tidy up ain't what kyu has to worry about, remember that this mon has not just a multihit move but the multihittingest out of all moves
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Tidy Up's still appreciated because 75% HP Kyurem behind a Sub actually will survive the 7 hits of Population Bomb that hit it (it takes 3 hits at +0 to break a 101 HP Sub), whether removing the Sub or just for hitting hard enough
Today is the last day of the kyurem suspect WOOOO-
Anyway though once again I ask you all to dm me a pokemon that isn't ubers or kyurem and is ru or above. However unlike last time the person who also gives me the best name for this series that I am doing will be the one who's pokemon is talked about so get to it bruhs.
Edit: please do not put your name submissions as the subject of the dm
Anyway though once again I ask you all to dm me a pokemon that isn't ubers or kyurem and is ru or above. However unlike last time the person who also gives me the best name for this series that I am doing will be the one who's pokemon is talked about so get to it bruhs.
Edit: please do not put your name submissions as the subject of the dm
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with any luck we won't need to specify by the end of the week
Honestly I want kyurem to stay bro but we can agree to disagree.
Anyway since no one has emailed me a name that I like I will instead talk about the pokemon quaquaval which was the first pokemon (technically) dmed to me by a person named Jertsi. I will reveal a name that I came up with at the end of this post.
Quaquaval is a water fighting type ranked in uu. It has a solid 120 attack an ok 75 speed 85 hp 80 defense 75 special defense and 85 special attack. It usually uses the ability moxie which increases quaquaval's attack by 1 stage every time it kills an opposing pokemon. In the future I will no longer be listing all of a pokemon's stats and abilities for my convenience as well as the convenience of whoever reads this post.
One of quaquaval's biggest strengths is its vast movepool that takes advantage of moxie. It has multiple powerful attacking moves (such as close combat and knock off) as well as plenty of utility moves such as roost and swords dance. However its best move is aqua step. This is an 80 bp water type attack that increases your speed by 1 stage every time you use it (as long as you damage the opposing pokemon of course). Using these moves quaquaval can hit some of ou's biggest threats extremely hard such as kingambit gholdengo and gliscor incredibly hard. All of this combined with moxie allows quaquaval to sometimes end a game by itself if you use it correctly.
Unfortunately quaquaval is somewhat slow and not very bulky which means it sometimes dies before it has the chance to raise its speed with aqua step. This is a problem against multiple pokemon in ou such as kyurem meowscarda and especially ogerpon w who is immune to aqua step thanks to water absorb and hits back hard with power whip.
Even if quaquaval can boost itself to absurd levels of speed and attack it still isn't safe thanks to the plentiful amount of priority killers in the tier such as dragonite raging bolt and rillaboom. Its typing also hinders it as while water fighting is a pretty good dual type it is hit by too many pokemon in the ou tier supereffectively without the bulk to withstand them.
In conclusion while quaquaval can boost itself to extreme levels of speed and power it is not ranked ou proper due to its weak initial speed and mediocre defenses as well as its typing and attacks being exploited by multiple huge ou threats. If this were Gen 7 or 8 I am sure quaquaval would be far better but just like with maushold the insane speed power creep as well as the addition of plenty of new threats stop it from reaching its full potential. So what are your thoughts about quaquaval? Post them below.
Anyway I will probably stop doing this daily soon since these posts take a lot to type. But for now it is time to reveal the name of this series which is...(drumroll please)
THE RANDOM THREATS OF OU!!!
Anyway tomorrow we go back to whoever dms me first so byeeeeee
Edit: Holy crap this took 40 minutes to type wtf
Quaquaval is a water fighting type ranked in uu. It has a solid 120 attack an ok 75 speed 85 hp 80 defense 75 special defense and 85 special attack. It usually uses the ability moxie which increases quaquaval's attack by 1 stage every time it kills an opposing pokemon. In the future I will no longer be listing all of a pokemon's stats and abilities for my convenience as well as the convenience of whoever reads this post.
One of quaquaval's biggest strengths is its vast movepool that takes advantage of moxie. It has multiple powerful attacking moves (such as close combat and knock off) as well as plenty of utility moves such as roost and swords dance. However its best move is aqua step. This is an 80 bp water type attack that increases your speed by 1 stage every time you use it (as long as you damage the opposing pokemon of course). Using these moves quaquaval can hit some of ou's biggest threats extremely hard such as kingambit gholdengo and gliscor incredibly hard. All of this combined with moxie allows quaquaval to sometimes end a game by itself if you use it correctly.
Unfortunately quaquaval is somewhat slow and not very bulky which means it sometimes dies before it has the chance to raise its speed with aqua step. This is a problem against multiple pokemon in ou such as kyurem meowscarda and especially ogerpon w who is immune to aqua step thanks to water absorb and hits back hard with power whip.
Even if quaquaval can boost itself to absurd levels of speed and attack it still isn't safe thanks to the plentiful amount of priority killers in the tier such as dragonite raging bolt and rillaboom. Its typing also hinders it as while water fighting is a pretty good dual type it is hit by too many pokemon in the ou tier supereffectively without the bulk to withstand them.
In conclusion while quaquaval can boost itself to extreme levels of speed and power it is not ranked ou proper due to its weak initial speed and mediocre defenses as well as its typing and attacks being exploited by multiple huge ou threats. If this were Gen 7 or 8 I am sure quaquaval would be far better but just like with maushold the insane speed power creep as well as the addition of plenty of new threats stop it from reaching its full potential. So what are your thoughts about quaquaval? Post them below.
Anyway I will probably stop doing this daily soon since these posts take a lot to type. But for now it is time to reveal the name of this series which is...(drumroll please)
THE RANDOM THREATS OF OU!!!
Anyway tomorrow we go back to whoever dms me first so byeeeeee
Edit: Holy crap this took 40 minutes to type wtf
Quaquaval @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Aqua Step
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
I like playing with this set, don't think it's great but the occasional 6-0's are funny. I used to use choice band but tera water aqua jet is surprisingly threatening after a moxie boost and life orb let's you use it. If you can chip down raging bolt it also gives you an out to beat thunderclap.
Assault Vest felt ok but I can't imagine it's better than a damage item. Assault Vest users that can still raise both attack and speed are worth a look at, but I just don't think the duck has the stats for it.
I think Quaquaval has 2 main traps in OU:
1. The offensive spinner thing is a lie, it just sucks. Maybe there are some weird, bulky, roost spinner sets but I doubt it.
2. Setup is overkill. Swords dance Quaquaval sucks for the same reason swords dance/scale shot garchomp sucks, 2 turns of setup is not reasonable for offensive mons.
Quaquaval's strength comes from its ability to press an 80 power stab that also boosts both attack and speed all in 1 turn. Putting swords dance on it is just competing with a million other OU physical sweepers that do it better.
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Aqua Step
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
I like playing with this set, don't think it's great but the occasional 6-0's are funny. I used to use choice band but tera water aqua jet is surprisingly threatening after a moxie boost and life orb let's you use it. If you can chip down raging bolt it also gives you an out to beat thunderclap.
Assault Vest felt ok but I can't imagine it's better than a damage item. Assault Vest users that can still raise both attack and speed are worth a look at, but I just don't think the duck has the stats for it.
I think Quaquaval has 2 main traps in OU:
1. The offensive spinner thing is a lie, it just sucks. Maybe there are some weird, bulky, roost spinner sets but I doubt it.
2. Setup is overkill. Swords dance Quaquaval sucks for the same reason swords dance/scale shot garchomp sucks, 2 turns of setup is not reasonable for offensive mons.
Quaquaval's strength comes from its ability to press an 80 power stab that also boosts both attack and speed all in 1 turn. Putting swords dance on it is just competing with a million other OU physical sweepers that do it better.
I hate Quaquaval so much this thing always sweeps me or takes like 3 kills. Aqua Step, CC, Taxel is ridiculous coverage and CC is 2HKOing Mola after rocks (at +1 from Moxie). I need to get used to playing this thing, crazy buildercheck
All of this is true. It isn't the worst spinner in the world but you should definitely invest in an actual defensive mon for that job and you do not need swords dance on quaquaval (I was just giving an example). Sadly despite the potential of an aqua jet quaquaval it still has too much trouble trying to get the stats it needs but quaquaval certainly isn't unviable.
Quaquaval has cool niches. I've been trying out a Psyspam team, I had Tusk as spinner (bc i need for Polteageist to come in with no hazards) and it ran CC Knock Spin and Rocks but it was slow and lacking on the special side so I changed it for Treads with EQ Spin VoltS and Knock. But then one day I got completely blocked by a Ting-Lu, and I searched for mons with a good matchup and I think Quaquaval can pull its own as an attacker and spinner. Now my team is even more weak to Rillaboom but that's a problem for another time.
Use Upperhand. I've been using it ever since I used Quaag for a LONG period of time for fun. Unironically bodies Rilla and also Thunderclap.
I am not trolling. Does anyone think CB Cinderace would be good? It has good base 116 attack and STAB on everything because of Libero. It cleanly 2HKOs Lando and Pult with Pyro Ball and threatens a lot of threats with high jump kick and gunk shot. Pyro Ball also 3HKOs zama. Am I cooking?
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 148-175 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 196-232 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 171-202 (53.9 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 214-253 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raging Bolt: 146-172 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 163-192 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem: 330-388 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 113-133 (21.1 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 148-175 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 196-232 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 171-202 (53.9 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 214-253 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raging Bolt: 146-172 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 163-192 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem: 330-388 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 113-133 (21.1 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
I've experimented with it before, largely for surprise factor as enemies think its merely a hazard remover. It absolutely THRASHES things apart, especially if you Tera Fire Pyroball. In this set I used Tera Fairy as well with Tera Blast, it did amazingly well but I remember someone posted a Life Orb Swords Dance set sometime back. Never tried it but...
I think its worth trying, I remember months back when I used it the thing tore through anything that wasn't a raw Physical Wall resist.
As far as I know blizzard isn’t very common nowadays, but generally you have to predict around it when it gets a free turn and out offence it to limit it.
A specs/banded mon having no switch ins is not inherently an issue, that’s the point of using those items. Banded hoopa similarly has zero switch ins and is not broken. Specs kyurem is slower than most offensive mons and has a rocks weakness, so every switch in is a huge commitment.
Stall has blissey, and every other style can beat it through offense and good positioning.
AV Iron Crown is pretty good
Day 3 of The Random Threats Of OU
You know the drill dm me a random pokemon ranked ru or above and no ubers or kyurem. Due to taking too much time and energy this will be the last day I do this daily. From now on I will do this every Monday and Thursday. Anyway from now on it will be whoever dms me a pokemon first.
You know the drill dm me a random pokemon ranked ru or above and no ubers or kyurem. Due to taking too much time and energy this will be the last day I do this daily. From now on I will do this every Monday and Thursday. Anyway from now on it will be whoever dms me a pokemon first.
Well I got a response back QUICK and this time it will be lokix. The person who suggested it was Cyber-DJ.
Lokix is a bug dark type pokemon ranked uu which is an understatement as it is arguably the 2nd best pokemon in the tier. However in ou lokix has a much harder time due to a variety of reasons we shall get into later.
But anyway its strengths. Lokix has a mediocre stat spread but it is saved by having the ability tinted lens and the move first impression a move that has 90 bp (I thought it had way more bp tho wtf) physical bug move that has plus 2 priority and only works on the first turn lokix is on the battlefield. Thanks to this move lokix can hit opponents extremely hard even if they resist bug. Lokix also has a couple other really good moves such as sucker punch knock off leech life and especially u turn.
However lokix has a lot of weaknesses with one being ou specific. In ou it is forced to run choice band as without it first impression doesn't hit nearly as hard thanks to its barely average attack stat. This is a problem because it means usually lokix is only able to stay out one turn and then it can't do anything after. Thanks to its mediocre speed it also usually isn't able to use many other moves besides sucker punch (an even more shaky priority move) and u turn which only works if you guess right that your opponent is going to switch out.
Then there is it's susceptibility to hazards and status. Lokix takes approximately 24% from stealth rock and cannot afford to first impression into pokemon like moltres or zapdos who can survive the initial first impression and possibly burn or paralyze lokix in return. If lokix is burned especially it is basically dead weight with first impression doing even less damage than before which brings me to my next point.
The ou tier is hostile to lokix due to the sheer amount of pokemon that can take that first impression (even banded) without dying and doing plenty of damage back. There are plenty of bulky threats that can take first impression like great tusk zamazenta and most defensive pokemon. It is also resisted by a surprising amount of pokemon in ou which is quite insane when you think about it as while tinted lens hits through 2x resist foe neutral damage most of these pokemon can still take that hit and an even more shocking amount of pokemon quad resist bug type moves. It basically needs hazard support to kill some pokemon.
Finally there is the typing itself. While lokix's typing isn't bad it is weak to fairy rock fire flying and even bug itself making it susceptible to u turn. All of these types (except rock) are rather common attacking types in Gen 9 ou and it makes it hard for lokix to live very long. Even if it goes tera bug to push first impression even further it still only has the ability to take down one Pokémon at most before it needs to switch out unless it wants to risk dying to fire or flying (though it needs to switch out anyway due to the nature of first impression).
In conclusion though lokix can hit like a truck with banded first impression it is unable to kill way too many pokemon in tier at full health or sometimes even with hazard damage. It is also too reliant on choice band which means it can only stay in for 1 turn at most (usually). It is for those reasons that while lokix is viable in ou it will probably never be ranked ou proper (again). What do you guys think though? Share your thoughts about lokix below. That is the end though so byeeeee
Lokix is a bug dark type pokemon ranked uu which is an understatement as it is arguably the 2nd best pokemon in the tier. However in ou lokix has a much harder time due to a variety of reasons we shall get into later.
But anyway its strengths. Lokix has a mediocre stat spread but it is saved by having the ability tinted lens and the move first impression a move that has 90 bp (I thought it had way more bp tho wtf) physical bug move that has plus 2 priority and only works on the first turn lokix is on the battlefield. Thanks to this move lokix can hit opponents extremely hard even if they resist bug. Lokix also has a couple other really good moves such as sucker punch knock off leech life and especially u turn.
However lokix has a lot of weaknesses with one being ou specific. In ou it is forced to run choice band as without it first impression doesn't hit nearly as hard thanks to its barely average attack stat. This is a problem because it means usually lokix is only able to stay out one turn and then it can't do anything after. Thanks to its mediocre speed it also usually isn't able to use many other moves besides sucker punch (an even more shaky priority move) and u turn which only works if you guess right that your opponent is going to switch out.
Then there is it's susceptibility to hazards and status. Lokix takes approximately 24% from stealth rock and cannot afford to first impression into pokemon like moltres or zapdos who can survive the initial first impression and possibly burn or paralyze lokix in return. If lokix is burned especially it is basically dead weight with first impression doing even less damage than before which brings me to my next point.
The ou tier is hostile to lokix due to the sheer amount of pokemon that can take that first impression (even banded) without dying and doing plenty of damage back. There are plenty of bulky threats that can take first impression like great tusk zamazenta and most defensive pokemon. It is also resisted by a surprising amount of pokemon in ou which is quite insane when you think about it as while tinted lens hits through 2x resist foe neutral damage most of these pokemon can still take that hit and an even more shocking amount of pokemon quad resist bug type moves. It basically needs hazard support to kill some pokemon.
Finally there is the typing itself. While lokix's typing isn't bad it is weak to fairy rock fire flying and even bug itself making it susceptible to u turn. All of these types (except rock) are rather common attacking types in Gen 9 ou and it makes it hard for lokix to live very long. Even if it goes tera bug to push first impression even further it still only has the ability to take down one Pokémon at most before it needs to switch out unless it wants to risk dying to fire or flying (though it needs to switch out anyway due to the nature of first impression).
In conclusion though lokix can hit like a truck with banded first impression it is unable to kill way too many pokemon in tier at full health or sometimes even with hazard damage. It is also too reliant on choice band which means it can only stay in for 1 turn at most (usually). It is for those reasons that while lokix is viable in ou it will probably never be ranked ou proper (again). What do you guys think though? Share your thoughts about lokix below. That is the end though so byeeeee
One issue that I feel like people don't bring up about lokix is it's competition it has with Scizor. Obviously they aren't completely the same, Scizor is slower without stab on Knock Off while having a lot more defensive utility but the main idea is having a good matchup into offensive archetypes via strong priority. First Impression is objectively worse at this since any banded sets will have to swap out after and giving those free turns to offensive teams in a meta like SV OU very risky. Scizor doesn't have this weakness, however it lacks Tinted Lens so resist like Zapdos actually wall it more effectively. I won't go too in depth on this but the point is that there's competition in the first place, and to have competition in an already really niche role of priority spam revenge killer isn't great for the both of them. Also Lokix and Scizor aren't easy Pokemon to fit on teams without making the conscious effort of using them. It's kind of unfortunate that two pretty niche Pokemon overall have even less usage because of competition over a silly role lol.
So very true and I didn't bring scizor up because I felt it was unnecessary to compare them but I guess I was wrong lol
I’ve been experimenting with a Zamazenta set that I thought up, and it has worked wonders for me. It’s Assault Vest Zamazenta. Originally it was going to be tera ice in Chilly Reception for even more bulk, but I realized that’s a meme and it beats Kyurem just fine without becoming the worst defensive type in the game.
IMMOVABLE OBJECT (Zamazenta) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Stone Edge
This is pretty great coverage. It really wishes it had Heavy Slam, but it NEEDS these 4 moves. CC is STAB, Crunch is for Ghosts and it’s your best neutral option that doesn’t drop your defenses, Ice Fang is for Gliscor and Raging Bolt, Stone Edge for Moltres. The OU Fairies are all hit for at least a neutral chunk by these moves, except Val, who is the biggest issue for this set.
Yes I know I am not the first to come up with this, but I came up with this independently
here’s a replay that shows Zama doing some cool stuff (last 5 turns) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2211593858
ignore my elo I was up til 4:30 am last night testing a bad team and my play was… questionable (my Gliscor got OHKOed by a Delibird Hyper Voice and then I brought out Tusk to Ice Spinner and it got OHKOed too. it took me like 5 minutes to realize it was the opponent’s Horoark and not in fact a Delibird OHKOing my mons)
edit: aw man I gave up on reqs at 7pm last night because I thought that was when the suspect test ended. turns out I’m stupid and GMT-4 is EST, so I had another 5 hours.
IMMOVABLE OBJECT (Zamazenta) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Stone Edge
This is pretty great coverage. It really wishes it had Heavy Slam, but it NEEDS these 4 moves. CC is STAB, Crunch is for Ghosts and it’s your best neutral option that doesn’t drop your defenses, Ice Fang is for Gliscor and Raging Bolt, Stone Edge for Moltres. The OU Fairies are all hit for at least a neutral chunk by these moves, except Val, who is the biggest issue for this set.
Yes I know I am not the first to come up with this, but I came up with this independently
here’s a replay that shows Zama doing some cool stuff (last 5 turns) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2211593858
ignore my elo I was up til 4:30 am last night testing a bad team and my play was… questionable (my Gliscor got OHKOed by a Delibird Hyper Voice and then I brought out Tusk to Ice Spinner and it got OHKOed too. it took me like 5 minutes to realize it was the opponent’s Horoark and not in fact a Delibird OHKOing my mons)
edit: aw man I gave up on reqs at 7pm last night because I thought that was when the suspect test ended. turns out I’m stupid and GMT-4 is EST, so I had another 5 hours.
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it's also important to note that scizor's viability is likely to increase if, god forbid, kyurem stays in the tier. that would likely have an impact on lokix's viability since they're in semi-direct competition with each other, so it's likely that lokix will need to branch out into new and unexplored roles in the future if it wants to maintain a niche here
The Duck is a fun mon I used in early days of SV. The two sets to try are banded (Step, CC, then pick two of Jet, Wave Crash, or U-Turn) and I was fond of priority SD Moxie - SD, Aqua Jet (but you can still go for more traditional Aqua Step), Close Combat, Roost.
Fun mon. Its stats outside of Attack are a bit low though.
IDK, Banded Scizor is decent in OU. Tera Steel Bullet Punch cleans up a lot of shit and revenges a lot of offensive mons in the tier. And a steel -type spamming STAB on U-Turn + Knock off will always find something to do.
AV Zamazenta is super underrated right now, it does extremely well into traditional Bulky Offenses that rely on those Landorus/Gliscor/Tusk + Kingambit + Glowking cores. The Tera fire can definitely be substituted for Tera Dark which I normally use to break through easier vs Glowking and Gholdengo. Also I don't think the Tera Fire is that great on this set since you aren't beating Iron Valiant with this anyways due to no Heavy Slam, and the burn immunity doesn't matter too much when you threaten the OHKO on Moltres as is so it only affects the matchup against Dragapult who already struggles to break through AV zama (let alone with Tera Dark). Maybe there's something I missed about Tera Fire for AV Zamazenta, if so let me know but yeah this set super threatens Bulky Offensive and basically all non Alomomola balance teams.