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Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]
- Thread starter Finchinator
- Start date
- Status
I don't really get why Gholdengo dropped. I think it can do well even with Kingambit and G-Tusk around due to it countering Baxcalibur and Hatterene and Tera-Fighting is pretty popular to beat Kingambit. Scarf sets can even beat Dragapult and I-Valiant.
*Edit: Good as Gold can also help against Pokémon like Amoonguss and Breloom with Spore, and the many Thunder Wave users that are popular. (Most notably Rotom-Wash and S-Tail)
*Edit: Good as Gold can also help against Pokémon like Amoonguss and Breloom with Spore, and the many Thunder Wave users that are popular. (Most notably Rotom-Wash and S-Tail)
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Stail and hax rises are the only things I didn't see coming. Bax stocks have been rising since the gen started, dd tera dragon and sd tera ice both w/dice are incredible rn. Can we get some insight on why haxorus is rising with the dominance of all the other dragons? I feel like moon is the only one that really struggles with the unaware mons out of the ou drags.
from A- to B+
from C to UR
So for my question, why is Greninja in B+ when there are Pokémon such as Clodsire and Garchomp (who I've personally seen have bigger metagame presences from replays).
Also what made Kilowattrel even somewhat viable in the first place in OU
Hax with screens can do pretty good since it has EQ, Crunch and some other stuff, it needs support of course but if you pull it off it can be a nice DD sweeper with 147 attack, though it lacks secondary STAB.
in a few words: with support it can work (ofc there are better options though for its role)
From my experience on high ladder, I really am not seeing roaring moon much at all, and gholdengo+dnite continue to be very strong A+ mons.
As others have stated, bax is often more threatening and much less reliant on tera than roaring moon. Is the speed booster taunt set the reason for this rise? I just can't think of a reason why roaring moon would rise AFTER the shed tail ban.
Gholdengo is imo still an A+ mon, it continues to be a lynchpin in hstack teams and people are starting to explore the specs set, which I personally am finding to be amazing. With shed tail off the map and hstack harassing fatter teams which are more common after a shed tail ban, I don't see why this is dropping.
Dnite dropping I can kind of understand if you're sticking with the same dd eq espeed roost (although this set improved with the shed tail ban), but it has definitely gotten more dangerous and flexible sets since the last update. The DD/dclaw/fire punch/encore set with tera fire adds another dimension of tera horseshit to dnite, and the counterplay to tera fire is much different than to the standard dd set. We've seen an uptick in encore on azu, ival, dnite, and scream tail as a way to annoy garg and other fat mons. And finally, Pinkacross and I made a team with cb dnite tera blast flying which is quite frankly cracked. Pinka has reached and stayed in top 5 on the ladder for about a week, and it's a criminally underrated set that absolutely crushes stall and many other fat teams. So take all those 3 solid sets, throw in that weird special roost set too, and it's a really versatile mon. All in all, dnite should be remaining A+ and idk why its dropping.
Now about arbo...
-Finch, March 23, 2023
-Finch, today
We truly live in a society
No seriously garg back to tearing it up after the shed tail ban and arbo still isn't even on the map? Do I need to provide more high ladder replays of it putting in work in the modern meta? There are some recent trends like av pex and amnesia clodsire which make the old sub 3 attack set worse, but that is why I've subbed in leech seed and it's still been doin great.
Looking at the current VR, I would personally place this mon at B. It's performance is comparable to breloom and sandy shocks, pokemon that definitely need team support but can be really scary and solid. I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to provide to show how viable this mon is.
As others have stated, bax is often more threatening and much less reliant on tera than roaring moon. Is the speed booster taunt set the reason for this rise? I just can't think of a reason why roaring moon would rise AFTER the shed tail ban.
Gholdengo is imo still an A+ mon, it continues to be a lynchpin in hstack teams and people are starting to explore the specs set, which I personally am finding to be amazing. With shed tail off the map and hstack harassing fatter teams which are more common after a shed tail ban, I don't see why this is dropping.
Dnite dropping I can kind of understand if you're sticking with the same dd eq espeed roost (although this set improved with the shed tail ban), but it has definitely gotten more dangerous and flexible sets since the last update. The DD/dclaw/fire punch/encore set with tera fire adds another dimension of tera horseshit to dnite, and the counterplay to tera fire is much different than to the standard dd set. We've seen an uptick in encore on azu, ival, dnite, and scream tail as a way to annoy garg and other fat mons. And finally, Pinkacross and I made a team with cb dnite tera blast flying which is quite frankly cracked. Pinka has reached and stayed in top 5 on the ladder for about a week, and it's a criminally underrated set that absolutely crushes stall and many other fat teams. So take all those 3 solid sets, throw in that weird special roost set too, and it's a really versatile mon. All in all, dnite should be remaining A+ and idk why its dropping.
Now about arbo...
-Finch, March 23, 2023
-Finch, today
We truly live in a society
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1855619054-yrubs4qi6fr1we2mz28i7dka0zjp5uspw You can see here it harasses a bulkier team with av pex, refusing to be rk'd by pult until the games basically over.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1855486548-u9enggvmkxto42yjlgz4sfo3zgap8pvpw While I do lose this match, arbo with tera was able to beat a scary NP gholdengo and even after tera fire, it didn't lose to ting-lu 1v1 as it heals up a ton with giga+weakens the next eq with terrain.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1855056914-av4sv42zdqumec5dkyamj9fprao71pfpw It's able to hold its own vs an NP hydreigon and takes a few hits from sylveon
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1854393375-5xx22q5sxg1moqc05441btlciz185vppw This was an exciting one vs storm zone, where arbo got crit and had to be sacked, but the grassy terrain heals gholdengo enough to live more rounds of spikes.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1854276807-fthdiyx97uj8v5p03g2swj5lhkj31fypw Corrosion glimmora showing how cool of a partner it is here and catching corv with a surprise toxic, which helps sub seed arbo be the bastard it was this game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1853945524-qzz8f0dxeqndgmwd4153o1fbkjazgs8pw Here you can see me recklessly switching arboliva into alomomola because thanks to grassy terrain+leftovers, I never have to worry about whirlpool chip adding up. I can click leech seed and heal up my friends to offset the chip damage stall wants to dish out, and then you can see here how effective the cb dnite set I mentioned before is (jump to turn 73)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1851544244-citpiuadj3sihs678nerzusxjdeqmuspw Again, arboliva harasses av pex, gets over it with the help of corrosion glimmora, and especially on turn 35 it can just stay in on scarf make it rain and force gholdengo out.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1859074681-v4yavm5lj4qee3we2x9n6efexoe8bzepw Even in a bad matchup for arboliva, it's able to weaken WW+deny agility+power up scarf meow's flower trick to keep it under control. Might've done more if it wasn't crit, as I didn't need to tera this game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1859727833-1piden9ek3687qa34xbbnx1ubvsvmacpw GUEST APPEARANCE BY STORM ZONE BRINGING ARBO TO #1 LOOL DESTROYED THIS MAN
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1855486548-u9enggvmkxto42yjlgz4sfo3zgap8pvpw While I do lose this match, arbo with tera was able to beat a scary NP gholdengo and even after tera fire, it didn't lose to ting-lu 1v1 as it heals up a ton with giga+weakens the next eq with terrain.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1855056914-av4sv42zdqumec5dkyamj9fprao71pfpw It's able to hold its own vs an NP hydreigon and takes a few hits from sylveon
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1854393375-5xx22q5sxg1moqc05441btlciz185vppw This was an exciting one vs storm zone, where arbo got crit and had to be sacked, but the grassy terrain heals gholdengo enough to live more rounds of spikes.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1854276807-fthdiyx97uj8v5p03g2swj5lhkj31fypw Corrosion glimmora showing how cool of a partner it is here and catching corv with a surprise toxic, which helps sub seed arbo be the bastard it was this game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1853945524-qzz8f0dxeqndgmwd4153o1fbkjazgs8pw Here you can see me recklessly switching arboliva into alomomola because thanks to grassy terrain+leftovers, I never have to worry about whirlpool chip adding up. I can click leech seed and heal up my friends to offset the chip damage stall wants to dish out, and then you can see here how effective the cb dnite set I mentioned before is (jump to turn 73)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1851544244-citpiuadj3sihs678nerzusxjdeqmuspw Again, arboliva harasses av pex, gets over it with the help of corrosion glimmora, and especially on turn 35 it can just stay in on scarf make it rain and force gholdengo out.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1859074681-v4yavm5lj4qee3we2x9n6efexoe8bzepw Even in a bad matchup for arboliva, it's able to weaken WW+deny agility+power up scarf meow's flower trick to keep it under control. Might've done more if it wasn't crit, as I didn't need to tera this game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1859727833-1piden9ek3687qa34xbbnx1ubvsvmacpw GUEST APPEARANCE BY STORM ZONE BRINGING ARBO TO #1 LOOL DESTROYED THIS MAN
Looking at the current VR, I would personally place this mon at B. It's performance is comparable to breloom and sandy shocks, pokemon that definitely need team support but can be really scary and solid. I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to provide to show how viable this mon is.
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Gholdengo doesn't counter Bax. Banded Bax 2HKOs most variants while DD slams it with EQ. If I had to guess, it's just that Gholdengo struggles more with the offensive meta. I'd argue that no matter what, each set has issues. Scarf only really handles unboosted threats, not speed boosted threats (And it's surprising easy to pivot around). NP variants struggle with moves as past NP+stabs, you want recover but running that leaves you walled by Kingambit, and running a coverage move leaves Gholdengo easy to overwhelm. Air balloon just feels inconsistent due to how often it has the balloon popped.
If Hax can get ranked, then Arbo needs to be at least C- for starters and it can rise from there lol.
I would agree w the B rank but I can't in good faith because I haven't personally used it much.
Glad I'm not the only one who hasn't seen Moon in any real capacity 1800+ in some time.
It feels nitpicky/splitting hairs about an A rank vs A+ rank, but as far as I know VR rankings are another tool for newer players to get a grasp of the meta, and if they load up Moon expecting to get A+ results then I personally don't think they'll have that experience.
If they expect Moon to be on par with Val, Volca, Bax then they'll be confused, or at least disappointed.
I'd go so far to say Moon could be A-, if not a B+ on a bad day.
It's taunt niche is situational at best and dead weight set vs certain MU.
It's typing would be better if King Tusk didn't rule the meta, but here we are.
Might be considered a hot take but that's just my opinion.
However-
It definitely hasn't gotten better since last VR update, I don't think anyone can disagree with that.
I think part of the confusion people are having to the drops is that from what I can tell there's a lot of disparity low vs high ladder as to what people are using. I'm around 1300 now and I hardly ever see Bax. Roaring Moon isn't too common a sight on non-Sun teams. I've never seen a Scream Tail. There's definitely a delay down here on seeing newer sets that are doing very well in high level play now
Sorry, it's been a really long week for me on a personal level; motivation is not great with Home looming overhead and me being really tired, so it took a few extra days. Thanks to everyone for your patience -- nobody really bothered me and that was really appreciated. Here is the slate:
Rises
Drops
from A to A+
from A to A+
from A- to A
from A- to A
from B+ to A-
from B to A-
from C+ to B-
from Uber/UR to C+
from C to C+
from UR to C
from UR to C
Feel free to ask questions about the rises and drops, but I will probably not get to them (or updating the OP) until late Sunday or Monday. Thanks!
from S- to A+
from S- to A+
from A+ to A
from A+ to A
from A to A-
from A- to B+
from A- to B+
from A- to UR
from A- to B+
from A- to B+
from B+ to B
from B to B-
from B- to C+
from B- to C+
from B- to C+
from B- to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C- to UR
Okay so I have some opinions:
Volc dropping is a bit interesting for me? what changed in the last 2 months for it to drop? It's still a threat and abuses tera hella. I guess I don't understand the drop at all it's definitely S- at worst. It has about 7 viable sets you can run and they vary with Tera Blast being abused. If you're going off usage which shouldn't be the case it sits out right in the top 10, so people are using it and with Valiant rising it becomes the best answer for Special Attacking Valiant.
How hasn't Valiant become S- by now? It's probably the most versatile sweeper in the game with the ability to always speed check whatever it needs to with the Booster Energy set. Valiant is the same argument as Volc, too much sets to account for plus it's high speed when running Scarf / Booster Energy. It's usage also increased so it can take on 4x resistances from Gambit Dark moves.
GHOLDENGO DROPPING L O FUCKING L, bruh I made the same argument last viability ranking reveal. Lets be real, maybe it's not an S mon but what did it do to deserve a drop? Spike spam is still a thing, yeah Cinderace Court Change is nice but if predicted right it does about (252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cinderace: 252-297 (83.7 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) to Cinderace if you predict right. It's ability is straight up OP, does not get statused and you cannot defog / rapid spin / mortal spin It can run various sets and with success.
Thanks for the council for all the hard work put into this, I do appreciate it!
from UR --------> C-Alright everyone, 1LDK here, it's no secret that this gen lacks birds (tera flying doesn't count) this allows raptor to get a tinsy tiny niche. Which I wanna showcase to everyone
(IDK if this is the appropriate time to do this, I'm sorry if its not, but I looked up, and it seems like I'm in the clear, so apologys in advance if something goes wrong)
The Niche: On specifically HO, Staraptor can act as a Fast Wall breaker for early/mid-game, allowing easy momentum via suicide or U-turn, what sets it apart from something like dragonite, who in paper is also a physical flying type, is that Dragonite only uses flying moves when going special, Staraptor also doesn't give you a fairy weakness, which is cool when Valiant is a thing
The set:
Staraptor @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
Tera Type: Fire / Flying
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Quick Attack / Double Edge
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- U-turn
Brave Bird is the STAB move that's most gonna get spammed, there are not a lot of mons that can survive a reckless brave bird
Close Combat is for the mons that do survive the brave bird onslaught, most of them cannot survive this combination, and both stabs punish tera steel/fairy defensive teras
U-turn allows it to keep momentum on the switch or against mons that block both stabs
Quick Attack is a nice side priority on situations where you need the priority, while Double Edge hits Rotom-Wash harder
One option that im not including, yet is worth noting is the use of Final Gambit as a way to really put the suicide into the suicide attacker, base raptor has 311 base hp with no investment, so you can spice it up a little bit
Tera Flying is for massive instant destruction
Tera Fire allows it to survive a +1 Flamethrower from Volc, thus, allowing it to check it as a 1 time emergency, it also slows down fire type mons for a sec
0 SpA Skeledirge Torch Song vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Staraptor: 71-84 (22.7 - 26.9%) -- 33.1% chance to 4HKO
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Staraptor: 188-222 (60.2 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Staraptor: 188-222 (60.2 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Staraptor: 149-176 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Staraptor: 165-195 (52.8 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Staraptor: 188-222 (60.2 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Staraptor: 188-222 (60.2 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Staraptor: 149-176 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Staraptor: 165-195 (52.8 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Choice Band + Adamant should only be used when using Webs as a way to naturally outspeed faster enemys, this lets raptor transform slow mons into dust
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 40+ Def Skeledirge: 319-376 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Garganacl: 220-259 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (water gets the same roll)
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 438-516 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Water Great Tusk: 219-258 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 238-282 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Garganacl: 220-259 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (water gets the same roll)
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 438-516 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Water Great Tusk: 219-258 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 238-282 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
While these are impressive calcs, the necessity of webs makes it specific, but the damage is worth the issue. Now, let's talk about Choice Scarf
Choice scarf allows raptor to be an early game wall breaker with instant speed, and the damage is still decent
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 266-314 (61.2 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 40+ Def Skeledirge: 195-229 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 148-176 (36.6 - 43.5%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Garganacl: 135-159 (33.4 - 39.3%) -- 11.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 280-331 (93 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 172-204 (54 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Reckless Tera Fire Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 482-570 (166.7 - 197.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Reckless Tera Fire Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 116-137 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 96.8% chance to 3HKO (1hit with Multiscale)
252 Atk Reckless Tera Fire Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 232-274 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this Dragonite was at 99% health)
252 Atk Reckless Tera Fire Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 438-516 (101.3 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 204-242 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 328-386 (93.4 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 36 Def Toxapex: 151-178 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 127-150 (37 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 272-320 (83.6 - 98.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 40+ Def Skeledirge: 195-229 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 148-176 (36.6 - 43.5%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Garganacl: 135-159 (33.4 - 39.3%) -- 11.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 280-331 (93 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 172-204 (54 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Reckless Tera Fire Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 482-570 (166.7 - 197.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Reckless Tera Fire Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 116-137 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 96.8% chance to 3HKO (1hit with Multiscale)
252 Atk Reckless Tera Fire Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 232-274 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this Dragonite was at 99% health)
252 Atk Reckless Tera Fire Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 438-516 (101.3 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 204-242 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 328-386 (93.4 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 36 Def Toxapex: 151-178 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 127-150 (37 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 272-320 (83.6 - 98.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
In this meta where speed matters a lot, especially on and against HO, Staraptor fulfills the niche of an unsuspecting yet powerful attacker
Teammates:
1)
If you're building a team with Staraptor, Kingambit should be paired alongside it, because Staraptor has a decent matchup against a good portion of Kingambits checks- U-turn and Recoil suicide can give Kingambit a free entry and a potential Supreme Overlord boost, this allows one of the already strongest Pokémon in the metagame have an easier time muscling through the entire enemy team2)
/ Staraptor appreciates having hazard removal on its team, due to its stealth rock weakness and poor bulk, in return, Staraptor can potentially clean house against rockers and spinners alike3)
/ as hazard setters, both can potentially tip over the edge of the calcs for raptor with hazards, which also goes well naturally in HOCounters:
Is the hardest counter to staraptor, which basically eats any hit forever, roosting off and letting raptor die with rocky helmet chip or Brave bird raptor and 
if physically defensive, both can block raptor, gholdengo blocks both stabs with easy, and rotom can cripple him or use it as momentum with Volt-Switch, both need to be careful with U-turn shenanigans tho
if Booster energy and thunderbolt are in play, then raptor gets zapped, and dies I know that fire lets you emergency check +1 volc, but +2 is game overReplays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1828437120-1hb62fnjwc3t0l0tedj6rf37xumrc7dpw
(Here, the Staraptor kills tusk, and helps Kingambit sweep late game) (also, I'm sorry andviet, you know I love you)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1839420562-l1k3ro4aar5o2p3om52eousn6tjkk5rpw
(A guy on the seasonals that I don't know who he is used raptor as an early game suicide bomb, which, also, helped kingambit clean late game, shoutouts to you my guy)
In conclusion
Idk how to write conclusions, but at least you know that there's a niche, please give me likes and thank you for reading
I legit almost said the same thing about Volc but figured I was just missing something as a casual player lol
It feels like the premier special sweeper of the meta and the definition of a splashable mon.
Flame Body isn't discussed nearly enough as it should be, as it allows bulky Volc to casually be a soft check to some of the best mons in the tier such as Gambit and E-Nite as well as punishing U-turns and Rapid Spin. That's just a slightly overlooked bonus instead of a main feature of the mon because MU Moth is insane lol
Volc is punching a gigantic hole in almost every team when it finds a good turn, which isn't difficult.
If I had to take some random guesses as to why it was demoted:
- Its Tera's are generally getting condensed a little- there's basically only 4-5 viable, team sweeping teras instead of 9
- B a x can't be burned and can sometimes win against a Grass tera bulky variant if no SR up
- A burned fallen 5 gambit (after tera) at +2 can win a 1v1 late game vs weakened Volc if you get every turn right
- Clodsire, AV pex (unless ground variant), CM Bliss exist and some people might have that mon and also have it at full and also play it correctly
- Tera Fire Dagonite (?)
- Skeledirge.. is lurking (spooky)
If I had to take a flyer on this, it's that hazard removal options are becoming increasingly prepared to fight Gholdengo (except Corv). I definitely feel like there are more AoA Tusks running around than the non-max Speed ones, so Gholdy can't really switch into a Spin safely most of the time. Even in your hypothetical CinderGhol head2head, it doesn't change the fact that Ghold doesn't block Court Change. Even the Mortal Spin Glimms can nail a 2HKO with Earth Power on the switch in. It also doesn't help that Ghol is naturally slower than the popular hazard removal in the tier.
Also, for clarification, Gholdengo is not affected by Status moves but is still affected by status condition (e.g. Nuzzle).
C –> C-to the 1 person remaining who still thinks this stupid metal elephant is even somewhat viable, no it is not its outclassed by cyclizar as a fast spinner stop holding onto it
anyways for a slightly more serious talk
should go to C at the very least, as it is effective at countering psyspam and also deals with many mons, its substitute set hard counters most garg sets and it hits quite hard with a massive 125 special attack. It also counters the occasional washing mashine and is an effective stall killer. (it also beats lando-t whenever that releases)dozo's overrated and can drop back to B-
I have only one question being why did Clodsire drop? It's still very good and is a great special unaware wall, and it beats Volcarona very easily. It's very good, so I don't know why it's not in A-
Was this not more a case of why use Godzilla when you can use Mega Weavile?
To be fair, when Pao was around there was not reason why run Bax over him.
I think this is the main, issue, depends so much on tera rn to do what it needs and if it got the wrong type it might be dead weight for the team in some match ups, and that is not what a S- mon should be. For Gholdengo, what others have said, it only really stops Corviknight from the removal, for the others you need to get the 50-50 everytime or else it will be just a sack.
Here to take my spin on it. A lot of these changes only make sense when you look at them together. For example: Why did dozo and scream tail rise with ghold dropping? Most likely the answer is the rise in this team, an extremely popular spl balance core with dozo pex and scream tail. It also carries cinderace, which invalidated a lot of ghold’s spike stacking teams.
Looking at the rest of the list this way, most of the drops are trimming the UU fat, sun and anti sun Pokémon. The drops that stand out are Pult, Volc, Dnite, and Ghold. These are just some of the best Pokémon around. You have to actively go out of your way to not run one of them because they’re just really really good, no strings attached. So why’d they drop?
My guess is this tier list was heavily influenced by shed tail, with only last minutes adjustments to reflect the ban. Shed tail was crazy popular during the run time of the OU tournaments, and only got more optimized as time went on. People optimized the sweepers, dropping dnite and volc for sweepers like moon and bax, who rose this list. Pokémon like Grimmsnarl also dropped, representing the optimization of shed tail to not include screens. This is the only way I could see Hax actually rising, like literally how did it rise without some shed tail bias.
My second guess would be the rise of Tusk and gambit. These Pokémon have stupid use rates. With the drop of volc and pult there no longer exists an S-, making those two the only S tier Pokémon. Dropping these Pokémon could highlight the power difference between Tusk Gambit and the rest of the tier, while gambit’s rise also directly weakens dnite pult and ghold. This guess I’m not very confident on. If the intentions was truly to make tusk and gambit higher, why not just move then to S+? Gambit’s rise does make the ghosts a little worse, but why would volc drop? Wilo volc is one of the only ways to stop gambit consistently. It also doesn’t explain the rises. Why did Moon rise? Why did hax rise? Why did hax rise?
Well, there could be one reason..
December 14, 2022
A hax rise, and a dnite drop? Taking away our shed tail to slow the meta down for big stall, only breakable by Hax. I see you Mr. Finch, and I can only ask for you to put golduck in B-. Thank you for reading.
Might I ask why Roaring Moon rose? I'm happy to see it's become better, though is it because the Dragon Dance set is gaining more traction or perhaps the Choice Band set?
Edit: On top of that, why did Greninja drop, both in viability and usage? I figure that it's colorful movepool and the fact that it's a Special Attacker who can play mixed would give it an edge over Meowscarada and Cinderace.
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if chien pao came back i dont think bax would drop in viability much, jolly glaive rush is more powerful than adamant crunch, its a lot bulkier, and it can boost speed if it wants to. Obvioulsly chien pao is better but no one had bothered to figure out how to use bax yet, i think we'd be seeing both of them on teams if pao came back to form a pretty scary wallbreaker core.
Why did Dondozo rise? From my experience, it's incredibly passive and easily overwhemled, does nothing to progress the state of the game, and with shed tail being banned, I'd assume setup sweepers are even less relevant than before, so I don't see much of a reason to use it. I'd honestly rather use Quagsire as an unuware wall since at least that can set up hazards and spread Toxic.
if special attackers are eliminated then dozo can end the game with curse/rest/liquidation/filler. The fact that he isnt required mid game to try and break a shed tail sub from a sweeper makes him a better and more reliable win-con
When has that never been the case? People always knew what Dondozo could do, that's why everybody adapted to it and it became easy to play around. Dondozo hasn't discovered any new set so it's not doing anything different. It's still as passive as ever and hard to fit on most teams
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