SV UU Metagame Discussion

[BolTingBlazie]

I feel like all of these are insane

Hoopa-U’s SpA is just way too much, and it’s not like we got Clodsire, not that it would’ve helped.

Ursaluna was QB-worthy in OU, lol this ain’t staying.

Roaring Moon could actually stay, maybe? Tinkaton stocks and Tera Fairy Dirge might go up, but with Volt-turn being very prevelant in the metagame, it might not be broken?

Yeah I fully expect some quickbans coming for Hoopa-U and Ursaluna

Now I wish we got garchomp and clodsire instead

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Hopefully people in UU will try either Guts Trailblaze or Lefties BU to see the bear Power.

 

[MrE]

Ursaluna @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up/swords dance
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch

Joy, we just got Iron Hands back but a hands that can't be burned to neuter it.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Ursaluna @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up/swords dance
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch

Joy, we just got Iron Hands back but a hands that can't be burned to neuter it.

Yeah I fully expect Luna and hoopa-unbound to be banned within the next day. Luna is hands on crack, and need I say more about hoopa-unbound?

Only one I see potentially staying is moon and even then i'm not sure it would be healthy

 

[gulch]

hi! just popping in to say ursaluna needs to be banned like, immediately lol

i'll make a longer post later but please do not let Iron Hands 2 stay in this tier and ruin it

 

[Lily]

I think a key difference people are missing is that Iron Hands's whole thing is never dying and Ursaluna's whole thing is everything dying including itself.

We won't be voting on anything day 1 but depending on how things go we'll probably be looking into a vote tomorrow or Sunday. Please take some time to play w/ the mons before calling for bans!

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I think a key difference people are missing is that Iron Hands's whole thing is never dying and Ursaluna's whole thing is everything dying including itself.

We won't be voting on anything day 1 but depending on how things go we'll probably be looking into a vote tomorrow or Sunday. Please take some time to play w/ the mons before calling for bans!

Luna shouldn't even be considered for suspect test until some time passes tbh. People 9verrated the hell out of it in OU after home, then it fell off the face of Earth after Magearna got banned

Luna is very difficult fit in anything outside trick room, we should wait for several weeks to see if it's remotely broken

 

[SturdyShedinja]

So the new drops are... interesting

Roaring Moon

Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Crunch/Taunt/Subsitute

Set up a dragon dance and win. Nothing can really answer this thing, especially with 3 or 4 other setup mons in the back.

Wall of calcs

I'm not entirely sure if these ev spreads are standard, but their what the calc had as defaults.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Tinkaton: 498-588 (133.1 - 157.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Unaware Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 220-259 (53.5 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 315-372 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 246-290 (82.2 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 249-294 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Hippowdon: 271-321 (64.5 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 306-361 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Pretty much the entire tier gets 2HKOed after one turn of setup, and most of the mons that don't have to be at full to eat a hit can't exactly threaten it back, giving moon free turns to boost more or use taunt or sub to deny status attempts. Its great speed tier also makes it faster than all of the tiers relevant scarfers, so that only priority moves can revenge kill it. Granted, there are some options for pokemon to defensive tera and revenge it, but forcing the tera early is almost always a win for moon's offensive teammates. I think moon probably deserves a quickban, but it's probably the least broken of the three.

Hoopa

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Dark/Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Dark Pulse
- Trick
- Focus Blast

Specs seems pretty ridiculous on paper, with the few things that can take its STAB combination (muk, goodra, tink etc.) dropping to focus blast or hating trick.

More calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Goodra-Hisui: 286-338 (78.5 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 127-150 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Tinkaton: 179-211 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psyshock vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 288-340 (83.9 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 520-614 (160 - 188.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Hoopa's potential set diversity is also incredible, with band, av, and possibly even scarf having potential, especially when it can bait in a special wall and knock off its item for a teammate. Its special bulk is also deceptively good too despite it's less than stellar defensive typing. There's not a whole lot to say that hasn't been said by other people, it's middling speed tier and bad defensive typing hold it back a bit, but with how strong it is when it's teammates do bring it in, it seems pretty broken.

Ursaluna

This is a bit of a weird case. The guts sets that caused so much hype in OU when the home update dropped seem pretty mediocre. They're completely unwallable defensively, sure, but ursaluna is slow, has some common weaknesses, and is getting worn down by hazards and it's own flame orb, so it'd be pretty easy to outlast for most teams. However, the bulk up sets have a similarly excellent matchup into defensive teams while being significantly more threatening to more offensive setups.

Ursaluna @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts/Bulletproof
Tera Type: Water/Fairy/Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
-Thunder Punch/Ice Punch/Crunch etc.

The evs and fourth move could definitely be optimized, but the bear is extremely scary if it gets any room to setup. Bulletproof is a funny option for the ability to block focus blast, but guts to punish status attempts seems more consistent. The fourth move also has a lot of potential, as ursaluna's coverage options are so wide that it can pick and choose its matchups. Defensive tera and it's good natural bulk add up to a pokemon that just seems absurd to try and stop. I think sets like these are super broken, and imo the bear is the first one I'd want to see banned.

Overall, I don't think any of these drops are healthy additions, but I suppose only time will tell. Thank you for reading this far!

 

[ThatOneApple]

I dont think i want to deal with this mon, kinda just feels like it eats everything with acro eq dd taunt (none of these are stab yes but who needs it when you just kill everyone, + tera flying kills people). Might be wrong but i feel as though im gonne get murdered by this until it probably gets thrown out


Do not fall into the flame orb facade shit, it sounds like itd be stupid as fuck as we do not have a good resist for its stabs but it has the same issues it has in OU

The set you SHOULD be worried about is bulk up. Remember how i said how we do not have resists for the stabs? Yeah what if you made a set that is harder to be outoffensed while also having leftovers and not dying after coming in twice. Overall i think this will be fun for a little but might be dumb.


I will be experimenting with eject pack shenanigans for a little and then probably getting tired of this thing. Hyperspace fury probably two taps most resists and its coverage probably at least 2 shots whatever its stabs dont.


Anyways i do not think any of these will be ok lol. Luna maybe but this is gonna be hell for a bit.

Time to revise some opinions after 2 hours of playing lol


Ok so i severely underestimated this. Its bulk and firepower are absurd to the point where it can just... kill you.

I WILL say that i think i was right to call that bulk up is cracked, sd is overkill on both fat sets and flame orb sets, run bulk up so you can get the same kills while also getting fatter

Here's an idea of how id run it
Ursaluna @ Leftovers/Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam/Facade
- Headlong Rush
- Crunch/Drain Punch
- Bulk Up

The 8 speed is just so you dont have to deal with speed ties with , but yes thing is already crazy and if you throw up screens it just smacks people silly with little to no effort. Kinda think its broken as hell lol.


I still stand by the fact that this thing is a stupid sweeper. it outspeeds all scarfers at +1 even with adamant (other than and , but those dont threaten it at all) and just claps everything.The only time I'd even bother with jolly is for the moon mirror

Heres the set i run
Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt

The only real way to beat this is to sack one or two things to put it in range of first impression or bullet punch. So uh yeah still dont like this thing.


Tbh ive barely even seen this thing, probably because people are more focused on the other two, so id have to wait on this guy

 

[Tree69420]

I feel like all of these are insane

Hoopa-U’s SpA is just way too much, and it’s not like we got Clodsire, not that it would’ve helped.

Ursaluna was QB-worthy in OU, lol this ain’t staying.

Roaring Moon could actually stay, maybe? Tinkaton stocks and Tera Fairy Dirge might go up, but with Volt-turn being very prevelant in the metagame, it might not be broken?

252+ Atk Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 208-246 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[DiscoDucky]

Torkoal moved from RU to OU

Hoopa-Unbound moved from OU to UU
Roaring Moon moved from OU to UU
Ursaluna moved from OU to UU

---

Three extremely potent new breakers and a loss of Torkoal which for the most part wasn't relevant. How are we feeling about these drops?

OU has gifted you three Pokemon that dunks on Skeledirge. Cherish it.

 

[sleestacks]

>ursaluna
>hoopa-u

Trick room is good again. Like seriously. We already had ok setters (klefki, slowking) but these new mons give us some nice breakers for TR. You can even set AND attack with Hoopa-U, its great.

 

[Moyashi]

Luna shouldn't even be considered for suspect test until some time passes tbh. People 9verrated the hell out of it in OU after home, then it fell off the face of Earth after Magearna got banned

Luna is very difficult fit in anything outside trick room, we should wait for several weeks to see if it's remotely broken

Today on lolworthy posts: this comment here.

The difference between OU and UU is OU has a much faster metagame with many Pokemon that threaten the bear, meaning it gets few opportunities to directly come into battle. It's still viable there, just difficult to fit

UU has a substantially lower power level and many Pokemon that it can come in on to threaten a KO, plus bulk up lefties sets just wreck things. It's not nearly as difficult to fit as it was in OU, from bulky offensive to trick room to screens teams (which btw are funny when you can't kill it before it kills multiple of the opposite team). Never mind stuff you can do to enable it like healing wish.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Today on lolworthy posts: this comment here.

The difference between OU and UU is OU has a much faster metagame with many Pokemon that threaten the bear, meaning it gets few opportunities to directly come into battle. It's still viable there, just difficult to fit

UU has a substantially lower power level and many Pokemon that it can come in on to threaten a KO, plus bulk up lefties sets just wreck things. It's not nearly as difficult to fit as it was in OU, from bulky offensive to trick room to screens teams (which btw are funny when you can't kill it before it kills multiple of the opposite team). Never mind stuff you can do to enable it like healing wish.

I didn't say it was bad. I said it shouldn't be considered for quickban since it faces the same issues as it does in OU, aside from difference in power level.

 

[Pabloaram]

Dear Uu players: why they use Tytar again this last month? Please give back to RU

 

[skippergamez]

Dear Uu players: why they use Tytar again this last month? Please give back to RU

No Meow + casuals not being able to fathom their beloved TTar being RU

 

[Pabloaram]

No Meow + casuals not being able to fathom their beloved TTar being RU

Tytar being gen 9 Ambipoom is funny imo

 

[Goro Yagami]

I rarely post here, but I'll give it a shot:

Ursaluna
- If you hop on ladder right now, there is a good chance you will run into some form of screens HO. This isn't a coincidence, as Ursaluna behind screens is a bulky steamroller. Bulk Up adds to its already insane physical bulk, and can normally force opponents to trade 2 for 1 with it, opening up opportunities for the rest of your team. (Plus you can't impair it with status thanks to Guts). With Crunch, ghosts also aren't safe, although there has been some experimentation with Drifblim as far as I know.

Roaring Moon
- I have only used this mon a couple of times, but I can see why people are talking about it. Booster Energy Tera Flying Moon with Acrobatics is a really spammable move, and by adding on Earthquake, you have pretty solid coverage for the whole metagame. It is naturally fast, and after a D-Dance no relevant mon can outspeed with scarf ,while only a few mons can take the hits that Roaring Moon dishes out. Add on Taunt to prevent the random Skeledirge from burning you, and you have an ideal offensive sweeper

Hoopa-Unbound
- Spams powerful moves
- Have not seen it much/had much trouble with it


Overall, I feel Ursaluna and Roaring Moon together are potential candidates right now. Ursaluna poses some of the same issues that Iron Hands did (bulky mon that required a lot to deal with), while Roaring Moon can get out of hand very quickly if given a free turn to set up or supported by screens. Hoopa-Unbound is the less popular of the three, so its probably best to wait and see how that mon does after the two aforementioned mons are out of the format

PS: Priority can help with Roaring Moon a bit, although I don't think it's enough to stop it from being consistent all the time (except if the prio user is Lokix).

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Ok This is my list of things that are most broken to least broken

1) - This is the most broken by far, having a lot of set variety and just being able to nuke everything with CB, specs, use smth like sub to take advantage of switches is nuts. It has ok speed meaning it doesnt get outran by defensive pokemon and solid sp. def bulk allowing it to tank hits from special attackers and even super effective attacks

2) - Booster energy, CB, and bulkier DD varients are ones that i picture are gonna be the best, after a booster energy boost the only things that can beat it are CB scizor (hope no tera steel/fire/water to beat CB BP), Tera fairy or water skeledirge (prob the one hard counter but it needs tera late game), mach punch breloom (gets owned by tera), quagsire (loses to taunt or CB)

So yeah the checks are shaky even then... and roaring moon can setup easily with 105/71/101 bulk esp since it can usually get one off by forcing smth out

3) - Weakest out of the 3 and if you ban trick room setter hoopa-u then it has a ok shot at staying. It has bulk, power, and it has a ok typing so what is the catch? donphan, iron treads, and cyclizar is getting overwhelmed spinning and that means ur running often times 2 ground types which also which worsen ur MU into loom, quav, basculegion, gyara, etc.

"just switch it in" ok list me a mon that is good that it can switch in on, get a kill, and do smth else? even if it gets a switch in vs smth like gastro. alr cool, u do get to click a button and do a chunk of damage or you can eat a tera ghost surf/ ice beam which is pretty painful, tinkaton gigaton hammer is gonna hurt a decent amount

0 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Gigaton Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna: 130-154 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

Oooh that is alr like 40% chip dont forget the next time ur coming in ur gonna be below 50% and everyone who has played OU knows how hard it is to get value out of a mon with no priority, an ok typing, and being slow asf.

Bulk up is prob the set to go and I will test it out, flame orb is overated asf and a noob trap at the moment

 

[Tree69420]

3) - Weakest out of the 3 and if you ban trick room setter hoopa-u then it has a ok shot at staying. It has bulk, power, and it has a ok typing so what is the catch? donphan, iron treads, and cyclizar is getting overwhelmed spinning and that means ur running often times 2 ground types which also which worsen ur MU into loom, quav, basculegion, gyara, etc.

"just switch it in" ok list me a mon that is good that it can switch in on, get a kill, and do smth else? even if it gets a switch in vs smth like gastro. alr cool, u do get to click a button and do a chunk of damage or you can eat a tera ghost surf/ ice beam which is pretty painful, tinkaton gigaton hammer is gonna hurt a decent amount

0 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Gigaton Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna: 130-154 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

Oooh that is alr like 40% chip dont forget the next time ur coming in ur gonna be below 50% and everyone who has played OU knows how hard it is to get value out of a mon with no priority, an ok typing, and being slow asf.

Bulk up is prob the set to go and I will test it out, flame orb is overated asf and a noob trap at the moment

It's also a trade bot that can basically come in after a kill or slow pivot and go 1 for 1 with literally anything

 

[Moyashi]

donphan, iron treads, and cyclizar is getting overwhelmed spinning

No. No they aren't. We have more than enough excellent removal and because they're all easy to fit, it's not hard to keep hazards off if you're halfway decent at the game. But more than that, it's not hard to position this thing as people have found already. Defensively it has very little counterplay, as it actively makes passive mons like Gastro, Tinka, Quag, and more, much worse because they let it come in. You say "oh gigaton lol" but it's so easy to bait the move out and then oops, bear has a free switch! Never mind bulk up sets which can easily claim 2 kills if played remotely well, and behind screens it can sometimes get more.

The overall power over of UU is way lower than OU. And I'll repeat, it's just going to wind up being a toxic presence by virtue of what it does to defense. Nevermind its reading capabilities. I also question you calling hoopa the most broken, when it's the least common of the three drops by far.

I didn't say it was bad. I said it shouldn't be considered for quickban since it faces the same issues as it does in OU, aside from difference in power level.

A difference in power level that is significantly noticable. It is much, much easier to position and get going comparable to OU and when it's out, your opponent doesn't have many favorable decisions to make. It's often forcing trades, and screens makes this worse.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

No. No they aren't. We have more than enough excellent removal and because they're all easy to fit, it's not hard to keep hazards off if you're halfway decent at the game. But more than that, it's not hard to position this thing as people have found already. Defensively it has very little counterplay, as it actively makes passive mons like Gastro, Tinka, Quag, and more, much worse because they let it come in. You say "oh gigaton lol" but it's so easy to bait the move out and then oops, bear has a free switch! Never mind bulk up sets which can easily claim 2 kills if played remotely well, and behind screens it can sometimes get more.

The removal is better than OU but its not like "oh we can remove these spikes u set down" becuase all of the spike setters beat donphan and iron treads and make it very painful to setup and cyclizar is getting less common it feels like

Gastrodon can click ice beam or surf and punish it for thinking it has a free switch, tinkaton can gigaton hammer it and you have to alr come in to not want to take a knock off, quag sure... but its spike setting abilities make it very annoying for ursaluna to even get more than 1 because its just slow, not as bulky with flame orb, and has no way to threaten offense at low hp

"ou say "oh gigaton lol" but it's so easy to bait the move out and then oops, bear has a free switch! Never mind bulk up sets which can easily claim 2 kills if played remotely well, and behind screens it can sometimes get more."

Gl baiting it out... also you have to not eat a knock off which really cuts into your power. Sure bulk up sets but im talking about guts facade and idk bulk up sets enough to judge it on day 1

The overall power over of UU is way lower than OU. And I'll repeat, it's just going to wind up being a toxic presence by virtue of what it does to defense. Nevermind its reading capabilities. I also question you calling hoopa the most broken, when it's the least common of the three drops by far.

Just cuz smth is good into defense doesnt make it unhealthy and ban worthy... I mean it has to be broken and uncompetitive to be wanted to be given the boot esp the quick ban.

Ladder is known for being questionable at times and its prob spamming their favorite mons... like gyarados is a top tier but they decided to spam smth like haxorus as well which isnt as good. Hoopa-u just has no counterplay, is much faster, has variety since you might now know what its going to do and is just nuts all around

 

[Moyashi]

Gastrodon can click ice beam or surf and punish it for thinking it has a free switch, tinkaton can gigaton hammer it and you have to alr come in to not want to take a knock off, quag sure... but its spike setting abilities make it very annoying for ursaluna to even get more than 1 because its just slow, not as bulky with flame orb, and has no way to threaten offense at low hp

Gastro forced to recover (easy to do btw) is instant free switch. Or baiting it in and uturning on it. More than that, you just ignored where i explicitly say "it's so easy to bait the move out" and it is. Knock off means nothing once the orb is active, and tinka can't even tough bulk up sets, especially behind screens.

The removal is better than OU but its not like "oh we can remove these spikes u set down" becuase all of the spike setters beat donphan and iron treads and make it very painful to setup and cyclizar is getting less common it feels like

If this were true, they wouldn't be nearly as good as they are and treads especially wouldn't be getting nommed constantly to rise. Nevermind it doing very well at high level. Also Maushold exists. You're making it out to be a much much bigger issue than it is.

Just cuz smth is good into defense doesnt make it unhealthy and ban worthy... I mean it has to be broken and uncompetitive to be wanted to be given the boot esp the quick ban.

Stupid into defense, trades well with offense and thus will not be deadweight. But more than that, its presence greatly inflates screens teams viability and could make them overbearing.

Ladder is known for being questionable at times and its prob spamming their favorite mons... like gyarados is a top tier but they decided to spam smth like haxorus as well which isnt as good. Hoopa-u just has no counterplay, is much faster, has variety since you might now know what its going to do and is just nuts all around

Hoopa has more counterplay than Luna lmao. Extraordinarily physically frail, extremely vulnerable to uturn and priority...

 

[JHoxha]

i havent been paying attention to ou why did moon and luna drop

 

[Tree69420]

i havent been paying attention to ou why did moon and luna drop

sun has largely shifted toward vert's sun team which doesnt feature moon, and its not a great DDer when bax is at the top of the meta
corvi and air balloon ghold take on ursaluna really well and tr has been gone since magearna got banned so it is also not eating