Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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This is going to be anecdotal experience but it really didnt. Pex' best answer wasnt a mirror matchup, and pex was a lot less present than Gliscor is in gen 9.

FuturePort Glowking was very common and didnt care about Pex. Roost HDB Koko could sit on pex forever and force it out, and pivots to gain momentum. You had Tapu Lele too, Fini answered most Pex sets (and with whirlpool + taunt, 1v1d it), Volcanion made scald spam less good. Heatran could 1v1 it with Magma Storm +Taunt. Very rarely was a team's best option intk Pex their own Pex.

Pex also only got TSpikea which were a lot easier to remove by either carrying a grounded poison type, or using one of the defoggers. Gen 8 has a lot more removal.

Gen 9 is a very different metagame.

The reason Gliscor is kicking up so mich discourse is because it benefits so much from meta trends and the gen 9 environment (tera, lack of removal options, gholdengo). It' become really good and has high presence, but unlike pex there are very few answers into it that can threaten or 1v1 it while also not getting toxic'd and put on a timer, and not minding losing its item. Gliscor really is its own worst enemy.

Plus it can tera to remove its key 4x ice weakness, something pex couldnt do in previous gens

I know burden of proof for ban is technically on the pro-ban side but I'd love to know what your answers are into Gliscor

Lastly, I find it kinda amusing that you keep saying HO brainrot this HO brainrot that, when HO has arguably the best matchup into Gliscor. Stall and Balance teams rely on chip damage to deal with defensive mons, something thay Gliscor doesnt care much for. Gliscor can only really pick one defensive side to be unkillable in, and HO can overwhelm it, especially with taunt or sub on setup mons

Exactly, i cannot believe that I'm being lumped in with the "Smogon loves stall, all games should be HO, unban Bloodmoon" crowd for criticizing how Gliscor matches into slower teams, when *I* love stall

tr8orsrequiem, why laugh react the quoted post? It's very well reasoned, maybe listen to the reasoning rather than say "you can't break Gliscor because you are stupid and bad"


Please stop implying that the playerbase is incompetent or stupid for wanting action on Gliscor by saying "HO brainrot".

The offensive landscape of SV OU is SIGNIFICANTLY different than that of previous generations. Gliscor has always been a mon that can create a lot of free turns by virtue of it's bulk and typing, but in this gen it got spikes which makes the free turns it creates to generate incredible amounts of value. Spikes and Toxic make it very difficult for offense to break Gliscor, and you'll often see it funnel a lot resources from them,slowly killing momentum from the offense teams. Secondly, the actual offensive mons we have in this meta are simply worse into Gliscor than those that existed in previous gens. Valiant, Iron Moth, non sub Zamazenta, Sneasler, non taunt RM, Dragonite, to an extent even Kingambit, none of these are good into Gliscor.
Previous gens had Ash-Gren, Keldeo, Ice Beam Clef (Clef can't fit Ice Beam much), strong ice punch pokemon like M-Lop and M-Medi, Kyurem, Weavile (I am aware of the uptick in Weavile but it still remains niche), viable Crawdaunt, specs Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini to set Misty Terrain and block Toxic, more viable Rotom Wash, Ferrothorn to set on it and punish stay ins with hazards not to mention HP ICE Zapdos,Tornadus etc and there was better removal to stop them from being worn down easily. Our breakers that can push past Gliscor include Ogerpon (which is absolutely ripped apart by hazard, is very prone to Toxic and is probably problematic in its own right) , Walking Wake (which is now used less outside of Sun and HO , and often carries Specs and Booster so yeah still ripped apart by hazards), Greninja (downtrending) and Enam-I (fallen off an absolute cliff, weak to SR and can't break SpDef) . Oh also Gliscor can simply Tera out of the weakness to it's breaker, toxic it and laugh as the breaker dies painfully.

Also how is it "HO bias" if Gliscor's stranglehold extends over to Balance, hell it affects balance way worse. All balance must be built around being very resiliant towards hazards and toxics, and the best way to do it is to build your own Gliscor balance. If you're building anything remotely bulky right now you better have a good fucking reason to not run Gliscor. Right now is the most homogenized bulky playstyles have ever been, and it's almost singlehandedly due to Gliscor. We've seen teams abusing Gliscor to the fullest which don't have Ghold on them at all, and there's been replays where that thing sets all three spikes over and over despite them being spun away by Tusk or Court Changed by Cinder as it spreads toxics all over and eventually wins the hazard game, WITHOUT Ghold. Let me tell you, pre DLC at least Tusk wasn't dogshit at spinning cause there was no Gliscor that always beat it.

So please, the playerbase isn't stupid that we can't break a defensive pokemon, our options of breaking it throughout the course of a game are more limited than ever before, and it's negative effect is far more pronounced on Balance than Offense.

Have a nice day.

Why laugh react this post when it is better reasoned and clearly more researched and informed than what you have contributed, that being "toxapex is like Gliscor, you are dumb?" What points do you disagree with?
 
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You seriously want me to add all the mons discussed for a ban in gen 9 included in the gen 9 OU story? I guess so... adds more to it

Tbh I don't even know what I'm supporting at this point, just did that to see what would happen lol

In all seriousness, I feel we need to stop calling everything broken bc at some point if everything is broken, nothing is. Embrace ADV Skarm and ADV Ttar and GSC Lax and RBY Tauros.

EDIT: also, isn't the vote result kinda late this time? I was hoping to have found out already :(
 
Tbh I don't even know what I'm supporting at this point, just did that to see what would happen lol

In all seriousness, I feel we need to stop calling everything broken bc at some point if everything is broken, nothing is. Embrace ADV Skarm and ADV Ttar and GSC Lax and RBY Tauros.

EDIT: also, isn't the vote result kinda late this time? I was hoping to have found out already :(
The difference is that an ADV without Skarm is a worse ADV, a GSC without Lax is a worse GSC.

An SV without the brokens is a *better* SV.
 
tr8orsrequiem, why laugh react the quoted post? It's very well reasoned, maybe listen to the reasoning rather than say "you can't break Gliscor because you are stupid and bad"

Why laugh react this post when it is better reasoned and clearly more researched and informed than what you have contributed, that being "toxapex is like Gliscor, you are dumb?" What points do you disagree with?
I've posted on numerous occasions why Gliscor isn't really the issue. I don't feel like posting them again only to have the ban-Gliscor crew come in and completely ignore/laugh react my points like usual. Why wouldn't I do the exact same shit you guys do when I post at least reasonably well-researched and informed posts?
 
You really cannot compare Toxapex from last generation to Gliscor from this. Gliscor has such a depth of offensive and utility options than makes it far harder to abuse for opponents and far more versatile.

This shouldn’t even need to be said, but if you’re claiming that people are just angry at specific stalemates or being lazy over Gliscor rather than it actually being broken, perhaps play the tier and reread their posts. It’s not that linear and claiming that to be the case is disingenuous.
 
Look, i know the balance hazard stack slugfest that has been molded by gliscor is ironically worse the ultra offensive hellhole that was post home pre dlc ou somehow and its making every game with it just flat out boring, but something about a “normal” pokemon like gliscor in ubers makes feel uncomfortable and i don‘t know why, not saying it shouldn’t be banned
 
I just want to take this (and future posts of mine) time to acknowledge the genius of Choice Band Rillaboom.
:sv/rillaboom:
Rillaboom @ Choice Band / ???
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: ???
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Grassy Glide / Wood Hammer
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Brick Break / Swords Dance

Ok so. What does scarf Gholdengo outspeed (assuming no Booster Energy)? I wanna say... everything up to Dragapult, maybe a bit more than that. Now let's assume you have on your team a max speed Rillaboom with a boosting nature, and manage to keep Sticky Web on the opponents side of the field. Suddenly, Rillaboom outspeeds everything slower than Choice Scarf Gholdengo (which is everything Choice Scarf Gholdengo outspeeds), and ties with base 85 speed Choice Scarf users. With the fairly recent mechanics update for Sticky Web, it out prioritizes Booster Energy -- so your speed Valiant suddenly is -1 with a booster special attack. Now to be fair, this probably is a bit worse for you depending on your team. But most of the time, it won't be. All of this being said, exactly how strong is a Choice Band Rillaboom? I mean...

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 229-270 (65 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk in Grassy Terrain: 440-522 (101.3 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 12 Def Walking Wake in Grassy Terrain: 397-468 (117.1 - 138%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Grassy Terrain: 198-234 (65.1 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gholdengo: 320-378 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking-Galar: 258-304 (65.4 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant in Grassy Terrain: 187-222 (64.7 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 408-480 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



While these calcs aren't too diverse and honestly misleading, Rillaboom is wicked powerful. I find it funny how its attack stat is barely high enough for these calcs to be achievable. I'm aware it's not some anti meta pick or anything, but this thing could very feasibly take on entire team structures on its own suppose it has the correct support. Maybe slot in something like Choice Specs Iron Moth or Thundurus Therian that can threaten Corviknight and pivot out of it -- maybe add Aurora Veil from Alolan Ninetales if you're not comfortable with a raw Swords Dance set. I believe very much in the capacity for Rillaboom to sweep and put huge chunks in some teams.

:forretress: :rillaboom: Add that to the list of "Pokemon with Potential".
 
I just want to take this (and future posts of mine) time to acknowledge the genius of Choice Band Rillaboom.
:sv/rillaboom:
Rillaboom @ Choice Band / ???
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: ???
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Grassy Glide / Wood Hammer
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Brick Break / Swords Dance

Ok so. What does scarf Gholdengo outspeed (assuming no Booster Energy)? I wanna say... everything up to Dragapult, maybe a bit more than that. Now let's assume you have on your team a max speed Rillaboom with a boosting nature, and manage to keep Sticky Web on the opponents side of the field. Suddenly, Rillaboom outspeeds everything slower than Choice Scarf Gholdengo (which is everything Choice Scarf Gholdengo outspeeds), and ties with base 85 speed Choice Scarf users. With the fairly recent mechanics update for Sticky Web, it out prioritizes Booster Energy -- so your speed Valiant suddenly is -1 with a booster special attack. Now to be fair, this probably is a bit worse for you depending on your team. But most of the time, it won't be. All of this being said, exactly how strong is a Choice Band Rillaboom? I mean...

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 229-270 (65 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk in Grassy Terrain: 440-522 (101.3 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 12 Def Walking Wake in Grassy Terrain: 397-468 (117.1 - 138%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Grassy Terrain: 198-234 (65.1 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gholdengo: 320-378 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking-Galar: 258-304 (65.4 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant in Grassy Terrain: 187-222 (64.7 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 408-480 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



While these calcs aren't too diverse and honestly misleading, Rillaboom is wicked powerful. I find it funny how its attack stat is barely high enough for these calcs to be achievable. I'm aware it's not some anti meta pick or anything, but this thing could very feasibly take on entire team structures on its own suppose it has the correct support. Maybe slot in something like Choice Specs Iron Moth or Thundurus Therian that can threaten Corviknight and pivot out of it -- maybe add Aurora Veil from Alolan Ninetales if you're not comfortable with a raw Swords Dance set. I believe very much in the capacity for Rillaboom to sweep and put huge chunks in some teams.

:forretress: :rillaboom: Add that to the list of "Pokemon with Potential".
rillaboom does get decent ou usage, just not with choice band, if the time calls though, rillaboom may have to resort to the wicked ways of the choice bander once again
 
I just want to take this (and future posts of mine) time to acknowledge the genius of Choice Band Rillaboom.
it's already done, you want adamant for grassy, and wood hammer last slot for pure damage, tera grass for maximum damage, comparing both rill and forretress in "having potential" is an actual insult for rilla
niche subset of the meta and not the defining archetype
I mean, its the second-best play style right now, SCL right now is preferring gliscor balance to handle stuff, I will admit that this current meta IS dog shit and people have many and different reasons to say why
 
Gen 8 was by far the most interesting, balanced, and skill-oriented OU in a long time, and I'm genuinely baffled by people who say otherwise. This generation has been so cancerous and I wish we could go back to a sane OU where HO was relegated to a niche subset of the meta and not the defining archetype
Hyper offense in gen 8 isn’t a ”niche subset” its still good, just not the only playstyle not nerfed before the dlc
 
Gen 8 was by far the most interesting, balanced, and skill-oriented OU in a long time, and I'm genuinely baffled by people who say otherwise. This generation has been so cancerous and I wish we could go back to a sane OU where HO was relegated to a niche subset of the meta and not the defining archetype

Gen 8 was balanced as if every team was balance and every team has futureport and Wishport. Very interesting indeed.
 
Gen 8 was balanced as if every team was balance and every team has futureport and Wishport. Very interesting indeed.
This isn't even remotely close to true and shows you didn't even play the meta you're whining about. Most of the Gen 8 sample teams for instance don't even have futureport and none of them have wishport. Do they have future sight? Yes. But so do many balance/bulky offense teams do this generation. As it turns out, Future Sight is a good move. This is like complaining that every team has a Pokemon that can use u-turn on it.
 
Okay I hope you're ready for the worst take ever.

This is Gen 9 OU, without the mons being discussed constantly for bans, with the mons not legal in Gen 8 bolded:

Blissey
Cinderace
Clefable
Corviknight
Dondozo
Dragapult
Dragonite
Empoleon
Enamorus
Glimmora
Great Tusk
Greninja

Hatterene
Iron Moth
Landorus-Therian
Ninetales-Alola
Ogerpon-Cornerstone
Ribombee
Rillaboom
Samurott-Hisui
Slowking-Galar
Ting-Lu
Torkoal
Toxapex
Zapdos

This is Gen 8 OU, minus the unobtainable mons, with the mons currently sitting in OU bolded, the ones with OU viability in italics, and the banned ones striked

Barraskewda
Bisharp
Blissey
Clefable
Corviknight
Dragapult
Dragonite

Garchomp
Heatran

Landorus-Therian
Magnezone
Mew
Ninetales-Alola
Pelipper
Rillaboom
Slowbro
Slowking-Galar
Tornadus-Therian
Toxapex
Tyranitar
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Volcanion
Volcarona
Weavile
Zapdos

All the mons not highlighted are outclassed or irrelevant to the meta, replaced by some new mon that does their job better. That's a whopping 16/25 mons in Gen 8 OU that are the same as now. If we get rid of that many threats in Gen 9 OU, this is what it would look like. Hope y'all like your Regen cores.
at least you were self-aware about the quality of your take, i guess. and you spelled all the words correctly, which is the other positive thing i can say about this. now for the part where i take apart your argument:
  • the landscape of the meta would change significantly without the brokens. it wouldn't just be "the same things as right now but minus the broken things" forever. many things would rise up from lower tiers and a few things would drop. in fact, blissey is already going to drop because it rose up to ou exclusively in response to bloodmoon. oh yeah, and dlc2 is coming out soon, so the pool of available mons is about to expand again
  • tera exists, which shifts things more towards offense even in a completely balanced meta—setup sweepers can get free turns like they couldn't last gen, mons that lacked coverage or good stab last gen now have it, and breakers can just hit harder with their stabs. i think tera makes the meta both healthier and more engaging than gen 8 because it shifts things away from the fat balance/stall regen core nonsense while not invalidating those playstyles, it's just that the abusers right now are fucking ridiculous
  • even with ghold and gliscor gone, we have way more and way better spikes setters now than ever before, which makes regen cores and stall more difficult to play—yes, they can run boots to offset the damage, and defoggers will exist again, but knock off is on a substantial enough number of things that boots spam can be dealt with
  • the targeted nerfs of things like lando-t, pex, and the blobs, plus the recovery pp nerfs, mean that last gen's team comps are effectively no longer possible, and none of that will change in dlc2—lando missed its chance for knock off, pex its chance for scald, and the blobs their chance for toxic
  • teleport has effectively been removed from competitive play by limiting it to two mons that are too frail to run it. a large part of why fat teams were so big last gen was because stuff like the slows, the blobs, and clefable could eat a hit and immediately bring out a check to whatever the opponent had out. the only things we have like that now are the slowkings and alomomomomomola, unless i'm forgetting something
  • regen core mirror matches were about as entertaining as waiting for a particularly bland bowl of pea soup to cool, but gen 8 ou is balanced. it's one of the most balanced iterations of ou, only beaten out by possibly gen 6, as well as one of the most diverse and builder-friendly. i would be happy to see this gen turn into gen 8
 
comparing both rill and forretress in "having potential" is an actual insult for rilla
Potential in this case means "maybe usable". I got the mindset of Morkal when I'm talking about stuff here so yea. Didn't realize what Rillaboom uses let alone if it uses Choice Band -- but it's still an idea in the back of my mind.

Gen 8 was by far the most interesting, balanced, and skill-oriented OU in a long time, and I'm genuinely baffled by people who say otherwise.
Gen 9 was when I started singles, but I was around since the end of SS OU. It looks like a really balanced metagame, and freezai's video on the history of that gen expanded my knowledge of that tier (least I hope it did). All that being said, there's a few differences that are very notable:
- Trade back moves were in a large quantity -- so a lot of staples got the gen 7 goodies like Defog, Knock Off and Toxic and some old moves like Clefable's extremely large movepool
- The generational gimmick was banned (foreshadowing)
- Snow was still considered "Hail"
- Recovery moves had 16 PP

This has all changed in gen 9. Yes some tradeback moves were still there... actually come to think of it, I don't actually think they were. Toxic, Defog and Knock Off got kicked to the dirt with who has it now -- 3 incredibly valuable tools on offense and defense. Recovery moves having limited PP (the same as Morning Sun and Moonlight and such always had) barring Wish -- which is 2 turns to activate -- is one of the few reasons why Chansey and Blissey struggled for a while this generation. Hail changing to snow this gen also buffed Ice types a lot apart from the other obvious change of well... not being an Ice type by way of terastallization XD. I do know things will change for the better with Scarlet and Violet, and the meta will be just as good as gen 8 in terms of skill.

Also,
Look, i know the balance hazard stack slugfest that has been molded by gliscor is ironically worse the ultra offensive hellhole that was post home pre dlc ou somehow and its making every game with it just flat out boring, but something about a “normal” pokemon like gliscor in ubers makes feel uncomfortable and i don‘t know why, not saying it shouldn’t be banned
rillaboom does get decent ou usage, just not with choice band, if the time calls though, rillaboom may have to resort to the wicked ways of the choice bander once again
Gen 8 ou wasn’t that bad compared to now
Hyper offense in gen 8 isn’t a ”niche subset” its still good, just not the only playstyle not nerfed before the dlc
can’t wait for skarmory to return
Welcome to mars you posted 5 messages in the span of half an hour. Usually this isn't an issue because back an forth debates aren't uncommon here, but not only are most of these 1 liners, they also aren't relating to any debates. Notice how I quoted the 3 things that I wanted to talk about instead of making 3 sperate messages for each of them. I ask you this: could you maybe... like, tone down the amount of one liners and multi posting please? I'm not trying to be a moderator here I'm just asking for a favor here. Thanks buddy :)
 
This isn't even remotely close to true and shows you didn't even play the meta you're whining about. Most of the Gen 8 sample teams for instance don't even have futureport and none of them have wishport. Do they have future sight? Yes. But so do many balance/bulky offense teams do this generation. As it turns out, Future Sight is a good move. This is like complaining that every team has a Pokemon that can use u-turn on it.

This meta is such a mess that even the most boring meta that graced Pokémon as of now (Gen 8) seems like a paradise to some ppl.
 
at least you were self-aware about the quality of your take, i guess. and you spelled all the words correctly, which is the other positive thing i can say about this. now for the part where i take apart your argument:
  • the landscape of the meta would change significantly without the brokens. it wouldn't just be "the same things as right now but minus the broken things" forever. many things would rise up from lower tiers and a few things would drop. in fact, blissey is already going to drop because it rose up to ou exclusively in response to bloodmoon. oh yeah, and dlc2 is coming out soon, so the pool of available mons is about to expand again
To clarify, Blissey didn't rise up in response to Blood Moon, per se. It rose up because stall was becoming more common (because Stall was the only thing that could really beat Blood Moon defensively.) Blissey didn't (and still doesn't) really fit on balance/bulky offense teams. You can see this in the usage stats, most of Blissey's teammates were other mons common on stall, not balance mons.

This meta is such a mess that even the most boring meta that graced Pokémon as of now (Gen 8) seems like a paradise to some ppl.
Don't put words in my mouth. Gen 8 was incredibly fun, most people who didn't like it were, as I like to say, HO-brained and were mad it took more than one turn of set up and six turns of OHKOing mons to win a game.
 
To clarify, Blissey didn't rise up in response to Blood Moon, per se. It rose up because stall was becoming more common (because Stall was the only thing that could really beat Blood Moon defensively.)
that's… still rising up in response to bloodmoon. i don't know where the disconnect is here
This meta is such a mess that even the most boring meta that graced Pokémon as of now (Gen 8) seems like a paradise to some ppl.
gen 8 has some of the most boring matches, but it's definitely not the most boring meta. you really consider it more boring than gen 1, where every team is the same 6 mons? or gen 2, which is so dull that the top pokemon in the meta is the one that's constantly asleep?
 
Didn't realize what Rillaboom uses let alone if it uses Choice Band -- but it's still an idea in the back of my mind.
Rillaboom @ Terrain Extender / Eject Button
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Grassy Glide

support terrain setter, if you want, you can lure stuff with high horsepower but not really worth it

Rillaboom @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Knock Off
- Grassy Glide
- U-turn

damage, plain a simple

Rillaboom @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Knock Off
- Grassy Glide
- Swords Dance

damage but in the form of SD + LO, this set is still semi under-explored due to the abundance of hazaards, but it's essentially the same as gen 8


Since you don't know what rilla uses, I'm assuming you have never used rilla, you can use this as a wall breaker and support mon, pair it with grassy seed mons like sneasler and hatterene. mons that like having the ground weakness reduced, like gholdengo, moth, kingambit and heatran, and grass types of course, like ogerpon-wellspring

special mention goes to roaring moon, who likes being brought by U-turn, the recovery pp, the ground moves weakened

Remember that grassy terrain does not affect high horsepower, earth power and head long rush, so if you wanna use ground types, keep that in mind
 
some days ago i posted my replay about NG geezing against gliscor but ever since then I have yet to run into another gliscor fuck lowladder fr y'all be out here discussing about hazard removal meanwhile i have to figure out how to beat SubSeed trevenant

Gods I love SubSeed Trevenant.. it's great!.. ..if you wanna be a complete dick to your younger siblings or knowledge check someone the same way Xrd Bedman does.

Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry/Chesto Berry
Ability: Harvest
Tera Type: Ghost
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Horn Leech/Rest
- Phantom Force

I think the first time I saw this was back in the days of Ye Olde Pokemon YouTubers during Mid-XY (Pre-ORAS), you'd use Rest over Horn Leech if you're running Chesto, Sun isn't needed but it's welcomed the few turns its up. As Harvest can (and will) proc during your Phantom Force invuln (same with eating berries).
It's not a viable set by any means at all, but it's the equivalent of flipping someone the bird while you wait at a bus stop across the street.

The pained groans of men in their 20 somethings agonizing over an "unkillable Trevenant" that whittled them away slower than paint drying was a laugh riot back when I was like 11 or 12. Thanks for the nostalgia trip, Arnimacarni.
 
at least you were self-aware about the quality of your take, i guess. and you spelled all the words correctly, which is the other positive thing i can say about this. now for the part where i take apart your argument:
  • the landscape of the meta would change significantly without the brokens. it wouldn't just be "the same things as right now but minus the broken things" forever. many things would rise up from lower tiers and a few things would drop. in fact, blissey is already going to drop because it rose up to ou exclusively in response to bloodmoon. oh yeah, and dlc2 is coming out soon, so the pool of available mons is about to expand again
  • tera exists, which shifts things more towards offense even in a completely balanced meta—setup sweepers can get free turns like they couldn't last gen, mons that lacked coverage or good stab last gen now have it, and breakers can just hit harder with their stabs. i think tera makes the meta both healthier and more engaging than gen 8 because it shifts things away from the fat balance/stall regen core nonsense while not invalidating those playstyles, it's just that the abusers right now are fucking ridiculous
  • even with ghold and gliscor gone, we have way more and way better spikes setters now than ever before, which makes regen cores and stall more difficult to play—yes, they can run boots to offset the damage, and defoggers will exist again, but knock off is on a substantial enough number of things that boots spam can be dealt with
  • the targeted nerfs of things like lando-t, pex, and the blobs, plus the recovery pp nerfs, mean that last gen's team comps are effectively no longer possible, and none of that will change in dlc2—lando missed its chance for knock off, pex its chance for scald, and the blobs their chance for toxic
  • teleport has effectively been removed from competitive play by limiting it to two mons that are too frail to run it. a large part of why fat teams were so big last gen was because stuff like the slows, the blobs, and clefable could eat a hit and immediately bring out a check to whatever the opponent had out. the only things we have like that now are the slowkings and alomomomomomola, unless i'm forgetting something
  • regen core mirror matches were about as entertaining as waiting for a particularly bland bowl of pea soup to cool, but gen 8 ou is balanced. it's one of the most balanced iterations of ou, only beaten out by possibly gen 6, as well as one of the most diverse and builder-friendly. i would be happy to see this gen turn into gen 8

Can I just say it is very funny that the Chansey line is referred to as "The Blobs".
 
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