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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Because you should almost always be investing in torkoals defense over its attacking stats, and BP naturally compliments that while also hitting the rock types that resist fire moves. This only gets better as a move the more popular Ttar is in OU, as it does pretty heavy damage and helps against the sand matchup (unless hippo is the primary sand setter, of course)
I've been playing a bit now that Walking Wake has dropped and I think it's a great addition to the metagame. I know I usually have some unorthodox takes on OU metagames but I personally think it isn't too broken, as it definitely has counterplay. Things like blissey and spdef scream tail wall it, and if it's running specs it gets scared out by a lot of things like pult, iron valiant, etc. It also deals with obnoxious mons like gholdengo and gargancl.
This is a sun balance team I made with Walking Wake and I think it's pretty good https://pokepast.es/4bd74f9bb9e6268f if you guys wanna try it out. I tested it a bit today and it seems very strong
This is a sun balance team I made with Walking Wake and I think it's pretty good https://pokepast.es/4bd74f9bb9e6268f if you guys wanna try it out. I tested it a bit today and it seems very strong
earth power also does that, as wells as the things i mentioned befored
The last sand team I saw on the OU ladder was from the times when Houndstone was legal
Not having Spin on your Tusk puts you into a bad position, as your Tork is now forced to come in onto hazards and get taken off the board insanely quickly.
Why tf is your Walking Wake Naive and not Timid? That makes zero sense. All of your attacks are Special. It's also missing its last 4 EVs.
Garganacl is missing its last 4 EVs as well.
Otherwise, the team looks okay. Pretty passive team though.
Breloom has positive match ups into a number of common relevant pokemon, from common darks like Ting Lu and Greninja, to bulkier staples like Garganacl, Dondozo and RotomW. The access to spore makes it irritating to actually switch into. It doesn't struggle with the bulky walls that do answer it, because outside Amoonguss (who can be beaten by tera fire), none of them like being put to sleep. Loom is frail and takes more care to use, but it has a lot of practicality and a fairly high ceiling in effectiveness if used well.
Regarding Scizor, it struggles far more with common pokemon. Its priority isn't as useful as it used to be, and offensive sets struggle significantly with a number of top defensive pokemon (especially unaware mons). And it's a mid at best defogger with no recovery. Scizor really was at its best early in the gen but its just not that great anymore and I don't see it coming back to consistent use unless people innovate some unique new way for it to be used that only it fulfills
This is like the fifth time you're saying this?
Breloom has amazing priority and is the best sleep inducer in the tier. It's no top tier but it has a valid place and fulfills that place very well
About Torkoal: I mean it's passive but when you choose to run sun, having the role compression of hazard setting and removing in your weather setter is great. No other weather has that. Yawn and WoW give great utility alongside that. It's not THE reason why sun is so good right now, but if we only had Ninetales, I doubt sun would be as powerful as it is now
Oh, so you know all the 465357 flying mons?
Name all of them
Anyways, theorymonning time!
CHOICE BAND
Dondozo @ Choice Band
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water/Ice/Dragon/Electric/Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Order Up/Tera Blast
This in theory, is a strong surprise attacker. Wave Crash has high power and hits hard due to the combination of STAB, good attack and choice band boost and can surprise many neutral switchins. Ice fang freezes switchins like meowscarada, and hits others such as Dragapult and has good synergy with wave crash. Earthquake has high power and brilliant super-effective and neutral coverage, and is to an extent spammable. Order Up rounds up the moveset due to its great neutral coverage along with hitting dragons, especially the ice-neutral Baxcalibur hard. Tera blast can alsobe used with the Tera types in italic to suit your needs. Electric hits waters and Dark hits Gholdengo and also has great coverage.
Out of curiosity, why not just run Avalanche over Ice Fang?Oh, so you know all the 465357 flying mons?
Name all of them
Anyways, theorymonning time!
CHOICE BAND
Dondozo @ Choice Band
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water/Ice/Dragon/Electric/Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Order Up/Tera Blast
This in theory, is a strong surprise attacker. Wave Crash has high power and hits hard due to the combination of STAB, good attack and choice band boost and can surprise many neutral switchins. Ice fang freezes switchins like meowscarada, and hits others such as Dragapult and has good synergy with wave crash. Earthquake has high power and brilliant super-effective and neutral coverage, and is to an extent spammable. Order Up rounds up the moveset due to its great neutral coverage along with hitting dragons, especially the ice-neutral Baxcalibur hard. Tera blast can alsobe used with the Tera types in italic to suit your needs. Electric hits waters and Dark hits Gholdengo and also has great coverage.
*has that anymore*
Pelipper weeps for its Defog sets
Pelipper never learned Rocks though. Not that is relevant though, I think running both Rocks and Spin on Torkoal is a waste, it's not living enough to do both. Spin + Rocks works very well on just Treads and Tusk, Torkoal needs to stay alive the longest possible time and offensive moves and Yawn work better for that (or Restalk + Lava Plume + Spin).
The main issue is that those things aren't really worthy in practice because all you are doing is wasting sun turns while Torkoal gets damage. Torkoal really hates not having a pivot move while also has terrible lead match ups against common leads, even if you use something like overheat + eject pack you lose the extra sun turns of heat rock or Torkoal gets destroyed by hazards.
I am honestly surprised no one tries Tera Fire Donbozo, specifically to stuff opposing Volcarona (and to dodge Wisp/Flame Body burns.) Also helps to body block Ceruledge, chunk Corviknight (Electric also does this), nuke Air Balloon Dengo, delete Iron Leaves, chunk Amoonguss without making contact, and actually able to deal big damage to Orthworm.Oh, so you know all the 465357 flying mons?
Name all of them
Anyways, theorymonning time!
CHOICE BAND
Dondozo @ Choice Band
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water/Ice/Dragon/Electric/Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Order Up/Tera Blast
This in theory, is a strong surprise attacker. Wave Crash has high power and hits hard due to the combination of STAB, good attack and choice band boost and can surprise many neutral switchins. Ice fang freezes switchins like meowscarada, and hits others such as Dragapult and has good synergy with wave crash. Earthquake has high power and brilliant super-effective and neutral coverage, and is to an extent spammable. Order Up rounds up the moveset due to its great neutral coverage along with hitting dragons, especially the ice-neutral Baxcalibur hard. Tera blast can alsobe used with the Tera types in italic to suit your needs. Electric hits waters and Dark hits Gholdengo and also has great coverage.
Also, if I may suggest another thing, take your spread from 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def to 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Speed. This will help you outspeed opposing slow af mons like other Bozos, Amoonguss, Garg, Pex, Quag, and Slowking. (You'll need a fair bit more if you want to outpace Gastro.)
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Torkoal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Sun: 283-334 (55 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Torkoal Solar Beam vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Walking Wake: 188-222 (54.9 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Torkoal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl in Sun: 175-207 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Torkoal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 348-411 (48.7 - 57.5%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
Anyways, theorymonning time!
CHOICE BAND
Dondozo @ Choice Band
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water/Ice/Dragon/Electric/Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Order Up/Tera Blast
This in theory, is a strong surprise attacker. Wave Crash has high power and hits hard due to the combination of STAB, good attack and choice band boost and can surprise many neutral switchins. Ice fang freezes switchins like meowscarada, and hits others such as Dragapult and has good synergy with wave crash. Earthquake has high power and brilliant super-effective and neutral coverage, and is to an extent spammable. Order Up rounds up the moveset due to its great neutral coverage along with hitting dragons, especially the ice-neutral Baxcalibur hard. Tera blast can alsobe used with the Tera types in italic to suit your needs. Electric hits waters and Dark hits Gholdengo and also has great coverage.
i've seen offensive dondozo once before and it was running a tera dragon outrage set with lum berry. honestly seems decent as a surprise factor but i cannot imagine it'd have much utility outside of that. with that being said, i am definitely interested in trying this set out for myself sometime in the future since it looks like a really fun way to throw opponents off once their dondozo answer takes 80% from wave crash
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Outside of being a random revenge killer or a cheese Sandstorm Pokemon, not really.
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Tera Grass Volcarona: 126-149 (33.7 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Tera Ground Volcarona: 62-74 (16.6 - 19.8%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Tera Normal Dragonite: 55-64 (17 - 19.8%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Normal Dragonite: 109-129 (33.7 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (if Multiscale is broken)
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Grass Ceruledge: 83-99 (23.4 - 27.9%) -- 83.9% chance to 4HKO
It just doesn't quite have the damage to stop them cold in their tracks. Especially Tera Ground Volc. Of course, without Tera, Accelerock does pretty damn good... But generally they would Tera in your face.
In other topics, do you guys feel that our Unaware squad are absolutely necessary in the current meta game environment? (Bozo, Dirge, Clod.) It feels like we need at least 1 of these in our team almost at all times JUST to be able to have consistency vs various set up threats like Dnite, Volc, SD Gambit, DD Pult, etc.
Any time I try to build without Dirge, I always end up losing to Volc/Dnite. While I love Dirge to death, running a double Fire setup on a team just doesn't feel nice.
Not at all actually, sometimes I use one of the 3, but I'm normally a BO/Balance type of guy and get around with stuff like whirwind ting Lu, my own sweeper, a status mon, some variant of meowscarada, garganacl and/or gholdengo, sure, there are times when I do lose because I gave the sweepers time, but most of the loses I have is because of either skill issue from my part or the opponent is packing Garganacl
In my opinion they are in a bad spot rn, there are too much choice band/specs and proto abusers that doesn't care about unaware so they aren"t as effective in this meta, yeah Volc is scary but I have noticed that a lot of teams are using red card on regen mons to force sweepers out and then avoid getting into a position where the sweeper can set up again.
Personally I just use Ting Lu with whirlwind in early/mid game and play super agro in the late game.
I'd like it if it could, since it's my favorite Lycanroc form and Tough Claws can actually give it pretty amazing damage output. What I've had the most success with is Swords Dance/Taunt/Accelerock/Close Combat and a Focus Sash, funnily enough.
We need to prioritize things before we get there, lets first ban Walking Wake and then we can put all our focus to Garganacl (as long as home doesn't come out in the next 2 months) or it'll be postponed [suspect test] again.
Is it just me or since WW was released Greninja isn't seeing much usage? I haven't seen it much, like 1 or 2 at most. Hope WW is not the reason my boy gren drops to UU 
What I'm seeing is that Meowscarada usage raised a lot lately so I assume it is the main reason, Meow is faster and that is most optimal for their role.Is it just me or since WW was released Greninja isn't seeing much usage? I haven't seen it much, like 1 or 2 at most. Hope WW is not the reason my boy gren drops to UU
I love catching opposing Meows off guard in a lead game with Scarf Cinder. You just surprise no u them and they die.
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