If youre having to use a specific and otherwise bad pokemon to check something, that's a pretty clear indicator of how restrictive and unhealthy that pokemon is. Gliscor also runs ice Fang occasionally so this isn't even a hard counter.About that... HEAR ME OUT, What about using Altaria?Altaria has defog, inmunitty to spikes doesnt care about gliscors toxic thanks to natural cure, has good bulk, Ice Beam is 2HKO and 3HKOs Gholdengo with flamethrower at 0 investment. It has plenty of options for utility and Gholdengo switching isnt really easy as it doesnt inmediatly threathen her without any NP
Can also easily wall the likes of CB Rillaboom...
Seems pretty good to me actually.
New gang is here ALTARIA SHALL RISE TO OU
Also reminderTTAR WILL RISE AGAIN FOR DAKRAI SHENANIGANS!!
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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These drops seem p good, actually.
Obviously we don’t know what mons are returning or being added to the metagame yet so roaring moon and gliscor may well still be big issues for teams, and I obviously think the other two are broken - if anything I think darkrai will be held back by volcarona leeching tera blast from it, strangely enough - but they had to come down if only so that we’d all shut the fuck up about them for once in our lives.
Anyway in other news, I’m gonna be running rillatran teams until volc gets banned.
Obviously we don’t know what mons are returning or being added to the metagame yet so roaring moon and gliscor may well still be big issues for teams, and I obviously think the other two are broken - if anything I think darkrai will be held back by volcarona leeching tera blast from it, strangely enough - but they had to come down if only so that we’d all shut the fuck up about them for once in our lives.
Anyway in other news, I’m gonna be running rillatran teams until volc gets banned.
Phew the drops could have been way worse, thank god. Not a fan of matchup moth, but hey at least we get another check to the also broken Kingambit.
Gliscor is back along with a bunch of new mons? Lando-T might finally exit OU!
Gliscor is back along with a bunch of new mons? Lando-T might finally exit OU!
I don't have a particularly strong opinion on Urshifu Rapid but as someone who played/watched a lot of Gen 8 OU the reasons I wouldn't want it tested would be mainly be down to its skill at abusing Futureport and the addition of Swords Dance to its toolkit. There is nothing that can answer that combination defensively and its set of Swords Dance/Surging Strikes/Close Combat/U-Turn does not suffer 4MSS at all. Urshifu is also quite bulky for an offensive mon (100/100 physical bulk) so it matches up well into offense and is immediately threatening.
It was already an A+ breaker in G8 OU, and if anything the meta shifts between 8>9 buffed it significantly. Slowbro is basically unviable in OU, Fini and Ferro are gone, Swords Dance is a good alternative to Banded, increased spikes distribution disincentivizes Helmet over Boots, decreased Scald distribution. If not for Unseen Fist I would agree its worth testing but that ability is just too degenerate in combination with it already being an amazing breaker.
(also wogre should defninitely be banned I agree)
Its extremly rare and suboptimal running Ice Fang due to 4 mss, so its a win anyway and Altaria isnt that bad. Can Defog, counter Gliscor, threaten Gholdengo, counter Rillaboom...
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Yeah at that point I would just rather slot in Weavile since its probably getting triple Axel back and its easier just to remove gliscor rather than leaving it around during a game to get spikes up.
Some people just think it should be given a fair shake after several nerfs and a lack of prior testing. I ain't apologizing for shit it if gets banned cause I still got what I wanted.
Plus it'll get people to shut up about it (which is what anti-Darkrai people want) since you can point to a more modern data set to justify not letting it back into OU.
Bruh, Weavile cant safely switch into Gliscor at all and they just switch out when you do, Altaria can switch as many times as you want and at least defog/dmg Gholdengo.
this is true but i'm still gonna do a fair bit of pointing and laughing if it does end up getting banned, and i encourage darkrai supporters to do the same to me if by some inexplicable twist of fate it ends up being balanced. someone's gonna walk away from this with not just egg on their face but a whole damn omelette and i'm fully prepared to accept that if it turns out to be me
We really should wait until the DLC2 meta settles before unbanning anything. As any DLC drop it'll be messy and any testing will be done on shaky grounds. Dropping Ubers is just adding oil to the fire, even if they may seem okay at first. If they aren't, they'll set the tier back quite some time in tiering.
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Unless we get amazing spin/defog distribution/ghold gets axed this is going to be a shitshow so I sincerely hope QBs are on the table.
One more mon that can end a match in a single setup turn, jesus christ
Unhealthy and matchup fishy just like Zama but I hadn't come back to the game yet when it was banned so I don't have firsthand experience to comment much
Idk man. On one hand I'm already super jaded to sky-high speed because of Iron Valiant shenanigans. On the other hand, this thing learns Nasty Plot AND it has a vast movepool, meaning it can very easily Tera defensively and flip its matchup profile. I'm inclined to believe it will rip the tier to shreds because high speed + nasty plot + coverage + good tera abusing + non-negligible bulk is just too much.
I disagree. I am anti-Darkrai and I don't necessarily want people to shut up about it. I want it not in the tier, and since that's a lost cause, I want to be able to very smugly go "I told you so" when it gets banned when it turns out 135 Sp.A/125 Speed/Expansive movepool to let it potentially hit any check/Trick and Nasty Plot/Better than Iron Valiant bulk/Huge Tera potential turns out to be a really dominating force once we have a bigger sample size than one run of OUPL.
I don't know why people think that the gap between OU power and Ubers power is about the same as the gap between UU and OU. Ubers is crazy.
With regards to Altaria, 4x Ice weakness is crippling. Ice Fang is much less frequent, but Ice Beam and Spinner are both very useful moves with threats like Rillaboom, Chomp, Lando-T, Birds, etc running around in the tier. Ice Spinner, especially, is still useful coverage due to just how common GTerrain is.
If you're looking for a lower tier Defogger, Scizor seems like the easiest pick due to its other strengths.
If you're looking for a lower tier Defogger, Scizor seems like the easiest pick due to its other strengths.
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I ran this thing in UU at the start of the gen. Altaria has an interesting set of tools to work with alongside a neat type in Dragon/Flying. It gets Roost, Wisp, Defog and a pretty respectable amount of coverage.About that... HEAR ME OUT, What about using Altaria?
Can also easily wall the likes of CB Rillaboom...
Seems pretty good to me actually.
New gang is here ALTARIA SHALL RISE TO OU
Also reminder
Unfortunately the toolkit is made out popsicle sticks and duct tape. While all of Altaria's traits are really cool, its held back tremendously by its mediocre stat spread. 75/90/105 bulk is allright, but it's not good enough to function as a mixed wall. Her offenses are also a bit of a letdown, 70 in both is pretty bad, especially when it's going to run moves that aren't boosted by STAB. Let's be real, a 3HKO is not going to scare out Gholdengo if it's running NP. It started falling off during pre-home UU if my memory serves me right. and that tier was significantly less powerful than the current OU environment. Likely, what happens is that every single time you switch in Altaria you're forced to Roost and give the enemy a free turn
You're likely better off running DNite (Gets Ice Spinner) or Mence (intimidate) if you want a Dragon/Flying glue mon and run something else as your gliscor answer and hazard control (Corviknight somewhat exists), but if you're looking for a mon that has both defog and answers Gliscor, GWeezing also exists - and it even gets Flamethrower for Ghold
When Kyurem returns we smoking the whole tier like Baxcalibur did
Kyurem @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Scale Shot
- Tera Blast
- Substitute
Kyurem @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Scale Shot
- Tera Blast
- Substitute
Besides “better than Iron Valiant Bulk” and some semantics, everything here can really apply to Iron Valiant.
It has less attack but has much stronger moves, it’s naturally slower but has Booster Energy/Quark Drive, and instead of Nasty Plot it has Sword Dance and also Calm Mind because Iron Valiant can go both ways offensively. Unless Darkrai gets a massive buff with DLC or if there is a massive roadblock introduced for IV (like that peach pokemon teased in the DLC becomes a Poison type immune to Psychic or something), IV would likely be banned first.
oh good lord, i didn't even realize it got scale shot. this thing's going to be baxcalibur 2: electric baxaloo starring roost mcsubstitute and featuring a soundtrack by the hit alt-rock collective freeze-dry and the specs. no way in fuck is this thing staying in the tier
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"Expansive movepool" in what way? Its 5th best attacking move is Thunder
Thank god that the council actually knows what they are doing and didn't unban sneasler. The council is the entirety of the actually qualified playerbase.
Lily and Star being the exceptions
ok now for my actual opinions:
- shouldn't have been an initial drop honestly. I don't think he's the problem in the question of hazard stacking, but his ban directly contributed to it becoming a bit worse (in terms of viability). Gliscor should have been unbanned after Gholdengo gets a ban from a suspect (which will definitely happen right guys?) - I don't like this and I don't expect it to last long, but hey, anything could happen. - It is the matchup moth but a big issue it has is that you have to choose your tera in such a way where you beat some things but lose to others, and when the things you beat in base form and the things you beat tera'd are on the same team (i.e. heatran and rillaboom), you're in for a rough time. That being said I'm down for it to get another shot in the shitshow that will be month 1 DLC2 - I've been adamant that I don't think this will be good for the tier. I stand by that opinion but after talking it over with a friend, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out fine. Darkrai has significant flaws and really only has 3 moveslots to work with because one of them is either nasty plot or trick. So while I don't think Darkrai will be a healthy addition to the tier, I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.
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You know what I find crazy?
Between the votes of all the Pokemon, the only Pokemon to get all unban votes was Darkrai.
Volcarona and Gliscor got 1 DNUB votes and Roaring Moon got 2.
Imagine going back to Gen 4, and telling someone that Smogon would think Gliscor is more ban worthy than Darkrai.
Between the votes of all the Pokemon, the only Pokemon to get all unban votes was Darkrai.
Volcarona and Gliscor got 1 DNUB votes and Roaring Moon got 2.
Imagine going back to Gen 4, and telling someone that Smogon would think Gliscor is more ban worthy than Darkrai.
Not sure why bother releasing Gliscor and Moon again when nothing has changed for them and I see all four mons banned again but well.
Kyurem, Triple Axel Weavile, Darkrai, Suicune, Roaring Moon, these are all things that have changed for Gliscor. Volcarona, Kyurem, Triple Axel Weavile, Darkrai, Suicune, and Gliscor being allowed also change things for Roaring Moon
Darkrai Test :)
I stared at the builder and thought about Darkrai vs two other fast, strong offensive darks, and after comparing them Darkrai doesn't seem as good as I thought it would end up being.
Roaring Moon wipes the floor with Darkrai.
Weavile is a closer comparison, Darkrai is probably better but it's pretty close.
I stared at the builder and thought about Darkrai vs two other fast, strong offensive darks, and after comparing them Darkrai doesn't seem as good as I thought it would end up being.
Roaring Moon wipes the floor with Darkrai. - Higher attack stat, Attack boosting Protosynthesis and stronger dark STAB make Roaring Moon deal significantly more damage.
- Moves such as Knock Off and U-Turn that add utility in addition to dealing damage and wear down checks obscenely fast.
- Option for Speed Protosynthesis, which turns Roaring Moon into the fastest pokemon in almost all games giving it much better revenge killing capabilities.
- Significantly better bulk, defensive typing and roost allow it easier setup and potentially multiple setup opportunities throughout the course of a game.
Weavile is a closer comparison, Darkrai is probably better but it's pretty close.- Both Weavile and Darkrai share the base 125 speed tier.
- Weavile has 125 attack vs Darkrai's 135 special attack, however the secondary Ice STAB and the extra base power of Knock Off fill the gap.
- Weavile has access to Ice Shard to revenge kill/dodge revenge kills, Darkrai has to rely on Sucker Punch off of uninvested 90 attack if it wants priority.
- Darkrai has better bulk and hypnosis.
- Darkrai has better coverage options.
"wait, really? gliscor?"
"yeah, i mean, it's crazy. even without roost, poison heal is super annoying. and of course, spikes helped a lot, it got to keep knock off which is just busted on anything that gets it, and losing defog didn't really matter to it that much, since we have that one ghost/steel with recover that prevents defog from removing entry hazards from both sides of the field. hell, it outclassed garchomp as a spikes setter so hard that the poor bastard joined heatran in uu. which, incidentally, fucked up uu worse than gyarados fucked up ru"
"what."
"i know, right? anyway, i'm off to go play smash bros, sephiroth is such a cool character. sora's kinda lame though. and i did get a lot worse during the pandemic because i didn't want to pay for nintendo online"
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We’re at about the 24 hour mark till release
Pretty disappointed with the fairly conservative unbans. I feel like this was the opportunity to retest and test a lot of things. It’s a massive jump in power coming, and a lot of Pokémon look different in more diverse and powerful meta.
Also can only on the council answer this, if the full total transfer list includes Pokémon that are previously banned but currently unknown (like a Marshadow or dracovish (not saying we’d unban them just examples) will there be another vote on them tomorrow ?
Pretty disappointed with the fairly conservative unbans. I feel like this was the opportunity to retest and test a lot of things. It’s a massive jump in power coming, and a lot of Pokémon look different in more diverse and powerful meta.
Also can only on the council answer this, if the full total transfer list includes Pokémon that are previously banned but currently unknown (like a Marshadow or dracovish (not saying we’d unban them just examples) will there be another vote on them tomorrow ?
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God please no, although I didn't want Darkrai to be unbanned, I'm still happy. Again, we would of had crown tundra 2: electric boogaloo.
I'm glad the council (mostly) was right in the foresight that stuff was going to get crazy, so we should limit the drops. Will be interesting to see if anything changes for Volcarona, it's been away from OU for 2 metagames, so it will either be balanced (maybe even undertuned? IDK, probs not) or still overpowered. Also, now we have the morning sun pokemon unbanned from OU so Solgeleo stans can shut up.
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