I like mag, and I think if tera was gone it would be healthier and back to matchup fish like in gen 7 but shift gear + tera makes it dumb. Sad cause it's great for checking and spikes.
I think light clay is worth looking into further down as the discussion does have merit. And the setters, (i think its just Dragapult rn) unlike weather are usually solid mons outside the playstyle and can set screens multiple times. My main problem with action against it is that it seems like it would heavily cripple ho, but it's the one playstyle that hasn't ever really changed much through these last few gens. At most it would get mons taken away but it's always bounced back no problem.
And sneasler is over-rated imo, rocky helm corv is still usable, really not seeing the hype behind it, but maybe I've been lucky in who im facing not using it well. At least stop using it with air balloon, that set is hot garbage. Further down it could be a problem, but right now there's bigger issues like mag, cp, urshifu-R, and crowned zam (last one is debatable).
On the bright note, meta is actually fun, even with my issues with Tera, I'm enjoying it. Thank you council for actually trying out some of the mons. Looking forward to how meta develops further.
I think light clay is worth looking into further down as the discussion does have merit. And the setters, (i think its just Dragapult rn) unlike weather are usually solid mons outside the playstyle and can set screens multiple times. My main problem with action against it is that it seems like it would heavily cripple ho, but it's the one playstyle that hasn't ever really changed much through these last few gens. At most it would get mons taken away but it's always bounced back no problem.
And sneasler is over-rated imo, rocky helm corv is still usable, really not seeing the hype behind it, but maybe I've been lucky in who im facing not using it well. At least stop using it with air balloon, that set is hot garbage. Further down it could be a problem, but right now there's bigger issues like mag, cp, urshifu-R, and crowned zam (last one is debatable).
On the bright note, meta is actually fun, even with my issues with Tera, I'm enjoying it. Thank you council for actually trying out some of the mons. Looking forward to how meta develops further.
- uninvested Ice Fang is a 4hko on defensive landorus 96% of the time, all while lando can bounce in and out if it so desires and has actual (minor) healing with leftovers. If you're not running ice fang, good luck. EQ does about 35 from lando at +2 on zama, which isn't damage you can really be affording to take. Helmet Lando also chips it even further since every move in Zama's arsenal is contact.
- Ice Fang 4HKOs, no other move comes close. Zap also has reliable recovery and its it on the special side, completely subverting any boosts it may have accumulated. Zama pretty much can't beat Zapdos regardless of what it runs, and every hit it tries runs the risk of static screwing it over completely.
- needs Crunch for a 3hko and if you don't have it you're unable to do much of anything to it while it gets to click glowking buttons on you with little fear. If you do have crunch, it can pivot out and heal back up, and it means you're probably missing something else.
- this one's a bit complicated. Bulky tusk is a pretty solid check, especially if Zama's expended Dauntless Shield and swapped out, although it doesn't do a whole lot of damage in return. Offensive can hit it really hard on setup turns but is capable of being KO'd back by body press after multiple boosts. It's a decent soft check if nothing else but shouldn't be your only option. If you are tera fairy on zama you can set up on tusk much more easily, but making fairy your tera type makes you lose to several other things.
- if you're not running behemoth bash you can't touch valiant for any meaningful damage without several turns of boosting, and behemoth bash is generally the least useful move that you still might need. Valiant also does a lot back on the special side and can force zama out a few times, even though it, like zama, has no recovery, making it strictly an offensive check. You can Tera Steel to shore up the moonblast issue, but then you have a much harder time vs other grounds in the tier.
- Ice Fang is a 3hko and forces dragonite to roost, but if you're not running Ice Fang you can only 3hko it with a +6 body press, all while dnite has opportunities to boost alongside you.
- +3 body press is a 2hko 75% of the time, but if you've already expended your dauntless shield you're gonna need multiple turns to boost. none of zama's other coverage moves do anything of note, and each hit runs the risk of proccing flame body and ruining you on the spot. Fiery Dance is a 3hko at worst even unboosted, and you will be giving volc free turns in any situation but the absolute best for you.
- you should always be running crunch imo but including this here just because you hard lose to him if you don't have it. He even has reliable recovery!
- sure you get psychic fangs and/or wild charge but have you seen how many different moves I've already listed? Neither of those are terribly worth it on IronPress crowned, especially wild charge. Haze means zama pretty much does nothing unless you're running like, the 6th best move for this one mon.
- 1v1s you unless you have behemoth bash, although if you're tera steel it'll take a really long time for it to do that.
- see above.
- behemoth bash and psychic fangs both can 3hko, but you will be taking helmet chip or risking a spore to do it. You can run Substitute to get around Spore, but then you're probably missing Behemoth Bash or Psychic Fangs and you two will kind of just enter a stalemate. If Zama's already tera'd into not steel for whatever reason you can also get clear smogged, which is irritating.
- did you forget we had 3 unaware mons? unaware also ignores the defense boosts from zama so body press is always a clean 3hko. There's nothing Zama can do here, even wild charge is a 5hko and not a good move to run overall.
- Crunch 3hkos spd dirge but teraing your dirge fixes that, and since it has unaware it doesn't care about body press even if it's not immune to it. Torch Song also ruins zama - it even bypasses substitute!
- this guy's such a sleeper pick right now. substitute and ice fang can ease this matchup, although if clodsire goes tera water there's not much you can do. Clod can theoretically also slot yawn over toxic, which bypasses substitute and forces zama to switch out repeatedly.
- takes negligible damage from anything barring behemoth bash (but also doesn't do a whole lot back, so don't rely on this)
