not too sure about most of the questions but i do know that in LC the preevo of espa flittle is absolutely busted with the cm/stored power/tera fighting/roost set
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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ok i actually want to answer the rest of these so here goes:
1. chien pao has never been too big of an issue for me, i usually just end up trading 1-1 for it or clicking the scizor button
2. tera fire dragonite is so awesome. fire punch destroys neutral targets at +2, and since everyone expects either no tera or tera steel/flying/normal it has great surprise potential.
3. I LOVE VELUZA SO MUCH if you get it behind a shed tail you can fillet away into a win so often. im partial to tera dark night slash to avoid the sucker punches/sneaks that are aimed at it so often.
4. base gallade and not just because its another sharpness psychic. seen a lot of people on ladder and in this forum and its just not good in ou please let it drop to uu where it belongs.
EDIT: meow also sucks, literally use any other dark type (even brute bonnet is better)
That's literally a horrible comparison. We can always fix shit, letting things be for a while and seeing what will happen before we make rash decisions is a proper way to go about when there's no rush atm
Yes, yes, we get it, you like relying on Palafin and Iron Bundle instead of skill. I, on the other hand, prefer an actually competitive metagame, which is impossible as long as the dolphin and penguin continue to exist.
I am through being polite to Palafin/Bundle apologists. Not wanting these Pokémon gone right now is willful ignorance at this point.
You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow, you didn't improve, you took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked, and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.
1. Iron Apple.
2. Iron Apple.
3. Iron Apple.
4. Not Iron Apple.
5. I have not, but its most common sets comfortably beat Iron Apple.
What makes you think an offensive oriented meta is not competitive? With high power threats, you cannot just come in and expect to win because you defend really well, or because you had too solid a plan for your team that it cant maneuver around some common threats. You need to be able to adapt on the fly, think ahead and not just check off the list. Yes, there will be strong pokemon, but as is the nature of a metagame answers will be found and shared with the wider community, as they have been in this very thread. And when said answers are found, people will try to work around them. This is true of any healthy metagame, of which we are a part of. It just so happens that this generation leans more towards offense, unlike generations prior.
After banning Palafin, Iron Bundle, and Shed Tail/Cyclizer, I would like to see a pause on quick bans. Instead of focusing in on Chien-Pao and Roaring Moon next, there should be a deep dive on this generation's gimmick. I personally dont think splitting into two separate OU tiers is viable, so that leaves either making it more transparent or banning it altogether. I want to say I completely disagree that revealing Tera Types at team preview is anything like a complex ban. Im of the same opinion as all those who already said it earlier in the thread that its not modding the cartridge since it could be done in real life with pen and paper. But if even with the team preview reveal, its judged to still be broken, we should ban Terastalizing altogether then. l really think its going too far trying to take away same type Adaptability or defensive typing from Terastallzing, since now youre altering the game mechanic itself. I do wish Game Freak would have done something themselves. With that said, I think this generation's gimmick should be given a chance of being balanced at least before getting banned.
Those are my thoughts on the direction OU should go. I have nothing to say about the meta itself.
Those are my thoughts on the direction OU should go. I have nothing to say about the meta itself.
My point wasn't that Penguin and Dolphin shouldn't be banned, my point is that your argument doesn't make sense
If people choose to leave the meta 4 days in because it's chaotic, that's on them, not on the ruleset that's currently in place. To expect a meta to be "normal" not even a month, yet alone a week, into its existence is an expectation that cannot be met. It's like expecting healthy food from a Big Mac menu
We aren't in the position of a train coming towards us, we are in a position where we don't know where the train is going and where we have to figure out how to position the train and ourselves (okay that's also a dumb comparison but you get what I mean)
Frankly I have the feeling that you are just frustrated about getting rekt by questionable mons. I don't think you should take the meta this way right now, at least I don't think it's a healthy mindset. It's a weird and chaotic place, it's important now to figure it out and to see what intricacies it has, instead of thinking that you can just continue on day 1 on the new meta from the last day of the old meta
Any doubts I had about Iron Bundles being broken are gone atp. It’s just that every single new team i have to ask myself “Ok what do i do about Paladin and Bundles?”. Iron bundles is esp oppressive on team building. It can tera water to blow through pivots on ice move, taunt and flip turn to shit on the passive answers for it, has bulk to point where it’s never falling to a single physical priority move.
There will never be a game where it does absolutely nothing. Even playing it recklessly you will always get some mileage out of it. Also there’s always the chance of it freezing your walls. It’s like gen 8 Kyurem on crack in some ways.
Also despite the bulk up taunt set being more popular at the moment, cb palafin still 6-0s 90% of teams lol. That things def going i know, just think Bundles should go with it.
There will never be a game where it does absolutely nothing. Even playing it recklessly you will always get some mileage out of it. Also there’s always the chance of it freezing your walls. It’s like gen 8 Kyurem on crack in some ways.
Also despite the bulk up taunt set being more popular at the moment, cb palafin still 6-0s 90% of teams lol. That things def going i know, just think Bundles should go with it.
I also think that Bundles is more influential than dolphin. Dolphin can be somewhat stopped through it's form change condition and suffers from opportunity costs in item choice, Bundles meanwhile just comes in and slaps, even without tera
Tbh maybe we should start talking about something that isn't bans. Someone found something fun? I personally found Ground Tera QD Venomoth with Toxic Spikes for myself, the more I play the more use I get from it. Already talked a lot about though and I don't wanna be like our Glaceon friend
Tbh maybe we should start talking about something that isn't bans. Someone found something fun? I personally found Ground Tera QD Venomoth with Toxic Spikes for myself, the more I play the more use I get from it. Already talked a lot about though and I don't wanna be like our Glaceon friend
Hope the council is sleeping and doesn't ban Palafin yet, it's such an ez mon to climb with and i'll probably go back to beating up toddlers in the 1100s if it gets banned.
Wide awake, Dolphin’s days may be numbered
HELL YES THE DAYS OF THE DOLPHIN AND POSSIBLY IRON BUNDLE ARE NUMBERED!!!
Me when the broken mons are being banned and now i have to actually think in teambuilding + battling in a consistent way, meaning i have to actually work for the things i want instead of taking shortcuts:
Has anyone tried to make Gogoat work with Grass Pelt? Since it boosts Gogoat's Defense in Grassy Terrain and it already is quite bulky with 123 /100 / 81
Grass Pelt would require using another Grass Mon, probably Arboliva. However, both Mons have (at least in theory) fringe viability and low breaking power, so using them together doesn't look a good idea.
In ORAS and SM, with big support (Zone is a must for example), Sap Sipper Sub BU Sdef Gogoat was viable vs certain teams. If Amoonguss becomes common and uses Clear Smog instead of Sludge Bomb, it will be unable to break Substitute, just like other passive Mons like Slowking, Blissey, Quagsire, Clodsire, Garganacl (Gogoat needs the +1 here) and Curseless Dondozo. Depending on the 4th move of Gogoat (Rock Slide or EQ), Gogoat might sweep some teams. However, as I already said, huge support will be needed and only the real (Go)goats will be be able to have success with this Mon.
The quest for Palafin answers has led me into places I shouldnt go
Leafeon @ Miracle Seed / Life Orb / Expert Belt / Scope Lens / whatever else
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Tera Blast
- Double-Edge
This is basically "Scovillain at home" because its usually a worse Scovillain even on sun teams. H o w e v e r it does have one thing going for it; surprise factor. No longer is Leafeon walled by pesky Steel types like Corviknight or Kingambit, and Grass types like Amoonguss. You can score a pretty nice KO vs these things to open up other sweepers that appreciate Leafeon luring in & killing said steels.Instead you're now walled by Dragapult and Skeledirge because Leafeon doesn't get Knock anymore. It's a pretty fun set and surprisingly bulky too. It can take on TauntBU Palafin 1v1 though it kinda dies to Banded CC. Terablast also gets boosted by sun itself, making it hit surprisingly hard after even a single SD.
Overall this set is not that good. There's better options for sun sweepers and grass mons, but it combines a couple of things into a single slot, and also has a good surprise factor. Its good at cleaning weakened teams for sure, though sucker punch from Kingambit or Chien Pao is still a bit of a problem. You could also run Power Herb + Dig over Double Edge to weaken Skeledirge and deal good damage to Pult.
If anyone wants to mess around with the team I've been running (or wants to improve it), here's the paste.
Also some replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1718955066
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1718459422
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1718960064
I forgot to save more
Leafeon @ Miracle Seed / Life Orb / Expert Belt / Scope Lens / whatever else
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Tera Blast
- Double-Edge
This is basically "Scovillain at home" because its usually a worse Scovillain even on sun teams. H o w e v e r it does have one thing going for it; surprise factor. No longer is Leafeon walled by pesky Steel types like Corviknight or Kingambit, and Grass types like Amoonguss. You can score a pretty nice KO vs these things to open up other sweepers that appreciate Leafeon luring in & killing said steels.
Overall this set is not that good. There's better options for sun sweepers and grass mons, but it combines a couple of things into a single slot, and also has a good surprise factor. Its good at cleaning weakened teams for sure, though sucker punch from Kingambit or Chien Pao is still a bit of a problem. You could also run Power Herb + Dig over Double Edge to weaken Skeledirge and deal good damage to Pult.
If anyone wants to mess around with the team I've been running (or wants to improve it), here's the paste.
Also some replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1718955066
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1718459422
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1718960064
I forgot to save more
Water Homelander being banned his amazing for the meta, both for offence and defence. Only Dondozo can wall it 100% of the time.
Talking about Dondozo and his two friend: Clodsire and Skeledirge. When i saw the scald and healing nerf i think balance/defensive teams were doom but good Unaware mons can help in this HO meta.
Dondozo and Clodsire are the best when Skeledirge need terra to not die to the high amount of dark-, ghost-, water- and ground- moves everywere.
What are your opinions on this Unaware Mons?
Talking about Dondozo and his two friend: Clodsire and Skeledirge. When i saw the scald and healing nerf i think balance/defensive teams were doom but good Unaware mons can help in this HO meta.
Dondozo and Clodsire are the best when Skeledirge need terra to not die to the high amount of dark-, ghost-, water- and ground- moves everywere.
What are your opinions on this Unaware Mons?
Unaware Pokemon are necessary evils right now; they make any semblance of bulkier team possible in this power crept landscape. I’m personally glad they’re here if only for the sake of archetypical variance.
Dondozo is great, but Clod runs into a weird problem where it is forced to either run unaware and be weak to water or run water absorb and lose to bulkup. Also of course neither can wall Bundle, but whatever nothing can wall Bundle except a meat wall made of HP and SpD.
The only archetype that I think seems completely pushed out of the metagame is balance/semi-stall. It desperately needs one of the unaware mons mentioned above to function at all and personally it feels challenging to build balance with one of those taking a slot in your defensive core when there are so many other restricting threats in the meta. Every other archetype of play seems flexible enough (even stall tbh, since its good against most common HO).
I think the biggest reason I can think of for this is how easily this sort of team style is farmed by shed tail. Bundle also puts a lot of constraint on the play style too by limiting the defensive pieces immensely.
If the goal is to free up all playstyles, I would expect a ban on shed tail and bundle would do the trick (all for the palafin ban too but for different reasons lol).
thoughts?
I think the biggest reason I can think of for this is how easily this sort of team style is farmed by shed tail. Bundle also puts a lot of constraint on the play style too by limiting the defensive pieces immensely.
If the goal is to free up all playstyles, I would expect a ban on shed tail and bundle would do the trick (all for the palafin ban too but for different reasons lol).
thoughts?
Palafin is quickgetitng banned within a week, you can evaluate Clodsire without worrying about the dolphin
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