i apologize for my comments. i was out of line. i'm just upset that it looks like nothing will happen with gholdengo even after how hard so many people have fought to see something happen with it. i'm frustrated that we finally got enough votes for the thing and it's going to dodge action again because the clock ran out, and it's probably going to dodge the same bullet in dlc2 because we'll just forget about it. and i'm sad because no matter how much i post, nothing i do matters. i don't have enough skill or influence to enact change. i don't have the credentials to make people listen to me. i don't even have the manners to make people like me. i'm just an internet clown who happens to make more posts than anyone else. no one even wants me here, i hurt every time i try to help, and i'm lashing out in frustration because i realize that i can't be better. i will no longer be participating in tiering discourse until the dlc drops and i know my lack of contribution will not be missedYesterday, despite it being Thanksgiving, I got up the survey and posted an unprecedented, long PR thread + post here to determine how to proceed because the council lacks consensus and there is no precedent. Do you want me to just ignore my council, ignore policy and common sense, and go rogue? I am going out of my way to get us to the optimal decision here -- if you want more, that is on you, not on me.
This is an awful comparison. Mega Sableye in ORAS was at the end of a generation when it was still perfectly playable and not about to reset and have the whole suspect undone. Old generation tiering is in the same boat. You are not thinking this through at all if you are comparing the two and I implore you to take a step back and think it through.
This is also untrue. We could've had more suspects before DLC1 or during last generation had resets not been impending. This larger discussion and the PR thread are a long time coming. UUTL Lily even cited a similar experience in UU, too. You really have ignored a lot of what we said in posts yesterday for the sake of your own specific agenda I feel.
This is literally the entire point of why I posted a thread about where and when to draw a line. I literally said this same thing in my posts yesterday paraphrased. You are entitled to weigh an opinion on it, but ignoring what we said and then spitting it out as criticism that is uninformed is baffling. Be better.
i apologize for my comments. i was out of line. i'm just upset that it looks like nothing will happen with gholdengo even after how hard so many people have fought to see something happen with it. i'm frustrated that we finally got enough votes for the thing and it's going to dodge action again because the clock ran out, and it's probably going to dodge the same bullet in dlc2 because we'll just forget about it. and i'm sad because no matter how much i post, nothing i do matters. i don't have enough skill or influence to enact change. i don't have the credentials to make people listen to me. i don't even have the manners to make people like me. i'm just an internet clown who happens to make more posts than anyone else. no one even wants me here, i hurt every time i try to help, and i'm lashing out in frustration because i realize that i can't be better
i apologize for my comments. i was out of line. i'm just upset that it looks like nothing will happen with gholdengo even after how hard so many people have fought to see something happen with it. i'm frustrated that we finally got enough votes for the thing and it's going to dodge action again because the clock ran out, and it's probably going to dodge the same bullet in dlc2 because we'll just forget about it. and i'm sad because no matter how much i post, nothing i do matters. i don't have enough skill or influence to enact change. i don't have the credentials to make people listen to me. i don't even have the manners to make people like me. i'm just an internet clown who happens to make more posts than anyone else. no one even wants me here, i hurt every time i try to help, and i'm lashing out in frustration because i realize that i can't be better
i apologize for my comments. i was out of line. i'm just upset that it looks like nothing will happen with gholdengo even after how hard so many people have fought to see something happen with it. i'm frustrated that we finally got enough votes for the thing and it's going to dodge action again because the clock ran out, and it's probably going to dodge the same bullet in dlc2 because we'll just forget about it. and i'm sad because no matter how much i post, nothing i do matters. i don't have enough skill or influence to enact change. i don't have the credentials to make people listen to me. i don't even have the manners to make people like me. i'm just an internet clown who happens to make more posts than anyone else. no one even wants me here, i hurt every time i try to help, and i'm lashing out in frustration because i realize that i can't be better
It happens to all of us don't worry, your presence in the thread is really appreciated even with all the discussions that happens. As some are saying, you don't really have to think about it but rather enjoy the final days of the metagame before DLC2 do a complete TKO on DLC1.i apologize for my comments. i was out of line. i'm just upset that it looks like nothing will happen with gholdengo even after how hard so many people have fought to see something happen with it. i'm frustrated that we finally got enough votes for the thing and it's going to dodge action again because the clock ran out, and it's probably going to dodge the same bullet in dlc2 because we'll just forget about it. and i'm sad because no matter how much i post, nothing i do matters. i don't have enough skill or influence to enact change. i don't have the credentials to make people listen to me. i don't even have the manners to make people like me. i'm just an internet clown who happens to make more posts than anyone else. no one even wants me here, i hurt every time i try to help, and i'm lashing out in frustration because i realize that i can't be better. i will no longer be participating in tiering discourse until the dlc drops and i know my lack of contribution will not be missed
appreciate youFinchinator's presence and patience is appreciated, from me, a lurker who doesn't care to play but finds the community and it's developing intriguing enough to follow. Finch good leader of OU.
Ubers is a Banlist, simple as thatTo not completely go against Mimikyu's sentiment before, it does indirectly ask a very interesting question imo. That being, if the amount of Pokemon which we could tow this line of both not ubers worthy but still sorta broken checks broken reaches the usual population of an OU tier, what IS wrong with these, let's say 30-40 Pokemon checking eachother in kinda toxic ways? Or I guess in other words, being the new standard of OU. Genuinely curious here as there is a sentiment that "this gens UU is last gens OU", and to that, why not embrace it? I can only see Gamefreak going harder on powercreep rather than pumping the breaks on it, so this will only become harder to deal with before it becomes easier.
I suppose this sort of depends on whether you view Ubers as a banlist or a tier of its own, but I think that history is only showing that more things proportionately end up in users each gen (roughly), so it being looked at as a banlist metagame may be something which is becoming outdated. Curious what anyone else things here.
I'm not saying I'm a member of drop everything or to not ban. I'm just curious what it holds for the future, as we're 20 bans in and how many of them are this gens mons? Gen 9 makes Gen 5 powercreep look paltry, and I have to imagine the work cut out for a Gen 13 Council.Ubers is a Banlist, simple as that
a Banlist with a metagame, but a Banlist none the less.
I really don’t see a problem with banning more things, and imo, we aren’t that far away from a good (not toxic) balance in the metagame (obviously DLC2 will change that) Like we only need to worry about Manaphy, Gold, Gambit, and maybe Woger and Valiant, then imo we have a solid balance. And that’s what the most recent survey told us. If you look at them
To not completely go against Mimikyu's sentiment before, it does indirectly ask a very interesting question imo. That being, if the amount of Pokemon which we could tow this line of both not ubers worthy but still sorta broken checks broken reaches the usual population of an OU tier, what IS wrong with these, let's say 30-40 Pokemon checking eachother in kinda toxic ways? Or I guess in other words, being the new standard of OU. Genuinely curious here as there is a sentiment that "this gens UU is last gens OU", and to that, why not embrace it? I can only see Gamefreak going harder on powercreep rather than pumping the breaks on it, so this will only become harder to deal with before it becomes easier.
I suppose this sort of depends on whether you view Ubers as a banlist or a tier of its own, but I think that history is only showing that more things proportionately end up in users each gen (roughly), so it being looked at as a banlist metagame may be something which is becoming outdated. Curious what anyone else thinks here.
I wouldn’t be opposed to the council imposing drastic action just to see what the tier would look like while we have the time. I’m talking about banning tera, implementing tera preview, banning ghold, or releasing darkrai. Not that I necessarily support any of these, but it’d be cool to get a glimpse into how the meta may change.
That's pretty fair actually. I do hope UUBers becomes popular enough to gain some real traction, as I can see generations to come needing to ban a solid half tiers worth of new Pokemon each in their own right, to where the banlist makes up like 10% of our total monsters rather than 2/151. It feels like the best compromise between Gamefreaks intent to ramp things up, our intent to keep some semblance of balance, and the "overcrowding" of useless ubers.This encapsulates how I've been feeling for a long time, but lately I've begun to push back on it.
Let's say 20-30 mons get banned from OU, enough to form a tier. It would be just a matter of naming, UUbers and OU or a new OU and new UU (everything shifting down a peg). However, it is true that Ubers was initially conceived as a banlist, and while that doesnt mean it's not a meta of its own, I sorta agree with that spirit.
It's not the same balancing around Tusk and Dozo and Manaphy and Garg, who have different dynamics between each other, than to balance around Flutter Mane or Iron Bundle. In any tier FM is in, there's going to be sooo many speed tie wars. So many mons banned to Ubers have perfect coverage. Most mons are offensively oriented. Many mons are minmaxed. We talk a lot about "this beats that" but in the end it is a whole team which contributes in OU. With Flutter Mane and the like, I feel like it would be hard to justify not running it bc it is so much better than everything else.
That's pretty fair actually. I do hope UUBers becomes popular enough to gain some real traction, as I can see generations to come needing to ban a solid half tiers worth of new Pokemon each in their own right, to where the banlist makes up like 10% of our total monsters rather than 2/151. It feels like the best compromise between Gamefreaks intent to ramp things up, our intent to keep some semblance of balance, and the "overcrowding" of useless ubers.
Thinking on it, what's the smallest OU we've had since like ADV? We're hovering around 40ish right now, right?