I mean your not really relying on 30% poison touch u-turns to spread status , your relying on the 65% chance dire claw to spread status, the uturn is more just insurance policy against whatever bulky non-steel they switched in against dire claw and a way to keep momentum.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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I mean your not really relying on 30% poison touch u-turns to spread status , your relying on the 65% chance dire claw to spread status, the uturn is more just insurance policy against whatever bulky non-steel they switched in against dire claw and a way to keep momentum.
or you could just hook up an iv drip to a bottle of ethyl alcohol for the same results
the results being the creation of mega rayquaza
someone definitely used happy hour that day
I know that. It wasn’t always tho
I don't think it'll be that impactful as a way of making walls not want to switch in. A lot of this meta's bulky non-Steels don't mind the idea of regular poison. Dondozo can Rest it off, Great Tusk might actually appreciate the subsequent Burn immunity, Slowking doesn't care either way, Garganacl can't even be statused, Toxapex and Clodsire can take that resisted hit and block both of its STABs while also being immune to poison. It's got use cases for sure, like Skeledirge or Dragonite might not want to risk it, but I have a feeling it's a narrower field than people might be expecting.
Dondozo doesn't want to be forced into resting often as that'll exacerbate its problems with passivity. Great Tusk definitely does not want to take poison or burn as it becomes far less able to check what its meant to check because it is in a timer then. Garg can't be statused but it can't take close combats, especially banded, while Clod also can't really easy take those hits.
Actually using it will not be so straightforward sure, but a strong offensive pivot that punishes some of its checks for switching in with status is not to be underestimated, especially as it aids teammates too.
This is specifically about taking the U-turn, which does not have the chance of inflicting Burn or Sleep like Dire Claw does nor the same typing as Close Combat. I'm making no argument against Sneasler being strong, but that Poison Touch is this gotcha combination with U-turn that will make "whatever" hesitate to switch in to it. At least more than they already will.
Just run convert bro, now it will be useful for 2 mons! Now taking seriously, poison touch still don't sound like the best for Sneaser, just like effect spore Amoonguss which on paper might look like a decent idea to punish the rival, it gets not use because the other ability is better. Especially since bulky poison types or even some steels like Corviknight or Gholdengo will be the main anwsers to Sneasler.
It's not really about making mons hesitate to switch in, since that's still better than letting sneasler just KO the mon it threatens in front of it, but rather than it ensures even things that wall it (Lando for example) don't comfortably switch in because they can still get poisoned and thus put on a timer. That's the main appeal I'm pointing to.
To be fair, effect spore is a decent ability for mons who have the tools to abuse it. But anyways, I think the difference here is that Amoonguss is better off with regenerator 100% of the time as it can't abuse effect spore reliably whereas Sneasler isn't entirely one way. Pivot sets and set up sets would fit onto different teams.
As for stuff like Corv and Clod, they actually drop to banded CC (2HKOd with rocks). Gholdengo I wholely agree is the main issue for it, but hey. U-turn helps out at least.
Don’t get me wrong your wall still has to switch in. The point is nothing but ghold and covert cloak resists can switch in without worrying about suffering at best a annoyance and worst a game ending status conditions. I don’t see sneasler being some elite sweeper. But as an early game offensive threat.
The titans of pre home OU
a list made by 1LDK
Sup lads, its me, 1LDK, on my constant and erratic change of moods, self-esteem and ideas, I was thinking about the mini project that it always gets done a few days before the current gen ends and a new one begins, the "Titans of the metagame" so I, of course, gonna jump the gun by making a semi decent post that will get me some likes, hahas, wows and discussion, everyone wins! So let's see my personal top 10 Pokémon this meta has to offer.
Number 10
HO has been a dominant play style for all the current gen, it has seen various changes in direction, like Screens HO and Shed Tail HO, but Vomit Hazard HO has been the one that has managed to outlast them all, vomiting a million hazards in such a consistent manner, puts pressure on any team, and forces either a poison Type, or careful counter play to not poke it. It not just a mere hazard machine tho, it has a move pool good enough to hit most things hard in an emergency and even its own spinning, which poisons you directly. And while Meowscarada has a lead set with similar qualities, and despite being a great side grade, it just doesn't compare in historical factor. Regardless of the day, he will vomit, and keep vomiting
Number 9
Torkoal, is the representation of Sun as a play style in general, it has had a rollercoaster of a generation, from Flutter Mane, to Chi-Yu, to Walking Wake, not to mention all the sun abusers with photosynthesis, and mons like Ceruledge, Volcarona, Hatterene, Iron Moth, Cinderace, etc. and while Torkoal is the least impressive of the mons that compound the squads, it's always the leader at the front, supporting in any way he can, especially its teammate Great Tusk who sure loves running stuff like Choice Scarf, band, or Bulk Up. And, unless rain gets all of its toys back and some new, Sun will remain as the best weather, and Torkoal will be there
Number 8
Volcarona has found a reputation for itself, in the form of always finding a way to be on top, to the point where many people would call it ban worthy, because of the sheer cheese factor that involves planning for it, is it gonna be bulky? Is it offensive? what's the last move? What type is he even? Flame Body + Quiver Dance lets it check the whole meta, it can always get out of control with just 1 click, or at the very least, keep you on the back foot. Tera lets it help intensify the cheese, sometimes you don't even think about it and you just roll over it, and other times you die, and he is at +100. We can only pray Heatran brings enough nachos to contain the cheese
Number 7
Since its inception in gen 8, Dragapult has become the gold standard for speed and ghost type offense, every scarfer needs to be faster than it, or you'll just get smacked. Gen 9 brought terastalization, and with it, an ability to make ghost spam even more brainless, tera and lack of bulky darks has made dragapult's physical sets become a force of nature, it can wall break and sweep for both sides, it can support with momentum and burns, it can go with infiltrator or Clear Body to get the jump on stat drops, even cursed body can be useful. In the end, the only thing that you know for certain, is that a ghost move will be spammed, and will hurt a lot
Number 6
Valiant is a great mon, being able to run a different set is one thing, but being able to run them well is another, physical, special, mix, without of the ordinary tools like poison jab, destiny bond, trick, etc. Valiant is able to constantly keep up his game by mix and matching its tools. The Booster energy sets are the most valued on the meta for the cool ability to get a Choice Scarf boost while being able to change moves at will, this allows it to set up and blast through endgame like nothing. But since its my list, I want to mention specs as the right now, most scary, due to the absurd damage moonblast does, having access to psyshock, aura sphere and thunderbolt or shadow ball make things more complex. And this mon will probably continue to be around the top 10, for its ability to adapt and perform
Number 5
On my personal opinion, the number 5 and onwards are immovable, and I wouldn't have them in any other order, the most consistent mons in the metagame, and to me, the gap between number 5 and 6 is big. So let's talk about how Dragonite has almost single-handedly transformed Normal type into something you need answers for, have you ever looked at your team from Maryland on standard OU and said "hmm, it seems like I need a normal resist" well, maybe yes, but for a lot of new players, this is the first time when you truly need it, the dragon dance sets, bulky or fully offensive, always get the job done, and can potentially cheese out checks by some move tweaks. But recently, a new wave of Dnite sets have been discovered, that go with mix, trapper and or fully special, and, unlike many mix attackers, Dnite is able to fully embrace and do great work with its natural bulk, decent power, and great move pool. Overall, a great mon that has always found a way to keep itself on the forefront of the metagame, and you should never look down on it, unless you just killed him
Number 4
Some people really underestimate the changes that gholdengo has brought to the metagame, sure, the metagame has adapted, but think about this, 50% of why is Corviknight so ass in this metagame is Gholdengo, the whole reason Talonflame has a niche its because its a defogger that has a good matchup against gholdengo, the reason why the rapid spinners need ways to hit gholdengo in every single scenario possible is due to tera and air balloon, the reason why Cinderace is one of the premier hazard removers is due to not caring about GaG. Hazard stack is right now the low world of OU. What I'm trying to say is that Gholdengo is the entity that is secretly behind a great deal of subconscious actions made in this meta, which is why, when compared to its "poor results" on a surface level, you don't think much of it. It has reliable recovery, status, nasty plot, powerful attacks, decent move pool, great typing, busted ability, it's all-in-one, and I hope we get more and better removers, or his throne will never be challenged
Number 3
"Just put covert cloak" "just use sub" "just spam double regen cores". These are some of the excuses that players make when asked, "is Garganacl a problem?" The answer is yes, and I don't want everyone pretending that this mon has never been a problem, its a defensive mon that makes much more progress in so little time, it hard stops the momentum of a ton of mons, it punishes you for doing an otherwise good play in putting tera water or steel on something. It can adapt to its usual checks by curse, block and tera ghost, once in play, it's the easiest sweeper to use. It's immune to status, has great defenses stats and recovery. The only thing keeping it reasonable is the fact that you have to dedicate tera to it, but it's one of the best mons in the game right now, are you seriously concerned with tera on garga? So, the next time you say "garganacl is not broken" think about the amount of discussion that has caused, think about the sub conscious decisions that you do in the builder for this thing, and think again
Number 2
What happens when you make a strong, bulky dark type with sword dance, priority, 2 great abilities, and add the entirety of the one piece series, you get Kingambit, a mon that is so simple yet so beautiful, it cleans mercilessly yet cleanly. He can troll its potential checks by the different viable teras and items that he can bring, it can even drop Iron Head and make way for tactics such as Low Kick and tera Blast, it forces defensive mons to go on to the offensive, and offensive mons on to the defensive, just like a true samurai, your death comes clean, and everyone who has played this meta, will agree that, he is rightfully number 2
Number 1
He is number 1 on this list, on everyone's list, and I think that nobody would have it any other way, it compresses so many roles into one mon in a package that (unlike Lando-T) doesn't look cringe to look at, it has a ton of moves, utility, and can check a ton by its stats alone, he alone checks every single mon in this list in some fashion. It has gotten to a point where many players are running rather suboptimal sets just to "lure it", but in the end, Tusk does what he does best, and it's spinning the wheels of the healthy and fun meta we find ourselves in, and at the end of the generation, he will get a spot on the big 10, no matter what
Lastly, I wanna do some special mentions of stuff that didn't cut it but was close. If you think something should be change, please disscuss, and I hope everyone has a good day
a list made by 1LDK
Sup lads, its me, 1LDK, on my constant and erratic change of moods, self-esteem and ideas, I was thinking about the mini project that it always gets done a few days before the current gen ends and a new one begins, the "Titans of the metagame" so I, of course, gonna jump the gun by making a semi decent post that will get me some likes, hahas, wows and discussion, everyone wins! So let's see my personal top 10 Pokémon this meta has to offer.
Number 10
HO has been a dominant play style for all the current gen, it has seen various changes in direction, like Screens HO and Shed Tail HO, but Vomit Hazard HO has been the one that has managed to outlast them all, vomiting a million hazards in such a consistent manner, puts pressure on any team, and forces either a poison Type, or careful counter play to not poke it. It not just a mere hazard machine tho, it has a move pool good enough to hit most things hard in an emergency and even its own spinning, which poisons you directly. And while Meowscarada has a lead set with similar qualities, and despite being a great side grade, it just doesn't compare in historical factor. Regardless of the day, he will vomit, and keep vomiting
Number 9
Torkoal, is the representation of Sun as a play style in general, it has had a rollercoaster of a generation, from Flutter Mane, to Chi-Yu, to Walking Wake, not to mention all the sun abusers with photosynthesis, and mons like Ceruledge, Volcarona, Hatterene, Iron Moth, Cinderace, etc. and while Torkoal is the least impressive of the mons that compound the squads, it's always the leader at the front, supporting in any way he can, especially its teammate Great Tusk who sure loves running stuff like Choice Scarf, band, or Bulk Up. And, unless rain gets all of its toys back and some new, Sun will remain as the best weather, and Torkoal will be there
Number 8
Volcarona has found a reputation for itself, in the form of always finding a way to be on top, to the point where many people would call it ban worthy, because of the sheer cheese factor that involves planning for it, is it gonna be bulky? Is it offensive? what's the last move? What type is he even? Flame Body + Quiver Dance lets it check the whole meta, it can always get out of control with just 1 click, or at the very least, keep you on the back foot. Tera lets it help intensify the cheese, sometimes you don't even think about it and you just roll over it, and other times you die, and he is at +100. We can only pray Heatran brings enough nachos to contain the cheese
Number 7
Since its inception in gen 8, Dragapult has become the gold standard for speed and ghost type offense, every scarfer needs to be faster than it, or you'll just get smacked. Gen 9 brought terastalization, and with it, an ability to make ghost spam even more brainless, tera and lack of bulky darks has made dragapult's physical sets become a force of nature, it can wall break and sweep for both sides, it can support with momentum and burns, it can go with infiltrator or Clear Body to get the jump on stat drops, even cursed body can be useful. In the end, the only thing that you know for certain, is that a ghost move will be spammed, and will hurt a lot
Number 6
Valiant is a great mon, being able to run a different set is one thing, but being able to run them well is another, physical, special, mix, without of the ordinary tools like poison jab, destiny bond, trick, etc. Valiant is able to constantly keep up his game by mix and matching its tools. The Booster energy sets are the most valued on the meta for the cool ability to get a Choice Scarf boost while being able to change moves at will, this allows it to set up and blast through endgame like nothing. But since its my list, I want to mention specs as the right now, most scary, due to the absurd damage moonblast does, having access to psyshock, aura sphere and thunderbolt or shadow ball make things more complex. And this mon will probably continue to be around the top 10, for its ability to adapt and perform
Number 5
On my personal opinion, the number 5 and onwards are immovable, and I wouldn't have them in any other order, the most consistent mons in the metagame, and to me, the gap between number 5 and 6 is big. So let's talk about how Dragonite has almost single-handedly transformed Normal type into something you need answers for, have you ever looked at your team from Maryland on standard OU and said "hmm, it seems like I need a normal resist" well, maybe yes, but for a lot of new players, this is the first time when you truly need it, the dragon dance sets, bulky or fully offensive, always get the job done, and can potentially cheese out checks by some move tweaks. But recently, a new wave of Dnite sets have been discovered, that go with mix, trapper and or fully special, and, unlike many mix attackers, Dnite is able to fully embrace and do great work with its natural bulk, decent power, and great move pool. Overall, a great mon that has always found a way to keep itself on the forefront of the metagame, and you should never look down on it, unless you just killed him
Number 4
Some people really underestimate the changes that gholdengo has brought to the metagame, sure, the metagame has adapted, but think about this, 50% of why is Corviknight so ass in this metagame is Gholdengo, the whole reason Talonflame has a niche its because its a defogger that has a good matchup against gholdengo, the reason why the rapid spinners need ways to hit gholdengo in every single scenario possible is due to tera and air balloon, the reason why Cinderace is one of the premier hazard removers is due to not caring about GaG. Hazard stack is right now the low world of OU. What I'm trying to say is that Gholdengo is the entity that is secretly behind a great deal of subconscious actions made in this meta, which is why, when compared to its "poor results" on a surface level, you don't think much of it. It has reliable recovery, status, nasty plot, powerful attacks, decent move pool, great typing, busted ability, it's all-in-one, and I hope we get more and better removers, or his throne will never be challenged
Number 3
"Just put covert cloak" "just use sub" "just spam double regen cores". These are some of the excuses that players make when asked, "is Garganacl a problem?" The answer is yes, and I don't want everyone pretending that this mon has never been a problem, its a defensive mon that makes much more progress in so little time, it hard stops the momentum of a ton of mons, it punishes you for doing an otherwise good play in putting tera water or steel on something. It can adapt to its usual checks by curse, block and tera ghost, once in play, it's the easiest sweeper to use. It's immune to status, has great defenses stats and recovery. The only thing keeping it reasonable is the fact that you have to dedicate tera to it, but it's one of the best mons in the game right now, are you seriously concerned with tera on garga? So, the next time you say "garganacl is not broken" think about the amount of discussion that has caused, think about the sub conscious decisions that you do in the builder for this thing, and think again
Number 2
What happens when you make a strong, bulky dark type with sword dance, priority, 2 great abilities, and add the entirety of the one piece series, you get Kingambit, a mon that is so simple yet so beautiful, it cleans mercilessly yet cleanly. He can troll its potential checks by the different viable teras and items that he can bring, it can even drop Iron Head and make way for tactics such as Low Kick and tera Blast, it forces defensive mons to go on to the offensive, and offensive mons on to the defensive, just like a true samurai, your death comes clean, and everyone who has played this meta, will agree that, he is rightfully number 2
Number 1
He is number 1 on this list, on everyone's list, and I think that nobody would have it any other way, it compresses so many roles into one mon in a package that (unlike Lando-T) doesn't look cringe to look at, it has a ton of moves, utility, and can check a ton by its stats alone, he alone checks every single mon in this list in some fashion. It has gotten to a point where many players are running rather suboptimal sets just to "lure it", but in the end, Tusk does what he does best, and it's spinning the wheels of the healthy and fun meta we find ourselves in, and at the end of the generation, he will get a spot on the big 10, no matter what
Lastly, I wanna do some special mentions of stuff that didn't cut it but was close. If you think something should be change, please disscuss, and I hope everyone has a good day
Stall started the gen as a dead unviable play style by everyone, that's mistake one, and when he appeared no one though he was gonna do shit, mistake two. And while the innovations are cute, Pex is just not as present as his glory days, and thank god, fuck stall
and 
I'm gonna group them as 1 because both are physical ice types that have only 1 good check and that is Dondozo, and both are dangerous, but the former got banned, and the latter started the gen late due to the former
and 
its shed tail, not them. At least Torkoal has more to offer
Screens are one hell of a drug, that could just easily make any sweeping attempt brainless and successful. Kingambit shits on him hard tho
Where can I find this Treads HO team that you're mentioning, please? I'd like to try it. Thanks
I'll Talk you about a Mold Breaker case:
Tinkaton can Paralyze Garganacl with Thunder Wave thanks to Mold Breaker, but it won't if Garganacl holds a Ability Shield.
Tinkaton is prefered to hold a Covert Cloak against Garganacl, so Salt Cure won't be a problem for Tinkaton (However if they carry Earthquake, they'll deal meaningful damage to Tinkaton)
If the HOME update releases, Basculegion can ignore Purifying Salt Ghost-type damage reduction Thanks to Mold Breaker (Female Basculegion can do better thanks to its higher special attack than its male counterpart)
Haxorus can Poison Garganacl with Poison Jab thanks to Mold Breaker, Tera Poison Haxorus against Tera Fairy Garganacl variants is a good situational strategy.
Tinkaton can Paralyze Garganacl with Thunder Wave thanks to Mold Breaker, but it won't if Garganacl holds a Ability Shield.
Tinkaton is prefered to hold a Covert Cloak against Garganacl, so Salt Cure won't be a problem for Tinkaton (However if they carry Earthquake, they'll deal meaningful damage to Tinkaton)
If the HOME update releases, Basculegion can ignore Purifying Salt Ghost-type damage reduction Thanks to Mold Breaker (Female Basculegion can do better thanks to its higher special attack than its male counterpart)
Haxorus can Poison Garganacl with Poison Jab thanks to Mold Breaker, Tera Poison Haxorus against Tera Fairy Garganacl variants is a good situational strategy.
All I see with this is another month without the Home update.
I know he won’t be good in OU but I am happy Chesn is back, I like this boy.
All I see with this is another month without the Home update.
I doubt it. There is a certain someone who has been strongly hinting at news coming real soon. It's also worth pointing out that news for HOME actually happened around the 12th last year for BDSP/PLA, so if that certain someone is to be believed, perhaps we may see something around then this year.
I kinda agree with this but I would replace Bax with Dnite, Dnite has been a strong menace since the gen started, Bax started getting traction like 2 months ago.
Okay but for real tho, I wish this would have been sooner, since corviknight is so bad right now, and chesnaught handles tusk, it means that with a gholdengo to combo your resistances, spikes would stay, but I'm glad I, for once in my miserable life, got a W
Everything is possible boys
today, 1400
Tomorrow, 2400
Who's with me?
At least Chesnaught will enjoy the birdless meta for a bit while checks Tusk and Gambit, it isn't going to be a top threat but will have a legit niche before home brings back the birds.
What about specially defensive chestnaught.
can switch into ball, blast or bomb moves. Typically these are special. Has enough resistances and bulk to come in on physical hitters too.
not horrible, tho likely easily overwhelmed.
dunked on by the new sub-dragapult set, non choice gholdengo, offensive CC tusk, any cinderace with Gunk shot, roaring moon outrage in sun, etc
can switch into ball, blast or bomb moves. Typically these are special. Has enough resistances and bulk to come in on physical hitters too.
- Nuisance with spikes,
- immune to spore
- Leech seed for the switch ins
- Spiky shield synergies
- STAB body press (for impish sets)
not horrible, tho likely easily overwhelmed.
dunked on by the new sub-dragapult set, non choice gholdengo, offensive CC tusk, any cinderace with Gunk shot, roaring moon outrage in sun, etc
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I like Chesnaught, but what does it do better compared to Breloom?
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Cyclizar @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Overheat
- Draco Meteor
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
For some reason people stay-in on Cyclizar with Tusk or Gholdengo. Both get destroyed.
252 SpA Life Orb Cyclizar Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 299-354 (94.9 - 112.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Cyclizar Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 458-541 (105.5 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You use your normal type to pivot around shadow balls and sneak. Life Orb and Regen are a classic combo. Knock Off and Rapid Spin are utility moves and role compression. Also I tried other special moves and they kinda suck. Give it a show its better than expected
---
Cyclizar @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Overheat
- Draco Meteor
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
For some reason people stay-in on Cyclizar with Tusk or Gholdengo. Both get destroyed.
252 SpA Life Orb Cyclizar Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 299-354 (94.9 - 112.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Cyclizar Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 458-541 (105.5 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You use your normal type to pivot around shadow balls and sneak. Life Orb and Regen are a classic combo. Knock Off and Rapid Spin are utility moves and role compression. Also I tried other special moves and they kinda suck. Give it a show its better than expected
- Status