Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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oreofestar said:
Y'all gotta stop with the BST argument as if there's not more to a pokemon. Especially when shit like 680 BST Hoopa is in the game and there's plenty of pokemon being talked about being way more broken than it.
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Yeah for real, like people forget Hoopa-Unbound was essentially the second cover legendary that has been OU legalized, not Zamazenta. (It’s only not a cover legend by technicality, the fucker still has 680 BST with a free item slot.) I’m still not even convinced Zam-H is broken to begin with tbh, though I think Zam-C is a very unhealthy matchup fish that steamrolls teams which don’t go well out of their way to prepare for it in excess.
 
Bloody hell leki needs to get banned. With tera ice tera blast Regular checks like lando and tusk get 1 tapped, with boots it's almost impossible to wear down and becomes the most insane offensive pivot ever. Its impossible to play around and needs to go. I've found mag and zam quit easy to manage tho, and I do belive that vested mag is the best mag by alot.
 
I’ve won quite a few games against high ELO players who wouldn’t hand over wins this easily in the past, because they haven’t gotten used to eleki meta yet and how to play against it haha.

non eleki meta: you run ID + crunch on your body press zamazenta crowned

eleki meta: you run agility on your body press zamazenta crowned.

that said.. I got embarrassingly smoked by Highv0ltag3 and a trick room team.. lol
 
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DO NOT TOUCH URSALUNA BEFORE BANNING MAGEARNA FFS.
Without Magearna Ursaluna is in the same situation as WW: broken mon that needs a specific team in order to harnest his full potential. TR teams without Magearna are incredibly weak against dark types for instance and they may be even more vulnerabilities to be found once you erase from the equation the obvious broken stuff.
People are really putting Ursaluna as more problematic than the Zazamentas or Watet Urshifu...
 
Something that I think personally is going under the radar is our good old gen 8 friend of torn-T plus Glowking regen core. It doesn't work quite the same as get 8 cause torn has lost a lot of utility, but glowking's gaining a pivot move almost makes up for that. I have been using mostly Plot 2 attacks torn with u-turn and its kinda crazy how much of the meta just can't come into a +2 hurricane, and tera flying hurricane can do some crazy things even to a resist
(Not a resist but close enough +2 252 SpA Tera Flying Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 214-254 (54.3 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
+2 252 SpA Tera Flying Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 188-222 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Even mag is kinda scared of it) Especially once eleki and mag get snapped out of the tier I think torn has a very threatening place in the meta
 
Ctann said:
Almost the (fast) busted Pokémon’s are handled by eleki to some degree.

zamazentas: outsped, chipped with volt switch into your lando, until they’re in KO range. Rarely run Tera ground

magearna: you can bait out the Tera ground, chipped by volt switch into your ground/fire type such as ursaluna or heatran. Grounds should carry coverage for flying Tera, whilst fires should have a way to address Tera water. Although both those Tera’s are revengeable by eleki if she decides to Tera (the coverage is to get her to sub 70%)

enamorous: outsped and KOd from a high HP threshold. Can bait out the Tera ground, can just Tera ice Terablast for a safe bet

chien pao: technically not handled too well, due to priority. This is the exception

urshifu-R: if it isn’t packing Aqua jet it’s easily dealt with. That said, I think every urshifu is packing Aqua jet in this meta.

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What it can’t handle:

jolly or bulky ursaluna are both brutal hitters. I’m packing balloon gholdengo as a partner on the current team in use, usually ursaluna hates hazards, so hazards + helmets on regenerators go far. Whilst it hits disgustingly hard, it’s limited by just how many Pokémon’s are immune to its moves and/or force it out, and force it to come back into hazards. 50% ursaluna can be dealt with for most teams, 100% is near impossible without correct 50/50 calls.

by the way. I know no one reads these walls of text, here’s some replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1874623480-vfrgojpj6jgpt7kzgvg7ycrmukjgswepw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1874751863-7z8a396ryazestczzlmjmbp5i28qe6gpw
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I find it interesting that you didn't Tera Regieleki either game and it still managed to be quite effective.

Also glad I'm not the only one using Protect Lando.
 
LandorusTBeatsGreatTusk said:
DO NOT TOUCH URSALUNA BEFORE BANNING MAGEARNA FFS.
Without Magearna Ursaluna is in the same situation as WW: broken mon that needs a specific team in order to harnest his full potential. TR teams without Magearna are incredibly weak against dark types for instance and they may be even more vulnerabilities to be found once you erase from the equation the obvious broken stuff.
People are really putting Ursaluna as more problematic than the Zazamentas or Watet Urshifu...
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ursaluna is super interesting, I’m running max speed , but it has great bulky sets too. Maybe it’s due to the extreme offensive power of OU right now, but it hasn’t felt overbearing yet. This is despite it OHKOing everything. I think it’s because it hates hazards and doesn’t like running HDB (unless someone discovers a great HDB set).

long term it might be Ubers, in the current meta it’s a fun check to Mag.

serious fuck mag, I’m running multiple lures, grounds and/or fires wherever possible.
 
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Opinions on SamurottH?

I love how he consistently threatens all rapid spin/defog users (Even Corvinight thanks to the 50% RS defense drop that leads to a 2hko).
And his unimpressive attack stats is a great deal compensated with Sharpness as he can OHKO Hoopa with RS after one layer of spikes.
And of course setting up spikes while doing 40% chip damage is as satisfying as game changing. You never waste a turn with him.
 
Ctann said:
Almost the (fast) busted Pokémon’s are handled by eleki to some degree.

zamazentas: outsped, chipped with volt switch into your lando, until they’re in KO range. Rarely run Tera ground

magearna: you can bait out the Tera ground, chipped by volt switch into your ground/fire type such as ursaluna or heatran. Grounds should carry coverage for flying Tera, whilst fires should have a way to address Tera water. Although both those Tera’s are revengeable by eleki if she decides to Tera (the coverage is to get her to sub 70%)

enamorous: outsped and KOd from a high HP threshold. Can bait out the Tera ground, can just Tera ice Terablast for a safe bet

chien pao: technically not handled too well, due to priority. This is the exception

urshifu-R: if it isn’t packing Aqua jet it’s easily dealt with. That said, I think every urshifu is packing Aqua jet in this meta.

-

What it can’t handle:

jolly or bulky ursaluna are both brutal hitters. I’m packing balloon gholdengo as a partner on the current team in use, usually ursaluna hates hazards, so hazards + helmets on regenerators go far. Whilst it hits disgustingly hard, it’s limited by just how many Pokémon’s are immune to its moves and/or force it out, and force it to come back into hazards. 50% ursaluna can be dealt with for most teams, 100% is near impossible without correct 50/50 calls.

by the way. I know no one reads these walls of text, here’s some replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1874623480-vfrgojpj6jgpt7kzgvg7ycrmukjgswepw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1874751863-7z8a396ryazestczzlmjmbp5i28qe6gpw
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scarf enam :)
 
Magcargo said:
I find it interesting that you didn't Tera Regieleki either game and it still managed to be quite effective.

Also glad I'm not the only one using Protect Lando.
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Your protect lando was a great idea and meta asf.

to elaborate:
  1. knock off is rarer
  2. Great tusk is (currently) nowhere to be seen
  3. Other lando can’t do much back
  4. You scout choice sets and/or see if someone Tera’s
Just be weary of setup of course.
 
TheTraininator said:
Yeah for real, like people forget Hoopa-Unbound was essentially the second cover legendary that has been OU legalized, not Zamazenta. (It’s only not a cover legend by technicality, the fucker still has 680 BST with a free item slot.) I’m still not even convinced Zam-H is broken to begin with tbh, though I think Zam-C is a very unhealthy matchup fish that steamrolls teams which don’t go well out of their way to prepare for it in excess.
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Third*. Suicune was a cover legendary
 
termnal said:
Something that I think personally is going under the radar is our good old gen 8 friend of torn-T plus Glowking regen core. It doesn't work quite the same as get 8 cause torn has lost a lot of utility, but glowking's gaining a pivot move almost makes up for that. I have been using mostly Plot 2 attacks torn with u-turn and its kinda crazy how much of the meta just can't come into a +2 hurricane, and tera flying hurricane can do some crazy things even to a resist
(Not a resist but close enough +2 252 SpA Tera Flying Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 214-254 (54.3 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
+2 252 SpA Tera Flying Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 188-222 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Even mag is kinda scared of it) Especially once eleki and mag get snapped out of the tier I think torn has a very threatening place in the meta
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Tornadus doesn’t have space currently

wait until mag, eleki, CP and zamazenta crowned are gone, it will have space to perform.

Glowking will be good throughout, the fairy resist is sorely needed because enamorous is gonna be massive once the big 4 get banned, it’s also a switch into dire claw. Has a pivot move, overall great Pokémon
LandorusTBeatsGreatTusk said:
View attachment 521318
Opinions on SamurottH?

I love how he consistently threatens all rapid spin/defog users (Even Corvinight thanks to the 50% RS defense drop that leads to a 2hko).
And his unimpressive attack stats is a great deal compensated with Sharpness as he can OHKO Hoopa with RS after one layer of spikes.
And of course setting up spikes while doing 40% chip damage is as satisfying as game changing. You never waste a turn with him.
Click to expand...

First impressions on samurott are meta asf, the best way to deal with ursaluna, because you set 1-2 spikes and Luna will be at sub 80% by the time it finally comes in.

I’ve been experimenting with a HDB mixed set using hydro pump due to landorus.

it definitely lacks power, that’s its main flaw I reckon.
 
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Zamazenta-Crowned has not stood out to me. I think it will eventually… I mean just look at how awesome it should be when you take in the full picture of it, but right now I’ve found it to be remarkably inconsistent.

It feels like it lives-and-dies by the matchup strength of Body Press, and we have a lot of durable Fighting resists that allow for pivoting or progress to be made. Its other attacks haven’t moved the needle enough for me to really find it actionable and I feel like it’s just good, but clearly bearable, rather than a top-tier broken. I think once things settle and there’s less threat congestion, it may have more openings.

Definitely most focused on Regieleki right now with Magearna close behind.
 
LandorusTBeatsGreatTusk said:
View attachment 521318
Opinions on SamurottH?

I love how he consistently threatens all rapid spin/defog users (Even Corvinight thanks to the 50% RS defense drop that leads to a 2hko).
And his unimpressive attack stats is a great deal compensated with Sharpness as he can OHKO Hoopa with RS after one layer of spikes.
And of course setting up spikes while doing 40% chip damage is as satisfying as game changing. You never waste a turn with him.
Click to expand...
Set I'm using. Great Gholdengo, Heatran, SlowkingG, Skeledirge, etc. Check while keeping Great Tust, Glimmora, Corvenight, etc. At bay.
Only issue is Cinderace I found.

Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Razor Shell
- Sucker Punch
- Ceaseless Edge
- Grass Knot
 
LandorusTBeatsGreatTusk said:
View attachment 521318
Opinions on SamurottH?

I love how he consistently threatens all rapid spin/defog users (Even Corvinight thanks to the 50% RS defense drop that leads to a 2hko).
And his unimpressive attack stats is a great deal compensated with Sharpness as he can OHKO Hoopa with RS after one layer of spikes.
And of course setting up spikes while doing 40% chip damage is as satisfying as game changing. You never waste a turn with him.
Click to expand...
He's really good. Tera Dark Black Glasses Sucker Punch is amazing tool to kill Regieleki. I think Ceaseless edge is one of the most cracked moves in the game, which you will really notice when fighting slower Pokemon like Gholdengo. I think it could be broken later down the line but atm the meta is a bit too offensive.
 
1685540610398.png

My general thoughts after day 1 of laddering and watching games.

My main thoughts are :Magearna: and :Regieleki: need to go alongside :Zamazenta: and :Zamazenta-Crowned:. I think :Ursaluna: is fucking wild and should go but I wouldn't be opposed to it sticking around a little longer to give the benefit of doubt to those that think it'll be healthy for the tier, same with :Chien-Pao:, :Sneasler:, and god forsaken :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:, why did they give a mon that was already good SD. IDC, I'm tired, I was up all night, I'm moving it up to immoral tier.

I really like :Arcanine-Hisui: with webs and find it extremely fun but I'm probably a little bias and should knock it down a tier. Someone mentioned :Thundurus-Therian: tera steel yesterday, and I have to admit I really like it, though once Usain Bolt leaves, I'm not sure if I'll still use it. And on a final note, :Hoopa-Unbound: is definitely better than good in the long run, the things that are broken right now really bottleneck it imo, it'll definitely have a time to shine later on in the meta.

I'm so glad that pretty much everyone agrees and reached a general consenus as to what needs to be looked at so quickly. I think that shows signs of a very competitive and capable playerbase, and I can confidently say that moving forward, this meta will be a hell of a lot more interesting than pre-home.
 
For me though, I've found Regieleki and Magearna to be the most cancerous mons right now. Magearna is still Magearna and I hate this thing so much. How are humans in the pokemon world capable of creating pokemon that are a massive step up than natural pokemon for fucks sake. Hope this damn rabbit gets banned asap. But Leki, it's just so annoying. I just prefer to use good ol scarf Garchomp and tera into something. Leki goes ice, fails to kill me and I kill it

I also think Zamazenta Crowned is annoying. It's not that big of a threat but if you got the right matchup, damn is this thing so hard to deal with. IDBP is irritating af and this dog runs super fast. What dogfood did Gamefreak give this thing anyway

Lastly, not convinced yet fully but I think Weavile on steroids needs to go. This thing saved my ass so many times it's not even funny anymore. The fact that only Magearna is one of the only things that truly stands in its way probably says it oll. I suppose you could count Urshifu Water but Shifu's usually got better things to do
 
Ok, so SubSeed Electrode-H is pretty fun. Like this thing can force some switches which you can capitalize on with Thunder Wave and hazards. The Paralysis is also pretty nice for Ursulana, that thing is nasty with Paralysis support. Dunno if it's OU material, but it might be worth cooking with.

I also really like Clodsire in this meta. It just sits on Zama and you just drop hazards and stray Toxics. Regileki is really stupid I wasn't even running an optimal set and it still pulled a lot of weight.
 
LandorusTBeatsGreatTusk said:
View attachment 521318
Opinions on SamurottH?

I love how he consistently threatens all rapid spin/defog users (Even Corvinight thanks to the 50% RS defense drop that leads to a 2hko).
And his unimpressive attack stats is a great deal compensated with Sharpness as he can OHKO Hoopa with RS after one layer of spikes.
And of course setting up spikes while doing 40% chip damage is as satisfying as game changing. You never waste a turn with him.
Click to expand...
such a fire mon, im loving it currently and how he threatens basically everything + the free layer of spikes is the most useful thing ever on a offensive mon
 
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