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Anyone running Sand Rush Houndstone is fooling themselves. That set is ass and loses to any good prio users, real chads run Fluffy Lefties with Body Press to never fucking die and be annoying as hell while also hitting Normals. This is also only half a joke, Fluffy sets are really quite annoying alternatives to Sand Rush that can turn the tides on physical prio users that would normally be used to RK Sand Rush sets.
I think this is a very interesting set, albeit definitely a beatable one. I’ve tried it out myself and I actually like it more than Sand Rush. Sure, it isn’t anywhere near as likely to sweep, but it is good at scoring 1-2 kills against high-priority mons in the late game.
From a Theorymon perspective if something needs to be banned, it's Last Respects, not Houndstone.
Now, still from Theorymon perspective, I don't think Last Respect is broken on Houndstone. The damage is incredible, but the Mon does need big support in Sand and Normal/Dark Mons removal. Granted, it can Terastal, but it's very likely that Terastal is eventually banned due to breaking many Mons, not just Houndstone.
From what I have heard and expected, Meta right now is very offensive and quite frail. Of course Weather Mons and Priority are good vs that. Bulkier teams will handle Houndstone better and even offensive ones can run Sucker Punch or boost the speed to outspeed Houndstone in Sand. There is counterplay. The attack Stat of Houndstone is lackuster and some Mons might even survive a 300 power hit, especially on bulkier teams. I honestly, think Houndstone adds a strategic planning factor to the meta and that is a good thing.
Of course, all of the above is just Theorymoning, since I won't be able to play the meta for a week or 2. It might be different in practice.
And still from Theorymon perspective, the move might break Basculegion when it's released, since the Mon is not as one dimensional, it's more powerful and has a second Stab. In that case, the logical step would be banning Basculegion, unless Last Respect is already banned before it being released.
I agree with FlutterMane and Iceweasel being broken and quickbanworthy.
I don't really get the agitation about houndstone, there have been mons with absourdly strong moves before (regieleki, regidraco,...), that all suffered the same dilemma: They are only good in very specific scenarios, since usually, immunities shut them down. Terrathingy actually helps with this, because you don't even have to run a normal type, but just have one mon that can Terra into normal to completly stop it. Which brings me to my next point.
Please don't ban Terra until the most broken mons are gone. It's a really interessting mechanic. People arguing about it tend to forget that you can only use it once in a battle, on one single mon. The one to use it first is usualy at a disadvantage if the mon doesn't ouright sweep. You can only adjust to the opposing team once, and if the opponwnt can adjust to your adjustment accordingly thats bad news for you. It only feels so Bad offensively because the meta is super aggressive right now (broken sweepers + new toy syndrome). But there are ways to scout, e.g. protect. (On a side note: I feel like wish+protect and Wish Pass will have a Renaissance this gen. Wish still has 16 pp).
Defensively, Terra gives you access to key immunities without restricting the mons you use. Your team is weak to fast electrics, but you don't want to change the structure too much? Just use Terratype Ground on one of your mons so you can adjust if you run into an electric type! Up to now, players only choose individual Terra types for each mon to create sweeping oppurtunities, but in the long run, balance team will have to coordinate the Terra types of all members to cover more threats. This adds a whole new dimension to team building!
I really hope the broken offensive mons will be banned while the Terra mechanic stays long enough to discover its great strategical potential besides "haha surprise kill with unsuspected terra blast type, now I win because you lack a defensive backbone in your team".
Honestly, I do not think shed tail is that broken.
Orthworm is the better user of shed tail, but it will rarely get the opportunity to get it off more than once unless you base your entire play on doing so, but that obviously comes with its limitations.
Cyclizar with regenerator does get more chances to use the move, however, the pokemon itself is pretty weak, so if it is not faster than the opponent it often gets hit for more than 50% and cannot set up the sub. Furthermore, if it is faster that means that the mon that switches in behind the sub takes the attack, which oftentimes means the sub is broken.
Another thing to consider is that the best abusers of the sub, when it is actually successful in staying intact after the switch-in, are mostly broken pokemon that could be ban worthy by themselves like the ice guy, flutter mane, palafin, and iron valiant.
I believe that shed tail could be a play style similar to trick room, where you have to base your whole team around it and it is situational, but the times you pull it off it can do some good work. Just like trick room it can make some pokemon that might not be good enough otherwise viable on such a team after the broken mons are banned. Overall I don't think it's ban worthy, but it may need to be revisited in the future when the meta settles.
If I had my way, I'd ban same-type-tera and go from there. This is because using tera for a different type is really damn fun! It's a great gimmick with tons of considerations in both team building and in battle. Meanwhile super-stab is just "click the broken move button repeatedly", turning every offensive Pokemon into their own version of Dracovish. I'd love to keep tera in the meta since it's great fun to play as, but then you sweep another person with tera steel Scizor and you think "this is dumb".
wanted to say i totally agree, most of the silly stuff with tera is just the adaptability spam and im very happy with how much closer to balanced it feels than i expected. banning same type also pushes the balance between offensive and defensive reward for terra a lot closer to equal than it is right now. gaining third stab is great but things like Fairy Avalugg for example make completely new mons out of bulky dudes. hope this line of thinking is taken into account seriously when we move towards taking action on terra.
Something that I think is a huge and notable change in Gen 9 compared to previous Gens is the nerf to defensive Pokemon in general. Previously top tier Pokemon, like Corviknight, cannot run the risk to PP stall because Corviknight itself runs low on PP. And Corviknight has it easy in comparison to others. Toxapex was gutted hard with nerfs to Regenerator, PP and lack of Scald. Lots of mons lost hazards. Blissey is nowhere to be scene atm losing it's previous ability to gain momentum, lack of PP and loss of Toxic. This not to mention the insanely strong, fast and flexible Pokemon we got. This is a stark contrast from previous generations.
Ok, we all knew this coming into the generation. But this leaves me to wonder how this will effect tiering policy. I don't believe the OU Council are dumb by any means and I don't even necessarily disagree with their On The Radar picks. But my genuine question is how will the difference in the current most viable playstyles (Offense and Hyper Offense) factor into their tiering decisions?
It seems like in years prior, many bans were made to Pokemon who could circumvent their checks while still running viable offensive sets. For instance in Gen 6, Hoopa-Unbound was banned in large part due to how it destroyed most of it's otherwise counter such as Clefable with Gunk Shot, Mega-Scizor with HP Fire, Tyranitar with Focus Blast. Aegislash was known for running Sub/Toxic to counter niche picks like Mandibuzz. Kyurem with Sub/Roost/Freeze Dry/Earth Power hit everything that wasn't Blissey. These bans were to Pokemon that could beat many of their defensive counters and constrict teambuilding to an unhealthy degree.
I guess this is to say what will get banned in a hyper offense meta? How will this not result in broken checking broken? Especially when many Pokemon not On The Radar absolutely eat fat cores. This is unlike any other OU before it and I'm excited and hopeful for Terastal mechanics. I just think that maybe the way we evaluate what's broken might have to change.
I have a general question for those that are highly ranked in the ladder at the moment: what are some overrated and underrated Pokémons in the current (extremely) early stage of meta?
Tera hat game: To me, we are on the point that the sides of "how we can make this thing more broken" can now come to the agreement that its broken, i though it would be a third type (some friend explained to me that way) and in reality is a total type change, I honeslty thing this is hidden power with extra steps, especially since terrablast shits on HP any day of the week, Im not gonna say "suspect this" because i think we have not truly seen how broken this thing really is, its like macaroni and glue art, just slowly, one piece at a time
Broken, quickban, next
is broken, mainly because your on lower defense and on speed creep wars with ghost wuaifu, I think any set can be viable and dont get me started on hail my man, why is this mon so broken, at least it doesnt learn Knock Off, that would´ve been hilarious
and Last Respects, to me this mon is a one trick pony, he enters, click banded attack and then you pray that the opponent doesnt have a normal type or something that can just safely pick it, now, dont get me wrong, remember the Beat Up + Last Respect strats i was cooking? although i dont have the perfect team, its really easy to set up on a metagame where you only need to click moves and hope thats enough. I wouldnt call action on it at least untill Basculigeon appears and now you have to candidates for an endgame clean option
I havent fought against him yet so i cant say anything, sorry
The moment he enters, he is doing DD, and something drops before getting the chance to kill him, especially if he gets something like a sub or screens, with that being said, I dont feel he is that broken, its like a mix beetween a Hydragon and a Salamance, both in desing and gameplay, and theres like a morbilion sweepers going around, so maybe at the end of the day he is just being a beneficeary of the caous
He is fun, i like walmart non mega Gallade, I have fought against him and used him and i dont think he is broken, his bulk is meh, can be easily revenge killed or scared, will run stabs + poison move/SD + Ghost move, and since his ability is quark drive, if your not using the booster item, it means your using Pincurchin, and Pincurchin fucking sucks
is basically another one trick pony, one thing ive been experimenting is instead of making him just the suicide shed scarfer, making a bit bulkier so that i can have more options to set up in the course of a longer battle, and it helps alot, his move pool is not either, i was using acrobatics with sitrus berry but changed to power whip with leftovers to surprise pick Azu, the clods and the sires and its cool, also despite sounding laughable, if your not in a healthy enough posicion to use shed tail, use U-turn, to still have some offensive momentum, some chip, and you basically regen, its a bit cheesy but try it, its fun. As for broken material, its kinda frustrating since your basically allowing the monsters of the tier to run rampid, one mistake of yours and now that Moon is with 2DDs, behind a sub, and screens, i dont think he is broken by himself but if every Set up sweeper can just use him as a romantic partner to sweep, perhaps i would be better to just let him go
Cyclizar @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 80 Def / 80 SpD / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shed Tail
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
max health and some bulk to make him last a bit long, 88 speed hits 300, so that means i shit on Azu, the rest on bulk and damage, also instead of power whip you can like, use some of his other moves to bait in something, because most people will belive that your just gonna shed tail away
Okay so my opinion on Flutter Mane and weasel have changed after having gone through more arguments and played some more. They can be dealt with but 1) take way too much effort to do so, 2) take atleast some mons with them before you can ko them and 3) they do that stuff way too easily
Wouldn't have a problem with a quickban on these two personally
Palafin I am still not convinced though. Positioning is more important than ever and dolphin is hard to position due to its activation condition. The fact that switching is usually expensive due to hazard stacking doesn't help. It's very good now but I wouldn't be surprised if its place in the meta drops later on, even with tera
Hey mods can we please condense the SV OU discussion to one thread or subforum? Lotta newbie players are getting lost. Is there any reason to split the playerbase and discussion into two places? I was wondering why this thread seemed so short for a new generation of OU.
One cool Pokémon in this meta I'm surprised not to see any mention of is Indeedee. It ticks the obligatory ghost immunity box, for starters, but the coolest thing it brings is psychic terrain. Priority is *everywhere* right now, with many mons relying on it for a STAB or important coverage. Being able to just shut that down entirely is really nice and can completely flip a lot of matchups.
It also gets a few cool support moves like Healing Wish, which is really nice to restore whatever broken Pokémon matches up with your opponent's team best. Can't really touch steels with its natural moveset, but Tera Blast is only a 10bp drop over Hyper Voice and allows you to pack an emergency fire or fighting nuke in your back pocket.
Not convinced anything other than Flutter Mane and maybe iceleopard is unambiguously broken right now. Defensive teamstyles are always bad in week one metas because predictability of opponents is so low, so it's hard to conclude anything meaningful - but I stand by my earlier prediction that stall is far from dead.
Suspect res moves may be a useful crutch for it when they're working - one time lure and surprise KO's are traditionally kind of an achilles heel, so being able to bring back a dead Pokémon if you can find the space ought to be really nice.
Hey mods can we please condense the SV OU discussion to one thread or subforum? Lotta newbie players are getting lost. Is there any reason to split the playerbase and discussion into two places? I was wondering why this thread seemed so short for a new generation of OU.
Yeah, I'd also expect as time goes on and which relevant speed tiers are present, you'd invest less into speed to try and get either more bulk/damage out of the mon. I've been running it with max attack and it hits decently well, but I'd wonder if a spdef tank is the role it will likely end up playing.
Cyclizar is... not passing 50% subs, but 25% ones. If that's not a bug with Showdown, then it's quite a bit worse than I expected, though it's still a very obnoxious mon. I'll hold off on making further comments on Cyclizar until I get confirmation that it's working as intended, or Showdown fixes it.
This mon is, uh, way worse than I expected. Defog is basically nonexistent except on Corv, and all the common spinners can OHKO it on the switch. It's still a decent Scarfer though, albeit not a top-tier one. Air Balloon can be used as well, but it doesn't make it a reliable switch to the Paradonphans, so eh.
Speaking of those, I initially dismissed Great Tusk as a shitmon due to a seemingly unimpressive typing combination. I was completely wrong, this thing is a beast. It fills so many roles in a single slot. It checks mons such as Kingambit, breaks walls such as Clodsire, spins hazards away and sweeps the whole tier after. It's really quite surprising how useful it is.
This is another mon that I dismissed as a shitmon who turned out to be pretty decent. Priority is a hot commodity right now, and this mon brings Tinted Lens-boosted Sucker Punches and First Impressions to the table, which don't get blocked by a Chien-Pao randomly turning into a Fairy-type. It's also deceptively bulky, being capable of directly switching into the aforementioned Chien-Pao if needed.
I have a general question for those that are highly ranked in the ladder at the moment: what are some overrated and underrated Pokémons in the current (extremely) early stage of meta?
i know the council wants to try and normalize tera being part of the meta, but i think it would be worth looking into it as a suspect test soon (as in like a few weeks or so). while i think flutter mane and chien-pao are pretty no brainer quickbans, every other potentially broken mon seems to hinge on tera a decent bit for its viability. roaring moon and palafin are the biggest examples in my mind, i think without tera they become a good bit more reasonable and easier to check. while i think tera is cool and would be nice to have such a fun mechanic as part of the meta, the way it allows basically any mon to tech to beat its checks will seriously affect how balancing goes moving forward imo.
also, i'm not sure whether or not last respects is broken or not. the ceiling is obviously insane but playing with it i often felt like i really wished my team had a 6th member lol. i'm pretty crap at playing and its possible i should try and get more value out of the move when it's at 100-200 bp, but i think the fact that it's a total shitmon before a good chunk of your team is gone does make it feel like a bit of a cheese strat. it reminds me of regieleki in the sense that while you could keep one in the back for the whole game and sweep when the ground type is eventually dead, you're usually better off just playing 6 mons who are consistently good and win anyways. that's how i see it, at least. admittedly i haven't played a ton of ladder yet cause flutter mane is so ridiculously annoying lol
I do not know exactly how it works or how it is intended to, so not going to comment on the technical stuff. It’s early, so just be patient and any potential issues will be worked out
To make this post more relevant to discussion, anyone been using Sandy Shocks? It’s been a couple of my teams lately and it can put in some good work. Electric / Ground is really nice, SR and Spikes, Volt Switch and a fairly fine spread of stats including a cheeky 101 base speed. Really helps dismantle some of the cores I’ve seen that rely on Corviknight or Slowking to check Ground-types. Its overshadowed for sure but if some of the things on the Radar start falling off I think it could make a fine offensive pivot.
Yea I closed that to make the point more clear. It’s in a older generation subforum, too, but it being closed and this hyperlinked will drive the point home to those less familiar with forum structure
Something that I think is a huge and notable change in Gen 9 compared to previous Gens is the nerf to defensive Pokemon in general. Previously top tier Pokemon, like Corviknight, cannot run the risk to PP stall because Corviknight itself runs low on PP. And Corviknight has it easy in comparison to others. Toxapex was gutted hard with nerfs to Regenerator, PP and lack of Scald. Lots of mons lost hazards. Blissey is nowhere to be scene atm losing it's previous ability to gain momentum, lack of PP and loss of Toxic. This not to mention the insanely strong, fast and flexible Pokemon we got. This is a stark contrast from previous generations.
Ok, we all knew this coming into the generation. But this leaves me to wonder how this will effect tiering policy. I don't believe the OU Council are dumb by any means and I don't even necessarily disagree with their On The Radar picks. But my genuine question is how will the difference in the current most viable playstyles (Offense and Hyper Offense) factor into their tiering decisions?
It seems like in years prior, many bans were made to Pokemon who could circumvent their checks while still running viable offensive sets. For instance in Gen 6, Hoopa-Unbound was banned in large part due to how it destroyed most of it's otherwise counter such as Clefable with Gunk Shot, Mega-Scizor with HP Fire, Tyranitar with Focus Blast. Aegislash was known for running Sub/Toxic to counter niche picks like Mandibuzz. Kyurem with Sub/Roost/Freeze Dry/Earth Power hit everything that wasn't Blissey. These bans were to Pokemon that could beat many of their defensive counters and constrict teambuilding to an unhealthy degree.
I guess this is to say what will get banned in a hyper offense meta? How will this not result in broken checking broken? Especially when many Pokemon not On The Radar absolutely eat fat cores. This is unlike any other OU before it and I'm excited and hopeful for Terastal mechanics. I just think that maybe the way we evaluate what's broken might have to change.
This is my take. It is obvious that Gamefreak does not share Smogon's philosophy regarding what constitutes a desirable metagame, and there has been a very obvious attempt at pushing the game towards offensive play. Between the nerfs to almost every defensive strategy imaginable, the increasing power creep, and the rise of Pokemon that punish passivity hard (Rage First, Zero to Hero, Last Resort, etc), and the continued insistence on short 3vs3 battle matchmaking, it is evident that GF does not want the game to be played the way we previously tried to make it playable. GF obviously does not intend for SV to support 'a healthy mixture of viable playstyles.' They intend for SV to be about fast, powerful mons killing or being killed.
Ultimately, Gamefreak designs the game, and their design philosophy is going to shine through no matter how much banning we do. Inevitable DLC is coming, and games are releasing at decreasing intervals. If we are attached to our favoured playstyles, the metas of previous generations haven't gone anywhere just because we don't like this one.
Disclaimer: I'm primarily a Ubers player and I skipped over Gen 8's meta entirely. I play OU weird.
Anyway, regarding Houndstone, I've mostly been observing matches, but I've gotten a decent amount of rounds in with the thing. I'm running Banded Fairy Tera with Play Rough to deal with RMs and Cyclizars, so it's a little different from the standard Tera Fighting set.
I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but Garganacl is also an effective check against Houndstone. Purifying Salt's Ghost resist works surprisingly well against 250-300 BP Houndstone, and if 'nacl can get the Salt Cure chip in, it's pretty easy to outlast Houndstone. Another common check to Tera Fairy would be Bullet Punch, which wears Houndstone down a fair bit.
I've gotten some use out of pulling the dog out mid-match instead of waiting until the very end. Using slow pivots like Scizor since Houndstone can't take a hit. Sand Rush boosted Choice Band moves still pack a punch, and Houndstone's a solid counter to FM (as mentioned before in...one of these OU threads, Shadow Sneak OHKOs). Play Rough works really well on this dog, I think.
Personally, I'd hate to see Last Respects get banned right now since Houndstone's other Ghost STABs are much more situational (Shadow Sneak, Phantom Force), but I think it may have to go when Basculegion comes into play. We'll see how a LR-less Houndstone does in lower tiers, I suppose!
EDIT: Pointed out the thread but someone else already mentioned it by the time this post sent, whoops
Okay so my opinion on Flutter Mane and weasel have changed after having gone through more arguments and played some more. They can be dealt with but 1) take way too much effort to do so, 2) take atleast some mons with them before you can ko them and 3) they do that stuff way too easily
Wouldn't have a problem with a quickban on these two personally
I agree, There are some answers to both flutter and chien pao but they feel either too specific, or require a tera slot. A lot of mons that on paper could answer these can not reliable handle them when hazards are in play, or lack longevity. Not to mention that both Flutter and Chien Pao can just tera into a different type and they now resist your revengekiller. And yeah, revengekilling is the most reliable way to deal with them because they almost force a KO when they enter the field.
After reading the "on the radar" post I'm glad to see tera is being waited on to settle. I think it brings a lot of good to defensive play in this meta game (something that is lacking otherwise) and adds a lotttt of creativity that I think should be experienced in a larger sample size first. I think people have been freaking out about its power mainly on pokemon that seem banworthy regardless of it; not every tera user can fire off insane turbo jet punches or super shadow balls off base 135 SpA. Im glad the decision to remove the mons first is what council seems to be aiming for.
As for the mons themselves, while all of them scary, my game-by-game experience and from watching others play, made Flutter and Palafin seem completely unstoppable. I dont see a healthy workaround for these mons, initially I thought doing defensive tera's to bait them out would be ideal, but stuff like sub Flutter mane or BU Palafin immediately killed any hopes for those.
Roar Moon and Valiant are obviously strong but also seemingly manageable so far, but that could also be due to the aforementioned demons helping keep them down. Remains a matter of seeing how they function after bans.
Chien-pao is quite confusing because it seems to be a recipe for the strongest mon ever but I've yet to see it do anything truly outrageous like Palafin and Flutter. Maybe we overhyped it, or maybe people just haven't start using it properly yet (likely the latter).
Idk what to say on last respects and shed tail. They are strong moves but the mons that get them are kind of ass. Tera fighting Houndstone is quite annoying though, but it becomes pretty obvious when they haven't tera'd until their last mon Houndstone comes out. However, even knowing its coming doesn't make it any easier to handle.
A mon I would like to be added to the radar is Iron Bundle. This mon is quite vile, and I think the only things holding it back are, well, these other broken guys mentioned above. I could see it quickly becoming an issue later on.
TL:DR of my thoughts: QB Flutter and Palafin, slowly look at and test the rest.
After reading the "on the radar" post I'm glad to see tera is being waited on to settle. I think it brings a lot of good to defensive play in this meta game (something that is lacking otherwise) and adds a lotttt of creativity that I think should be experienced in a larger sample size first. I think people have been freaking out about its power mainly on pokemon that seem banworthy regardless of it; not every tera user can fire off insane turbo jet punches or super shadow balls off base 135 SpA. Im glad the decision to remove the mons first is what council seems to be aiming for.
As for the mons themselves, while all of them scary, my game-by-game experience and from watching others play, made Flutter and Palafin seem completely unstoppable. I dont see a healthy workaround for these mons, initially I thought doing defensive tera's to bait them out would be ideal, but stuff like sub Flutter mane or BU Palafin immediately killed any hopes for those.
Roar Moon and Valiant are obviously strong but also seemingly manageable so far, but that could also be due to the aforementioned demons helping keep them down. Remains a matter of seeing how they function after bans.
Chien-pao is quite confusing because it seems to be a recipe for the strongest mon ever but I've yet to see it do anything truly outrageous like Palafin and Flutter. Maybe we overhyped it, or maybe people just haven't start using it properly yet (likely the latter).
Idk what to say on last respects and shed tail. They are strong moves but the mons that get them are kind of ass. Tera fighting Houndstone is quite annoying though, but it becomes pretty obvious when they haven't tera'd until their last mon Houndstone comes out. However, even knowing its coming doesn't make it any easier to handle.
A mon I would like to be added to the radar is Iron Bundle. This mon is quite vile, and I think the only things holding it back are, well, these other broken guys mentioned above. I could see it quickly becoming an issue later on.
TL:DR of my thoughts: QB Flutter and Palafin, slowly look at and test the rest.
I don't think Palafin needs to be quickbanned. It's definitely a future potential ban candidate but it got a decent amount of counterplay available imo, and it doesn't bypass them too well
what do people think about ting-lu atm? a lot of people seemed to think it was uber worthy before sv ou was implemented in showdown but since then i haven't really seen it discussed or used on ladder at all. i'm curious if anyone's seen success with it, i've thought about putting it on some teams but it seems pretty passive and slow on top of having weaknesses to a lot of top threats out there atm. might be good when the meta stabilizes but only time will tell i suppose.
Broken, quickban, next
is broken, mainly because your on lower defense and on speed creep wars with ghost wuaifu, I think any set can be viable and dont get me started on hail my man, why is this mon so broken, at least it doesnt learn Knock Off, that would´ve been hilarious
and Last Respects, to me this mon is a one trick pony, he enters, click banded attack and then you pray that the opponent doesnt have a normal type or something that can just safely pick it, now, dont get me wrong, remember the Beat Up + Last Respect strats i was cooking? although i dont have the perfect team, its really easy to set up on a metagame where you only need to click moves and hope thats enough. I wouldnt call action on it at least untill Basculigeon appears and now you have to candidates for an endgame clean option
I havent fought against him yet so i cant say anything, sorry
The moment he enters, he is doing DD, and something drops before getting the chance to kill him, especially if he gets something like a sub or screens, with that being said, I dont feel he is that broken, its like a mix beetween a Hydragon and a Salamance, both in desing and gameplay, and theres like a morbilion sweepers going around, so maybe at the end of the day he is just being a beneficeary of the caous
He is fun, i like walmart non mega Gallade, I have fought against him and used him and i dont think he is broken, his bulk is meh, can be easily revenge killed or scared, will run stabs + poison move/SD + Ghost move, and since his ability is quark drive, if your not using the booster item, it means your using Pincurchin, and Pincurchin fucking sucks
is basically another one trick pony, one thing ive been experimenting is instead of making him just the suicide shed scarfer, making a bit bulkier so that i can have more options to set up in the course of a longer battle, and it helps alot, his move pool is not either, i was using acrobatics with sitrus berry but changed to power whip with leftovers to surprise pick Azu, the clods and the sires and its cool, also despite sounding laughable, if your not in a healthy enough posicion to use shed tail, use U-turn, to still have some offensive momentum, some chip, and you basically regen, its a bit cheesy but try it, its fun. As for broken material, its kinda frustrating since your basically allowing the monsters of the tier to run rampid, one mistake of yours and now that Moon is with 2DDs, behind a sub, and screens, i dont think he is broken by himself but if every Set up sweeper can just use him as a romantic partner to sweep, perhaps i would be better to just let him go
