Volc feels pretty good, ngl. There were many games where I was at a disadvantage and then sent out my Volc, setup a QD, and reverse swept pretty easily. I think what makes it feel better than the CT meta isn't just tera (certainly helps but normally my Tera management w/ it was quite poor) but also lower Knock Off and Toxic distribution and no Heatran / Fini, which gives it more midgame utility to spread burns on mons like Kimgambit and D-Nite. I thought solo Fiery Dance would be a meme, but when playing I was able to beat 4x resist like Walking Wake w/ the move, especially if backed up w/ support from T-Spikes (and this was w/o Tera lol). Morning Sun being only 8 PP sucks though, since 16 PP Recovery last gen let it stall out some moves like CB Victini Bolt Strike. I still kinda think it was more busted last generation esp in the IoA meta, but that doesn't stop it from being excellent in this meta as well.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Volcarona is always going to be a hot button topic for players here, honestly. Gen 5-7 it did alright. But once HDB and then Tera came out, Volc shot up from "decent" to "literally a top tier threat". Doesn't matter if it's the phys def QD 3 Attacks set, the offensive QD set, or Wisp Mono Fiery Dance bulky set... Volc just does Volc things and can stupidly sweep things very easily if you don't have a decent tank to stop it, or Unaware.
But reading through this and listening to BKC talk about Volc really made me think... There's a lot of Pokemon that I commonly use on my teams specifically to beat various hyper annoying threats.
- Checks DD Dragonite, non-Ground/Water Volc, non-Specs Valiant, Garganacl, DD Bax, Curse Bozo, DD Dragapult, Iron Leaves, Amoonguss, Iron Moth, and other Skeledirge.
- Checks Specs Greninja, Rotom-Wash, Scarf/Balloon/Bulky Dengo, Gargancl (with Covert Cloak), Specs Dragapult, Walking Wake, Hydreigon, and other Gastrodon.
- Checks Garchomp, Meowscarada, Clodsire, Azumarill, Dragonite, Iron Leaves, Iron Treads, physical/mixed Valiants without TBolt, and Toxapex.The rest of my team is always built around these and trying to patch up other issues (namely adding in an additional spinner, a Spore blocker, etc.) While this is a very ""passive"" core, it's damn near never steered me wrong, and a number of these overlapping threats kind of shows either what really instills annoyance/fear into me in the team builder, or is something debatably problematic without a proper answer to it. (Seriously, there's a number of overlaps here. Dnite, Valiant, Garg, Pult...) And a large number of these are Pokemon that can -- or will absolutely -- set up.
Double posting, woo.
I know we're smack dab in the middle of suspect testing Walking Wake, but I want to echo this; Please QB Revival Blessing. It's such an infuriating, unskillful, and uncompetitive move. Nothing in this game makes me saltier than seeing someone use Revival Blessing. It makes me want to harm people, it's so frustrating. (I probably shouldn't say that, but that's how angry it makes me feel. I'd never actually hurt someone... But I'd probably break my console.)
I know we're smack dab in the middle of suspect testing Walking Wake, but I want to echo this; Please QB Revival Blessing. It's such an infuriating, unskillful, and uncompetitive move. Nothing in this game makes me saltier than seeing someone use Revival Blessing. It makes me want to harm people, it's so frustrating. (I probably shouldn't say that, but that's how angry it makes me feel. I'd never actually hurt someone... But I'd probably break my console.)
Tera is the big topic, and rightfull noy so, but there is so much jank this gen it makes the power creep look minor. And said creep is what initially turned me from this gen (all the fun mons like Meowscarada keeps me around). Then we have Last Respects? Rage First? Chi-Yu? Not the biggest fan of hyper offense, don't want it nerfed but don't wanna be pigeonholed into it, dig?
I was afraid stall would be dead what with the recovery nerfs, but nope! We have Saltpile, which I am convinced was made for the sole purpose of making fun of the meta. Everything that everyone hates about stall, all in one convenient package! And it's a Rock type, one of the worst defensive types, just to rub it in. Fuck even the starter gets Fiery Dance +, and that's the most balanced of them all
So we get a hyper offensive meta and stall on the same team, at the same time even!
I’d honestly argue that revival blessing is actually quite skillful which is something I’d never thought I’d say. It’s only on mediocre Pokémon, you only have 1 shot unless you want to sacrifice an item slot, and the revived Pokémon is only at 50% health. Often times I try to use the move only to switch to a Pokémon that can actually do things and isn’t only used for one move.
Time for another theorymon, this time choice specs 
!
Tyranitar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Power Gem
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
Specs Ice Beam OHKOs standard offensive great tusk. And Tyranitar also has the secret ingredient to balance crushing: STAB dark pulse, even when Tyranitar does not have the best special attack, it could still output great damage. Power Gem, Ice Beam and Earth Power’s combined coverage has literally 0 resists.
!Tyranitar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Power Gem
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
Specs Ice Beam OHKOs standard offensive great tusk. And Tyranitar also has the secret ingredient to balance crushing: STAB dark pulse, even when Tyranitar does not have the best special attack, it could still output great damage. Power Gem, Ice Beam and Earth Power’s combined coverage has literally 0 resists.
NGL, it can be pretty frustrating to fight, esp certain cheese variants of Pawmot like Leppa Berry Nuzzle Restalk that just chains Revival Blessing after Revival Blessing while also not dying instantly to moderately powerful attacks like Cinderace's Pyro Ball and cheesing its way w/ BS paralysis procs + potential misses (source: I fought this once and remember the pain) but leaving the Pokemon at 50% is pretty bad, esp if its a slower Pokemon. Most of them would still end up being fodder even after being revived for faster mons like Pult, meow, etc. Even in the earlier example, where I got haxxed out, I still believe I won the battle since the opp could only revive a limited # of mons and they were slow mons that were easily revenged like Ape.
Speaking of evil sets, here's one I faced on the ladder the other day:
Orthworm @ Quick Claw
Ability: Earth Eater
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shed Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Filler
Ability: Earth Eater
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shed Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Filler
It's pretty mindless. You just play it on HO and click it once (once is all you really need) and now you've broken the spirit of the game, and the spirit of your opponent. IMO, if you run Revival Blessing, you are a whole-hearted degenerate and deserve to step on legos for the rest of your life -- barefooted. (Not you in particular, just those who choose to run RB.)
While yes, in situations like that, it can be easily dealt with... But if it's like super late into the game and both of you have already exhausted your resources, then suddenly they get to bring back any one or two threats they want, and there's nothing you can do about it. It's extremely frustrating.
As someone I used to watch said once; "You do not make friends with [Minimize Drifblim].", "You don't make friends with people because you leave your opponents with a very sour taste in their mouth.", "After all of the flavours in the world after the game to have with your opponent, and you're going to choose salt as the desired outcome for all of these? I really hope you brought enough water because you're flinging yourself into a salt mine by going that route."
I would akin Revival Blessing's uncompetitive nature to that of Evasion spamming. It completely takes skill out of the equation and gives you a get out of jail free card (or two.)
Revival Blessing isn't a problem, I'd say. If it is, it's so far down the ladder of shit that needs to be acted on that it wouldn't hit my top five. Your only options for it are Pawmot, who is mediocre and only has utility in the completely different set of Choice Band Double Shock Tera Electric Wahey, and Rabsca, who is just as mediocre but without the part where you could squeeze some viability out of it. It's got one use unless you opt for a Leppa Berry just to make sure your user is even more inept, and the revivee only comes back with half health before hazards. Revival Blessing starts are completely manageable because using it is using a team with only 5 Pokemon but one of them has a second phase.
I completely disagree that it's as uncompetitive as evasion. If you spam Minimize, it is a matter of pure dice rolling if you proceed to win the game with no further interaction from there, or you get hit by a lucky 10% and all the effort is wasted. Revival Blessing is a large commitment for an effect that is powerful on paper, but in practice is extremely unwieldy to use and not guaranteed to flip the game around once you do.
I completely disagree that it's as uncompetitive as evasion. If you spam Minimize, it is a matter of pure dice rolling if you proceed to win the game with no further interaction from there, or you get hit by a lucky 10% and all the effort is wasted. Revival Blessing is a large commitment for an effect that is powerful on paper, but in practice is extremely unwieldy to use and not guaranteed to flip the game around once you do.
Then I must be the only person in the world who hates this move and wants it banned. /s
Edit: Now that I've calmed down a bit, I can more coherently put my thoughts together.
I've played Pokemon since Gen 3, and I've at least played every generation except for 8 (since y'all don't count BDSP.) I've played against other players since the early days of Gen 4. There's actually very few things in Pokemon that piss me off, but boy howdy do they REALLY piss me off. Especially when playing on cart. Those things include, in order;
1. Revival Blessing. The most uncompetitive thing to be made since Evasion stacking was a thing. Yes, Dynamax was a thing, but I'd rather play a game with Dynamaxing than I would with Revival Blessing. It's so damn tilting to be trying to outskill and outplay an opponent and then you just see THIS bullshit. Remember all that hard work you put into putting down that one or two sweepers they have? Yeah, that thing is back for round two and you most likely don't have the ability to take it on again.
2. Sleep spam. Seriously, VGC/BSS kiddies and their fuckin' sleep spam. I wish GameFreak would just give us the damn option to have an in-game Sleep Clause, because hooooly shit. If they don't give us Drowsy and Frostbite over Sleep and Freeze, these kids are going to ruin everything.
3. Bad kiddies playing with what Smog community mostly agrees is busted. You know the crap, box legendaries, funni fish, cheem poo, the banned Paradoxes... All THAT fun stuff. At least with this, we see it in team preview and I can just nope out of the battle immediately.
4. Consistently getting haxxed. I mean, we all deal with this, so it's like... Whatever. Game was ruined because game wanted to be a jerk. But this is by far the lowest of things that tilt me to the point of not being able to think straight.
I know that Revival Blessing is on some mediocre mons, but that doesn't stop it from being wholly uncompetitive. It breaks the whole flow of the damn game that existed since Gen 1. When you put a mon down, it STAYS DOWN. You don't just whip out the Necronomicon and bring it back to life for round 2. It's such a bullshit, punishing thing to just watch some Hyper Offense player bring in Pawmot, click Revival Blessing, and now you lose because you can't deal with whatever they brought back because your check(s) to it are too weak at that point in the game. Or just gone.
Fuck Revival Blessing. Anyone who willingly uses it will forever be a degenerate in my eyes.
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You know what people, let's play a game
1) Garganacl
2) Shed Tail
3) Revival Blessing
4) Walking Wake
5) Volcarona
These are the 5 things people have been most eager to disscuss overall in hopes for action, and with HOME so close and with no time left to do proper investigation of these, let's just do a drunk rage game
try to organize what in your opinion feels the most to least offensive in your opinion, for example in my case, it goes like this
Garganacl>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shed Tail>Revival Blessing=Walking Wake>Volcarona
to me, garga is the AI art equivalent of doing war crimes, It's just too easy to pull off with insane reward, I can go on and on, but I felt like you people have heard me too much
Shed Tail/cyclizar/orthworm debacle is interesting to me because of the idea of tampering with the normal status quo + in starting to get tired of the cursed fucking teapot running around
Revival Blessing and Walking wake are 2 things I'm completely on the fence, the reasons being that with the former Its been a long time since I faced one on the ladder, so I forgot how it feels, on Walking Wake I honestly can't bring myself to give a shit, mainly because of University coming up, and I basically decided to save myself the trouble of getting my self-esteem even lower due to not being able to get reqs
On Volc, to me its the least problematic from all of these because its just the same old story, I basically feel completely sanitized against this thing's ability to just sweep whenever, I will admit that is cheese sometimes
1) Garganacl
2) Shed Tail
3) Revival Blessing
4) Walking Wake
5) Volcarona
These are the 5 things people have been most eager to disscuss overall in hopes for action, and with HOME so close and with no time left to do proper investigation of these, let's just do a drunk rage game
try to organize what in your opinion feels the most to least offensive in your opinion, for example in my case, it goes like this
Garganacl>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shed Tail>Revival Blessing=Walking Wake>Volcarona
to me, garga is the AI art equivalent of doing war crimes, It's just too easy to pull off with insane reward, I can go on and on, but I felt like you people have heard me too much
Shed Tail/cyclizar/orthworm debacle is interesting to me because of the idea of tampering with the normal status quo + in starting to get tired of the cursed fucking teapot running around
Revival Blessing and Walking wake are 2 things I'm completely on the fence, the reasons being that with the former Its been a long time since I faced one on the ladder, so I forgot how it feels, on Walking Wake I honestly can't bring myself to give a shit, mainly because of University coming up, and I basically decided to save myself the trouble of getting my self-esteem even lower due to not being able to get reqs
On Volc, to me its the least problematic from all of these because its just the same old story, I basically feel completely sanitized against this thing's ability to just sweep whenever, I will admit that is cheese sometimes
In order;
1. Shed Tail
2. Revival Blessing
3. Volcarona
4. Walking Wake
5. Garganacl
Yes, I am putting Volc over Wake here, but in all honesty Wake is actually on par with Volc. They're both teambuilder threats that are tedious to play around. You NEED a Red Card or Unaware Pokemon to beat it, but if it's one of two Teras (Ground/Water), you lose to it immediately, regardless of the Unaware Pokemon you chose. (Ground beats Clod/Dirge, Water beats Dirge, Tera Blast Ground/Fairy/Giga Drain/Bug Buzz all nuke Bozo). Not even Pex is safe vs this thing.
Wake is just as much of a threat, but doesn't dictate the need for Unaware. Instead, you need a solid, SpDef tank with Water Absorb and either the ability to take a Draco/Resist Flamethrower, or Tera into a type that helps vs those. My own Azu is a solid check to Wakes, but obviously that isn't the widespread set. At MINIMUM, you'd need Gastro/Clod to be able to effectively check Wake, which also lends itself to constraint in the team builder.
Shed Tail I've been over many, many, many times; It's just a badly designed, unhealthy move. It's Sub Pass in a single move, with the drawback of costing extra HP. Substitute by itself is a strong move on many Pokemon, and being able to pass one is scary in its own right. There's only two users of the move, but if Shed Tail didn't exist, they wouldn't have been OU at all. It's a gimmick, but an unhealthy gimmick at that.
Revival Blessing I've already gone over multiple times on this page, so I'll skip it.
Garganacl is another annoyance on the team builder (I'm not going to say threat because it isn't a true threat.) You either have something that can nuke it from orbit as it comes in, have something good vs it that can freely carry Covert Cloak, or have a good Substitute user that outpaces Garg and doesn't break on a single hit. Garg's only real pressure is in Salt Cure, and given how many ways there are to stuff it (having stuffed so many in my own time playing SV), I just tend to tune out Garg due to how my teams' cores are built. But like Wake and Volc, if you aren't expecting it and don't prepare for it, Salt Cure will make your life hell.
In order for terms of discussion:
1. Shed Tail
2. Walking Wake
3. Revival Blessing
4. Garganacl
5. Volcarona
I’ve been using Orthworm with H-Zoroark and it’s pretty evil ngl but Shed Tail needs to go imo.
1: Garganacl, who is an actual problem and has been exactly as much of a problem from the start. Innovation and meta shifts have only let it come up with more ways to stay relevant doing the same thing it always does.
2: Walking Wake, who is the reason Torkoal is going to be OU still after this month's viability rankings and then immediately drop to UU in May.
3: Shed Tail, could go either way but really I just want it banned so I can use Cyclizar again.
4: Volcarona, its flexibility with Tera is pretty shnasty but then so is a lot of stuff, and no matter what Tera it has at least some of its normal checks can still check it.
5: Empty space to complete the analogy in my last post.
6: Revival Blessing, which has yet to seriously impact the metagame in any way beyond being a cheesy gimmick strat with coin flip odds of failure versus a return to neutral. Not failure versus success, because that would imply that Revival Blessing is in any way a win condition you can reliably fiend for.
Garganacl>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shed Tail=Revival Blessing=Walking Wake<=Volcarona
Garg is the only issue of those on my opinion, salt cure is just the most brainless move on mons history while Garg has tools to get around its checks and the meta still has to put it on priority while teambulding because you can't afford not having a check against this thing, sadly it is getting Pao's treatment and the council isn't taking action when the community has support it for a while.
From the rest, Volc just does what it always does, it can beat it's counters but not all at the same time, you can call it "match up fish" but at the end of the day with all the options in the game every pick you make you do it hoping for a favorable match up, even The best stall team in SV hopes to no see certain things. That means we should ban stall too? of course not, the "match fish" is a thing we can't avoid in this game and actually it is part of what makes the meta evolve because it is a natural way to deal with popular stuff trying to take advantage of them. Also, Volc is different from Espharta in this sense because Espartha needed less variation on it's sets to break it's checks, while Volc can't break all it's checks with the same set and the counterplay against Volc is wider on both sides, defensively and offensively.
Shed tail is too inconsistent because Orth is awful, a 5vs6 in most of the time is far from ideal and most offense teams prefers to run a more useful mon than just a "free sub" that probably won't matter at all against a well built team.
WW suffers something similar to Shed tail, Torkoal is such a burden and it is easily exploitable while Wake struggles to get the momentum to get stuff done, will post a more detailed thing explaining why Wake is overhyped once I get reqs (tomorrow or the sunday depending on how lazy I will be this weekend) on the suspect thread.
For revival blessing is something similar, having to get Pawmot on the field to use the move is very exploitable and kills all your momentum, several mons can set up on his face or just don't letting revive somebody and even then, if it gets to revive somebody, the mon comes back at jus 50% and without its tera type if it tera'd so with hazards the revived mon has a "bring your priority or fastest mon please" sign on its face. When playing against it is way to impractical for your opponent because you can manage your positioning to either deny it or take advantage of Pawmot. The move would be way better if Pawmot killed himself after using it on my opinion
Garganacl>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Walking Wake>Shed Tail>Revival Blessing>Volcarona
Everyday question
when should sv ou ban Garganacl？
As Vice president (since yNot Mence took my job as president) of the Suspect Garganacl club I hope to say soon, but my guess is once Walking Wake gets suspected it'll probably take a minute since it takes a while to get a grip of the changed landscape. Simply put it'll be as soon as the community puts a target on it, or when the council feels like there's a need for it obviously based on surveys, etc.
But I think Walking Wake personally is more broken than Garganacl.
When I stop getting carried by it.
Ok, was bored so I decided to play more and got reqs with this team:
https://pokepast.es/c4d6f4347f0a82af
If any of you have questions/comments about the team I will read and answer tomorrow in the morning.
If any of you have questions/comments about the team I will read and answer tomorrow in the morning.
1. Walking Wake (only thing of the list I would ban for sure, won,t be getting reqs though).
2. Volcarona (has some merit for a Suspect, but not to the extent of Wake).
3. Shed Tail (Bad, will win once in a while, but needs skill without Cyclizar).
4. Garganacl (very undewhelming Mon as long as there is some Mon with Covert Cloak or Sub in the opposing team. Even without those, is a Mon you have to commit to Tera, not very different from Glaceon).
5. Revival Blessing (One user is better running a Band without the Move, the other Mon has terrible typing and mediocre Stats, won,t call the Stats bad because a Mon with another typing would use them well).
2. Volcarona (has some merit for a Suspect, but not to the extent of Wake).
3. Shed Tail (Bad, will win once in a while, but needs skill without Cyclizar).
4. Garganacl (very undewhelming Mon as long as there is some Mon with Covert Cloak or Sub in the opposing team. Even without those, is a Mon you have to commit to Tera, not very different from Glaceon).
5. Revival Blessing (One user is better running a Band without the Move, the other Mon has terrible typing and mediocre Stats, won,t call the Stats bad because a Mon with another typing would use them well).
Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
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Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 168 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Taunt
Beats many stall mons and fairy types with tera steel flash cannon
also 301 speed so it outspeeds tusk and other 300s and comfortably lives tonnes of 2x effective moves
Hello. Figured I can bring this up since its around 10-15% usage in last month, so while used it might still not be the best known stuff.
Lead Steel Beam - Sets by SZ and me
One of the big issues with standard lead Stealth Rock Iron Treads is its awful mu against Great Tusk, since it doesn't do much damage and can't keep hazards up unless it uses its tera. Steel Beam fixes this. Even if they lead Tusk and OHKO turn 1, you would have done massive damage for a teammate such as Kingambit to take advantage of. Steel Beam is of course also good for momentum. Some mu's and calcs
- Defensive Tusk won't OHKO so you can try to get Stealth Rock in case they Eq instead of spinning first. Either way you are faster thanks to Booster Energy so even if they do Rapid Spin you still get to Steel Beam next turn.
SZ's set
vs defensive 4 SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 192-226 (44.2 - 52%)
vs offensive 4 SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 192-226 (51.7 - 60.9%)
My set
vs defensive 252+ SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 283-334 (65.2 - 76.9%)
vs offensive 252+ SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 283-334 (76.2 - 90%)
- You outspeed so you can set up Stealth Rock and negate their Spikes. With my set if they happen to put up Spikes first then you Spin until they attack you (hence negating hazards) and then Steel Beam. You can also do this with SZ's set but it will take 2 spins
My set
0- Atk Iron Treads Rapid Spin vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 48-57 (16.3 - 19.4%)
252+ SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Meowscarada: 255-300 (87 - 102.3%)
SZ's set
252 Atk Iron Treads Rapid Spin vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 67-79 (22.8 - 26.9%)
4 SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Meowscarada: 172-204 (58.7 - 69.6%)
- My set OHKOs, SZ's KOs after an Earthquake
My set
252+ SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 332-392 (104.4 - 123.2%)
SZ's set
252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hatterene: 109-130 (34.2 - 40.8%)
4 SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 224-266 (70.4 - 83.6%)
- Thunder with Modest is able to 2HKO PhysDef. In general even against SpDef you can scare it out and keep hazards up.
252+ SpA Iron Treads Thunder vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 204-240 (51.1 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- Against opposing Iron Treads the Earthquake set is ofc a battle of speed ties. The Thunder set hard loses.
-Both do well. Naive does have a chance to get OHKOd by Earth Power variants.
252 SpA Glimmora Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Iron Treads: 294-346 (91.5 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Some other funny interactions: The Thunder set is hard walled by Cinderace, Gholdengo, Kingambit, and Sandy Shocks, but can surprise Pelipper or Dondozo. Steel Beam always OHKOs Iron Valiant and you live a non Fighting-type attack.
Even if they know its Steel Beam and don't let Great Tusk take damage then that's fine cause you will be able to set up Stealth Rock, which the physical set can't do against Tusk. Hope some of you can try it out:)
Lead Steel Beam - Sets by SZ and meOne of the big issues with standard lead Stealth Rock Iron Treads is its awful mu against Great Tusk, since it doesn't do much damage and can't keep hazards up unless it uses its tera. Steel Beam fixes this. Even if they lead Tusk and OHKO turn 1, you would have done massive damage for a teammate such as Kingambit to take advantage of. Steel Beam is of course also good for momentum. Some mu's and calcs
- Defensive Tusk won't OHKO so you can try to get Stealth Rock in case they Eq instead of spinning first. Either way you are faster thanks to Booster Energy so even if they do Rapid Spin you still get to Steel Beam next turn.SZ's set
vs defensive 4 SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 192-226 (44.2 - 52%)
vs offensive 4 SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 192-226 (51.7 - 60.9%)
My set
vs defensive 252+ SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 283-334 (65.2 - 76.9%)
vs offensive 252+ SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 283-334 (76.2 - 90%)
- You outspeed so you can set up Stealth Rock and negate their Spikes. With my set if they happen to put up Spikes first then you Spin until they attack you (hence negating hazards) and then Steel Beam. You can also do this with SZ's set but it will take 2 spinsMy set
0- Atk Iron Treads Rapid Spin vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 48-57 (16.3 - 19.4%)
252+ SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Meowscarada: 255-300 (87 - 102.3%)
SZ's set
252 Atk Iron Treads Rapid Spin vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 67-79 (22.8 - 26.9%)
4 SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Meowscarada: 172-204 (58.7 - 69.6%)
- My set OHKOs, SZ's KOs after an EarthquakeMy set
252+ SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 332-392 (104.4 - 123.2%)
SZ's set
252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hatterene: 109-130 (34.2 - 40.8%)
4 SpA Iron Treads Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 224-266 (70.4 - 83.6%)
- Thunder with Modest is able to 2HKO PhysDef. In general even against SpDef you can scare it out and keep hazards up.252+ SpA Iron Treads Thunder vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 204-240 (51.1 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- Against opposing Iron Treads the Earthquake set is ofc a battle of speed ties. The Thunder set hard loses. -Both do well. Naive does have a chance to get OHKOd by Earth Power variants.252 SpA Glimmora Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Iron Treads: 294-346 (91.5 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Some other funny interactions: The Thunder set is hard walled by Cinderace, Gholdengo, Kingambit, and Sandy Shocks, but can surprise Pelipper or Dondozo. Steel Beam always OHKOs Iron Valiant and you live a non Fighting-type attack.
Even if they know its Steel Beam and don't let Great Tusk take damage then that's fine cause you will be able to set up Stealth Rock, which the physical set can't do against Tusk. Hope some of you can try it out:)
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