, most Bulky Offense, and Trick room. Some of the wins I have gotten are just so uncompetitive I feel bad, and the counterplay is just very ultra specific and most playstyles besides Fat Balance and some BO can't fit these options barring Dragapult. These traits are not at all representing of an A- Pokemon. An A- Pokemon don't just win games because of 1 or 2 Para's, or has game lasting value that's nearly impossible to avoid, or can sweep off rip with little assistance needed, or have very specific counterplay that can't work reliably besides on 1/2 playstyles.

I have been laddering with for over a month at this point and I can safely say its ATLEAST A, I'd even argue A+ (if u guys do that thank you.) but that may be a bit controversial so I'll go with A for now to not ruffle anyone's Swanna feathers.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2045084901
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2044152329?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2043463208
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2043237292
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2042716236?p2
I have 48 more replays of Serperior winning with sub seed glare hax but you get the idea, also I managed to stay consistently mid 1900 for several weeks and 90% of the reason for this was because of Serperior Carrying insanely hard lol.

 

[Ryomathekillers]

From A- to -> A

For reference I will be talking about this Serperior set in specific

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Steel/Fairy
EVs: 136 HP / 120 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Glare
- Leaf Storm
- Leech Seed

this is undeniably the best set and most Tera Blast variants are too committal, can't fire off as many glares, and lack self sustain in order to pressure long term. Trust me I have tried them all, this 1 is just THE best.

boast tons of value in this metagame with most of that thanks to Glare. Electric types barring the surge of , are at an all time low and it's very difficult to block glare without burning your tera, or going hard Raging Bolt. In regards to the latter Raging Bolt is not the unbeatable defensive check most think it is against Serperior. Substitute + Leech seed destroys Raging Bolt's that aren't :choicespecs: Volt Switch, as you can substitute on the opposing Raging Bolt switch in and leech seed. From there you win 1v1 by spamming Substitute, and if they swap their Raging Bolt out then you still have a free substitute up which nets a Glare. You literally cannot consistently win a 1v1 against Serperior

Calc showing HDB Volt Switch cannot break Substitute:
252+ SpA Raging Bolt Volt Switch vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 68-81 (20.9 - 24.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Serperior can do this Substitute spam to virtually any Pokemon thats not; , Triple Axel users like and , U-Turn , with Icicle Spear (rare btw), Encore , or Chilly Reception + any of these other listed pokemon.

While these checks to Serperior certainly do exist, with Tera Steel Serperior is able to blow past the threats of Triple Axel or Icicle Spear and cripple Meowscarada, Weavile, and Kyurem for the rest of the game and maybe even win the 1v1. The same can be said for Corviknight but you don't even need to Tera against it since it uses Slow Turn (this same idea applies to Glowking too).

Depending on the Tera and health of Serperior, a Dragapult is also not safe for a last second Glare in the 1v1. Lastly these Pokemon have no way of safely switching in without having either the specific Corviknight set, or Chilly Reception Slowking-Galar. All of Dragapult, Weavile, Meowscarada, Kyurem and others cannot consistently check Serperior without having some form of safe pivot which is 2 Pokemon in the entire tier which still get Glared and 1 of them doesn't even run U-Turn on all of it's sets. As for :IronValiant: it has to come in safely somehow against a likely +2 boosted Serperior who threatens to OHKO it (glare works too if not boosted).

This is not to say that Serperior should be banned tomorrow, but its undeniable that Serperior does not net insane value in this metagame regardless of the matchup at hand. Serperior quite literally has 1 gameplan and it works across every single matchup in the game, trying to deny Glare or Substitute Leech Seed pressure is almost impossible. The value from this set is nothing small either, Paralysis is the second most threatening status next to Freeze and it makes entire gameplans inconsistent/unreliable on the opponents side.

Also lets say your opponent doesn't have one of these Pokemon that can check Serperior, what then? Well if you have been paying attention to anything regarding my Hax Squad you'll know Serperior can just solo win games in 1900's against teams without proper offensive checks. Glare gives so much oppurtunity for turn advantage/momentum that it's easy for Serperior to run away with games without even using Leaf Storm that much. This is especially true against Sun, Rain, some Balance teams, most Bulky Offense, and Trick room. Some of the wins I have gotten are just so uncompetitive I feel bad, and the counterplay is just very ultra specific and most playstyles besides Fat Balance and some BO can't fit these options barring Dragapult. These traits are not at all representing of an A- Pokemon. An A- Pokemon don't just win games because of 1 or 2 Para's, or has game lasting value that's nearly impossible to avoid, or can sweep off rip with little assistance needed, or have very specific counterplay that can't work reliably besides on 1/2 playstyles.

I have been laddering with for over a month at this point and I can safely say its ATLEAST A, I'd even argue A+ (if u guys do that thank you.) but that may be a bit controversial so I'll go with A for now to not ruffle anyone's Swanna feathers.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2045084901
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2044152329?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2043463208
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2043237292
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2042716236?p2
I have 48 more replays of Serperior winning with sub seed glare hax but you get the idea, also I managed to stay consistently mid 1900 for several weeks and 90% of the reason for this was because of Serperior Carrying insanely hard lol.

Serp goat but whats up with the H-Qwilfish? What set are you running with it?

On another note
I fail to understand what is the reasoning with the VR ranking policies regarding weather pokemon. Walking Wake is A but Torkoal is in A- which is odd as most of WWs viability is from sun. I am still yet to see a successful rain team without Barraskedwa yet it is in A- while Pelipper is in A. There's a lot of examples like this throughout this VR and in previous VRs. To my understanding Mons are ranked due to the viability of their best set, so when there are these structures like weather and viability is directly linked between the mons, wouldn't it make more sense to have the rankings be more comparable between the key staples?

Now that it has been a while since the DLC and the initial VR, I am struggling to see a reason why Hawlucha is not ranked higher than B. Rilaboom + Hawlucha is insanely strong rn in the meta and it reminds me of kokolucha from gen7 or even sneaslerboom this gen. The defensive profiling of Hawlucha is strong into a majority of the meta right now, with it being able to utilize encore + unburden to find an opportunity to get 1-2 SDs while also act as a semi reliable check to annoying mons such as Zamazenta, Kingambit, Rilaboom which it did before but due to the fact that many teams are running ironpress variants of corv or skarm to blanket check phys attackers and Hawlucha with encore beats them I think it has gained insane value, the decline of zapdos too has been super important for it.

Hawlucha is also very easy to slot onto a lot of teams as a partner to rilaboom for balance teams and offensive teams as it acts as a wincon and an "anti cheese" method for both, I don't think its comparable to pokemon such as Blaziken or Scizor and in this variant of the meta I find it at least as useful as the pokemon in B+ (although imo I'd argue its an A- mon). I believe that it always manages to find a use in matches and this is especially true due to unburden encore (which imo I prefer vastly over sub/roost/fire punch as the 4th move)

I don't have replays so I'll just add this as a side note. Hippowdown should be ranked at least to D tier, good anti meta mon into a lot of structures such as rain (as long as it has a partner that can tank a water hit) and pairs well with drill as a more durable alternative to ttar.

 

[ant4456]

Furret from UR -> D

I made a full essay post on OU Furret here and brought Furret with me to OST, so I'm going to give the cliff notes version here so the post doesn't fill the whole page (the full essay explains additional specifics). To keep it short and simple, Furret gained access to Tidy Up and has excellent role compression with Trick Scarf, Knock Off, and U-Turn. With Furret's ability to scout via Frisk, disrupt, clean hazards, and cripple bulky threats/setup sweepers (such as Bolt, DD Kyurem, etc.) along with being a utility pivot, it has become a fixture on numerous teams and has great synergy with Pokemon such as Great Tusk and Glowking. Furret's ability to terastallize also allows it to utilize its defensive profile to an unexpected advantage via Tera Fairy, providing both a natural Ghost immunity + a newfound Dragon immunity along with a Fighting resistance (fun bonus is that this can completely stuff Dragapult, especially with Scarf given that Furret outspeeds Pult with Scarf). I stand by Furret's utility and have personally confirmed (along with other contributors and players) that it has a strong utility niche in OU that cannot be replicated by any other Pokemon and should be ranked on VR for its numerous phenomenal qualities along with being able to consistently incapacitate two to three opposing Pokemon in a match.

OST Match - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2042289508?p2

Additional Interactions

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There are so, so, so many Pokemon that are actually underrated and deserving of being ranked that are unkranked (such as Comfey, which I am expecting will be added), and so many niches that you could make an actual argument for. But frankly this is just heat for the sake of heat, and it does not help that the tournament game you listed is one where Furret basically does some utility (that doesn't matter that much), and then the team decisively loses the game.

Utility is useful but we already have Pokemon that can do things like pack these utility options without being . Trick is on quite a few Pokemon, the ability to pivot is everywhere, and Knock Off is not hard to slot onto a team. Tidy Up is cool and all, but Maushold or Cinccino are far superior at using it because it turns that hazard removal into breaking/sweeping capabilities. That is far more useful than a Pokemon that uses Tidy Up and still does not do any real damage.

It is simply not enough to just have some utility and be good. If all Hatterene did was just block hazards, it'd not be good at all, that's what it was like in Gen 8 after all. Of course, Hatterene is also way better because way less competition, but with that being the case, people developed it to be more useful in general. Now it's a fairly useful extra wincon, giving it a second role. If you really need Knock Off + U-Turn + Hazard removal, Mandibuzz is right here. U-Turn and Defog is on Corviknight, and both of those birds can reliably heal and pivot out because they have resistances and good bulk.

Furret is not competitively viable in the SV OU tier. It will always be significantly worse than other options, and you'd have to try extremely hard to make a problem that Furret specifically solves.

 

[sire clod]

Ik it's been a good while, but I very much disagree with this assessment, Barraskewda holds a very large advantage over all of these options simply for it's speed both inside and outside of rain. It's standard speed tier hits an extremely useful speed tier at 371 with an Adamant set, outspeeding Cinderace, Roaring Moon and unboosted Iron Valiant.

Additionally it holds a niche outside of floatzel due to having an efficient coverage option in Close Combat, helping a ton against water resists as well as Ogerpon-W, which Floatzel crumbles to.

Floatzel is the second best option out of all of those in my opinion, with basculegion-M a tad behind. Floatzel is the only one able to achieve a high enough speed tier to beat out most fast threats in the meta, for reference, Jolly Basculegion in rain doesn't even outspeed Iron Boulder, while Adamant doesn't outspeed the ever so common Iron Valiant after a booster energy boost.

I think special swift swim sweepers are also at a major disadvantage compared to physical ones, just because of how much they get shut down by the ever so present Slowking-G, not only tanking most of their attacks, but also setting hail to stop a sweep from them.

More importantly, Barraskewda's FLIP TURN

(yeah yeah Kingdra gets flip turn and does 12% in the rain to a water weak)

 

[Shaymin Sky]

Serp goat but whats up with the H-Qwilfish? What set are you running with it?

On another note
I fail to understand what is the reasoning with the VR ranking policies regarding weather pokemon. Walking Wake is A but Torkoal is in A- which is odd as most of WWs viability is from sun. I am still yet to see a successful rain team without Barraskedwa yet it is in A- while Pelipper is in A. There's a lot of examples like this throughout this VR and in previous VRs. To my understanding Mons are ranked due to the viability of their best set, so when there are these structures like weather and viability is directly linked between the mons, wouldn't it make more sense to have the rankings be more comparable between the key staples?

View attachment 600430
Now that it has been a while since the DLC and the initial VR, I am struggling to see a reason why Hawlucha is not ranked higher than B. Rilaboom + Hawlucha is insanely strong rn in the meta and it reminds me of kokolucha from gen7 or even sneaslerboom this gen. The defensive profiling of Hawlucha is strong into a majority of the meta right now, with it being able to utilize encore + unburden to find an opportunity to get 1-2 SDs while also act as a semi reliable check to annoying mons such as Zamazenta, Kingambit, Rilaboom which it did before but due to the fact that many teams are running ironpress variants of corv or skarm to blanket check phys attackers and Hawlucha with encore beats them I think it has gained insane value, the decline of zapdos too has been super important for it.

Hawlucha is also very easy to slot onto a lot of teams as a partner to rilaboom for balance teams and offensive teams as it acts as a wincon and an "anti cheese" method for both, I don't think its comparable to pokemon such as Blaziken or Scizor and in this variant of the meta I find it at least as useful as the pokemon in B+ (although imo I'd argue its an A- mon). I believe that it always manages to find a use in matches and this is especially true due to unburden encore (which imo I prefer vastly over sub/roost/fire punch as the 4th move)

I don't have replays so I'll just add this as a side note. Hippowdown should be ranked at least to D tier, good anti meta mon into a lot of structures such as rain (as long as it has a partner that can tank a water hit) and pairs well with drill as a more durable alternative to ttar.

Acupressure Cheese is why I have the Qwilfish-Hisui, sorry for 1 liner.
This is the set since you asked

Qwilfish-Hisui @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Careful Nature
- Acupressure
- Waterfall/Crunch
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

 

[xavgb]

On another note
I fail to understand what is the reasoning with the VR ranking policies regarding weather pokemon. Walking Wake is A but Torkoal is in A- which is odd as most of WWs viability is from sun. I am still yet to see a successful rain team without Barraskedwa yet it is in A- while Pelipper is in A. There's a lot of examples like this throughout this VR and in previous VRs. To my understanding Mons are ranked due to the viability of their best set, so when there are these structures like weather and viability is directly linked between the mons, wouldn't it make more sense to have the rankings be more comparable between the key staples?

You'd have to ask the VR council members who actually voted Wake in A or Barra in A- to get a full answer, but the short version is that they believe in the threat of Boots/Booster Energy Wake or Barra-less rain to separate their rankings from the weather setter by a subrank.

 

[ausma]

With the suspect yielding a DNB result, we're gonna get voting underway and have something ready for you hopefully by this weekend!

Additionally, Baloor will be stepping down from the VR council; thank you for your service!

 

[ausma]

Sorry for the delay all! Had some stuff come up irl. I want to get this out before the end of Archaludon's suspect. Here are the rises and drops, with a lot of cleanup for the lower tiers especially!

Newly Added

Newly Added

UR to B-
UR to D
UR to C
UR to D
UR to D

Rises

Rises

S- to S
-
A to A+ (shocker right)
A to A+
A to A+
A- to A+
A- to A
A- to A
A- to A
A- to A
-
B+ to A-
B+ to A
B+ to A
B to A-
B to A-
A- to B+
B to B+
B to B+
-
C to B
C to C+
-
D to C
D to C
D to C
D to C

Drops

Drops

S- to A+
S- to A+
S- to A+
-
A+ to A
A+ to A-
A to B+
A to A-
A- to B+
A- to B+
A- to B+
A- to B+
-
B+ to B
B to C+
B to B-
B to B-
B to B-
B- to C+
B- to C+
B- to C+
-
C+ to D
C+ to C
C+ to D
C+ to C
C+ to C
C+ to C
C+ to D
C+ to D
C+ to D
C to D
C to D
C to D
C to UR
C to D
C to D
C to D

Major Changes:

Major Changes

UR to B-
(+3 Subrankings)

Truly one of the most unexpected and bizarre rises in success seen in the tier thus far, it goes to show how powerful and boundless that a creative application of Tera has the potential to be. On a Pokemon like Comfey with priority offensive healing, Stored Power, and potentially even Tera Blast, it has the ability to get out of hand quite quickly, especially with a Grassy Seed to bolster its Defense alongside Calm Mind.

B to A-
(+3 Subrankings)

Garganacl does Garganacl things, it's just gone under the radar a bit in the midst of the chaotic, highly powerful metagame. Covert Cloak is nowhere to be seen, and Substitute is a bit more fickle in usage, so Garganacl is trending positively right now.

B to A-
(+3 Subrankings)

It's never Heatrover. As it turns out, a Pokemon with excellent mixed bulk, a powerful click, useful abilities, and versatile utility options like Stealth Rock and Taunt is actually useful! Taunt + Magma Storm is especially potent, as it gives teams the ability to beat down and remove Slowking-Galar without a hitch with Heatran's typing and bulk to leverage it. It's an excellent stallbreaker with flexible applications; it's hard to keep it languishing in the B-ranks, so up it goes!

C to B
(+3 Subrankings)

Hisuian Lilligant has become Sun's Chlorophyll user of choice, offering high-power STAB options rounded off well by Triple Axel, as well as Healing Wish to leveraging Walking Wake or Gouging Fire to enter the field more aggressively. It also appreciates the hit in usage Gholdengo has recently taken.

A- to A+
B+ to A
(+2 Subrankings)

Archaludon. In the case of Iron Treads, it's seen success as role compression for weather comps in general thanks to its versatile kit, high speed, and useful coverage options. Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Volt Switch, Knock Off, Ice Spinner; it has it all, really.

B+ to A
(+2 Subrankings)

If you've been on the ladder at all, this should need no explanation. Primarina's great and extremely relevant typing, access to Psychic Noise (which has the potential to be influenced by Liquid Voice), ability to stack CM boosts, and natural synergy with a variety of compositions makes it an awesome and flexible Pokemon that can shift to offense or defense on a whim.

B to A-
(+2 Subrankings)

Alomomola is a very resilient Pokemon, as to be expected from a Pokemon with great all-around bulk, a good typing, and Regenerator. However add massive Wishes and slow pivoting into the equation, and you have a recipe for insane sustainability for balances and even some bulky offenses that want to keep sturdier Pokemon that lack recovery in the battle. It has appreciated the general saturation of the metagame, being a good blanket check into most dangerous physical threats like Sun-boosted Gouging Fire and Roaring Moon. With Ogerpon-Wellspring usage picking back up, however, it remains to be seen if Alomomola can keep up the positive streak it's had lately.

A+ to A-
(-2 Subrankings)

While a tantalizing option in the early metagame with newfound access to Triple Axel, it has slowly been falling out of favor. Weavile is stiff competition thanks to its Speed tier and winning power, while Meowscarada can only really keep one STAB at a time while lacking any boosting to boot. It's still an excellent Pokemon and offensive pivot with unique access to U-turn comparatively, but faces a bit more of a hostile environment right now.

A to B+
(-2 Subrankings)

As it turns out, Iron Boulder is much more threatening on paper than in practice. Between its gripes with moveslot limitations and its typing riddled with weaknesses to priority, it has found itself as a more dedicated option for offense with less leverage on other types of compositions. That being said, Iron Boulder is still an incredible offensive win condition with an asinine Speed tier thanks to Booster Energy, but it is a more committal option that doesn't always live up to the expectations.

B to C+
(-2 Subrankings)

The Sleep Move ban hit it hard, but at the end of the day it's still a bulky defensive Pokemon with key resists and annoying longevity that maintains a stable niche in the tier.

As always, we will be keeping the floor open for questions over the next 24 hours. Please be sure to read the "Major Changes" spoiler and check to see if your question has already been answered there or in the thread!