Metagame SV Pokebilities AAA

Since this is now a permanent ladder I might as well make a serious case to unban Keldeo.

1) It doesn't have a usable native ability, so it relies entirely on its AAA ability to function. This alone is not a reason to unban it but it already shows that it is kinda overshadowed in its role by the likes of Greninja (both normal and Battle Bond).

2) :toxapex: :reuniclus: :slowking-galar: :hydrapple: It's pretty bad into alomst every native Regenerator, it needs to hit Specs Primordial Sea Hydro against most of them to make a dent, and then since it's choice locked they can just pivot out. It's also bad against several common AAA Regenerators like Primarina and Hatterene

3) :clodsire: :gastrodon: :ogerpon-wellspring: It's even worse against Water Absorb mons, native ones in particular already beat it pretty badly and then you can potentially slap Water Absorb on anything to make a workable Keldeo check out of thin air, like Water Absorb Great Tusk

4) Desolate Land also works similarly but it is less reliable against Primordial Sea specifically.

5) Keldeo is also really vulnerable to being revenge killed, both by faster mons (some of which like Latios, Desoland Iron Moth or Ogerpon-Wellspring can even afford to hard-switch in sometimes), and by priority like Grassy Glide and Gale Wings Brave Bird.

The main takeaway is that most teams prepare naturally for Keldeo by including basic stuff like a Regenerator core, a Water immunity, Grassy Glide or a Pokémon faster than 108 base.

Since Tinted Lens is now restricted Serperior could also be considered for a unban, but it is not such a clear cut case as Keldeo in my opinion.
 
Celebrating the new perma ladder, ya girl has been goofing around with weather!

Barraskewda @ Choice Band
Ability: Dazzling
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drill Run
- Flip Turn
- Liquidation
- Poison Jab

Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Volt Switch
- Earthquake

Veluza @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Aqua Cutter
- Psycho Cut
- Drill Run

Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Protect

Alomomola @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Scald
- Wish
- Mirror Coat

Samurott-Hisui @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Flip Turn
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword

Ok so there's a method to the madness that is the meme Veluza- ...ok it's the only Mold Breaker mon with Flip Turn left. Could try Mold Breaker Floatzel, or even MB Barra but I prefer Dazzling on Barra for anti prio and Veluza has a nice secondary STAB in Psycho Cut (just better coverage in general) but I can see Focus Punch Floatzel being a high risk way to punish Heatran. PJab on Barra for Oger, Drill Run for Desolate Land Heatran. Hands continues to stay an insane regen pivot that is vastly underrated.


Great Tusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Knock Off
- Ice Spinner

Torkoal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Body Press

Alomomola @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Scald
- Mirror Coat

Lilligant-Hisui (F) @ Protective Pads
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Victory Dance
- Axe Kick
- Solar Blade
- Triple Axel

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- U-turn

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Solar Power
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb

You ever just want to NUKE shit? Yeah, Adamant Banded Proto Tusk is just pure crack in the form of a button clicker, and with Chlorophyll you outspeed near everything. It is genuinely HILARIOUS how hard this thing hits. Protective Pads Lilli-H is also nuts, No Guard because you can still miss with Triple Axel with Compound Eyes (and might as well use Axe Kick at that point). Still not super sold on Solar Power Venusaur, was considering Chlorophyll Charizard but it's soooo weak to Heatran and suffers a bit from 4MSS, could prob drop Solar Beam on it for Scorching Sands though.


I think weather teams are huge matchup fishes tbh though, they are insanely weak to Primordial Sea/Desolate Land users like Heatran, Woger, Zapdos, Torn-T, Cinderace, etc. Fun? Oh most certainly, but very very inconsistent. Cheers to permaladder!
 
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Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
This set is very fun to use, people slack on their Dragon resists and try to rely on raw bulk to check it.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shadow Shield Reuniclus: 140-165 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
You outdamage regen healing on 14/16 damage rolls, meaning next time they come in they take the full brunt of the draco meteor for an easy 2hko
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 189-223 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Smashes Goodra-Hisui for well over half

sorta matchup fishy, facing an Iron Crown/Scream Tail/Hatt feels pretty bad but people really love to slack on their dragon resists so this set applies enormous pressure


Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
I need to test if Hydreigon actually works but it seems to have potential, it is slower and slightly weaker but it has a superior defensive typing imo (dark resistant instead of weak) and stab dark pulse lets it threaten Reuniclus with greater ease, also good to spam into spdef corv to flinch them. Fireblast hits non-wbb corv for huge damage, flash cannon hits ScreamTail/Hatterene
I think Hydreigon has a better chance of being good with non-dragon's maw abiltiies cause it has a better secondary stab (honestly tempted to drop psyshock on latios for flip)
So in total:
Pros: Secondary dark stab is a solid click into bulky psychics and steels that would attempt to stave off Latios (Reuniclus, Crown, Heatran, Corv) while also hitting Scream/hatt for neutral
Fire blast lets you threaten non-wbb corv and flash cannon really discourages Scream/Hatt
Superior defensive typing by virtue of Dark resistance, Latios doesn't get much use out of Fighting resistance considering the dark weakness
Has nasty plot
Cons: Slower, weaker, walled by Primarina
Fighting weakness not fun to have

Maybe?
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Filler
- Nasty Plot
Focus blast is used over Earth Power since it also hits Ting Lu and threatens to OHKO Hoodra at +2
I personally really like the immediately threat of specs though

Q. Why Dragon's maw over Beads of Ruin?
Simple, damage.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 189-223 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Dragon's maw offers a 12.5% boost to your dragon moves compared to beads of ruin which is super significant.
In this example, the damage difference between them on Hoodra is basically equivalent to an extra round of stealth rock chip (extra 6% or so) which is huge.
 
sleepyfwog said:
Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
This set is very fun to use, people slack on their Dragon resists and try to rely on raw bulk to check it.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shadow Shield Reuniclus: 140-165 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
You outdamage regen healing on 14/16 damage rolls, meaning next time they come in they take the full brunt of the draco meteor for an easy 2hko
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 189-223 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Smashes Goodra-Hisui for well over half

sorta matchup fishy, facing an Iron Crown/Scream Tail/Hatt feels pretty bad but people really love to slack on their dragon resists so this set applies enormous pressure


Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
I need to test if Hydreigon actually works but it seems to have potential, it is slower and slightly weaker but it has a superior defensive typing imo (dark resistant instead of weak) and stab dark pulse lets it threaten Reuniclus with greater ease, also good to spam into spdef corv to flinch them. Fireblast hits non-wbb corv for huge damage, flash cannon hits ScreamTail/Hatterene
I think Hydreigon has a better chance of being good with non-dragon's maw abiltiies cause it has a better secondary stab (honestly tempted to drop psyshock on latios for flip)
So in total:
Pros: Secondary dark stab is a solid click into bulky psychics and steels that would attempt to stave off Latios (Reuniclus, Crown, Heatran, Corv) while also hitting Scream/hatt for neutral
Fire blast lets you threaten non-wbb corv and flash cannon really discourages Scream/Hatt
Superior defensive typing by virtue of Dark resistance, Latios doesn't get much use out of Fighting resistance considering the dark weakness
Has nasty plot
Cons: Slower, weaker, walled by Primarina
Fighting weakness not fun to have

Maybe?
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Filler
- Nasty Plot
Focus blast is used over Earth Power since it also hits Ting Lu and threatens to OHKO Hoodra at +2
I personally really like the immediately threat of specs though

Q. Why Dragon's maw over Beads of Ruin?
Simple, damage.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 189-223 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Dragon's maw offers a 12.5% boost to your dragon moves compared to beads of ruin which is super significant.
In this example, the damage difference between them on Hoodra is basically equivalent to an extra round of stealth rock chip (extra 6% or so) which is huge.
Click to expand...
Kinda sucks how dragons maw is weaker than adaptability
 
Hello my lovelies, it's me back with another team :) I used sleepyfwog's Latios set as inspiration for the core idea- Drag Spam!
https://pokepast.es/a4ca0bb0c3349d0a

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
- Tailwind

Vice, this is the third time you've brought Corviknight to class... IT'S REALLY GOOD OK? Corvi is the best mon in the tier for the reason and an amazing defensive pivot. This time, I'm rocking Tailwind support because it is crucial for helping our relatively slow team outpace faster offense. Volt Absorb to help against opposing Regieleki, Iron Hands as well as stopping steels like Cobalion and Iron Crown.

Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Flip Turn
- Psychic Noise

Sleepyfwog's set with some tweaks. Flip Turn and Psynoise, FT for pivoting being and breaking Reuniclus Shadow Shield/Sturdy on some mons, and Psynoise because it punishes healing attempts, but more important- it bypasses substitute. Sub Zamazenta can be a huge problem for this team, so it's good insurance, especially since 9 times out of 10 we're clicking Draco or Dragon Pulse.

Samurott-Hisui @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Sucker Punch
- Ceaseless Edge
- Aqua Cutter

Now, why banded Hamu on Dragspam? Helps pressure fairies that want to try and resist its dark moves, and also scouts out/puts MORE pressure on Corvi since it can often be a team's defensive wall. Basically a lose/lose, if Corvi if phys def it loses to Drag Spam, and if it's SpD it loses to Hamu. Lastly, spikes are nuts and Choice Band SoR hits like a semi.

Regidrago @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Dragon Energy
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Scale Shot

The set I was most unsure of, MGLO Regidrago! Why MGLO over something like Specs, Scarf, hell even Adaptability? Well, MG lets you bypass hazard, sand, etc. chip damage, allowing you to spam Dragon Energy on switch in without worrying about chip weakening it. ALSO, MGLO lets you swap moves on the fly for what you need. SpD Desolate Land Heatran switches in on your dragon moves? You can Earth Power. They switch in a physically frail special wall? Scale Shot not only nukes it, but also gives you a speed boost. And with that speed boost you hit a VERY good speed threshold of 388. And when you're 388 speed, almost no offensive mon barring fast scarfers can switch into you. Regidrago can also take a decent punch with its 200 base HP. Amazing mon? NO. But shockingly viable.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Grass Knot

Our secondary phys def answer, stealth rocker and pivot. I'm not in love with Lando-T in truth, I think it's fine as a regen pivot but not my favorite. It does offer great utility though, and also has Grass Knot to blast Great Tusk with.

Alomomola @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Flip Turn
- Body Slam
- Wish

It's wish pass Alo. Like, what do you want me to say? It does Alo things. Fluffy to be a disgusting physical wall, and Body Slam to discourage Woger from trying to be cheeky. Could go Mirror Coat for certain threats, it's really up to preference.



And that's the team! I think it has a few issues, definitely wants Knock Off support. But yeah! :)
 
Milotic @ Flame Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Body Slam/Ice Beam
- Haze/Dragon Tail
- Recover

This pokemon is kind of a sidegrade to Alomomola. The cool thing about marvel scale is that it is basically a free assault vest but for physical defense and with none of the drawbacks. Adding on magic guard prevents you from taking damage from the burn and also gives you way more oppurtunities to switch in. As a bonus, competitive allows you to benefit from Corviknight (aka the number 1 pokemon in the tier) defogging away your hazards making scald way stronger (though obviously not enough to sweep teams). I think scald and recover are pretty much locked in but the other 2 moves are where it gets interesting. I personally think body slam is a pretty good option for Wogerpon and desolate land mons similar to Alomomola but ice beam is also good for hitting dragons and then the final move is haze or dragon tail depending on how you want to deal with setup sweepers. I think this could be a good mon but tbf I haven't actually made a team with it yet so we shall see.
 
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POKEBILITIES AAA TIERING UPDATE

:keldeo:KELDEO HAS BEEN UNBANNED:keldeo:
While this horse has historically been turbo-banned from AAA because of its fantastic STAB moves, access to Tinted Lens, and intense wallbreaking power with Primordial Sea, Keldeo does not benefit from the mechanics or metagame of PokeAAA in the slightest. In fact, it's actively hampered by what goes on here. ​
Talpr0ne said:
Since this is now a permanent ladder I might as well make a serious case to unban Keldeo.

1) It doesn't have a usable native ability, so it relies entirely on its AAA ability to function. This alone is not a reason to unban it but it already shows that it is kinda overshadowed in its role by the likes of Greninja (both normal and Battle Bond).

2) :toxapex: :reuniclus: :slowking-galar: :hydrapple: It's pretty bad into alomst every native Regenerator, it needs to hit Specs Primordial Sea Hydro against most of them to make a dent, and then since it's choice locked they can just pivot out. It's also bad against several common AAA Regenerators like Primarina and Hatterene

3) :clodsire: :gastrodon: :ogerpon-wellspring: It's even worse against Water Absorb mons, native ones in particular already beat it pretty badly and then you can potentially slap Water Absorb on anything to make a workable Keldeo check out of thin air, like Water Absorb Great Tusk

4) Desolate Land also works similarly but it is less reliable against Primordial Sea specifically.

5) Keldeo is also really vulnerable to being revenge killed, both by faster mons (some of which like Latios, Desoland Iron Moth or Ogerpon-Wellspring can even afford to hard-switch in sometimes), and by priority like Grassy Glide and Gale Wings Brave Bird.

The main takeaway is that most teams prepare naturally for Keldeo by including basic stuff like a Regenerator core, a Water immunity, Grassy Glide or a Pokémon faster than 108 base.

Since Tinted Lens is now restricted Serperior could also be considered for a unban, but it is not such a clear cut case as Keldeo in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Talpr0ne made some excellent points, and the council concurs!

Speaking of the council, we'd like to welcome our two newest council members, Lavender Vice and sleepyfwog! Both of these users have been a lovely presence in the community and are some of our most active contributors.

Lastly, we're hosting another survey! The metagame has shifted a lot since the last survey and the ensuing Gliscor ban, and we'd love to see your opinions one more time!

tagging dhelmise for implementation thank you very much​
 
Miss Crisis said:
POKEBILITIES AAA TIERING UPDATE

:keldeo:KELDEO HAS BEEN UNBANNED:keldeo:
While this horse has historically been turbo-banned from AAA because of its fantastic STAB moves, access to Tinted Lens, and intense wallbreaking power with Primordial Sea, Keldeo does not benefit from the mechanics or metagame of PokeAAA in the slightest. In fact, it's actively hampered by what goes on here.

Talpr0ne made some excellent points, and the council concurs!

Speaking of the council, we'd like to welcome our two newest council members, Lavender Vice and sleepyfwog! Both of these users have been a lovely presence in the community and are some of our most active contributors.

Lastly, we're hosting another survey! The metagame has shifted a lot since the last survey and the ensuing Gliscor ban, and we'd love to see your opinions one more time!

tagging dhelmise for implementation thank you very much​
Click to expand...
The Big Rain Agenda™ continues to go as planned... ehehehe

Jokes aside, I'm super excited to see how Keldeo does, and giving Rain another special abuser with some speed behind it. Might see the rise of Brambleghast (immune to Fighting, resists Water AND immune to Icy Wind), Alo (who is already popular) and Sinistcha, or maybe it's a nothing burger. We'll see! :D
 
So I just found this format the other day and I'm having a lot of fun with it (always love creative formats), but I have some questions regarding the banlist. For example, when I tried to use Magic Guard, showdown told me it was banned, but it's not on the banned abilities list in the thread OP. Same with Reckless/Rock Head combo. I understand why these would be banned, but the list doesn't reflect that, which causes problems when team building, since I can't tell what is and is not allowed

EDIT: NEVER MIND

I had a brain fart! I didn't have the format selected, because i was using a different browser! Forget everything I just said please, or feel free to point and laugh, your choice.
 
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I want to bring some quick attention to a mon I normally see overlooked, but I've been meaning to test out - Vaporeon!

We all know Alomomola and what it does, tanky regen water that scalds, flip turns and wish passes, and it does it damn well, as well as being quite popular. However, it struggles a LOT from passivity and being... weak af, as well as not being too bulky on the special side without an AV.

So, why Vaporeon, and what does it bring to the table that Alo doesn't? Well, if we give it Regenerator (and using up our free Regenerator slot), we still get a bulky regen water with a high HP stat, Scald, Flip Turn AND Wish, but on top of that we get Water Absorb (which can be very handy, especially with Keldeo being free now), a VERY hearty SpD stat and solid SpA stat, the SAME speed as Alo so no worries about being a faster pivot, HAZE and Tickle, Calm Mind and actual coverage for mixups, copycat funnily enough, but the most important thing of all...

Roar. Roar changes the game COMPLETELY. If you have hazards on the field, now your opponent can no longer freely switch into their water absorb mon and neuter your Pokemon completely. You are a THREAT, and with a hazard stack team, that passive regenwater doesn't look so helpless anymore (nevermind the fact that Scald does just hit for pretty damn hard from Vaporeon's 110 SpA stat).

Now, mind you, you give up in return for these benefits 35 HP, any hope of being a physically defensive tank, and the biggest one- no free ability. No Intimidate, no Fluffy, no Volt Absorb or Sap Sipper- nothing. You do make up for this slightly with Water Absorb, but it's a heavy tradeoff. Regardless, I do think Vaporeon deserves to be explored more as a mon, as it has some big benefits over Alo (and counters it funnily enough) despite its shortcomings.

Vaporeon @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Flip Turn/Calm Mind
- Wish
- Roar/Tickle/Haze/Ice Beam
 
Moss/chaotic said:
Should we look into espathra for a minute since the majority of its best tools are completely gone?
Click to expand...
I personally believe it would still be broken, Dazzling gleam hits all of the relevant dark types for super effective damage so its coverage is fine. A set such as SubCM or RoostCM with Fluffy as the ability and heavy defensive investment would be my biggest worry to be a potential OP sweeper. With Fluffy and heavy physical defensive investment, potentially further boosted by a grassy seed that boosts Stored power and reduces Knock damage, it easily shrugs off physical hits. (Yes I accounted for Sharpness)
252 Atk Adaptability Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. +1 252 HP / 244+ Def Fluffy Espathra: 124-146 (31.4 - 37%) -- 77.4% chance to 3HKO
Substitute would allow it to block phazing attempts from dragon tail,avoid status and potentially fish for misses/paras, relegating Regenvest Goodra-Hisui as setup fodder while roost lets it use numerous defensive pokes as setup fodder. Additionally, phazing attempts could be thwarted by a last mon Espathra.

It'd get entry on many defensive staples, with pokemon like Corviknight and Mola being unable to threaten it, in addition to numerous regenvesters that fail to scratch it and are relegated to set up fodder. Opportunist, while being rare and very niche, could be devastating when used on Espathra. Clicking Iron defense with a Zamazenta could not only give Espathra free entry, but also double its defense making it nigh unkillable. It does admittedly suffer from its lackluster special bulk, but you would need to be wary to give it more than 2 CM boosts.

--------

I think at this current metagame state, unbanning more offensive threats is not a wise choice when defensive staples already struggle to keep with offensive threats, and I would rather look into banning offensive threats or maybe even freeing some defensive mons (unlikely).
 
For some with really problematic abilities, like magnet pull, is it not possible to allow the pokemon without that ability or make the ability not work? Or is it not possible with coding? Like do aloloan Golem and Magnezone really have to be banned because of one bs ability that we know was going to be banned when they can work with their multiple other abilities and be fun without magnet pull.

--me longingly staring at Golem-Alola with galvanize and sturdy :(
 
New team drop, my favorite team archetype stall! Been playing with this for a while and it's made me pretty comfortably sit around the mid-high 1500s (though RNG has been REALLY finnicky with me the last dozen games or so).

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Scald
- Wish
- Tickle

It's standard Mola. Stops the majority of physical attackers, and Tickle is actually pretty handy. Makes it so things like Woger aren't completely free to switch in.

Pecharunt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Recover
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic

Corrosion Pecha is just really good at forcing progress, Sludge Bomb over Parting Shot because the momentum isn't as important on stall and SBomb helps in certain matchups, and more PP than Ligma Chain.

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Well-Baked Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog

Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a metagame. A rubber metagame. A rubber metagame with Corvi. And Corvi makes me crazy. Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a metagame. A rubber metagame. A rubber metagame with Corvi. And Corvi makes me crazy. Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a metagame. A rubber metagame. A rubber metagame with Corvi. And Corvi makes me crazy.

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Synthesis
- Spikes
- Roar

Another physical check, makes things like Great Tusk, Lokix, Meow, etc. not able to freely spam their moves without being punished. Roar to compliment hazard stack and as a secondary check to setup threats.

Scream Tail @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Protect

This cursed ass Scream set has been putting in a LOT of work actually. Roar with hazards up does some good damage and deals with setup threats (and Scream is so weak most of your attacks aren't doing jack anyways). Rocks because we can't slot them in anywhere else. Mainly it does its job by just... PP stalling or Roaring out setup mons.

Reuniclus @ Assault Vest
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Future Sight
- Knock Off
- Psychic Noise
- Night Shade

Standard AV Reun, great for tanking and forcing progress with FS and Knock. Team seemed to really struggle with special threats and Reun helps with that a lot. Actually, Reun is just amazing lmfao, but please don't use it. It's bad, trust trust ;)


Jokes aside- this team has been putting in a LOT of work, but a word of caution... This team also seems to be a shitty RNG fucking MAGNET. Expect when playing to get parahax'd 6 times in a row MULTIPLE GAMES so No Guard Zapdos 1v6s your entire team. Expect to be hit in Confusion three times in a row so your Scream Tail fails to check their Torn-T. Expect to be crit 4 times back to back as you watch their Heracross some fucking how sweep this team. I do not know why this happens to THIS team specficially, I swear it's cursed, but regardless! It's a very effective team :) been nice to return to stall.



Also an aside, and let me get on my soap box for a second- it's ok to not like a team archetype. It's ok to not find it fun to face a team archetype. I certainly am not necessarily quiet about what teamstyle I despise facing. But what is NOT ok is to harass and shit talk people who play said archetype that you don't like. I understand that stall is the most hated teamstyle by far, and as a stall player/main I've developed a pretty tough skin. Despite that, however, I continue to be told some pretty damn nasty shit in-game and in PMs because simply of the type of fucking Pokemon I use. I don't 'hate fun' for playing stall, or have some personal vendetta against the playerbase because I enjoy slow-paced teams, I am not evil for using a regenerator core, and I especially don't fucking deserve to be threatened to have a fascist secret police force sent to my home (something that is an active threat to my life each and every day) because heavens forbid we went over 40 turns in a game.

What I'm saying is don't be an asshole. If you get wrecked by stall, frankly, use it as a learning oppurtunity to be better, make better teams and decisions in the game. These teams aren't unbreakable, hell this one certainly isn't. Use the inherent infinite creativity of the metagame to experiment! We're all just trying to play the game and have fun at the end of the day.
 
Lavender Vice said:
New team drop, my favorite team archetype stall! Been playing with this for a while and it's made me pretty comfortably sit around the mid-high 1500s (though RNG has been REALLY finnicky with me the last dozen games or so).

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Scald
- Wish
- Tickle

It's standard Mola. Stops the majority of physical attackers, and Tickle is actually pretty handy. Makes it so things like Woger aren't completely free to switch in.

Pecharunt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Recover
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic

Corrosion Pecha is just really good at forcing progress, Sludge Bomb over Parting Shot because the momentum isn't as important on stall and SBomb helps in certain matchups, and more PP than Ligma Chain.

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Well-Baked Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog

Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a metagame. A rubber metagame. A rubber metagame with Corvi. And Corvi makes me crazy. Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a metagame. A rubber metagame. A rubber metagame with Corvi. And Corvi makes me crazy. Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a metagame. A rubber metagame. A rubber metagame with Corvi. And Corvi makes me crazy.

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Synthesis
- Spikes
- Roar

Another physical check, makes things like Great Tusk, Lokix, Meow, etc. not able to freely spam their moves without being punished. Roar to compliment hazard stack and as a secondary check to setup threats.

Scream Tail @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Protect

This cursed ass Scream set has been putting in a LOT of work actually. Roar with hazards up does some good damage and deals with setup threats (and Scream is so weak most of your attacks aren't doing jack anyways). Rocks because we can't slot them in anywhere else. Mainly it does its job by just... PP stalling or Roaring out setup mons.

Reuniclus @ Assault Vest
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Future Sight
- Knock Off
- Psychic Noise
- Night Shade

Standard AV Reun, great for tanking and forcing progress with FS and Knock. Team seemed to really struggle with special threats and Reun helps with that a lot. Actually, Reun is just amazing lmfao, but please don't use it. It's bad, trust trust ;)


Jokes aside- this team has been putting in a LOT of work, but a word of caution... This team also seems to be a shitty RNG fucking MAGNET. Expect when playing to get parahax'd 6 times in a row MULTIPLE GAMES so No Guard Zapdos 1v6s your entire team. Expect to be hit in Confusion three times in a row so your Scream Tail fails to check their Torn-T. Expect to be crit 4 times back to back as you watch their Heracross some fucking how sweep this team. I do not know why this happens to THIS team specficially, I swear it's cursed, but regardless! It's a very effective team :) been nice to return to stall.



Also an aside, and let me get on my soap box for a second- it's ok to not like a team archetype. It's ok to not find it fun to face a team archetype. I certainly am not necessarily quiet about what teamstyle I despise facing. But what is NOT ok is to harass and shit talk people who play said archetype that you don't like. I understand that stall is the most hated teamstyle by far, and as a stall player/main I've developed a pretty tough skin. Despite that, however, I continue to be told some pretty damn nasty shit in-game and in PMs because simply of the type of fucking Pokemon I use. I don't 'hate fun' for playing stall, or have some personal vendetta against the playerbase because I enjoy slow-paced teams, I am not evil for using a regenerator core, and I especially don't fucking deserve to be threatened to have a fascist secret police force sent to my home (something that is an active threat to my life each and every day) because heavens forbid we went over 40 turns in a game.

What I'm saying is don't be an asshole. If you get wrecked by stall, frankly, use it as a learning oppurtunity to be better, make better teams and decisions in the game. These teams aren't unbreakable, hell this one certainly isn't. Use the inherent infinite creativity of the metagame to experiment! We're all just trying to play the game and have fun at the end of the day.
Click to expand...
Absolutely based and pop off queen

I’m learning more about competitive pokemon and have mostly seen stall pictured as the “super evil” due to how slow the games are. Hating on an archetype isn’t doing anything besides becoming a rage bait magnet and that’s no good.
 
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