Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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, but if we were to theoretically time travel to the beginning of home, and basically implement Mimikyu’s policy of suspecting, do you all think the meta would be better or worse? (For the record, bax, roaring moon, blood moon and gliscor was held back to back, with bax getting qbed with maybe 1 week to let the format settle.)

Flutter mane, eleki, mecha delibird and magearna will blot out the sun.

in their shadows, palafin, Chien Pao and Chi Yu will run rampant

iron treads will likely be a top 20 pokemon, as a premier reactionary pick to volt switch. We might also see ribombee and veil/screens teams being popular

unleashing all the banned threats isn’t practical, most people suggesting it are being sarcastic or just imaginative.
 
so, i'd like to ask this because it's thanksgiving: what about gen 9 ou are you most thankful for?
I'm thankful for :Dondozo:, :Clodsire:, and :Skeledirge:. It's extremely refreshing to have Unaware mons that have (by modern standards) actual bulk to them. We've been stuck with :Clefable: and :Quagsire: for a long time, both of which, while fine, often fail to check setup sweepers due to simply lacking defense stats even after canceling the boosts. It feels like the nerf to recovery move PP and move distribution has enabled these mons to genuinely be solid glue mons that aren't as oppressive and undying as many past gen defensive staples (looks at :Toxapex:). It's great that balance now has more access to the ability too, as previously Clefable was the only viable Unaware user outside of stall, and Clefable rarely even wanted to run it over Magic Guard.
 
Just pls don’t unleash Darkrai. What does the tier have to gain by dropping it down? It’ll just add another fast, hard hitting sweeper to a tier filled to the brim with fast/hard hitting sweepers. Just another chaotic element that’ll get QB’d and distract from Mons that actually need action taken against them.
 
Just pls don’t unleash Darkrai. What does the tier have to gain by dropping it down? It’ll just add another fast, hard hitting sweeper to a tier filled to the brim with fast/hard hitting sweepers. Just another chaotic element that’ll get QB’d and distract from Mons that actually need action taken against them.
yeah, the only real pro i can see to dropping darkrai is that people would finally stop complaining about it never being tested because they would realize "holy shit, this is the most bullshit thing i've ever seen" in approximately twenty seconds
 
Hard disagree with you there, I had way more fun playing crown tundra OU than this meta
the beginning of crown tundra where we had like 10 blatant ubers running around was just foreshadowing for the entirety of sv. the ending of it is foreshadowing for gen 10 where game freak looks at the competitive community for the first time, realizes how bad it fucked up, and overcorrects like hell because they're fundamentally incapable of making a correct decision, turning gen 10 into the stallfest people thought gen 8 was
 
Alrighty guys, who are we banning next? Hopefully Gold or Gambit , if not, let's just keep going down the list of OU mon In alphabetical order. Surely if we ban 20 more mon the tier will be balanced... Right?
what do you suggest we do, then? people keep complaining about the number of bans without offering some sort of alternative solution besides banning tera (which isn't a useful addition to the discussion right now because we still have no idea how type 19 will change the game) or just not banning broken things and hoping the meta somehow works itself out (which is actually the opposite of a solution). do you have another idea that could work? because i'm honestly open to just about anything at this point. if you can drag us out of this hell in a way that doesn't involve more bans, a tera ban, or just letting things collapse in on themselves, i am all ears. i am literally all ears. i've physically turned my entire body into ears because i'm that desperate for a way out of this mess. do you know how difficult it is to type when you have ears instead of fingers? i might be losing my mind
 
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This is from my recent policy review post here:

The second DLC of this generation is set to be released on the 13th of December, which is just under three weeks from now. There is technically time for another suspect test, which takes about two weeks, but there is also a sentiment that this would generate diminished returns as any potential suspect would end up back in OU upon the release of DLC 2.

SV OU will undergo what some can call a "partial reset" at this time. We will evaluate some potential Ubers to drop down and examine the status of the Pokemon being added to the game that may have been Uber in the prior generation, too. This post is not about that metagame, however, which we will deal with once we have more confirmed information. It is about the current metagame, which has an expiration date within the next month.

Our tiering system has evolved to focus more on data and addressing the evolving needs of the community, which includes the practice of regular community surveys on the metagame. Pokemon that receive high amounts of support within the surveys end up as potential subjects of tiering action. Pokemon like Baxcalibur and Sneasler received overwhelming support and got quickbanned, but other Pokemon received good, but not overwhelming, amounts of support, leading to suspect tests of Pokemon like Roaring Moon or Gliscor.

Currently Gholdengo is comfortably within the margin of support that something would get to be a potential suspect -- it is at a 3.8 out of 5, which is on par with or higher than various prior suspects. There has also been a large outcry about it throughout the community, which you can see across thousands of posts on the forum and discord in recent weeks.

If we had a more permanent metagame state, a suspect would likely be up already (although there is some dispute within the council, this data would be hard to ignore I would personally say) given the uptick in recent support. However, suspecting Gholdengo could be seen as pointless as the verdict would only be in place for about a week before DLC2. This leads me to the point of this thread: when do we draw the line to stop tiering action prior to a release? Is it 2 weeks? A month? 2 months? Situationally dependent?

We have had various suspects and bans recently that are able to help people play a more balanced metagame on the ladder and in tournaments, and this feeling of the metagame improving is reflected in survey results, too. However, players would hardly be able to experience a post-Gholdengo metagame, if it even were to get banned, and with Gholdengo being such a major presence in the metagame, it seems like we would be flirting with futility by suspecting it -- or anything -- this late in the game.

The natural counter to this is that the support is there, there is no precedent or guideline that says when to stop, and we just went ahead on various other suspects/bans that could very well be undone with DLC2 as well, so where do we truly draw the line? We should focus on the current metagame while it is current as it is true that everything else is speculative and unconfirmed until it becomes the current, real metagame in the future post-release. And I personally understand and resonate with this side as we have been focusing on the current metagame for months, so this would be a bit of an abrupt stop. However, I also feel a line needs to be drawn somewhere and now may be the ideal time for that...hence this discussion

I am curious on what the community feels on this. I am ok to go forwawrd with a suspect to give the people what they support, but I also feel that it could be a waste at this point in our timeline and the results would not actually have any longstanding impact.




How I view this is similar to how someone would view the end of a generation. To me the ending of a Pre Home, Pre DLC 1, Pre DLC 2, and end of the overarching generation should be treated equal. While these don’t really get played after home or the dlc drop, they each mark their own individual meta. To me, Gholdengo should be treated how Mega Sableye was during ORAS. If it gets banned, It’s just another ORAS scenario which was fine
 
what do you suggest we do, then? people keep complaining about the number of bans without offering some sort of alternative solution besides banning tera (which isn't a useful addition to the discussion right now because we still have no idea how type 19 will change the game) or just not banning broken things and hoping the meta somehow works itself out (which is actually the opposite of a solution). do you have another idea that could work? because i'm honestly open to just about anything at this point. if you can drag us out of this hell in a way that doesn't involve more bans, a tera ban, or just letting things collapse in on themselves, i am all ears. i am literally all ears. i've physically turned my entire body into ears because i'm that desperate for a way out of this mess. do you know how difficult it is to type when you have ears instead of fingers? i might be losing my mind

I personally am just sick of opening up OU every other week and seeing a new suspect test on some trash Mon with 10% usage, but you all leave Gambit, Gold, Tusk and the gang in this garbage tier with some of the highest usage rates we've ever seen. And anytime someone uses a pokemon that can handle these top three they get banned. Honestly I don't know why y'all are pretending like you have any intention on keeping Tera in the game, anybody with 2 eyes and a braincell can put together that Terastallization is going to be one of the first things on the ban list the second DLC 2 drops. One genuine piece of advice I can give is (as much as nobody wants to do it) create a new tier between OU and Ubers. Pokemon that are too "broken" for OU but have no place in an Ubers metagame.

Another really good solution is to give the metagame time to stabilize before banning half the pokédex. That personally has been my biggest gripe withe the OU council this Gen, the game has barely been out 1 year and we already have what feels like as many if not more bans then the entirety of Gen 8 OU. Every month something new is getting banned, it feels like y'all are trying to hit a quota or something.

And for my final piece of free advice. Make OU open team sheet, or at least open tera team sheet. If you can see what your opponent is going to Terastallize in to, that make the guessing game that much easier. This has been a suggestion my friend has been screaming to me since the first wave of bans on week 1 of SV, and I genuinely feel as though that would balance out the game a ton.

In any case I don't think that banning every pokemon and it's evolution is the right way to handle the unprecedented power creep that scarlet and violet has thrust upon us. Hopefully one of my ideas can help out with the tier balance
 
and

I’m thankful for this being much more fun of a gen than gen 8, even with all the unbalanced bullshit currently here. It’ll probably also be really fun once we get that broken bullshit out the way too.
Yep, this is definitely the most fun I've had in a generation since gen 5. Despite Tera being quite controversial, reading telegraphed Teras or wielding the power of nukes such as Tera Dragon Baxcalibur and Tera Grass Rillaboom has been extremely fun, and gives me the same dopamine feeling that spamming Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump in rain did all those years ago. Playing around powerful Tera threats with my own Tera threats has been a highlight as well. I've also been victim to some heat strategies like Tera Bug Ceruledge, Tera Ghost Quaquaval, etc. which still managed to leave lasting impression.

Lots of the new Pokemon have been very fun to use as well. Even mons we thought would be mid like Ceruledge and Armarouge have a deent amount of depth and are still viable.
 
I personally am just sick of opening up OU every other week and seeing a new suspect test on some trash Mon with 10% usage, but you all leave Gambit, Gold,
Fair enough, those are super centralizing mons that the metagame Maypoles around, although I would say other bans have been more or just as contentious. We have some common grou-
Never mind.
 
The problem with your ideas is that they're things that are wrong, have already been proposed and discussed, or outright irrelevant for us now.
One genuine piece of advice I can give is (as much as nobody wants to do it) create a new tier between OU and Ubers
Not OU's Council nor players field to talk about. You can give the idea here, as many people before you have been saying for years past, with much more reason this gen, but it's no one's field to build this hypothetical new tier.

Another really good solution is to give the metagame time to stabilize
This is a possibility that many people before have also proposed, but it faces a number of problems. First, it's just wishful thinking at worst. You have no data or prove that the meta would "stabilize" in any direction, way or form if we were to wait, say, 3 months per ban. At the end of it, we may be just 3 months older with the meta over-centralized over the same threats, while many other threats lurk in their shadow. So, when we finally ban these "first broken wave", a "second broken wave" arises that causes the same problems, but we'd have to wait another 3 months to "wait for stability".
Waiting is an option, but it may as well be a solution as none at all. It's a gamble where we place time as bet, and this gen, we don't have that leisure. Quick and constant action is not comfortable, or even good maybe, but it doesn't make it any less necessary.
Make OU open team sheet, or at least open tera team sheet.
This was discussed during the Tera Suspect, as Tera Team Preview. It was one of the options that was voted upon within "Tera Restrictions" segment of the voting, and simply lost in favor of "No Restrictions". It's still an option that is open and may be revisited on the future suspect after DLC2, but it's nothing new. I agree that it would be the best restriction on Tera assuming any is taken, but again, that's a discussion that we'll be "forced" to have when the new suspect happens, and may as well leave it for then.
Which takes me to:
Honestly I don't know why y'all are pretending like you have any intention on keeping Tera in the game, anybody with 2 eyes and a braincell can put together that Terastallization is going to be one of the first things on the ban list the second DLC 2 drops.
WE make the banlist, my guy. WE AS A COMMUNITY. Through "PUBLIC" votings. You need to get reqs, and not everyone can get them (like myself, as I failed to get them during the first suspect), but this is not some shady business done behind black curtains while we await he council's omnipotent word. And the same can be applied to all the bans thus far, which also ties to the other problem with "giving the meta time to stabilize": PEOPLE MAJORITARILY DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. As Surveys, Votings and discussions have come to prove time and time again.
It's not unanimous, so of course people are going to disagree, but make no mistake that all decisions in Gen 9 so far have been made through the community, something that the Gen 9 OU Council has dedicated extra effort to not only ensure, but make it as transparent and public as possible.
 
I personally am just sick of opening up OU every other week and seeing a new suspect test on some trash Mon with 10% usage, but you all leave Gambit, Gold, Tusk and the gang in this garbage tier with some of the highest usage rates we've ever seen. And anytime someone uses a pokemon that can handle these top three they get banned.

Usage has zero influence on something being banned or banworthy. Tusk sees so much usage because it is tremendous role compression which greatly eases teambuilding. Granted a portion of its usage is due to the limited options for hazard removal, but it's a stellar pokemon anyways.

Also the bans have zero to do with them being good into the top three, and everything to do with them being broken, unbalanced or unhealthy for the game.

Honestly I don't know why y'all are pretending like you have any intention on keeping Tera in the game, anybody with 2 eyes and a braincell can put together that Terastallization is going to be one of the first things on the ban list the second DLC 2 drops.

If there was no intention of keeping Tera around, then the council wouldn't wait for dlc2, let alone home, and have just banned it outright without even consulting the community. But they did. Community voted to have it around for now.

One genuine piece of advice I can give is (as much as nobody wants to do it) create a new tier between OU and Ubers. Pokemon that are too "broken" for OU but have no place in an Ubers metagame.

This does nothing for this tier. Mons end up useless in the next tier up after being banned from their prior tier. It happens. It sucks. Oh well. OU is the standard of play and Ubers is the tier above that also functions as a banlist for OU.

Another really good solution is to give the metagame time to stabilize before banning half the pokédex. That personally has been my biggest gripe withe the OU council this Gen, the game has barely been out 1 year and we already have what feels like as many if not more bans then the entirety of Gen 8 OU. Every month something new is getting banned, it feels like y'all are trying to hit a quota or something.

If broken pokemon are in a tier, it's not going to stabilize. The amount of bans is irrelevant, but it's also the way it is because of the powercreep this gen with multiple overpowered pokemon, lacking tools to deal with them. You can go ahead and look through the list of OU to Uber mons and their presence wouldn't allow the tier to stabilize.

And for my final piece of free advice. Make OU open team sheet, or at least open tera team sheet. If you can see what your opponent is going to Terastallize in to, that make the guessing game that much easier. This has been a suggestion my friend has been screaming to me since the first wave of bans on week 1 of SV, and I genuinely feel as though that would balance out the game a ton.

Open team sheet itself is stupid and takes certain elements of skill out of the game. Tera preview doesn't solve the major issues with the mechanic and just adds in new ones.
 
Usage has zero influence on something being banned or banworthy. Tusk sees so much usage because it is tremendous role compression which greatly eases teambuilding. Granted a portion of its usage is due to the limited options for hazard removal, but it's a stellar pokemon anyways.

Also the bans have zero to do with them being good into the top three, and everything to do with them being broken, unbalanced or unhealthy for the game.



If there was no intention of keeping Tera around, then the council wouldn't wait for dlc2, let alone home, and have just banned it outright without even consulting the community. But they did. Community voted to have it around for now.



This does nothing for this tier. Mons end up useless in the next tier up after being banned from their prior tier. It happens. It sucks. Oh well. OU is the standard of play and Ubers is the tier above that also functions as a banlist for OU.



If broken pokemon are in a tier, it's not going to stabilize. The amount of bans is irrelevant, but it's also the way it is because of the powercreep this gen with multiple overpowered pokemon, lacking tools to deal with them. You can go ahead and look through the list of OU to Uber mons and their presence wouldn't allow the tier to stabilize.



Open team sheet itself is stupid and takes certain elements of skill out of the game. Tera preview doesn't solve the major issues with the mechanic and just adds in new ones.

Alright, well if all my ideas are trash than what do you suggest? Just ban the entire pokédex until OU looks like LC? Because that's what it's starting to look like. I genuinely want to know (from anyone) what is the long term plan for OU, if there even is one?
 
I personally am just sick of opening up OU every other week and seeing a new suspect test on some trash Mon with 10% usage, but you all leave Gambit, Gold, Tusk and the gang in this garbage tier with some of the highest usage rates we've ever seen.
Let's run down the suspect test list, shall we?
:chien pao: 32.76% usage on ladder prior to its first suspect, being the third-most used mon in SV OU at the time, as well as being an incredibly one-dimensional wallbreaker that could essentially OHKO or 2HKO the entire tier.
:walking wake: While it's usage was lower at 15%, it was a pokemon that was divisive on entry and had a lot of pro-ban arguments at the beginning of its suspect test before public opinion generally mellowed on it, and thus it avoided the ban hammer.
:zamazenta: Similarly controversial, many people were arguing that it was more broken than Volcarona at the time and that it should have gotten QBed, and followed a similar history in the suspect thread to Walking Wake, except for the fact that public opinion has NOT mellowed on this thing and people are still arguing that it should be removed from the tier.
:kingambit: I don't think I need to say anything here.
:ursaluna-bloodmoon: The second highest (if i'm not mistaken) ban percentage of any suspect test in Smogon's history, that already had the 5th highest usage in the tier at 22%. It would be absurd if this DIDN'T get subjected to at least a suspect.
:roaring moon: 20.47% usage in the first half of the month while it was legal with absurd breaking power and newfound access to the most reliable, progress-forcing dark move in the game and acrobooster. If this wasn't banned it easily could have cracked top 3.
:gliscor: Not only did it have 20% usage prior to its ban, it was prominent in high ladder, incredibly viable with diverse set variety, and the primary thing people were citing was a tour match of gliscor v. gliscor gameplay to explain why it was unhealthy.

Frankly, I don't have any idea what in the hell you're talking about, since a majority of the suspects have been mons with high usage and viability that put constraints on the teambuilder and in matches, and the only two pokemon that had less than 20% usage in the tier were the ones that weren't banned, which were suspected due to community support, in addition to Zamazenta recieving a 3.7 on the tiering survey. With the possible exception of Walking Wake, every suspect in this tier has been necessary and conducive to the health of the metagame and none of them have been "trash mons with 10% usage" as you'd put it.
 
Alright, well if all my ideas are trash than what do you suggest? Just ban the entire pokédex until OU looks like LC? Because that's what it's starting to look like. I genuinely want to know (from anyone) what is the long term plan for OU, if there even is one?
Probably keep banning overpowered stuff that forces the metagame to overcompensate for it. Gen 9's level of powercreep is arguably worse than Gen 5's, so this is just the reality of how tiering is gonna work here. What exactly do you propose we "adapt" to? Chi-Yu? Annihilape? Palafin? Bloodmoon? I can't imagine how a metagame where we drag our feet and only have half of these bans out and it's even more of a nightmare hellscape centralized entirely around them is better and not worse.
 
I personally am just sick of opening up OU every other week and seeing a new suspect test on some trash Mon with 10% usage, but you all leave Gambit, Gold, Tusk and the gang in this garbage tier with some of the highest usage rates we've ever seen. And anytime someone uses a pokemon that can handle these top three they get banned.
as others have already explained, usage does not mean broken and everything we've kicked out has had plenty of usage, although you do have somewhat of a point with us leaving gambit and ghold alone because they are the roadrunner to this community's wile e coyote. tusk has high usage not because of brokenness but because it's a spinner with good matchups against the meta-warpingest mons in the tier. as for your other point, the big 3 are not somehow dictating what else gets banned, as evidenced by the fact that not everything that's been banned matches up well into them—hell, flutter mane loses to gambit because mane has 55/55 physical "bulk" and gambit has unreasonably strong physical priority
Honestly I don't know why y'all are pretending like you have any intention on keeping Tera in the game, anybody with 2 eyes and a braincell can put together that Terastallization is going to be one of the first things on the ban list the second DLC 2 drops.
this depends entirely on what type 19 does. if it's something that's niche or not worth using and tera as a concept doesn't change much, the tera suspect will wait until the meta is well and truly balanced. if it's something game-changing, it might happen sooner, but not immediately. if it's something completely bonkers-ass cuckoo bananas that unambiguously breaks tera, we might even skip the suspect altogether
One genuine piece of advice I can give is (as much as nobody wants to do it) create a new tier between OU and Ubers. Pokemon that are too "broken" for OU but have no place in an Ubers metagame.
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this is beyond the scope of ou tiering policy. besides this, i've gone over why this would never work and has in fact already failed with freedom cup
Another really good solution is to give the metagame time to stabilize before banning half the pokédex. That personally has been my biggest gripe withe the OU council this Gen, the game has barely been out 1 year and we already have what feels like as many if not more bans then the entirety of Gen 8 OU. Every month something new is getting banned, it feels like y'all are trying to hit a quota or something.
the community at large is responsible for this, not the council. the council has even asked the community whether we want them to speed up or slow down and we told them to stay the course. the rate of bans might not be what you want, but it's what the community wants. also, which of these bans were unjustified? point out any suspect ban that you think was out of line and i can direct you to an entire thread filled with reasons it wasn't; quickbans should be self-evident
And for my final piece of free advice. Make OU open team sheet, or at least open tera team sheet. If you can see what your opponent is going to Terastallize in to, that make the guessing game that much easier. This has been a suggestion my friend has been screaming to me since the first wave of bans on week 1 of SV, and I genuinely feel as though that would balance out the game a ton.
tera preview might work, i'm still a believer in it, but i don't think it would have affected any of the bans thus far, nor any potential ones i can see in the future. the guessing game is more of a problem with the mechanic itself than with the mons using it. fully open team sheets is a bad idea. evidence: vgc uses open team sheets
In any case I don't think that banning every pokemon and it's evolution is the right way to handle the unprecedented power creep that scarlet and violet has thrust upon us. Hopefully one of my ideas can help out with the tier balance
unfortunately, all of your suggestions have been brought up before and the general consensus is that none of them would accomplish the balance that we're trying to achieve here. i suppose we'll stick to bans unless something better comes along
 
I believe the OU Council should act on the survey and suspect Gholdengo next. If there is no action now, it will probably be another 4 months before there is action on Gholdengo. This mon has been around for a year, and we already know its arguably very negative effect on the meta as a very powerful breaker that can't be dealt with indirectly that also has a stranglehold on the hazard game. I doubt any of the drops in the DLC will change that, so I'm in favour of getting Gholdengo out of here ASAP.
 
I personally am just sick of opening up OU every other week and seeing a new suspect test on some trash Mon with 10% usage, but you all leave Gambit, Gold, Tusk and the gang in this garbage tier with some of the highest usage rates we've ever seen.
I understand Gambit and Ghold, but TUSK? This ain't it chief, high usage rates do not mean an overpowered threat, otherwise Lando-T would've been banned in gens 5-8. Others have already gone into detail about this so I'm not gonna.
I believe the OU Council should act on the survey and suspect Gholdengo next. If there is no action now, it will probably be another 4 months before there is action on Gholdengo. This mon has been around for a year, and we already know its arguably very negative effect on the meta as a very powerful breaker that can't be dealt with indirectly that also has a stranglehold on the hazard game. I doubt any of the drops in the DLC will change that, so I'm in favour of getting Gholdengo out of here ASAP.
I agree, even though testing Ghold leaves us with about less than 2 weeks before DLC2, Ghold has been proven to be a hazard-removal choking, balance wrecking, insanely good monster that has been here for too long. While changes in DLC2 could balance Ghold, they also could not, its hard to say.
At the very least we should make Ghold high priority if no action is taken on it before DLC2 drops, make it one of the first suspect tests, maybe not the first if we have a lot of broken mons drop, but one of the first tests nonetheless.
 
If there was a vote for this, I’d vote to suspect Ghold.

What’s the worst thing that could happen? We “waste time” but at least get a glimpse into a different meta, one where blocking hazard removal isn’t as easy.

for more insights, maybe can run the suspect in a meta where ghold isn’t allowed
I honestly whole heartedly agree. If a metagame without ghold is not any better i.e., nothing gets better, than we learn from it. If the metagame does become better, which it most likely will, people can't deny that gholdengo wasn't a negative influence.

Also just wondering, despite National dex being a completely different format, was there major improvements after ghold was banned there? I know that National Dex shouldn't be the basis of banning/not banning something here, I just wondered.
 
If there was a vote for this, I’d vote to suspect Ghold.

What’s the worst thing that could happen? We “waste time” but at least get a glimpse into a different meta, one where blocking hazard removal isn’t as easy.

for more insights, maybe can run the suspect in a meta where ghold isn’t allowed
A week isn't enough time. Quickbanning dengo should be the solution that's opted for if we want to see a dengo-less metagame.

I'd assume what would happen if Dengo was banned for the first week is that a lot of defoggers would be spammed, similar to how Walking Wake Sun was spammed during the first week of its release. If the metagame outright ends, this could give the playerbase a false impression of the metagame that more defoggers are viable than they actually are, which may not be entirely accurate as we have seen over time in other metagames like ORAS (in particular, I think G-Weezing and Mandibuzz are very likely to fall off over time based on the limited UU experience I have). I'd say three weeks is a more realistic timeframe to assert the effects on whether a Dengo ban will have any meaningful impact on the hazard game.
 
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