Resource SV OU Post-HOME Viability Ranking Thread [ Final Update: Post #280 ]

[Mega Breloom]

What pushed Iron Valiant to S tier from Pre HOME?

Volc's ban, it was the best to stop it besides the super rare tera water liquidation and now it is kinda free and with the right set it can beat most teams and in particular the sd sets are super strong rn, teams without Dozo relly 100% on getting the static proc or else they auto lose to Valiant if played well.

So, seriously, how is Gholdengo not in S Tier?

Too much grounds (and as a side note, most Tusks are offensive rn), darks and special walls like Heatran make it hard to keep the offensive momentum, while can be used as a set up fodder by stuff like Dragonite. It is good but have too much bad match ups to be considered S. Also, even without Gholdengo hazards would still be a huge issue because of the removal distribution because not all teams can run Corviknight while tera ghost and Pult would still block spin.

 

[RoyalDispenser]

What happened to iron moth?

I thought it was a solid mon in A for awhile and then suddenly seems like everyone forgot it exist. Is it due to samurott?

 

[MrOofio64]

What happened to iron moth?

I thought it was a solid mon in A for awhile and then suddenly seems like everyone forgot it exist. Is it due to samurott?

New toys are making people not use the other staples + Samu is a really solid mon.

 

[Wartionzz]

Hey Mr Finch, why's my baby garchomp in B-? Multiple special and physical sets, can setup spikes and rocks and looks cool as fuck doing that. I thought it would have been a little better, cause it's never not funny seeing a great tusk switching it on it and getting melted by draco

 

[SnackWasTaken]

Hey Mr Finch, why's my baby garchomp in B-? Multiple special and physical sets, can setup spikes and rocks and looks cool as fuck doing that. I thought it would have been a little better, cause it's never not funny seeing a great tusk switching it on it and getting melted by draco

Just be grateful it’s not in UU

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Hey Mr Finch, why's my baby garchomp in B-? Multiple special and physical sets, can setup spikes and rocks and looks cool as fuck doing that. I thought it would have been a little better, cause it's never not funny seeing a great tusk switching it on it and getting melted by draco

More like why is Garchomp so high. Anything it can do, other mons can do better.

 

[Yoshikitty64]

what makes galarian slowking that much better than regular slowking

 

[Magcargo]

what makes galarian slowking that much better than regular slowking

Typing is a lot better, lot less weaknesses to key attacking types like Bug, Grass, and Electric + Immune to Toxic. Resistance to Fairy is also critical in the Iron Valiant and Enamorus match-ups & Poison resistance gives it a much better Sneaseler MU. Has some additional utility options over regular king too, like T-Spikes, Toxic, Trick + Black Sludge, etc.

 

[Karxrida]

It's also slightly stronger since 10 points of Attack went to Special Attack. Not a significant difference but it helps.

 

[Whaloob]

Hisuian-Goodra has the same problems as its Kalos counterpart. It offers no defensive utility (Knock Off, Hazards, etc) and no reliable recovery, just raw special bulk. It also doesn’t have enough offensive pressure to be a prominent tank either. Spikes also cuts its impressive bulk by a huge chunk. Not to mention it faces competition with other walls like Glowking, Garg, and Ting-Lu who provide much more for a team.

Try lefties spdef curse rest iron head dragon tail. I run tera water sap sipper. Set is an absolute monster.

 

[ausma]

Hey Mr Finch, why's my baby garchomp in B-? Multiple special and physical sets, can setup spikes and rocks and looks cool as fuck doing that. I thought it would have been a little better, cause it's never not funny seeing a great tusk switching it on it and getting melted by draco

very outclassed. if you want to be a bulky spikestack ground that checks tran, ting lu exists. if you want to be a mixed ground attacker, lando exists. if you want to be a glue, tusk exists. it may perform at a level better than b- but the opportunity cost compared to the more effective and expansive grounds available makes its on-paper flexibility not particularly worthwhile just because it doesn’t particularly excel in any one role compared to its competition

 

[ausma]

What happened to iron moth?

I thought it was a solid mon in A for awhile and then suddenly seems like everyone forgot it exist. Is it due to samurott?

moth is actually not bad rn but it’s just not super consistent due to increased ting lu usage, the existence of heatran and gking making it a bit of a tera sink, and its inability to come in easily (physical frailty, hazard vulnerability) limiting its applications

 

[iplayPKMNnaked]

Was A-Muk just not on the initial slate? It looks weird omitting a mon that’s picking up decent tournament usage even if it hasn’t had the best showings.
Anyway, what’s with Mew’s rank? Is the nerfed Demon Mew set really strong enough to put it that high in this meta or is there some other set putting in the work?

 

[pika pal]

It's also slightly stronger since 10 points of Attack went to Special Attack. Not a significant difference but it helps.

A 10% increase to its SpA is probably of some use on a Pokemon bulky enough to make it to a 3HKO vs "Chance to 3HKO" at least. If anything I almost think it matters more with lower stat/investment users since they're not pushing an "overkill" threshold for power.

Glowking over Slowking seems like an amassment of tiny advantages, might as well note one more if it's got it.

 

[sims796]

Why would one use Slow over Glow at this point?

 

[ausma]

Was A-Muk just not on the initial slate? It looks weird omitting a mon that’s picking up decent tournament usage even if it hasn’t had the best showings.
Anyway, what’s with Mew’s rank? Is the nerfed Demon Mew set really strong enough to put it that high in this meta or is there some other set putting in the work?

it should be B-! fixed the op :>

demon mew is fine but losing out on some of its crucial moves from last gen definitely limits its potency

Why would one use Slow over Glow at this point?

switches into a couple of mons better b/c of its water typing, mainly matters into tusk and wake

 

[JoeMama]

Just wondering how wake is so high considering Torkoal is down in B-? Speaking of that what made torkoal fall off?

 

[ausma]

Just wondering how wake is so high considering Torkoal is down in B-? Speaking of that what made torkoal fall off?

wake can be really self-sufficient with tera, booster energy, and agility; it's seen successful use on non-sun offenses. it also appreciates less pex and clodsire usage

Speaking of that what made torkoal fall off?

 

[Dreadfury]

Dumb question, but what makes Maushold viable in this meta? Historically that thing's been a complete joke, so it's odd to see it ranked alongside Thundurus-T or Alomomola, two mons that have specific but legitimate niches, when before HOME I don't remember it really having much of any niche.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Dumb question, but what makes Maushold viable in this meta? Historically that thing's been a complete joke, so it's odd to see it ranked alongside Thundurus-T or Alomomola, two mons that have specific but legitimate niches, when before HOME I don't remember it really having much of any niche.

Tidy up is the only form of hazard control that doesn't care about Gholdengo (mold breaker Hawlucha too but has more issues). And Population bomb actually be an issue for some meta teams so it is kinda legit.

 

[Dreadfury]

Tidy up is the only form of hazard control that doesn't care about Gholdengo (mold breaker Hawlucha too but has more issues). And Population bomb actually be an issue for some meta teams so it is kinda legit.

That's always been the case, though. Why is it viable now, specifically, when it could've done those exact same things in theory pre-HOME?

 

[MilkyWay]

I know we can’t make nominations, but can I ask why Golduck wasn’t ranked?

Ik it was ranked pre-home because of Nasty Plot + good coverage (eg grass knot for dondozo) so I was wondering what’s changed to make it unranked

 

[mangolol]

I find it interesting that is only ranked A despite being top 5 in usage.
Can I get a brief explanation on why my boy isn't ranked A+?

 

[Finchinator]

wait, ursaluna is in A-? sorry to keep asking more questions over time instead of compressing them all into one post but i'm looking at the VR again and i noticed it chilling in A-, why is that the case? and is hisuian goodra unranked or can i just not find it on here?

Can’t tell if you expect it higher or lower, but Ursaluna is a good Pokemon. It’s limited due to it being slow, burn turns, etc. and people are only slowly beginning to tinker with other variants, but it’s potent and close to uncounterable. TR died down a ton, but it fits on some teams with specific pivots at least.

Goodra-H is very bad, unfortunately.

 

[Finchinator]

Why is Gholdengo A+ and not S when you have to run shit like Cinderace to have a chance to actually get hazards off when it exists

Spinner Tusk isn't an answer, it can struggle with getting off against the right sets, and the Tusk has to make a prediction that the Gholdengo is favored

Even if Tusk goes for the middleground Knock Off which wont get close to killing, Gholdengo generally pushes defensive Tusks out and that alone can give HO enough time to get the offensive pressure/setup to sweep with hazards up against a Pokemon that a special attacker sneezes at and it dies

Even if Gholdengo on HO teams dies but prevents the Spin, then it still gives its team momentum, and probably a heavily chipped Tusk/Trick onto a good target.

0 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 184-218 (58.4 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 330-388 (76 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Free momentum for its team even if it dies, and Tusk is weak enough to where it is probably never getting hazards off because it is also dealing with hazards.

Then you have how it basically ignores direct status moves, and prevents Pokemon like Corviknight from doing its job. Not just take advantage, actively deny it. Not running Gholdengo on an HO is something you have to justify against using, not to use; which is what an S Tier should be. A Pokemon you throw in the builder when starting a team.

I remember in the pre-HOME VR people claimed Gholdengo struggled against offense but with Fairy Spatkers being one of the best types of threats in the meta, and in the top tiers alone Dragapult, Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, Baxcalibur, Enamorus, Garganacl, Slowking-Galar are all majorly checked by Scarf Gholdengo, let alone Ting-Lu not wanting to be Tricked.

It also has a lot of good sets and things like Trick are multi-staged against Fat, where you can run Recover and literally wall out Pokemon with natural bulk which is unique for the Ghosts in the tier, Focus Blast and be the only Ghost to not rely on Tera to get past Kingambit, and things like Air Balloon. You can always run things like Nasty Plot, coverage, and if you go Tera Ghost yeah no nobody is getting hazards off

Is it just Kingambit? Which Dragapult is also in the same tier as? And a lot of the top tiers are also weak to?

It's only gotten better since it can be paired with Samurott-Hisui which ignores Hatterene. Cinderace doesn't even really enjoy it either. Corviknight, which would be amazing for the tier due to its role compression, has its compression denied against 24.86% of teams, which also puts Gholdengo and Hrott ahead of Valiant, which doesn't mean Valiant is worse, but honestly makes the A Rank Hrott even more baffling.

Cinderace is the only thing that can somewhat reliably get hazards off against hazard stack w/ Gholdengo, and I'ma be for real: If Gholdengo did not exist, that shitmon would be in UU. Shitmon.

One could say that 5 Pokemon would be too many S Tiers, and I'd say that that reflects how over-centralized the metagame is.

So, seriously, how is Gholdengo not in S Tier?

I think that Gholdengo is the closest candidate for S- with Baxcalibur, but it’s a step behind everything in S (besides maybeeee Iron Valiant).

Yea, it’s very good, it defines part of the metagame, and it is able to carry its own weight with numerous sets on a regular basis. I agree with all of this. You can say the same about everything in S and some others, too, though. We are in a hectic, congested metagame that’s still close to a release.

It’ll definitely be voted on again and an S- will probably be considered again.