Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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alright enough fun

shouldn't shed tail be banned instead of cyclizar? as far as i'm aware, i do not see how cyclizar is necessarily banworthy aside from having this incredibly broken move. definitely agree with banning the other mons but banning cyclizar and not shed tail does not seem like the way to go unless i'm deeply mistaken
Nah too complicated /s
 

viivian

OU's sweetheart
is a Tiering Contributor
Ayo listen up, nobody cares about your salt. Especially if you didn’t get reqs, but also in general. Only Garganacl has the cure for that. The matter of Tera will be looked into again if and when appropriate. This verdict is sticking in the meantime no matter how many incoherent posts and bad memes you make, and this is coming from someone who invested dozens of hours of his life into hoping for action.

In the meantime, we got a tier to fix, and I’m going to make sure it’s fixed. You can sit on the side and cry or you can participate in fixing it like well-adjusted people, but don’t go around harassing people. I’ll nuke you like I did Dynamax if so.
goated response to all these nonsensical complaints. i get why tera should have been banned/restricted but the way y'all convey that point is NOT it
 

Garrett

Banned deucer.
alright enough fun

shouldn't shed tail be banned instead of cyclizar? as far as i'm aware, i do not see how cyclizar is necessarily banworthy aside from having this incredibly broken move. definitely agree with banning the other mons but banning cyclizar and not shed tail does not seem like the way to go unless i'm deeply mistaken
We'd run into the Orthoworm discussion (which may be valid if Orthoworm drops to a low enough tier), which we probably will down the line. You can think about it like Aurora Veil shenanigans in UU/RU in older generations. Personally, I think Shed Tail is not broken but forces the metagame to avoid a certain level of passivity which I find to not be unhealthy. In a tera-less metagame I expect it to be more balanced. Come Pokemon Home, I might have a different opinion though.
 
alright enough fun

shouldn't shed tail be banned instead of cyclizar? as far as i'm aware, i do not see how cyclizar is necessarily banworthy aside from having this incredibly broken move. definitely agree with banning the other mons but banning cyclizar and not shed tail does not seem like the way to go unless i'm deeply mistaken
because cyclizar doesn't just have a broken move, it has the perfect toolkit to abuse said broken move, if it was lacking regen, or its high speed, it wouldn't really be a problem, but its the combination of all of those traits that make it overwhelming
 
This has been an interesting thread to read. To keep it quick since I don’t have a lot of time right now. The fact that 59% voted for action should be representative of the view of the people able to get reqs pretty plainly. I say this as a no action voter myself that this doesn’t feel like a “win” for either side. Either you have 41% support and get your way Because of a system that favors the status quo or you have a pretty sizable majority and don’t get your way because of the same system. Obviously the fact this is a mechanic makes this more important but I can’t shake the feeling that this test failed. It didn’t give what the reqs voters voted for and just ended up giving the minority of reqs voters what they wanted. Personally though I’m happy because I voted no ban. Also stop being stupid please, reading this gave me a headache
 
Ayo listen up, nobody cares about your salt. Especially if you didn’t get reqs, but also in general. Only Garganacl has the cure for that. The matter of Tera will be looked into again if and when appropriate. This verdict is sticking in the meantime no matter how many incoherent posts and bad memes you make, and this is coming from someone who invested dozens of hours of his life into hoping for action.

In the meantime, we got a tier to fix, and I’m going to make sure it’s fixed. You can sit on the side and cry or you can participate in fixing it like well-adjusted people, but don’t go around harassing people. I’ll nuke you like I did Dynamax if so.
"Shut up, idc" average response to when the community isnt happy with the decision ig lol
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
If Mudkipnerd was CEO of OU dot com, he would have just used his tiranical powers instead of this, oh well, such is life

Anyways, you all thinking about Chi Yummmm, i want Chien Pao banned, one thing that is gimmicky yet insane pulled off is Webs + SD Pao, if webs are up, and pao gets an SD its over, you cannot killed because he is faster than you in every single fashion imaginable, and has a morbillion attack, band, LO, fuck, i even saw a Chien Pao using FUCKING RECOVER, so he could live my toxic just a little more and kill my entire team, Recover chien pao is real, not even Donzo walls this thing if banded, and this is why i would rather run Body press over curse on pao
 
I think that a big reason it wasn't majority action is because people are scared to change something so major early into a meta. But it does make it frustrating knowing we could have acted on Chi-yu/ape/cyclizar etc before this suspect that ultimately changed nothing. I think another suspect after Home could result in action.
If we're being Reelistic (and if I had to guess), I'd say we'll only get a retest once DLC drops, whatever that day might be.
 
alright enough fun

shouldn't shed tail be banned instead of cyclizar? as far as i'm aware, i do not see how cyclizar is necessarily banworthy aside from having this incredibly broken move. definitely agree with banning the other mons but banning cyclizar and not shed tail does not seem like the way to go unless i'm deeply mistaken
Shed Tail should only be considered if Cyclizar isn't the only toxic user of it (I'd be surprised if Orthworm becomes the new cheese enabler if wheel Yoshi got banned, given its poopoo speed). Drought was banned in a lot of lower tiers in the past bc even with Vulpix to enable sun, those tiers took a nosedive into hell.

Edit: damn parrot beat me to it
 
Don't forgot to ban Cyclizar while you're getting rid of Chi Yu, thanks!
Cyclizar should not be banned, it's Shed Tail that is causing that. Free substitute pass with Regenerator is clearly unhealthy but Cyclizar could still be good without Shed Tail as a Rapid Spin Regen pivot. Honestly just because there is a clear unhealthy combo doesn't mean you should outright ban the mon causing it, and instead ban the MOVE that causes Pokemon to become unhealthy. If you still think Cyclizar should be banned cry more, you probably didn't have the capacity to read this anyway.
 

DuoM2

whao
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
I just want to say that if you're really torn up by the outcome here, and if you think it's going to impact your enjoyment of the tier that badly, nobody's forcing you to play it. I'm sure it might be disappointing that you won't get to see what Gen 9 OU would've been like otherwise but it's not like it's going to block you out from enjoying Pokemon ever again.

Otherwise, call it a hot take (I'm sure as heck not gonna pretend like I'm the best player out there) but I think Gholdengo's extremely problematic for the tier and should be on people's minds more than it is now. It's a major factor, even if not the only one contributing towards the meta being heavily warped towards hazard stacking right now. So many Pokemon are running boots where they really wouldn't and for just about every team it feels like you're having to play a guessing game horribly stacked against you whenever you want hazards removed period. I think at worst it should be seen as the second most problematic mon in the tier after Chi-Yu, with Annihilape, Chien-Pao, and Shed Tail coming in afterwards in some order.
 
From here, I think there's about 3-4 Mons that need to go.

- Chi Yu: I think this one is obvious
- Annihilape: Rage fist is insane, we know this. Plus the completely different ways needed to refuse rest and taunt sets makes it nearly impossible to safely disarm.
- Cyclizar: Pretty much provides all the same issues as Tera in terms of buying turns for setup sweeprs. Manigable in most metas, but in combo with tera is absolutely problematic
- Espathra/Gholdengo: Not as absolutely problematic as the others, but both have absolutely ridiculous, game warping traits. I'm unsure if either needs to be QB, but should be suspected soon IMO
 
"Shut up, idc" average response to when the community isnt happy with the decision ig lol
tf you mean "the community" its 5 or 6 people bitching in a frorum about a decision that several of them didn't even get the reqs to vote for while the entire rest of the thread clowns on them for it, you are in the minority of people if you genuinely have a problem with the decision
 
alright enough fun

shouldn't shed tail be banned instead of cyclizar? as far as i'm aware, i do not see how cyclizar is necessarily banworthy aside from having this incredibly broken move. definitely agree with banning the other mons but banning cyclizar and not shed tail does not seem like the way to go unless i'm deeply mistaken
Since it’s not broken on orthworm we know that the move itself isn’t broken. I haven’t made up my mind if I think shed tail enables too much or not but the combination of traits that cyclizar has (regenerator, good speed, good support movepool) all contribute to how good shed tail strategies are right now. Plus if we did just ban the move cyclizar would drop to like RU or NU anyways so it’s not like we would be seeing it around OU at all.
 
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