I thought that Lily's and Roro's "post wcop/end of the metagame" posts in the last viability ranking thread were really cool, so now that we're in a similar slate with SCL ending this week and DLC coming in 4 days I kinda wanted to do the same and make a final metagame tier list before getting into the new one.
S+
I feel like gambit was struggling for a while as the metagame had way more powercreep, encore, and just more tools to deal with it in general, however now that we've gone back into a very similar metagame to pre dlc, it's back to doing gambit things and it's as good as ever, but still has the same issue as before meaning it's very tera reliant. It however does bring value to the tier on the defensive end, even if that is limited by hazards (if you run boots you're not really able to get gambit in the mid game so it kinda loses that) and I still think the terablast fairy set is the insanely stupid and has no counterplay, that is the only reason I would be voting ban if say there was a suspect right this moment.
Zapdos is definitely close to being the best mon in the metagame, i'm surprised it isn't ranked higher in this thread but the strain it has against offense is insane (most sweepers being forced to run tera electric says alot) on top of being one of the only thing being able to switch into Rillaboom (not really as losing boots sucks but still can handle it fine.) Baxcalibur was the only thing really pressuring it pre-dlc so it's no surprise it would be even better without it, even allowing you to use bold instead of timid 301.
S-
Gholdengo's ability is plain dumb, but to me the defensive set which I always thought to be the most broken ever really fell from grace for some reason, it just feels really abusable and often feels useless against offense as it deals no damage and it's hard to set up. Offensive sets are much better at this very moment imo, especially the modest ballon on webs which often force you to weaken tinglu which sucks when things like Iron Moth are behind. I will say I think Sneasler's ban really nerfed it in my opinion.
an absolute glue, not much needs to be said here but it's just an amazing mon always, very consistent and rarely fails. Also harder to abuse due to hazard setting and random stone edge/heavy slam.
Was close to making this S tier, I think the boots status spam set is amazing and it's always a pain to get rid of it as you're most likely always forced to trade off. Garganacl also is almost non existent even if it's gained usage, it's still abusabled with turn.
People that know me know how much I love zamazenta, also debated on ranking it S+ but there are bulkier match ups where it's just useless (even if these are rare) so I ended up ranking it there. Boots sets is incredibly good, hits super hard and often dismantles offense/webs/slowkingdos teams if you click the right move. I feel like you can't really have much flexibility with it's moveset though, as all Edge/Crunch/CC/Slam are mandatory on the boots set which make it kinda predictable, but that doesn't do much as it's still almost impossible to switch into. Now on the iron defense set, I still think it's really dumb, if you have the right tera and don't match up into dondozo/pex (which don't exist) you have a great chance of sweeping unprepared and prepared teams, but all in all it's a gamble. This reminds me a ton of Sneasler where I thought the status spreader set was amazing for the tier and it was a shame it had to go because unburden was way too cheesy. I'm not sure if it's on the same level for me, but if the boots set didn't exist i'd probably be the biggest advocater for a ban. All in all, really great mon, love you zama.
A+
Won't get into it too much as we all know what valiant does, think the boots set is not as good as it used to be but it's always a pain facing it on hyper offense, the amount of sets it can run is just infuriating and you never know what to expect, but is also annoyed by a lot of things (tinglu tera, slowking, zapdos, clefable, rillaboom prio, ect). I think A+ is fair, but it's definitely close to S-.
Clefable provides some really good utility, it's a true pain to switch into with balance as nothing wants to come into knock off, one of the most consistent rocker as it's able to do it on tusk (main reason I don't have great tusk higher but i'll get into that later) alongside other moves like twave. On the other hand, calm mind sets always look good on paper especially with knock off, but not having a 16 pp recover move really hurt it as it needs to use A LOT against slowking, add to to that moonlight making it 25% only. It's still a glue and an amazing knock off absorber.
I don't think great tusk is as good as before, it's still very good but struggles with 4 moves syndrome and always abused by Zapdos. Clefable being on every team also helped a lot in that regard, since it's a pretty decent knock absorber. It still provides good utility and is a rare safe switch in to boots zamazenta. The booster energy variants are also very good, if you got the right coverage you can dig a lot of holes on top of providing a spinner to offense. Still very good, just less than before. Rillaboom forcing it to use headlong rush also is annoying.
Rillaboom is back now that we’ve gotten grassy glide, the choice band set hits like a truck and goodluck switching into it if you don’t have a Zapdos, but we’ve also seen the bulkier AV Sets from Stresh that worked very nice. It’s a true pain to deal with, especially paired with stuff like Heatran, Tusk, Hawlucha. Quickly makes them unkillable. Really good mon overall, Grassy terrain just has ton of value, sadly it enables too much cheese imo.
If it was up to me I think this mon would be gone from the tier, vert said it better than I ever will in his post in the metagame thread, but the lack of water resist makes this really really impossible to handle most of the time. I'm still not sure how you're supposed to handle it thought. Amoonguss can be mentionned but we've seen zen headbutts variants show up and i'll have more to say about Amoonguss later. It's not ranked higher because it's really cheesy, can’t wield an item which really hurts it and is weak to hazards. I don't think it provides anything for the tier defensively except maybe water absorb? but how much does that often come into play. Hate it, would love to see it go, but great breaker.
Not much to say, broken in sun, but sun has a lot of annoying mus (lead clefable, slowking) atm so it makes up for it.
it's very good at what it does, can feel really passive sometimes though but future sight + threats like zamazenta really feels broken sometimes.
A
Manaphy's weird because when building bulkier teams it can be really insufferable but then again it's hard to get going, weak to hazards, and usually doesn't come in/set up freely. I was 100% sure it would end up gone, still a good mon, maybe a bit unexplored on balance, feels it could work there with boots but that also sounds kinda bad.
Enamorus is one of the only viable scarfers, but it’s really annoying to run into slowking or clodsire then you're pretty much playing 5 on 6, has really good value with healing wish tho and I feel it works really well with threats like Gambit as most teams can't handle two Kingambits assault.
Way better than before for some reason, lack of toxic is still really significant but it doesn't feel as terrible as it did pre dlc, big reason is probably rillaboom providing grassy terrain and making it unkillable.
The only reason to use Amoonguss is wellspring, but facing gholdengo just puts you at too much of a disadvantage and it's just not worth it. I would call Amoonguss completely unviable and it would join Toxapex and Dondozo in the passive/momentum eaters pack if Wellspring didn’t exist.
There's no viable bulky water types at this moment so pyro ball can be really hard to switch into, provides court change which is a dope hazard removal, I think the all out attacker set is really good.
Wasn't sure where to rank it, realized I forgot it in the tierlist but I think this is a fair spot, huge Cornerstone enjoyer over there, true pain to switch into, same problem as wellspring though, weak to hazards and here it's even worse cause you most likely wanna keep sturdy. But used on a Cinderace and Tusk team, or an ho that can prevent rocks most of the time, I could see it being really good.
A-
Skeledirge can turn games around and unaware is a life saver sometimes, it gained alot in usage recently and i'm a fan of it, but the fact that you're always forced to run boots/slack off everytime is disheartening and makes it passive/abusable (not really tho since it has wisp).
Always felt conflicted about moth, it was a pure monster pre dlc especially in the Vert's sun, and can still be a threat if you let your tinglu get worn down by gholdengo on offense. Still can't ever get past TingLu though so that's why it's not higher, also doesn't provide any defensive utility, I thought the boots sets had potential but they're really passive and always having to morning sun is annoying.
Great all around closer, Zapdos being everywhere doesn't help it's case since once its paralysed it's much easier to handle.
I hate this mon man, hits like a truck, drops your defense with razor shell, it's really a pain to deal with and having to concede a free spike is dumb, i'm with vert get this out the tier.
Dropped in usage but the helmet set still provides good support, I was a huge fan of the sub smack down lando during OLT but pult being everywhere makes it really hard to use.
B+
Really wish it got Knock off or Scald back, but well I feel like it's even more passive than before, too hard to use without getting abused by Gholdengo or Glowking.
I think Tornadus really deserves to be ranked higher but just couldn't find it in me to do so. Nasty plot sets are def underexplored and I feel like some terablast ice stuff should have a niche, but the bulky knock off set is really good into balance, only Zapdos really comes in and loses it's boots and if it doesn't get the static on that knock off Tornadus can be really hard to switch into. Not sure why it doesn't get more usage.
Probably the best suicide lead around, always annoying to remove if your team is tspike weak, but that’s about it.
Best water resist probably, but still really passive and easy to take advantage of.
Sash Ceruledge is so good on HO man, I think it's insanely underrated and with poltergeist it hits really, really hard. Huge fan of Ceruledge, just hard to fit on non ho teams, but I promise it's good.
It was surprisingly pretty good pre dlc but struggles to find its form again. It just really regained its passivness it always had and really isn’t worth using.
Too slow, frail never does anything, same problem it always had.
Just like Sneasler I think it can cheese way more than people think. But it'll always need to tera to get past stuff like Zapdos or Gholdengo and doesn't have dire claw, just a walmart sneasler but actually possible to deal with.
Getting scald back was huge but still really passive if you run into an absorber like Ogerpon where you can't do anything really, wish passing into non water absorb match up is really good tho.
Only viable on stall, same as before, way too passive.
Does enable a lot of cheesy structure, always really annoying to deal with and I thought the grassy seed sets were super broken pre dlc, magic bounce will always have a niche and draining kiss recovery is broken.
U-Turn + Encore/Weavile was good to deal with Gliscor but now it's back to the same old shit, will forever be abused by Gholdengo, just too passive.
Always been a big enjoyer of Meowscaradra but it simply doesn't have the same impact it did, doesn't have breaker power even with guaranteed crit chances.
Underrated, most of the time forces a tera on TingLu but weak to hazards, has to run the worst item in the game. It’ll always have a niche however.
Maushold is definitely top 1 on my opp list, population bomb is broken and if you asked me I would send it to ubers. (almost broke my screen when i got 6-0'd by lead tera electric maushold the other day), broken, ban it.
Won't get into every single mon in the B/C tier, just the ones that I think have a niche, but most of them are just cheese/unviable to use because no longetivity or whatever
Best sticky web setter by far, it also most of the time does more than set the web and die, you don’t wanna get your mons paralysed and moonblast hits hard.
Would rate higher if veil was better, but it simply isn't good.
I really think that mon is good and is unexplored, can come in freely into zapdos (unless u-turn but yeah) and nasty plot run through teams, with Grass Knot/Thunderbolt and another coverage move. Always struggle a ton when matching up into it, really feels like it could actually be good but prob hard to set up and useless into offense.
Knock off will always have value, but too weak, expecting it to be top tier once triple axel is back.
Struggles to cheese like it did pre dlc thanksfully, Ogerpon is a big part of that.
Too weak, speed boost will always be valuable however.
Huge Goodra enjoyer here, can knock off and hard to switch into in general, aesf broke the metagame when he paired it with alomomola and Mimikyu Stardust made a fire team with it (even tho i'm not a fan of the walled by gholdengo set, i can see why it's good), so yeah big Goodra fan.
I always get destroyed by the SD Loaded dice set, definitely some unexplored potential there, I think it can be really good.
Fogbound showed everyone what this mon can do, but he also showed how unviable hustle can be, but great balance destroyer for sure.
Boots set definitely has some underrated potential, pretty hard to switch into.
Hopefully we don't go back to the third metagame a third time in a row, happy dlc discovery to everyone.