Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that Ogerpon doesn't need to tera to get the 1.2x boost from the masks
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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I mean, what other item would you really want to run on the Ogerpon forms? It’s a really hard sell to use other items when get an effective 154 Atk stat, get exclusive coverage you can get else where, and can’t be removed. I agree with the other points and would like to add that kind of sucks that her +1 abilities are locked behind tera which otherwise would be cool.Here's my thoughts on the DLC as a whole rn:
I started playing yesterday because I was busy with Teraless OU and NPA 1v1 tours when it actually dropped but here's everything I think about the DLC so far.
In terms of games played, I made an account last night and did a lot of teambuilding and testing (thanks Vkhss Mario34), so far I am 35-1 with a GXE on my alt zamazwag and I'll keep laddering until I hit a new peak ig, theres a few teams I have used and I will share them all at the end of this post
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I have noticed a lot of discussion both in the OU room and on forum discussions regarding Alolan Ninetales and Aurora Veil, and their impact on the metagame. Personally I see this being a very similar situation to screens at the beginning of Pokemon Home; with the influx of new Pokemon unleashed into the OU metagame, it is only natural to see people combining broken setup sweepers and putting them under screens, making mons such as Baxcalibur (which gets a 1.5x defence boost in hail) almost unkillable. In my opinion, I believe Ninetales and Light Clay in general should be closely monitored, as being able to set up both reflect and light screen in one turn is insanely oppressive, and when combined with Ninetales' extraordinary 348 speed and access to great utility moves such as Encore and Hypnosis, as well as a great move pool in Freeze-Dry, Blizzard and Moonblast, it truly becomes a force to be reckoned with. Honestly I do think this whole issue lies heavily on Baxcalibur, which I will go over shortly, but for now I think it should be monitored and there shouldn't be any actions against it for now as people adapt and the metagame evolves.
With the addition of Scale Shot to Baxcalibur's movepool, I believe this pseudo-legendary is in the best spot it has ever been throughout gen 9. With the support of Aurora Veil and Ninetales' hail, many teams have been abusing Baxcalibur's amazing bulk coupled with its sweeping potential. Before the DLC, Baxcalibur suffered from 4 move syndrome; if it was to run its more powerful SD set, it would be stuck on 300 speed and was either forced to run Ice Shard and neglect the stronger Icicle Crash or Spear, or drop Glaive Rush or Earthquake entirely and run double ice coverage. Alternatively, Baxcalibur would run a Dragon Dance set, which was much weaker and often outsped by Booster Energy mons, such as Iron Valiant or Iron Moth. Baxcalibur only being able to get a +1 meant it was unable to OHKO Kingambit unless it tera grounded, which was a massive investment and a detrimental common interaction between the two mons. Fast forward to DLC, and now Baxcalibur has the ability to run its SD set for instant and brutal power, however with the addition of Scale Shot, it no longer had to worry about its speed, since it pretty much had both a Dragon Dance and SD built into its moveset. Not only that, the item Loaded Dice would make Baxcalibur's Scale Shots and Icicle Spears hit 4 or 5 times, a much greater DPS than previously. Under hail and veil, this mon's sweeping power would become almost unstoppable, and this alone made teambuilding very difficult as many teams now had to adapt to this inherently broken Hail + Screens Baxcalibur; don't even get me started when Baxcalibur turns into a different type. Personally, I have not had much issue with Baxcalibur during my climb thanks to the use of Balloon Gholdengo and Water Kingambit, which were both solid counters to the majority of Baxcalibur tera types and sets. However, this does not change the fact that the mon is way too oppressive for the metagame right now and often requires the opponent to expend Tera or sacrifice many mons just to kill it. I strongly believe Baxcalibur deserves a suspect (NOT A QUICKBAN PLEASE) as it is very hard to accomodate for the Ninetales- Baxcalibur core when teambuilding.
Look I'm going to be honest I really think this mon is underwhelming right now. The amount of Ogerpons there are right now (which all outspeed Manaphy) make playing Manaphy almost impossible since you have to tera to rid yourself of your grass weakness to avoid getting revenged. Sure tail glow is a very good move since you get a +3 instantly however to do that and not be forced to switch out because you are threatened by a Kingambit sucker or an Ogerpon Power Whip or idk literally ANYTHING that is faster than manaphy - I think this mon is very niche despite all the "Manaphy is OP" talk I have seen recently. Under screens however, this mon is very good and its lacklustre speed is compensated by the bulk it gets from the screens, but it any Ogerpon (which I think has like 80% usage rn) can do 70% it even under screens which leaves it to get revenge killed by anyone the next turn anyways lmao.
Clefable is a very interesting one. I believe the best Clefable set right now is probably Magic Guard with Rocks Wish and Moonblast. The biggest issue with Clefable is the fact that it lost Soft-boiled, which is a massive nerf since in weather such as Rain and Hail (very prominent rn), it is only able to heal 25% which is very bad. As a result of this, Clefable is now forced to run Wish Protect, which heavily limits its movepool. I have experimented with Trick Sticky Barb Clefable which could be good on balance teams, however I think Clefable as a whole is pretty mid rn. It has very good utility such as T-wave, Wish, Knock and rocks, which makes it a great pick on balance and fatter teams, however it is very slow and its pure fairy typing is just Kingambit food. The Ogerpons also heavily threaten Clefable as they are able to SD and kill the Clef if it is magic guard, or use Clefable to gain tempo and momentum if it is unaware. Clefable being Unaware right now is very bad since it is prone to the now widespread knock off, consequently making it take hazards every time it comes on, which hurts its longevity badly.
I was initially very excited upon hearing the news that Rillaboom was able to regain Grassy Glide, however after it was shown that Grassy Glide had been nerfed to a measly 55 BP, it was nothing more than a disappointment. Rillaboom has a very awkward max speed of 295, which makes it slower than most offensive threats but fast enough to kill mons like Gholdengo. Unfortunately due to the Glide nerfs I don't think that Rillaboom will have the necessary power to utilise an offensive SD or Band set with the heavily decreased power unless it tera grasses, however there are a lot of Baxcaliburs and Fire Ogrepons around as well as Kingambits so I think Rillaboom will go back to being a niche terrain setter.
Ogrepon forms: Oh boy this mon is a meta changer for sure. I personally really love playing all the forms, and I think they are all in a great state right now maybe with the exception of Fire but I will talk more about that later.
The thing will all Ogrepon forms are that they have insanely good move pools. The coverage is crazy - there is Play rough for dragons, knock for ghost types, Superpower, tantrum for heatran and other fires for Fire-pon etc. All forms have crazy good speed tiers, with 350 being very solid for an offensive mon and enough to outspeed the majority of offensive threats bar booster energy abusers and new gen starters. However the real deal starts when they terastallize.
Personally I believe that all Ogrepon forms are balanced right now, including fire. After the discovery of the 1.2x bonuses on those mons, everyone was freaking out and saying how op these masked creatures were going to be. This is why I think they are fine FOR NOW
1. All Ogrepon forms are surprisingly squishy. This makes them all relatively easy to revenge kill with priority, such as Ice Shard, Extreme Speed, Sucker Punch etc. Just for reference, a Kingambit is able to do over 50% just after 1 fainted. That shows how squishy the mon is (252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 1 ally fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 165-195 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
2. Despite its good speed stat of 350, the amount of Booster Energy Pokemon, as well as scarfers and some starters (meow, gren) makes this mon easy to revenge kill as well through speed.
3. To unleash its real potential, Ogrepon is forced to tera. Considering how valuable tera is in each game as it can quite literally flip the outcome of a match, you have to tera just to gain the 1.2x boosts to every move and the extra stats, such as Attack and SpDef from Fire and Water Ogerons respectively.
4. Ogrepon is item locked. You could argue that this is a good thing, as Ogrepon is immune to knock off and trick, however I believe in the case of Ogrepon this is actually very detrimental, as you are unable to run a Choice Band or boosting item. As a result of this, Ogrepon will also take heavy hazard damage that cannot be prevented by boots, which is especially bad on Ogrepon-Fire, since it takes 25% every time it comes in. Despite the intrepid sword boost it gets from teraing, the pressure of being forced to manage hazards as well as being unable to run any potentially better items on the mons makes this balanced.
5. Ogrepon is tera locked. Pretty self explanatory, there is no such thing as surprise Teras on this mon lmao, when you tera you become a mono rock/fire/water typing, which are all pretty shit imo. Its the 1.2x move boosts as well as stat boosts which makes this possibly worthwhile.
Alternatively, you could use the pure grass Ogrepon form, but I believe that form is completely trash since grass on its own is a terrible typing defensively and offensively, and you don't get the 1.2x boost on your other moves since you are lacking a mask, only a measly 1.5x speed boost.
Okidogi, Fezandipiti, Munkidori, Sinistcha - I will have to experiment more on these mons but from facing off against them I think they are pretty mid with the exception of maybe Okidogi. Fezandipiti has bad stat distributions and its typing and moves make it really underwhelming, the only interesting use of the mon ive seen so far is a SpDef tank with beat up toxic chain, but I just don't see this mon being good. Munkidori on the other hand looks really nice however its forced to tera out of its abysmal defensive and offensive typing or else it just gets revenged by Gambit or literally any ground type. Sinistcha is just terrible, the fact it didn't get Shell Smash is really unfortunate imo.
I versed one guy and he hit me with 7 flinches in a row with scarf jirachi, I just had to put this here
Teams I have been using to great success:
https://pokepast.es/9096dba41f30fd2e
I am still laddering and I wont stop until I am rank 1 most likely, however this team has been working wonders in OU room tournaments and higher ladder. Tornadus having access to knock and a more accurate hurricane is amazing, and its been doing great removing the boots and items of everybody thanks to its great speed. Chilling Water Clefable with wish pass is just good in general, helping the rest of the team stay alive whilst being a good tank against the Ogrepon forms. The rest of the team are pretty self explanatory, with boots Zama being a great attacker in general with amazing coverage moves, as well as Dondozo to help with the Kingambit and Baxcalibur matchups.
https://pokepast.es/594b2efd5faff415 Rain team, worked well for low ladder
https://pokepast.es/693f8f1febd180ed
Ogrepon-Wellspring
This is my main team for laddering and I have almost never lost with this team since I started playing. Personally I believe glimmora HO is infinitely more consistent and better for climbing than screens cheese, the synergy in this team is very great and it has answers to practically anything.
For people asking why I am hypnosis Iron-Valiant, I have been absolutely loving this set recently and I think it is worth a try. The inspiration originally came from prep vs Akalli in my teraless OU semifinals game, since Iron Valiant is walled by stuff like Amoonguss, Zapdos and Toxapex, it is very difficult to break. However if I am able to put those threats to sleep I am able to get another Calm Mind which completely turns the tide of things, since a mon that I am unable to break 100% of the time has suddenly become a possibility to break 60% of the time, sometimes resulting in a sweep. This also works well against Kingambits if I tera electric, they always click sucker and I can put them to sleep for free, resulting in funny rage quits like this one.
Ogrepon-Wellspring is my personal favourite out of the forms, sure Fire gets a free intrepid sword but I believe having to take 25% every time you come in on offensive teams is bad, and having a Water-Grass-Fairy coverage is crazy good and more consistent than Fire-Grass and Fighting/Fairy/Ground.
Lmk your thoughts on this DLC, this is definitely one of my fav meta games of Gen 9 so far. I will most likely RMT the team in the near future
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You constantly pull out the best jokes and memes man!
It's not like A-Ninetales was bad either. Aurora Veil + 100% Blizzards + Fairy STAB + 109 Speed is not to be scoffed at.
Bro just has the drip with everything
>he has no idea
You used to be the president of the ban garganacl movement, never look up to ho
I feel like I need to talk about this specifically.
Terastallization is perhaps THE MOST controversial aspect of this deteriorating generation of pokemon (ironic since it's the generational gimmick). But gimmick or no gimmick, it's so incredibly powerful it got Volcarona banned. And Volcarona in the past was a really hit or miss pokemon -- it can sweep, but it wasn't going to a lot. Between Tera Grass and Ground buffing Giga Drain and Tera Blast respectively, it just lead to it being outright banned. And the single fastest quickban in OU history also came from tera which even more ironically enough, was from the fastest pokemon in the game: Regieleki. To put it lightly, Regieleki with max speed and a boosting nature outspeeds Booster Energy Iron Valiant naturally. Now you might be thinking: Wow. So it's fast. But what did it do with that speed? The answer: gain hella momentum and sweep lategame. Last gen Regieleki was barely a UU pokemon only hanging on because the generation ended. This was because the fact that any ground type just... walled it. But this gen the fact that it can essentially Volt Switch for free chip on a lot of things for solid damage, equipped with a new Tera Ice Tera Blast (or Water for Iron Treads who did in fact gain traction during the 1 day this was legal) to handle those everso relentless Ground types, it became better at late game cleaning than arguably Kingambit. So it was rightfully banned alongside Volcarona in the category of "Ubers because Terastallization".
The OU council has many a reason for why it didn't act on tera so long. Maybe it's because they want to preserve the generational gimmick. Maybe they wanted to not have a repeat of generation 8 and actually wanted to keep a generational gimmick. Maybe they feel like they didn't actually need to act on it. But whatever the case is, they've seen the damage it caused themselves -- hence the bannings of Volcarona and Regieleki. Hell even right now at the moment this was posted, Volcarona is still in Ubers -- which should say how strong it actually is with terastallization in the picture.
Now is the time to act. Terastallization needs a new suspect test. It has caused genuine damage to the player base in a very negative way. Whatever your side of the argument is for protecting tera, after this whole "Baxcalibur is broken" craze is done, tera needs to get looked at. And as much as I love the thing, it needs to be banned soon.
I am very aware of this generations developments. Between the start of the gen with Flutter Mane and Last Respects Houndstone, to Garganacl being clamored for a ban, to Chien Pao and Chi-Yu being bonkers powerful, to Walking Wake releasing and being "almost impossible to deal with", and even the HOME metagame with Screens Teams gaining notice and Ursaluna claiming to be banworthy. I've seen it all. It doesn't matter if it's the banning of Palafin, Annihilape, Shed Tail or anything else I didn't mention, I was there. Through thick and thin, both ausma and Finchinator have been active in the forum conversations, and to everyone else being in the forums, voting on wether something should or should not be banned, it has been working so far. We are nearing the end of the general complete Paldean Pokedex -- and you guys have proven to make things right. So please, I know you're working on it, but please save gen 9. I really liked playing this gen before the HOME metagame and been keeping tabs on everything right now. I'm not a member of your council myself so the future of Scarlet and Violet is in your hands. All of your hands. I send all the love in the world to you to make the right choice <3 <3 <3
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with all due respect, tera is very much on the backburner until we sort through the initial phases of the metagame -- likely beyond the "Baxcalibur is broken" phase. it is something we very much have in mind, but we need to handle what is directly in front of us first
I believe in the OU Council. A lot has been going on and each new pokemon additions wether through event or not have been crucial development for the tier, and a lot of things have been thrown y'all's way in the course of a year. So,
as big as a contradiction this may be, I plant my foot on the ground and say "my fault. y'all got this". Because as soon as DLC 2 rolls around, this metagame is set (unless some new additions are added). And that. In 2024. Is when we get to see the full capacity of the fun generation 9
realistically the "remembered SV OU" lasting into the long-term future is going to be after DLC releases early next year
obviously this is important and we are taking it fully seriously, but there is another "reset" impending
obviously this is important and we are taking it fully seriously, but there is another "reset" impending
what happened to preserving as many pokemon as possible? people wanted shed tail banned so that we could still use cyclizar before people started using orthworm and getting the move banned anyway, but are now willing to throw several setup mons out just to preserve alolan ninetales alone? its worth at least considering if these setup mons would be as broken as they are now without a-tales in the tier, cause without it setting up screens relies either on pult/grimm taking two turns to do so while being much more exploitable without the mixed bulk of a-tales, or aboma who is just a significantly less viable mon than a-tales with its lack of speed and horrible typing. if anything to me a-tales feels like another case of cyclizar, just being the perfect support mon to help setup mons get set up way safer.
personally i think that a-tales should really be looked at, because it just gets up veil way too consistently with its great bulk on both sides thanks to snow and its high speed, alongside options like encore. i don't think that screens are inherently busted themselves, but a-tales is just way too good at getting them up easily. if not a-tales, then at least light clay so that the screens don't last as long. a-tales not being broken last gen is not an excuse for it not being broken this gen, these are very different environments and a mon like moltres that was uu last gen is now an amazing ou mon because it matches up better into this ou environment (or at least was in the home meta, i have no idea how it fares in this dlc meta), its not impossible for the same to occure to a-tales, and it was already ou before.
like bax in particular should probably be banned regardless, cause it was already pushing it pre-dlc and now it has scale shot, but would stuff like manaphy and ogerpon-hearthflame be as bad without veil support? just some food for thought. maybe i'm just completely wrong cause i'm not a super high level player or anything, but to me the bigger problem seems to be how incredibly good a-tales is at supporting just about any setup sweeper, not just the new ones but existing ones like ddance espeed dragonite, much more so than the existing screen setters were. i'd say we should either way give the meta a bit of time to settle, since new counterplay might develop to the influx of veil teams that ends up bringing them into a more reasonable place in the meta, but only time will tell.
personally i think that a-tales should really be looked at, because it just gets up veil way too consistently with its great bulk on both sides thanks to snow and its high speed, alongside options like encore. i don't think that screens are inherently busted themselves, but a-tales is just way too good at getting them up easily. if not a-tales, then at least light clay so that the screens don't last as long. a-tales not being broken last gen is not an excuse for it not being broken this gen, these are very different environments and a mon like moltres that was uu last gen is now an amazing ou mon because it matches up better into this ou environment (or at least was in the home meta, i have no idea how it fares in this dlc meta), its not impossible for the same to occure to a-tales, and it was already ou before.
like bax in particular should probably be banned regardless, cause it was already pushing it pre-dlc and now it has scale shot, but would stuff like manaphy and ogerpon-hearthflame be as bad without veil support? just some food for thought. maybe i'm just completely wrong cause i'm not a super high level player or anything, but to me the bigger problem seems to be how incredibly good a-tales is at supporting just about any setup sweeper, not just the new ones but existing ones like ddance espeed dragonite, much more so than the existing screen setters were. i'd say we should either way give the meta a bit of time to settle, since new counterplay might develop to the influx of veil teams that ends up bringing them into a more reasonable place in the meta, but only time will tell.
I feel like Scale Shot + SD Bax reaches the same conclusion as DD + Glaive Rush, it just takes a different path to get there. Then you end up vulnerable to physical priority anyways. I don't believe that alone moves the needle on Bax being broken or not.
Light Clay stuff was ridiculous at the start of the generation but it fell off after the egregious mons and the extremely stupid Shed Tail got banned. I would personally give it like, a month before we even think about action on Ninetales-A or Clay. Veil is really only as good as the setup-heavy monsters are.
Light Clay stuff was ridiculous at the start of the generation but it fell off after the egregious mons and the extremely stupid Shed Tail got banned. I would personally give it like, a month before we even think about action on Ninetales-A or Clay. Veil is really only as good as the setup-heavy monsters are.
The first post-DLC SV OU Tiering Survey: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-tiering-surveys.3711911/#post-9782201
It doesn't take scholarly debate to realize that Tera is on the backburner of our conversations until post DLC2. We have to deal with Ninetales-Alola, Baxcalibur, Hearthflame, Manaphy, the 19th Tera type, and other new DLC additions long before reevaluating Tera. If you were hoping for anything more, you are going to have to wait another 2-3 months before DLC2 arrives.
considering that any action on tera is taking place after dlc2, i think "dealing with the 19th tera type" will probably take place at the same time as that
you missed manaphy, iron valiant, and ogerpon-hersheybar
I actually think that if we ban tera, gambit would probably be fine, even if its really strong. Tera is clearly the factor that breaks it since it can LITERALLY BYPASS WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO KEEP IT IN LINE BY CLICKING TERA FOR A FREE SD
Also Survey Responses:
Bax: 5 we all know why its broken, it needs to go
Hearthflame Ogerpon: 5 i've seen the calcs, I know what absurdity it can do, and I know its 100% gonna be broken as soon as Bax leaves from the absolute comedically overpowered bullshit it can pull, it needs to leave the tier asap
Manaphy/A9: 3 keep an eye on them in case they get out of hand
As for retests: Darkrai: 5 would rather it be retested once action is taken on tera but its been long enough since the last test as well as general powercreep to where its hard to tell if its definitively broken or not
Urshifu Single-Strike: 1 no, if rapid strike wasn't fine single strike definitely isn't, I know what single strike did to gen 8 OU, I would rather not have this Mon mandate mandibuzz and hydreigon on teams again...
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Yall really would rather ban this mfer than any of your broken breakers huh
i want it and the breakers gone
I have to say I'm pretty confused as to why Darkshifu was put on the survey for a potential retest. I've seen nobody talk about it as if it actually has potential to not be completely busted in OU, unlike Darkrai or even Skymin. Have there been people pushing for it that I just haven't seen in the discussion thread?
thats also silly considering atales is not broken in the slightest
Survey Responses
Bax - 4 - still a really strong setup sweeper who doesn't have to work too hard for it. It has problems like being forced into loaded dice on scale shot sets and a steel and fairy weakness so i don't think it's AS broken as some are saying but 3 doesn't feel right. with the degree of power, ease of setting up and staying alive, and outcry I think a suspect is deserved
Ogerpon-Hearthflame - 4 - this thing was ridiculously powerful before the 1.2x buff was implemented. I'm not even sure if it is now but holy moly this thing is strong. Teras into basically Zacian with that ability and gets SD and a really good fire stab into a meta full of grass, and ice. I haven't encountered it often enough to say it definitely hence the 4 over 5 but this thing seems like an Uber.
Manaphy - 2 - honestly pretty mediocre, overhyped. No way to boost its speed really gets in the way of a successful sweep, you have to get rid of everything over unboosted base 100 or Manaphy will be constantly outsped and chipped to death. It has good coverage but finds itself Teraing a lot to glean more useful resistances. Tail Glow is a great move and Manaphy is capable of winning with it for sure but honestly has a hard time without screens, and even then having to rely on rest to heal with that speed is not amazing. It really doesn't stick out beyond anything with swords dance or nasty plot imo. Volcarona was a much better Mon, Iron Valiant is a more consistent Mon that is perfectly fine in the tier. Walking Wake outclasses it in a lot of its potential roles. Really don't think this is broken, though I've also not seen much of how it interacts with stall and balance yet
Ursa-BM - 2 - still pretty new to this Mon so my mind may change but it's not jumping out as especially broken yet. The low speed and relatively low SpDef seem to keep it in balance as well as the fact that snow and rain are very good right now so it really can't bank on healing with it. It seems to get up calm minds semi easily and can be pretty disastrous once they're there but still need more time to see it in action
Ninetales-A - 1 - I simply do not feel this Pokémon enables enough Pokémon or elevates enough to broken to deserve action on it over what it enables. It's mostly just Bax and maybe those other guys above. I haven't seen Bax without Ninetales more than once since we got the DLC so it's difficult to say "Bax would be broken without it" - I've not loved playing against Bax for a while though, and don't see really anything else that Ninetales brings to its level. Having to run Light Clay instead of boots really sucks for Ninetales too, and with loaded dice bax, you're giving yourself a pretty rough hazards weakness on teams that tend to not really want to sink momentum, light Clay/snow turns, or a team slot into our limited pool of hazard removal
Darkrai - 2 - no thank you! Nasty Plot + 3 attacks and Specs both tear the tier in half, and Darkrai being able to Tera into fighting and use Tera blast is not really acceptable
Urshifu - 1 - no thank you! The last thing this tier needs right now is a super strong breaker like this
Bax - 4 - still a really strong setup sweeper who doesn't have to work too hard for it. It has problems like being forced into loaded dice on scale shot sets and a steel and fairy weakness so i don't think it's AS broken as some are saying but 3 doesn't feel right. with the degree of power, ease of setting up and staying alive, and outcry I think a suspect is deserved
Ogerpon-Hearthflame - 4 - this thing was ridiculously powerful before the 1.2x buff was implemented. I'm not even sure if it is now but holy moly this thing is strong. Teras into basically Zacian with that ability and gets SD and a really good fire stab into a meta full of grass, and ice. I haven't encountered it often enough to say it definitely hence the 4 over 5 but this thing seems like an Uber.
Manaphy - 2 - honestly pretty mediocre, overhyped. No way to boost its speed really gets in the way of a successful sweep, you have to get rid of everything over unboosted base 100 or Manaphy will be constantly outsped and chipped to death. It has good coverage but finds itself Teraing a lot to glean more useful resistances. Tail Glow is a great move and Manaphy is capable of winning with it for sure but honestly has a hard time without screens, and even then having to rely on rest to heal with that speed is not amazing. It really doesn't stick out beyond anything with swords dance or nasty plot imo. Volcarona was a much better Mon, Iron Valiant is a more consistent Mon that is perfectly fine in the tier. Walking Wake outclasses it in a lot of its potential roles. Really don't think this is broken, though I've also not seen much of how it interacts with stall and balance yet
Ursa-BM - 2 - still pretty new to this Mon so my mind may change but it's not jumping out as especially broken yet. The low speed and relatively low SpDef seem to keep it in balance as well as the fact that snow and rain are very good right now so it really can't bank on healing with it. It seems to get up calm minds semi easily and can be pretty disastrous once they're there but still need more time to see it in action
Ninetales-A - 1 - I simply do not feel this Pokémon enables enough Pokémon or elevates enough to broken to deserve action on it over what it enables. It's mostly just Bax and maybe those other guys above. I haven't seen Bax without Ninetales more than once since we got the DLC so it's difficult to say "Bax would be broken without it" - I've not loved playing against Bax for a while though, and don't see really anything else that Ninetales brings to its level. Having to run Light Clay instead of boots really sucks for Ninetales too, and with loaded dice bax, you're giving yourself a pretty rough hazards weakness on teams that tend to not really want to sink momentum, light Clay/snow turns, or a team slot into our limited pool of hazard removal
Darkrai - 2 - no thank you! Nasty Plot + 3 attacks and Specs both tear the tier in half, and Darkrai being able to Tera into fighting and use Tera blast is not really acceptable
Urshifu - 1 - no thank you! The last thing this tier needs right now is a super strong breaker like this
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I'd say that people who want to ban Atales have no heart and would kick a baby's head for 100 bucks
Real men want Bax banned
Also never let any Urshifu form in OU again thats the most boring onedimensional unwallable pokemon ever, I dont care if its broken I just don't find it fun at all
Real men want Bax banned
Also never let any Urshifu form in OU again thats the most boring onedimensional unwallable pokemon ever, I dont care if its broken I just don't find it fun at all
I need to write this before I forget what I wrote for my survey response
Bax: 5. Im on the ban bax train if time passes and shows no signs of stopping. If tales/veil was banned id still want a suspect test so
flamepon: 3. I mean, it looks fucked but also we have not used it at all on ladder with correct stats. I know it sounds silly because its getting BETTER and not worse but considering we have to solve the bax/tales/veil issue we can probably wait a day for it to be implemented before doing a ban.
Atales: 1. Leave the little guy alone !!
Manaphy: 2. Keep a watch on it but idk it feels manageable enough to me
BM ursa: 1. Better ursa but doesnt look like broken ursa yet to me. Might get better once ice moves arent being thrown everywhere though.
1 in all the retests because im a hater
Bax: 5. Im on the ban bax train if time passes and shows no signs of stopping. If tales/veil was banned id still want a suspect test so
flamepon: 3. I mean, it looks fucked but also we have not used it at all on ladder with correct stats. I know it sounds silly because its getting BETTER and not worse but considering we have to solve the bax/tales/veil issue we can probably wait a day for it to be implemented before doing a ban.
Atales: 1. Leave the little guy alone !!
Manaphy: 2. Keep a watch on it but idk it feels manageable enough to me
BM ursa: 1. Better ursa but doesnt look like broken ursa yet to me. Might get better once ice moves arent being thrown everywhere though.
1 in all the retests because im a hater
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