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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
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I feel like that’s another issue. Water absorb clod has its own issues, becoming fodder for subbing special attackers/plot dengo, and others, even though it’s still good into choiced mons.
Regardless, I don’t feel walking wake by its own is a huge problem. But when sun is involved, it becomes stupid, being able to almost perfectly patch up every current issue with Sun teams in the metagame. Great Tusk and Roaring Moon are already top metagame threats, and pairing them with another ridiculously hard to switch into special attacker that pressures most of their checks? Incredibly unfair and difficult to deal with. Water/Dragon/Fire is the certified Palkia coverage, and it’s still fantastic here. I don’t see this thing staying at all.
If you correctly predict hydro steam you can switch scarf Meow into WW in the sun and kill it with Play Rough.
252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 284-336 (83.7 - 99.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Obviously get's fucked by dpulse, flamethrower and draco if you get the predict wrong, but it is at least possible to switch in and you can revenge it.
252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 284-336 (83.7 - 99.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Obviously get's fucked by dpulse, flamethrower and draco if you get the predict wrong, but it is at least possible to switch in and you can revenge it.
Okay, you at least give a more valid explanation than just "passive pokemon bad". Revenge killing is very much a fair point. You'd have to sack a mon when playing HO/BO unless you're playing Azu, which restricts team building.
Yes, yes it does. EQ/Tox Clodsire loses to Air Balloon Dengo (Which is part of why I prefer Gastro over it), is setup fodder for my own breed of Sub Skeledirge (post Tera), Corviknight absolutely sits on its head all day, Garg carrying EQ murders it... There's a number of other, defensive Pokemon that can beat it. But then again, that's why Arceus made Gastro... And allows switching. lol
We were looking entirely at DEFENSIVE play.
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Meowscarada: 126-149 (43 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Meowscarada: 409-483 (139.5 - 164.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Meowscarada: 380-448 (129.6 - 152.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
All in the sun vs Specs. You'd have to force them into a Hydro Steam, otherwise you're playing a 33.33% to survive a hit from this thing.
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Finch just said about how Clod and co don't fit on HO so we're not just talking about defensive play and often in HO you have to sack to revenge.
There's very few offensive mons that can switch into banded pult and those that can are often screwed if it's specs pult for example. Also if you predict the wrong move you're likely to lose your mon switching into pult. Should we be looking to ban Pult?
Pult at least has to predict a good deal with things like Kingambit and Fairy types being common. There’s also the fact that it has a much worse defensive typing.
I would say that if Garg were to get banned, Dragapult would be very hard to contain without forcing a smaller pool of things as well. Quite a few people wrote in Dragapult on surveys even. But I don’t think it’s quite this tier now — I’d say it’s worth monitoring, but not quite broken.
Honestly, as of late I've been looking at Pult as a potential suspect.
Perks of Pult:
-Fastest non-Scarf Pokemon in the game
-Good offensive stats (120/100/142)
-Good offensive typing (Ghost/Dragon)
-Able to play MULTIPLE unpredicatable sets (Specs/Band/Screens/Mix/Sub DD)
-Invalidates Screens and Subs
-Has access to high priority (Sucker Punch)
Cons of Pult:
-Difficult to get in due to frailty (88/75/75)
-Tera dependent (unless Specs/Mixed. Phantom Force isn't a very good move.)
-Lacking offensive move pool
-Wonky defensive typing
Personally, I just really don't like Dragapult because of how many sets it can reliably pull off. Scouting it is a nightmare, as if you predict which set it is incorrectly, 90% chance you're losing a Pokemon on the spot. Are there checks? Sure. Are they reliable? No. If you predict Band and switch to a physically bulky Pokemon, but it's Specs, that mon is getting chunked and/or lost. Vice versa for Specs prediction. Mixed is its own bag of worms. The only be-all, end-all check to Dragapult is Tera Fairy Garganacl, but that loses to Sub DD Dragapult all damn day.
I played against TR Torkoal the other day. It was such a dumb meme team and the only thing that really kept it going was Tork itself.
Duuudeeeeee, this. Ruination + EQ is awesome on Ting Lu.
Torkoal is not really broken . Moreover , Sun is not the only way you can using Waking wake . It gets access to agility and hurricane , so you can even use it in rain , and as a pokemon , wake is really versatile . Its a strong presence in the tier under any of the two common weathers . Undoubtedly its better in the sun since it can get the +1 speed boost and the 1.5x boost to hydro steam . Outside sun though , it just got decent coverage and a strong base 125 sp atk which is not overwhelming by any means . It also loses to Kingambit outside sun if played well . Other than that Booster energy / scarf Valiant , RM under sun also provide for situational checks . Tera Fairy / Steel Roaring moon is another option which can take 1 hit from Wake .
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 1 ally fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 187-222 (55.1 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Life Orb Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 283-335 (76.6 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Passive mons like sp def clod can check Walking Wake . Sp def pex is also an option . Conclusion : I dont really find Wake to be broken so far , but my stance might change in the future if some crazy set pops up
The thing is that there are no real Revengekill options for Offense. Yea, offense plays around sacking things to certain mons to get your RK, but when a mon has good bulk with a typing that leaves only 2 weaknesses, and a blistering fast speed you just don't have the options available.
It's just +1 Moon & Valiant and a full health DNite that can take on this role, alongside AV Azu. And honestly, I find Scarf Valiant mid, as well as Booster Energy being a 1 time use for both Moon and Valiant so there just isn't really much on the offensive side you can do without saccing 2 mons to Wake, and when Wake can trade 2 for 1 that easily it's a problem.
Maybe stuff like Tera Fairy Booster Moth or Scarf Meow could work too but at that point can you really say that Wake is healthy lol
SO ultimately Offense is also pigeonholed into the same few mons to deal with Wake, it's just a different group from the mons Balance can pick (and they're less consistent on top of that), and offense generally doesn't have the resources to stall out sun
Edit: For the sake of the argument I'm just asusming Sun is up in these situations, Wake outside of sun is very manageable imo, but during sun it becomes a way bigger problem
It's just +1 Moon & Valiant and a full health DNite that can take on this role, alongside AV Azu. And honestly, I find Scarf Valiant mid, as well as Booster Energy being a 1 time use for both Moon and Valiant so there just isn't really much on the offensive side you can do without saccing 2 mons to Wake, and when Wake can trade 2 for 1 that easily it's a problem.
Maybe stuff like Tera Fairy Booster Moth or Scarf Meow could work too but at that point can you really say that Wake is healthy lol
SO ultimately Offense is also pigeonholed into the same few mons to deal with Wake, it's just a different group from the mons Balance can pick (and they're less consistent on top of that), and offense generally doesn't have the resources to stall out sun
Edit: For the sake of the argument I'm just asusming Sun is up in these situations, Wake outside of sun is very manageable imo, but during sun it becomes a way bigger problem
Torkoal is easily the most broken mon in the tier, that dog dominates all.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Torkoal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD anybody in Sun: over 9000 (9000-9001%) -- 9000% guaranteed to ohko
Pex is not an option, lmao.
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 172-204 (56.5 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Pex absolutely gets SMASHED by Specs Draco. If Rocks/Spikes are up, it's even worse.
1. Scarfers exist. Proto: Speed Roaring Moon also beats it. Azu beats it. Kingambit can beat it, if it isn't locked into Flamethrower/is Expert Belt set.
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 12 SpD Walking Wake: 338-398 (99.7 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 438-516 (129.2 - 152.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 1 ally fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 154-183 (45.4 - 53.9%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 176-207 (47.6 - 56%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
Dragapult can also beat it, if it isn't Proto: Speed, or in the Sun.
252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 504-592 (148.6 - 174.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
2. Never said Wake was healthy lmao. I openly said that it was new toy syndrome and in previous posts said it was a monster that will most likely get banned.
Not sure if you’re meming, but Specs Torkoal is indeed a legitimately scary breaker in Trick Room, capable of 2HKOing the likes of Clodsire, Dragonite, Gargancl and Skeledirge after using Tera fire. As Hatterene is usually the TR lead of choice, it usually gets its chance to fire off some Eruptions early game without hazards chipping into its (heh) firepower. The only real counterplay is Flash Fire mons.
It doesn’t hurt that with a speed stat of 20, it’s the fastest thing in the meta under Trick Room.
Your acting like Draco doesn't have SpA drop (I wouldn't use pex as a example though). The point of switching in regen mons is to tank the hit and then abuse the -2 (Pretty much why Latios was unviable last gen). Slowking is a good example as it can come in and slack that shit off or chilly and get free momentum.
I think Walking Wake is potentially balanced when the dex widens but for now I think its centralizes an already centralized tier. I'm not against centralization (its good thing in GSC and ADV) but Walking Wake is really hard to stop on sun and every non-Slowking answer have huge flaws as actual pokemon to be consistent.
As much as I like playing with Wake, I am definitely in agreement that it kind of needs to go. I fully expect council to QB it this weekend, and it should be able to come back when Dex opens up some more.
I was memeing whoever it was who replied to me as he didn't recognise that I was joking in my initial post but yes Torkoal under tr is terrifying. Also don't people usually lead sash Indeedee to set up TR and psychic terrain so the Torkoal can't be done by priority?
Straying away from the theorymon a bit, I'd like to discuss one of the tier's most divisive top-tier offensive threats and one of the most nuanced Tera users right now: Volcarona. I just finished working on my Offensive Volc analysis (many thanks to the C&C team for their guidance, by the way) and I think there's honestly a lot more to discuss than what a simple analysis can do justice.
The Mon Itself
For well over a decade (feel old yet?), Volcarona's been doing several variations of the same thing: it presses Quiver Dance and then it sweeps if it doesn't bump into a bad matchup. Dubbed the "Matchup Moth" due to its ability to either win a game outright or find itself accomplishing little to nothing, Volcarona has always had its place in OU from its debut in Black and White because it combines the amazing Quiver Dance with its amazing stats, unique typing, strong STABs, good coverage, and excellent utility movepool including reliable recovery to pick and choose its checks and counters. Volcarona's only real selling point is its access to Quiver Dance, sure, but it's so good at utilizing this move that it could thrive even in the metagames that predated Heavy-Duty Boots, in spite of its crippling 4x Rock weakness.
Volcarona has been a hot topic in OU for pretty much all of its existence because of that "Matchup Moth" title: it has counterplay and it physically cannot circumvent all of said counterplay with a single set (it would most certainly get banned if it could), but it has the means of circumventing individual mons among said counterplay with some tweaks to its moveset and stat investment and if it has the right set for the right occasion it can and most certainly will sweep a team outright. It's challenging to build a team that handles all Volcarona sets, but it's challenging to build a team around Volcarona in the first place due to the amount of support it requires... well, the latter was much more true prior to the introduction of Heavy-Duty Boots, but Volcarona still needs its teammates to cover the matchups it can't cover.
Volcarona's typing is a mixed bag: it has some shortcomings in that it's weak to Stealth Rock and Rock-type attacks in general as well as Water and Flying, but it's also a Bug-type with a 4x resistance to Grass, a neutrality to Fire, Ice and Fairy resistances, and a resistance to Bug moves including U-Turn while also being a Fire-type that isn't weak to Ground and that resists Fighting. Bug/Fire really isn't bad. In fact, it's quite a strong defensive typing outside of that brutal Rock weakness. That plus Quiver Dance's SpDef boost plus Volcarona's native Flame Body to punish contact moves collectively make it a mon with quite a lot of good defensive utility despite being a mon with a major defensive shortcoming that it has to run an item to work around.
How Terastallization Changed Volcarona
Volcarona has always been limited by its coverage and its typing's weaknesses. It has to run Quiver Dance and a Fire STAB is necessary to deal with most Steel-types reliably, but Volcarona had to make a tough choice between Giga Drain, Psychic, and (while the move still existed) a couple of Hidden Power variants. HP Ground dealt with Heatran and some opposing Fire-types, but Psychic dealt with Toxapex and Fighting-types while Giga Drain dealt with bulky Waters. And no matter what set it ran, Volcarona had to feat Rock moves, Water moves, and (to some degree) extremely powerful physical attacks. But Terastallization fundamentally changes Volcarona in every way, offensively and defensively. This gen, Volcarona is debatably better than ever; that's no mean feat when it's so strong in BW OU, has Z-Moves at its disposal in SM OU, and has experienced a massive resurgence in viability in ORAS OU despite finishing that gen as a UUBL mon.
Volcarona doesn't have to play at an inherent disadvantage now that Tera is a part of the equation: offensive sets can expand their coverage with access to newfound STABs in Tera Blast, can buff their existing STABs even further, and can do all this while dramatically changing the defensive profile that Volcarona lives and dies by. And it can do this while still maintaining its niche as a strong Quiver Dance sweeper with a great Speed tier, respectable bulk, and good STABs.
Terastallization is also a countermeasure against Volcarona, though. Most notably, we've been seeing Kingambit and Volcarona playing a sort of cat-and-mouse game of Tera types to try to force an advantage against one-another in SPL. Tera Fire has quickly become one of Kingambit's best options, eclipsing Tera Flying, since it resists Volcarona's STABs and becomes immune to Burns from defensive sets' Will-o-Wisp and all sets' Flame Body. This adaptation to more conventional Tera-Grass Volcarona led to Volcarona adopting new Tera types specifically to beat Tera Fire Kingambit. The big one, of course, is Tera Ground alongside Tera Blast. Everyone expected this to be amazing in a meta with Heatran, but we aren't there yet; but Tera Ground Tera Blast still maintains a strong hit against Clodsire, Toxapex, and most opposing Fire-types. Tera Flying Kingambit can handle Tera Ground Tera Blast, sure, but it has to play a dangerous game of risking a Burn against other Volcarona sets.
Breaking Down the Tera Type Index:
Volcarona is not one-dimensional in its abuse of Terastallization, as the official Tera Type index reflects. To briefly go over what each of Volc's many, many, many Tera types do:
The Common Tera Types:
The Situational (But Still Good) Tera Types:
- Grass, ft. Giga Drain: Grants Volcarona a crucial Ground resistance and gives it STAB Giga Drain. When run alongside Substitute and Giga Drain, Volcarona can PP Stall Clodsire's Recovers and outheal Substitute's damage thanks to that Earthquake resistance.
- Ground, ft. Tera Blast: Turns Volcarona's major Rock weakness into a resistance, gives Volcarona an Electric immunity, and grants Volcarona a powerful STAB that handles Iron Moth, Clodsire, Toxapex, and most Fire-types including the aforementioned Tera Fire Kingambit designed to handle most Volcarona variants.
- Fairy, with and without Tera Blast: It's a generally great defensive typing, especially on defensive sets with Wisp, but I actually think that Tera Fairy+Tera Blast on offensive sets deserves special mention as an underrated tech. I brought this up in my Analysis as a means of handling Dragon-types like Baxcalibur, Dragapult, Dragonite, and Garchomp, and I think this is very unexplored at the moment despite having a very real niche of taking out some of Volcarona's scarier offensive checks. Dragapult and Dragonite are very relevant targets, after all. Give this one a try!
In Short:
- Bug/Fire: Lumping these in together. Volcarona already has some pretty formidable STABs, so buffing them even further is always an option. Volcarona's typing as a whole is quite synergistic defensively, but getting rid of some of the dual typing's shortcomings can be useful. Removing its Water weakness with Tera Bug or its Flying weakness with Tera Fire has some situational defensive merit.
- Psychic, ft. the move Psychic: Clodsire is much more threatened by Tera Psychic+Psychic, as it's a solid 2HKO. Volcarona can use this to muscle past many Skeledirge variants, and it maintains super effective hits against Fighting-types like Quaquaval and Iron Hands while still hitting Pex and Clodsire. There's a use case for Life Orb on this, and it might even be usable on Indeedee Psychic Terrain teams? It's still a good option in general.
- Steel: Turning your mon into Registeel is kinda neat. A Poison immunity and Steel's amazing defensive profile can give Volcarona a lot more opportunities to set up a Quiver Dance or two.
- Water: Turning your mon into Suicune iskinda neat. Newfound Water and Fire resistances and a generally-good defensive profile help Volcarona set up more easily. Maybe Tera Blast is worth considering to hit Fire-types (including opposing Volcarona) and Clodsire?
- Rock, ft. Tera Blast: "I used the Volcarona to destroy the Volcarona." Hits Fire-types, Dragonite, and Baxcalibur very hard so it's more than just an anti-Volc tech, but if there's one thing Volcarona appreciates it's the opposing Volcarona being removed after the two engage in a Quiver Dance war that would typically depend on one of them critting the other.
Volcarona is extremely polarizing right now, and for good reason. This is the first time in a very long time that the esteemed Matchup Moth can win pretty much all its bad matchups, albeit not with a single set, and the sheer unpredictability of Terastallization as a whole is put on full display with Volcarona specifically since it has a bare minimum of nine viable Tera types. Hell, I even think there's room for stuff like Tera Flying+Hurricane or Tera Electric should the metagame shift in that direction. But I can't help but feel as though it warrants more discussion than just "is it problematic?" since Volcarona, for how polarizing it is, has a lot of room for nuance and expression right now. I was very surprised to find that Tera Fairy+Tera Blast wasn't talked about a lot, but I opted to include it as a viable option on an offensive set because of how much potential merit it has offensively for how good it is defensively, and I quite like its role in this tier despite it being something to keep an eye on.
Discussion Points:
I'd like to propose a series of questions to anyone who would like to answer any or all of them:
What's your favorite Volcarona set right now? Bulky, 3-Attacks Offensive, Sub+Giga Drain, etc.
What Tera type do you prefer on your Volcarona sets?
What Tera type Volc could or does utilize well do you think is being underrated right now?
What teammates do you like running with your Volc currently?
If you build teams that Volc doesn't fit on, what are you running to keep its many sets in check?
First of all, this is an awesome post. Really nice job with this.
As for the questions...
1. I really like Bulky Volc with Tera Water right now. As you said, Fire-Bug is a pretty solid defensive typing, and giving me the ability to check all of Iron Valiant, Scizor, Meowscarada, Kingambit, Gholdengo, and to an extent even Great Tusk is outstanding and highly valuable on any teams. Morning Sun is great for giving this thing reliably recovery, and Will-o-Wisp has allowed me to 1v1 crazy shit like Garchomp and Roaring Moon. I spam this on BO and, even in games where I had no plans of winning with Volc, it can find the chance to set up once and it can easily snowball out of control.
2. I can see the merit of Tera Grass and Ground, but I think Water is generally the best bet. Water's just such a sound defensive typing that I can't see how you can go wrong with it. Sure, it doesn't help against Garg but you're never getting past Garg with Bulky Volc regardless. Other than that, you really bolster your matchup into shit like weather teams and Iron Moth. I haven't tried Tera Fairy yet (I probably should tho), but I've had a ton of success with Tera Water.
3. I think that we've generally found the best Tera types for Volc at this point. Fire and Bug boost STAB damage; Grass, Ground, and Psychic flip defensive matchups; and Water, Fairy and Steel turn you into a formidable tank. I guess you could fuck around with something stupid like Tera Dragon or Tera Electric but I do think we've pinned down the best ones.
4. Kingambit makes for an EXCELLENT teammate for Volcarona. Two of Volc's best checks include Garg and Dirge, both of whom get completely stuffed by Gambit without Tera, allowing Volc to easily clean up house. In turn, Volc can beat up Corviknight and cripple Great Tusk to give Gambit freedom to wreck shit later on. Garganacl, Rotom-W, and Slowking can punish Bulky Waters with Salt Cure, Volt Switch, and Future Sight respectively and, with the help of other strong wallbreakers like Iron Valiant, Dragapult, and Roaring Moon, bowl over entire teams.
5. Most of Volc's best checks are wholly dependent on what Tera it's running. Dirge and Ceruledge stop this shit cold unless it's running Tera Ground, Garg stops it hard unless it's Ground or Grass, Pex can't beat Ground, Psychic, or Steel (or at all if it doesn't have Toxic), Slowking can't take Bug, Grass, or Water, and Rotom-W and Bozo get worn down over the course of a game (and lose to Tera Water or Grass). Overall, I think be best check is one of Garg or Dirge because they can turn Volc into am opportunity to set themselves up as it flails helplessly to stop them - of course, if the Tera provides.
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there aren't any scarfers in this meta that can outspeed walking wake if it gets the proto boost on speed and valiant's speed boost is only once per switch-in (since who the hell runs scarf valiant). not that hard to play around, just force it out with another sun abuser beforehand so wake can outspeed it with the sun up later. it's only really +1 roaring moon that consistently answers wake under sun, and even that's not easy to fit as an offensive check onto weatherless teams, especially since the standard DD variant on HO structures loses to wake rather consistently. the other two you mentioned are much less efficient at answering wake, azumarill eats a massive chunk from hydro steam and gets 2HKO'd after stealth rock. and are you seriously relying on wake getting locked into draco meteor for kingambit to check it? who is even staying in on gambit when you're locked into a resisted hit?
But if you close your eyes
Does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?
Short arms? Check.
Drastically disparate upper and lower body? Check.
"Its damage is fine, just switch in something that's immune to its attacks"? Very much a check.
But if you close your eyes
Does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?
Not really to be fair, and I'd be shocked if it's quickbanned I think it deserves a suspect test, but I'm fine regardless of the results (because I do think there's some sort of action needed) but simply put:
Fishious Rend = is 85 x 2 (If it moves first) = 170 x 1.5 (Strong Jaw increases bite based attacks' by 1.5x) x 1.5 (STAB) = 382 Attack Power
Hydro Steam = 80 x 1.5 (current weather is Sunny Day) x 1.5 (STAB) x (1.3 Proto if you're getting Sp.Att boost) = 160 Attack Power / 208 Attack Power (Proto boost)
382 > 208 by a lot (so you can't really compare it)
It is my opinion that Walking Wake is evidently broken. Not only does it, as mentioned previously, force a very limited selection of mostly defensive measures to check it (though all of these can be bypassed with different set, and most of them are suboptimal sets/Pokemon in the current meta), it is also just far too strong. Specs is a nigh-unwallable breaker with decent bulk, great typing, absurd power, and a very respectable speed tier, and Booster Energy+Agility sets are terrifically effective at cleaning.
No need for a suspect test, I think a quick ban is more than warranted.
No need for a suspect test, I think a quick ban is more than warranted.
This is definitely more of a complimentary point, since I 1000% agree with you, but I do think it's funny that SpA Hydro Steam actually hits harder than Fishious Rend in sun.
Not even by much (208 vs 191!), but if anything gets the weird dog banned, it's definitely going to be the sheer power of that particular interaction.
1. I've never been a fan of EBooster Valiant. It's a wasted item slot, thus I'd rather have Scarf on it over EBooster.
2. Various people run Scarf Valiant. I used to run it to beat Chien Pao when it was still legal. (Yes, call me bad if you want, at least I'm having fun going against the grain and trying to be creative rather than just sitting on a stump and refusing to adapt.)
3. Moon forces it out, yes. But it doesn't want to come in on a Draco Meteor. Draco smashes Moon if you're greedy enough to hard switch into it.
4. Azu does well enough against it. Also where tf are you getting 2HKO after rocks???
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill in Sun: 99-117 (29 - 34.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill in Sun: 74-87 (21.7 - 25.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
tf are you on, Corvi?
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