Knock Off's initial power is precisely what makes it much superior to Kowtow Cleave in lategame scenarios if you keep the Kingambit fresh; it can get more favorable OHKO rolls on a number of threats such as Moltres (+2 Kowtow has a chance of missing a OHKO on Moltres even with 5 allies fainted, and can only score one with four allies fainted in the first place. Knock Off can potentially score a OHKO already with 2 allies fainted and can guarantee it at 4).
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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What other moves do y'all think are coming back?
If we're talking learning toxic only via TM and not through level up/breeding
Mew
That's basically it
If scald is back, its probably going to get severely limited since scald was 100% intentionally nerfed
Garchomp and Rillaboom eating good though from the returning scale shot and grassy glide tms!
If we get knock off/defog back with gen 8 compatibility for old pokemon, that would be huge as tornadus-t would be genuinely really good again and lando would be able to compete with tusk as a utility mon.
Garchomp, Rillaboom, Torn-T and Lando-T, and possibly weavile are major winners from this dlc if knock off, triple Axel (If it doesn't stay cut.), grassy glide, and knock off/defog return en masse like they were in gen 8.
Garchomp and Rillaboom eating good though from the returning scale shot and grassy glide tms!
If we get knock off/defog back with gen 8 compatibility for old pokemon, that would be huge as tornadus-t would be genuinely really good again and lando would be able to compete with tusk as a utility mon.
Garchomp, Rillaboom, Torn-T and Lando-T, and possibly weavile are major winners from this dlc if knock off, triple Axel (If it doesn't stay cut.), grassy glide, and knock off/defog return en masse like they were in gen 8.
Personally I hope more things get knock off (for metagames sake)
But I'm more interested in how you access them. In sv, you need like idk some Druddigon Scales and Cinccino Fur to get the move Faint Attack, but how would go about getting these added TMs and/or TRs?
Ah yes, because a usually STAB-boosted Water move putting so much pressure on teams as to make people desperate enough to run Tera-Fire just to avoid its secondary effect is a completely healthy impact for a move to have on the meta.
Baxcalibur and all the Water Absorb/Storm Drain Pokemon exist too, so it’s not like anyone needs to be that desperate anyways.
Oh right, that thing. But at the same time, sacrificing the benefit of running any other item just to avoid Scald burns doesn’t make Scald seem all that balanced.
“But look at Garganacl, people run Covert Cloak for that and it’s fine!”
I mean ofc a Rock type that’s overly reliant on Tera being the only one to get Salt Cure (which doesn’t inflict an outright status effect onto opponents and switching out of Salt Cure ends its effect) is fine, but what’s not fine is almost every Water type (that isn’t Walrein and Dewgong cause idfk) in the game getting their own STAB version of Lava Plume.
I mean sure, Covert Cloak on a defensive mon has other benefits than just Salt Cure / Scald blocking like negating Psychic / Shadow Ball / Crunch stat drops and stopping potential Thunderbolt Paralysis, Flinch RNG and Dire Claw RNG, but being pressured to run Covert Cloak on a physically offensive wallbreaker/cleaner/sweeper/pivot or whatever does not sound fun at all.
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I don't even think that lava plume is as distributed as scald, which makes no sense because burn is a "fire" type status.
I'm hoping that, rather than scald, flip turn is brought back as a TM. Barraskewda stonks about to sky rocket again :)
Yeah, what makes Will-O-Wisp and Lava Plume balanced is that they’re Fire-type moves (with Will-O-Wisp doing no damage and having 85% Accuracy, making it less spammable than even something like Thunder Wave) with reasonable distribution. Running Tera Fire for something like those isn’t nearly as big of a compromise because you actually resist Lava Plume and are outright immune to Will-O-Wisp when you do, making it reasonable counterplay that can even give you a nice offensive STAB if you run Tera Blast or Fire coverage.
inb4 Basculin and Floatzel get Flip Turn too and Basculegion gets Poltergeist.
if torn-t gets knock off and defog back, I will be very happy
GET RAIN STONKS BEFORE IT GOES TOO HIGH!!!!!
Yeah, tbh I miss having a splashable Flying pivot.
Zapdos can work. So can moltres. There's a lot of things that can work here. Just think
I know, but Torn-T was the splashable Flying pivot. It did everything you would want out of a pivot like that. Offensive pressure, Knock Off, Defog, longevity and U-Turn.
I doubt Pursuit is coming back. Scald might have effectively been removed from the game, but it's still in the code. Pursuit is just straight gone. And honestly I think the game is better for its removal.
Why does *Bax exist tho
Regarding the TM discussion, I wanna see Scald back in exclusively ASS mons, Scald Milotic shooting up to OU
Also I was teambuilding for i dont recall what meta the other day and I saw that no mons get Serene Grace + Scald so i'd like to announce officially that I'm never moving past 1200 ELO like ever.
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Knock Off hits a decent bit harder on the first hit, and two Knocks will out-damage two Kowtows if the item that was knocked was Leftovers. The real downside is versus Booster Energy users, which are common enough that Knock Off wouldn't be the universal choice.
Pursuit would be obnoxious on Gambit or Ting-Lu, but I wouldn’t mind Pursuit being given to lesser Dark types like Skuntank and also Ttar. They need it more than ever in this power crept metagame.
Because ice is one of the worst types in the game and it takes something stupid for them to be good. I mean, we talk about Zam being OU, but Kyurem wasn't even UU in Gen 7 and its black form was OU for three generations. While both have found their way to Ubers now thanks to getting some insane additions in Gen 8, and Bax is basically just a weaker Kyurem, it shows how far back you start as an ice type.
Once A-tails drops, Baxcalibur stocks is going to the moon. Aurora Veil + Ice Body + Leftovers + Snow Defence boost. Means that Sneasler won't even be able to 2HKO it. I predict either Light Clay to get banned or Screens.
252+ Atk Sneasler Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 154-183 (41.5 - 49.3%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Ice Body recovery and Leftovers recovery (Sneasler is adamant in this calc lol)
252+ Atk Sneasler Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 154-183 (41.5 - 49.3%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Ice Body recovery and Leftovers recovery (Sneasler is adamant in this calc lol)
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