SV UU Metagame Discussion

[JHoxha]

sun has largely shifted toward vert's sun team which doesnt feature moon, and its not a great DDer when bax is at the top of the meta
corvi and air balloon ghold take on ursaluna really well and tr has been gone since magearna got banned so it is also not eating

interesting, i would've thought moon could have a niche on sun teams with CB and protosynthesis or something but from what i'm hearing baxcalibur is just a better dragon nuke in general
and i knew luna was on a bit of a decline but i didnt think it was faring that poorly

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Gastro forced to recover (easy to do btw) is instant free switch. Or baiting it in and uturning on it. More than that, you just ignored where i explicitly say "it's so easy to bait the move out" and it is. Knock off means nothing once the orb is active, and tinka can't even tough bulk up sets, especially behind screens.



If this were true, they wouldn't be nearly as good as they are and treads especially wouldn't be getting nommed constantly to rise. Nevermind it doing very well at high level. Also Maushold exists. You're making it out to be a much much bigger issue than it is.



Stupid into defense, trades well with offense and thus will not be deadweight. But more than that, its presence greatly inflates screens teams viability and could make them overbearing.



Hoopa has more counterplay than Luna lmao. Extraordinarily physically frail, extremely vulnerable to uturn and priority...

1) Ok sure... im not saying its not broken lol, idk what makes u think im not saying its not broken but its prob the most likely to stay out o fthe 3

2) switching in on hazards, taking 6.25% from burn, taking more from knock off, and then potentially getting hit with a gigaton hammer (also encore exists if you decide no way tinka stays in)

3) they are good for that purpose.. because they can remove hazards, even tho great tusk is an S tier pokemon in OU it doesnt mean it has its struggles removing hazards... if you want to play hazard game ur hazard setter is beating donphan or ur team has ample ways to make sure that doesnt happen. Ofc it still can get spins off but it usually has limited recovery and struggles to spin without taking a lot of chip

4) Luna is slow, chips itself, has no priority, and cant switch in on much... i will say luna is much easier to check than hoopa-u which is faster, bulky on the special side, can run many sets that have different awnsers

 

[Hyjack]

My experience this gen is jumping back after a year or so away -> played OU -> didn't care for it -> played UU -> liked Chesnaught's viability -> so this is my tier now. And Ceruledge is just badass. There was an old core of Chesnaught+Bronzong+Chandelure and I've been trying to build teams based on that, replacing Flash Fire Chandelure with Flash Fire Ceruldge. I've had mixed success, but overall having fun. The one's I've found most dump on my nostalgic fun were Skeledirge / H-Arcanine / Volcanion. H-Arc always forced my hand and things became a 50/50 guessing game, BAD END being Chesnaught on Flare Blitz or Ceruledge on Head Smash, GOOD END being vice versa. Volcanion is just a menace, and often forces similar 50/50s. Dirge is the bane of my existence because of Unaware. A partner that takes all 3 of these on somewhat well is Aqua-Tauros. This mostly handles H-Arcanine which was the most problematic offensive threat to the teams I was making. I'm fortunate to have gotten in when I did, because August apparently had a torrent of new drops and soon after its september and theres even more upheaval.

New Drops
I can only speak to playing AGAINST these mons rather than WITH, and this isn't going to be as highly detailed as it leads into being. I don't find much problem with the current drops, though I acknowledge they all have potential to change the current meta, and a few have problematic potential. I've played only a couple games, but in those couple games I have matched up well, and had a naturally good strategy against the new drops. Ursaluna is definitely a problem on paper, but people keep building around it too much and I've been able to outspeed and kill it. Someone earlier mentioned its a good mon to go 1v1 with anything, and it does pose a problem the moment it enters the field, but its a problem that has many natural solutions. I say this to defeat the potential argument of it warping team-building. One way people "overbuild" Ursaluna is going screens with Klefki. My team isn't great, but I think that team is very bad. I mostly do well because Aqua-Tauros has Raging Bull, so it serves multiple purposes as a screen destroyer and fire-fighter.
My opinion is Ursaluna has problematic potential, but deserves time in the metagame. If anything, offense gets better, and defensive cores get shaken up in this time

Roaring Moon is very scary on paper, 139 attack and 119 speed used to be unheard of. Give it DD and a perfect ability+item to abuse Acrobatics, and it should be a wrap. However I've also matched up against this very well thanks to my team composition leaning heavily towards priority moves, and being able to threaten large chunks of damage with the mon that remains in. People have been running Tera Flying, understandably to power-up Acrobatics, but that leaves it weak to Accelerock and Ice Shard. The chunk of health needed to put it in range of these priority moves is not difficult to inflict. This thing isn't mence and doesnt intimidate for a safer DD, and Dark/Dragon has betrayed it against me, forcing it to Tera in the face of my strong neutral or supereffective moves. Its very much a one-turn hailmary in my experience, because the booster energy is lost upon switch-out. It CAN function without the booster energy, but it becomes more manageable after a failed sweep attempt. Don't get me wrong this thing is a threat and deserves attention on team-preview, but its current state is not problematic enough to warrant immediate action. As the meta develops, someone will probably crack it. Though I hope the meta is able to develop with it.

Hoopa-U I have the least experience with, and I think it is getting out-shined by Luna and Moon. UU Showdown chat has been bringing up how scary trick room seems, and yeah, on paper this thing is terrifying under trick room. What that means to me is, this is a powerful pokemon that brings a new strategy to the tier that did not previously exist in any viable way. Hoopa-U can punch holes in anything and cover what doesn't crack under its STAB pressure, but defensively this thing folds to most things that outspeed it. From my short experience, this is a Hazard meta, and a mon that must be switched out or die, doesn't seem to offer much. I feel including Hoopa-U in your team limits the Builder more than the Opponent, and this too doesn't require immediate action. In fact it adds another dimension and may increase viability of lesser-used options.

The preface before the new drops is to indicate my experience with Gen 9 is not a lot, rather its more recent. I'm making face-value comments as someone getting back into the game, and I am very biased towards change. It was sad to see how much was banned from OU this gen, while I'm sure the bans were warranted, I lean towards inclusion to incite innovation, rather than exclusion towards a familiar standard. Here are some replays that showcase good performance towards initial builds of these pokemon:

Ursa Moon Hoopa Screens

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1934994430
This showcases Aqua-Tauros breaking screens and using Thief to prevent Guts on Ursaluna. Again, Taurus was meant to counter Harcanine and Dirge, and check Volcanion. Thief was to steal Dirge's item after a Wisp got cured with Lum. I was able to use that same mon to put down Ursaluna screens.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1935002136
This has nothing to do with new drops just another showcase of Thief Aqua-Tauros being surprisingly effective

Ursa Moon Screens

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1934999002
This is a repeat of how the team handles screens+new drops. Tauros is again pretty effective against Klefki and Thief gains usefulness once again vs Mimikyu.

This can be summed up as: New mons are manageable, council please don't take rash action and let us cook with and against them first. Also I won 3 games with Aqua-Tauros and my ego is inflated enough to inspire this post.

 

[Swagodile]

Feel like people are overlooking Bulletproof Ursaluna

Yeah, a Guts Wallbreaker set is more threatening, but Bulletproof is also an option

 

[Stranger Meursault]

Ok so i severely underestimated this. Its bulk and firepower are absurd to the point where it can just... kill you.

I WILL say that i think i was right to call that bulk up is cracked, sd is overkill on both fat sets and flame orb sets, run bulk up so you can get the same kills while also getting fatter

Here's an idea of how id run it
Ursaluna @ Leftovers/Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam/Facade
- Headlong Rush
- Crunch/Drain Punch
- Bulk Up

Feels like I'm running into some variant of this every other game. Bulk Up + Body Slam + Drain Punch is really tough to deal with in UU. Leftovers might be even better than flame orb. An absolute monster behind screens (everywhere right now).

I think the Iron Hands comparison is apt (given the similar bulk/attack/speed). Both struggle to find any niche in OU, but are overwhelming in this tier. In OU, it can be difficult to find turns to set these mons up, relegating them to trick room teams (which aren't good). Not the case in UU. I don't know that this needs to be immediately quick-banned, but I'm not sure I see the arguement for it being healthy.

I'm not sure the other two drops are much better.

Roaring Moon is probably banworthy. Too strong, too fast, basically. At one point this was a top tier OU threat (shed tail meta), but it has fallen on hard times post-Home. It will likely be a monster in UU. I've used it and seen it on almost every team (often with screens).

In OU, Moon has some amount of 4MSS, but it has an easier time here. For example, in OU, if Roaring Moon doesn't run Crunch or a dragon move, it gets walled by Zapdos, Corviknight, and Rotom-W. In UU, Earthquake + Acrobatics hits the entire tier for neutral or super effective damage, with the exception of Thundurus-T/Thundurus (which doesn't even beat Roaring Moon without focus blast) and Rotom-H (which doesn't exist). This lets it fit taunt on a DD set, which allows it to beat Skeledirge.

Max speed + booster energy allows Moon to outspeed every scarfer in the tier, every other booster energy user, and every other +1 speed set up mon. With booster energy, Roaring Moon is the fastest pokemon in the tier while having a base 139 attack stat. If Moon is adamant with booster energy, and gets an attack boost, it has the highest attack stat in the tier while still maintaining a great speed tier.

Moon can be worn down and then beaten with priority (Breloom Mach, Arcanine Espeed, Scizor BP, etc.), but like Ursaluna, it often takes multiple mons down with it. It isn't unbeatable, but it trades really well at a low oppertunity cost. It is not hard to bring Moon in and do damage.

I haven't seen much Hoopa yet. Just looking at the stats, I suspect that it will hit too hard for this tier, but I haven't seen it in action enough to form a strong opinion.

 

[Moyashi]

People have been running Tera Flying, understandably to power-up Acrobatics, but that leaves it weak to Accelerock and Ice Shard.

This is true, but Lycanrock dusk is a very fringe Pokemon in the tier, while the only ice shard user is donphan. Granted, donphan has great physical bulk, but unstab 40bp is not reliable vs moon. Itd need to be very significantly chipped.

One way people "overbuild" Ursaluna is going screens with Klefki. My team isn't great, but I think that team is very bad. I mostly do well because Aqua-Tauros has Raging Bull, so it serves multiple purposes as a screen destroyer and fire-fighter.

Aqua Tauros can help vs these teams, but it also isn't super splashable and potentially can still lose to them anyways with tera usage.

I lean towards inclusion to incite innovation, rather than exclusion towards a familiar standard.

I also think we should give it a few days, but it's important to remember that adapting to some potentially overbearing Pokemon while possible, just leads to restricted building.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Played dual screens Ursaluna and got dumpstered by it, its absolutely bonkers behind screens if you didn't already think it was busted before with those bulk up sets

The mon truly is iron hands on crack, hits even harder and is even more obnoxious to switch into.

Ursaluna for sure is getting quickbanned. (Probably hoopa after, as I'm very skeptical about it being remotely healthy)

Moon is the only one i'm unsure about as while it can dragon dance and abuse booster energy unlike the other two it has counters other than trying to out-offense it unlike the other two. It might not be healthy but it definitely seems like the one that could end up settling in the tier at least for a little bit. I do think its 4mss is harder for it to deal with unlike the other two mons as if you don't run EQ you get hard stopped by tinkaton. It wants more moves than it could have on a dragon dance set feasibly. Still think it should not stay though and I hope its quickbanned

 

[gulch]

Alright! Here's the longer post I promised.


Letting this stay would be a grievous error in judgement. While, yes, you can argue that there's a difference between it and Hands in that Ursaluna is easier to kill, the fundamental problem of it still forcing comically insane trades is very much present and it's ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst to ignore it. Ursaluna is still bulky in its own right, is not hindered by status, hits like a freight train, and has nothing in the tier that can switch in on both of its STABs. While I do agree that Normal/Ground as a defensive typing is awkward, I find that between Ursaluna's natural bulk, alongside boosts from methods such as Bulk Up or Screens support, make this much less pressing than you would be led to believe. With the presence of numerous strong pivots in the tier, like Slowking, Scizor, Thundurus-T, Zapdos-G, Tornadus-T, etc., getting Ursaluna positioned to start picking up kills isn't some sort of insurmountable task either. It is very reasonable to expect Ursaluna to force the opponent to throw at least one, but very likely two or more, mons into it to stop it from running away with the game, at which point playing a long game against any other threats that may be present becomes difficult or outright impossible. It can also simply ignore this route and choose to be a powerful setup threat itself. I am firmly of the belief that Ursaluna is not a healthy presence in the UU meta.


I don't think I've seen anyone support this staying, which is good, because this is also undeniably busted. Nothing unboosted outspeeds it at base aside from Tornadus-T, Cyclizar, and Talonflame, and then after a DD or Booster Energy boost... good luck lol. Outspeeds everything, kills everything, has respectable bulk, just generally not okay.

I'll be making a separate post to talk about Hoopa since I have more complex feelings about that and think it could be reasonably okay? If nothing else, at least better than the other two, although that isn't saying a lot.

 

[Tree69420]

Alright! Here's the longer post I promised.


Letting this stay would be a grievous error in judgement. While, yes, you can argue that there's a difference between it and Hands in that Ursaluna is easier to kill, the fundamental problem of it still forcing comically insane trades is very much present and it's ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst to ignore it. Ursaluna is still bulky in its own right, is not hindered by status, hits like a freight train, and has nothing in the tier that can switch in on both of its STABs. While I do agree that Normal/Ground as a defensive typing is awkward, I find that between Ursaluna's natural bulk, alongside boosts from methods such as Bulk Up or Screens support, make this much less pressing than you would be led to believe. With the presence of numerous strong pivots in the tier, like Slowking, Scizor, Thundurus-T, Zapdos-G, Tornadus-T, etc., getting Ursaluna positioned to start picking up kills isn't some sort of insurmountable task either. It is very reasonable to expect Ursaluna to force the opponent to throw at least one, but very likely two or more, mons into it to stop it from running away with the game, at which point playing a long game against any other threats that may be present becomes difficult or outright impossible. It can also simply ignore this route and choose to be a powerful setup threat itself. I am firmly of the belief that Ursaluna is not a healthy presence in the UU meta.


I don't think I've seen anyone support this staying, which is good, because this is also undeniably busted. Nothing unboosted outspeeds it at base aside from Tornadus-T, Cyclizar, and Talonflame, and then after a DD or Booster Energy boost... good luck lol. Outspeeds everything, kills everything, has respectable bulk, just generally not okay.

I'll be making a separate post to talk about Hoopa since I have more complex feelings about that and think it could be reasonably okay? If nothing else, at least better than the other two, although that isn't saying a lot.

I think Adamant might be better because pawmot treads and maushold are the only physical attackers faster than that, while it nukes TF out of defensive "answers", and attacks from thundy i gengar and zoroark are kinda just bouncing off that massive spd stat

for reference 252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roaring Moon: 145-172 (41.3 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Negative Charge]

Feel like people are overlooking Bulletproof Ursaluna

Yeah, a Guts Wallbreaker set is more threatening, but Bulletproof is also an option

There is absolutely no reason to run bulletproof IMO. You're immune to shadow ball and resist sludge bomb and don't even fear the poison chance. Literally all you gain is a focus blast immunity, but the most likely thing to click it is Thundy but Grass Knot hits you for the same damage with no miss chance... the rest of the bulletproof immunities are competitively irrelevant in UU (I think I saw Acid Spray Hoodra once...). I suppose you now 100% wall Gengar because you're immune to Energy Ball too but that's about it. Imo if you want a bulkier set with longevity just use guts with leftovers.

 

[Goro Yagami]

There is absolutely no reason to run bulletproof IMO. You're immune to shadow ball and resist sludge bomb and don't even fear the poison chance. Literally all you gain is a focus blast immunity, but the most likely thing to click it is Thundy but Grass Knot hits you for the same damage with no miss chance... the rest of the bulletproof immunities are competitively irrelevant in UU (I think I saw Acid Spray Hoodra once...). I suppose you now 100% wall Gengar because you're immune to Energy Ball too but that's about it. Imo if you want a bulkier set with longevity just use guts with leftovers.

Although I do prefer Guts over Bulletproof, I do see it having some use. Users would already be weary of statusing Ursaluna in the first place due to the fear of Guts + mons like Tornadus-T who normally run Focus Blast can get crippled by clicking it freely (also some Luna who run Tera Ghost might appreciate being immune to Shadow Ball from mons like Bascu-F and Zoro-H)

 

[RudeLiees]

Alright! Here's the longer post I promised.


Letting this stay would be a grievous error in judgement. While, yes, you can argue that there's a difference between it and Hands in that Ursaluna is easier to kill, the fundamental problem of it still forcing comically insane trades is very much present and it's ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst to ignore it. Ursaluna is still bulky in its own right, is not hindered by status, hits like a freight train, and has nothing in the tier that can switch in on both of its STABs. While I do agree that Normal/Ground as a defensive typing is awkward, I find that between Ursaluna's natural bulk, alongside boosts from methods such as Bulk Up or Screens support, make this much less pressing than you would be led to believe. With the presence of numerous strong pivots in the tier, like Slowking, Scizor, Thundurus-T, Zapdos-G, Tornadus-T, etc., getting Ursaluna positioned to start picking up kills isn't some sort of insurmountable task either. It is very reasonable to expect Ursaluna to force the opponent to throw at least one, but very likely two or more, mons into it to stop it from running away with the game, at which point playing a long game against any other threats that may be present becomes difficult or outright impossible. It can also simply ignore this route and choose to be a powerful setup threat itself. I am firmly of the belief that Ursaluna is not a healthy presence in the UU meta.


I don't think I've seen anyone support this staying, which is good, because this is also undeniably busted. Nothing unboosted outspeeds it at base aside from Tornadus-T, Cyclizar, and Talonflame, and then after a DD or Booster Energy boost... good luck lol. Outspeeds everything, kills everything, has respectable bulk, just generally not okay.

I'll be making a separate post to talk about Hoopa since I have more complex feelings about that and think it could be reasonably okay? If nothing else, at least better than the other two, although that isn't saying a lot.

Roaring moon is simply broken, eq,crunch ddance and outrage make him nearly unbeatable.
I think ursalana isn’t broken, I beat him with a lot of Mon, and trick room isn’t viable

and for hoopa… lokix is here.

 

[Estarossa]

Wanted to give a quick appreciation post to Lokix in post shifts atm. Lokix had definitely been seeing a rise already in UUWC and stuff as a great revenge killing option with the Boots First Impression + Sucker Punch sets with the double priority + pivoting + tinted lens combination, and lack of passivity from choice locking etc compared to scarfers, while Boots covers up a lot of the longevity issues since it can stick around for ages and constantly be a horrbly good threat.

Atm I'm finding it just a fantastic option on ladder with all the post shifts stuff, there's a lot of various fast HO threats going around atm and having a +2 tinted lens priority move on top of all of this is just amazing for the likes of Roaring Moon, Gyarados, Tornadus, Thundurus etc, and it really just doesn't care too much about whatever stuff like Roaring Moon tries to tera to either which is an absolute godsend. Even against resisted stuff if it teras it still gets calcs like below thanks to tinted lens:

252 Atk Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 200-236 (66.8 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 204-240 (61.6 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Roaring Moon: 220-260 (62.6 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 224-264 (74.9 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It getssome of those fantastic calcs above against resisted stuff still if it Tera Bugs but honestly theres not a huge need all the time either unless you know the tera is still available or you don't need tera elsewhere etc, but its honestly a great tera'ing option too and there's a lot of protection angle against various opposing teras with this too.

Honestly its just a great choice for laddering right now, it covers you against so many options as a revenge killer + pivot and goes beautifully in some pivoting cores with the likes of scizor and torn-t.

 

[Twilight]

Quick thoughts on the drops:


It's a little too much for this tier to handle. DD Moon is impossible to revenge kill offensively outside of priority due to the lack of a good Choice Scarf user capable of beating its insane Speed tier. On top of this it is quite difficult to handle defensively because DD sets alone are extremely flexible from the tera to coverage options E.g. EQ, Taunt, Acrobatics, Dragon STAB, etc.

CB also feels great with its breaking power and revenge killing capabilities. It has access to U-turn so even if you do have a decent defensive pivot it just generates momentum. I ran into Scarf once or twice which caught me off guard but it also pulled that off decently. Personally, it is too flexible and the DD sets in particular are too constraining on the builder to deal with. If anything is quick ban worthy it is Moon.

Guts Breaker

Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Facade
- Fire Punch
- Taunt

This is the set I mostly tried out and it is definitely a powerful wallbreaker. Defensively there isn't really much that wants to pivot into this so you usually have to make a prediction or tera Ghost. While it does lack the reliable defensive counterplay, it being so slow does make it difficult to keep to just dismantle most teams. The burn + hazards + any trade results in it getting worn down into range very quickly. The best thing it has going for it is how you can basically send this thing into most stuff (with a free switch) to force a trade, likely resulting in a KO for you.

I agree with others that Bulk Up sets might be more reliable but I have yet to explore with this yet. Would like to keep it around in the tier and at worst give it a suspect.


I kind of assumed Hoopa would be giga-broken but I'm not too sure. The scariest thing about Hoopa-U is figuring out what set you are fighting against because the checks between special and physical do vary a bit. The main problem is that not a lot of Pokemon want to figure out that knowledge. Alolan Muk with a mixed spread is the closest thing to a solid pivot into either. The Speed tier is decent but our metagame feels fast enough that it can't just run away with a game clicking Banded or Specs attacks. I also think it isn't the greatest tera abuser so in most games the 4x weakness to U-turn comes into play a fair amount too.

Mixed Boots

Hoopa-Unbound @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Psychic
- Drain Punch
- Protect

I personally have been most fond of this set with Psychic helping break stuff like Quagsire, Alo, and Phys Def Hippo. Protect basically is there to deal with Lokix along with Tera Fighting + it boosts Drain Punch damage and in turn the healing. Substitute could also be a decent alternative to Protect. I did try Specs and personally, I'm not as fond because you struggle with Tink, Alolan Muk, AV Torn, and Hoodra, etc. Of course, a well-timed Focus Blast chunks 3 out of 4 of the ones I mentioned but you don't really want to lock into that. Choice Band is the better choiced set imo because it's just way harder to pivot into, Overqwil being the most reliable. I think Scarf also has a lot of potential and I know some people have explored AV but I haven't given that a try myself.

So with Hoopa-U I feel like it primarily comes down to whether it is worth keeping such a powerful and flexible breaker in the tier. I'd give it time to develop in the meta before looking to see if action needs to be taken. All my opinions are subject to change but this is just the thought process I have after a day.


Hoopa team I had fun using on ladder. Feel like it is just a fairly standard Voltturn team tbh. Thundurus-I has a nice Speed tier but I was mainly running it for Prankster Thunder Wave as insurance against all these HO teams I have seen. Sleep Talk on Gapdos is just for Loom, because I saw someone bring this up a while back. Rocks Ttar is the best kind of Ttar, Shuca felt nice for DD Moon and it helps get trades against Iron Treads and Ursaluna. Low Kick chunks all three of the aforementioned Pokemon, though it makes it worse into Tinkaton.

 

[Estarossa]

https://pokepast.es/0987731a02ccc15c

Thought i'd quickly share a team I was using on ladder that a bunch of people in UU room were interested in seeing the paste for incase anyone wanted to mess around with it before stuff gets voted on soon as per Lily's Under Inspection post. This one is a fun take on screens with BU Ursuluna as an insanely scary breaker. It's nothing particularly special but has been fun on ladder nonetheless.

---------

SD Trailblaze Salac Kleavor can act as both a nice lead with ability to turn Treads matchup on hits head with Close Combat and get some early breaking off or a neat double dancing sweeper later in game under screens. Spread ensures that its speeding everything up to Timid Basculegion at +0, takes treads hits comfortably, gets all the offensive rolls it needs, and the def instead of hp investment lets it take over 75% from offensive torn-t's hurricane guaranteed to always activate Salac when that occurs. Salacs neat for letting it not need to use trailblaze always but trailblaze still ensures its got access to the speed boost too and salac's more just a nice bonus for when stuff aligns well.

BU Luna under screens pretty terrifying and eats so many hits well, not much to really explain there, my spread is pretty simple but just designed to get some creep on other slow Luna's and outspeed a-muk's in the rare case that you face one down without activating flame orb yet, and maximise bulk while retaining some offense. SubDD Roaring Moon's another potent sweeper here and got the set designed to give it self sufficiency vs Quagsire and Skeledirge here without relying on teammates, and can ease set up and prediction in general. Scizor rounds off team with another sweeper and breaker and some speed control for opposing offense.

Alomomola's a weird choice potentially but gives some nice pivoting options with Eject Button while having Healing Wish to throw extra support in for Ursuluna. Wish also lets it potentially support Ursuluna and Scream Tail into bulkier matchups where you can afford to play it slower, while Whirpool into Healing Wish can ensure some nice lock-ins sometimes. Chose Scream Tail over other screen setters because of nice natural speed + twave support for Ursuluna and ability to fast Encore stuff while not having to deal with Prankster vs Dark interactions that Grimmsnarl would have, while having Alo to make up for lack of Parting Shot.

 

[ThatOneApple]

Figured Id post this team so others here could maybe use it before some of the mons on it got thrown out of the tier lol

Two Moons HO

https://pokepast.es/dcd42a656b31e86e


Booster speed to guarantees it gets something done, outruns pretty much everything and can get rocks up, spin, and/or knock the opponent. Eq is good for softening things up so can pick them off and start snowballing.


Screens setter, as play rough to nail opposing on the weaker phys def. I personally opted for twave over spikes because in while trying both out i noticed i never really clicked spikes, while twave provides very useful support against anyone trying to set up against this while it sets screens.


Special breaker, set up plot, hit stuff hard, all that good stuff. Moveset could be optimized maybe but tbolt is just to have a good stab, grass knot for grounds, and tera blast is mostly for but tbh it could probably be dropped for sludge bomb or focus blast if you want.


Terrifying snowball threat, if aqua step picks up a kill the game could just be over. Close combat and tera blast ghost hit everything neutrally (well except but that doesnt exactly take aqua step well). Tera ghost blast is especially good for drawing in and and picking up a kill on them after an sd
Calc for reference
+2 252+ Atk Tera Ghost Quaquaval Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 452-534 (114.7 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Another option could be the fling big nugget option but that feels a bit dicey to use as you have one use and i really just prefer the leftovers recovery to help deal with chip damage while setting up.

(Please not i know that double tera blast typically isnt wise, but while using this team its never really come up as an issue, can be altered if you want tho)

Anyways time for the moon goons


Acrobatics + Eq already hits everything neutrally (except ... which... lol) so i opted to put taunt on the set with dd, as taunt allows you to dodge status from and , pretty much turning them into fodder while also preventing fatter mons from healing or other things from setting up. Sub is another option too, trades the ability to stop mons from healing for protection from priority, but I personally just prefer taunt. Adamant still outspeeds any scarfer that can even remotely threaten it at +1 speed, and the power boost from ada lets you at least 2 shot like.... everything. Reflect lets you dodge any potential attempts to try and stop it from mauling the opponent.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Tera Steel Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon through Reflect: 143-169 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Roaring Moon through Reflect: 181-213 (51.5 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


I chose to run a leftovers set here to make it so this thing doesnt suffer from chip damage that can help the opponent beat it, meaning it can be used a bit earlier in the game. A flame orb set can certainly work by i just kinda liked lefties more. Its stabs hit everything in the meta for neutral damage while drain punch can let you heal more to undo any chip the opponent got on you. Bulk up lets you buff up the physical bulk to obscene levels even without reflect up. There are MANY cases where this thing can just get a sweep with only a light screen up, as its spdef is its only real kinda sorta weak point, and WITH a light screen up it just never dies.
Heres a wack as hell calc for those wondering

252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 232 HP / 0 SpD Ursaluna in Psychic Terrain through Light Screen: 201-237 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

This happened while testing, this mon is ridiculous.

One final note id like to make that i noticed while testing is that only needs reflect up and doesnt really need light screen at all, as its special bulk is crazy for a fast sweeper and the closest way to reliably answering it is priority, meanwhile only really needs light screen usually as its physical bulk is stupid and can be boosted further by bulk up.

So yeah these two only need one screen up to kill you lol, anyways i hope anyone who tries it enjoys it.

Edit: I noticed that this is the metagame discussion thread instead of the team one.... oops.
Edit 2: The Luna has been tweaked to this spread
BEAR (Ursaluna) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 216 HP / 16 Atk / 76 Def / 176 SpD / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
This spread gives a lot more overall bulk while flame orb keeps the firepower of the original spread

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Memes are no longer just dreams

Greetings UU. After much time and debate, I have decided to join this tier. You may know me from VGC, 1v1, the many Tournament rooms or even OU! I try to be a friendly presence in any tier. So take it with a grain of salt why I'm not great at this tier. I wanna play and learn it (only because OU broke) and hope to have some fun here

OU broke
UU is woke

 

[Tree69420]

Memes are no longer just dreams

Greetings UU. After much time and debate, I have decided to join this tier. You may know me from VGC, 1v1, the many Tournament rooms or even OU! I try to be a friendly presence in any tier. So take it with a grain of salt why I'm not great at this tier. I wanna play and learn it (only because OU broke) and hope to have some fun here

OU broke
UU is woke

You came at the wrong time this tier is the least playable it's been this whole gen

 

[MattC (Banned)]

You came at the wrong time this tier is the least playable it's been this whole gen

Well daaaamn that sucks don't it

 

[Rasche]

The Tyrannical Trio

Hoopa-Unbound is an incredible wallbreaker. Mixed breaker sets have very few safe switch-ins if you correctly predict around your opponent. Access to knock off is a good send for hoopa as most pokemon who can switch in and avoid a 2HKO hate losing their items e.g. , and . Ive preferred using Expert Belt as the boosting item of choice, it allows hoopa to OHKO mixed bulk and kill after a knock off. I've also experimented with Sub 3 attack sets, Hoopa tends to force a lot of switches so you have many opportunities for free subs +damage. Unfortunately sub sets really hate u-turn spam teams which essentially override the strategy. CB sets are super prediction reliant and being locked into dark moves allows to get free spikes and to get free u-turns. The CB power boost isn't really needed since you can still force 2HKOs with mixed sets and the extra boost is redundant vs frail revenge killers. Lastly Hoopa is a great TR setter, breaker and pivot. Sadly without 's defensive utility, most TR teams will insta lose vs and irregardless of how well hoopa abuses TR. Despite this thing being so busted at breaking, I don't think its QB worthy in large part due to how solid priority options are and how strong and common volt-turn teams are in the meta.

Mixed breaker Sets

Hoopa-Unbound @ Expert Belt
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch
- Grass Knot / Psychic

Hoopa-Unbound @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Knock Off
- Substitute
- Psychic
- Drain Punch

Trick room setter

Hoopa-Unbound @ Eject Pack
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Def / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hyperspace Fury
- Gunk Shot
- Psychic
- Trick Room
Set courtesy of Trogba Trogba

Roaring Moon is a potent sweeper + wallbreaker. Personally, I've been using booster energy (+ATT) DD moon with techs to outplay the common revenge killers & . Since most people rely on revenging roaring moon with first impression; protect DD moon sets can rampage through many teams. Ive also used Tera steel + Iron head moon sets to prevent CB scizor revenge killing my moon with BP whilst also making first impression a 2HKO in most scenarios. CB sets are much less reliable than the DD/ booster energy moon sets. While CB Outrage reliably claims a kill vs most teams, being locked into outrage often forces you to be revenged by scarf or first impression. Rocky helmet mons hard punishes u-turns and can use crunch locked moon as spike fodder. This thing is 100% QB worthy, its amazing base 119 speed tier allows it to outspeed every common scarfer in the meta after a single DD. Its access to taunt allows it to break past most passive walls. Protect/ tera steel sets prevent the only reliable way of revenging +1 moon. Overall this mon is way too versatile offensively and has limited counter measures which will still require you to play around tera + get adequate chip.

DD Sets

Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Acrobatics
- Throat Chop
- Iron Head

Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Crunch
- Protect
- Dragon Dance

Guts Ursaluna is THE offensive breaker of the current meta. There probably isn't much I need to say to explain this one, you have all seen the calcs of what this thing can do with a guts boosted facade. The current defensive counterplay to ursaluna is to be a defensive ghost or to terastalise into one. Thanks to the great pivoting options available such as , and it is easy to position ursaluna in for a kill. Ursalunas natural bulk means that it can positively trade vs your average offense team and its stupidly high attack + usable speed tier lets it maul slow balance builds. Ursaluna is also an excellent setup threat, specially defensive sub + bulk up sets have worked very well for me. Against passive defensive pieces such as , , and you can easily get free bulk ups and substitutes to brute force your way through the opposing team in a similar manner to iron hands. Bulletproof allows ursaluna to sit on non-grass knot variants of and whilst still benefiting from the fact no one will want to status you. Finally I've used Spdef rest talk sets with Ursa, these sets are less immediately threatening however are incredibly difficult to break similar to iron hands. Ursaluna is probably not QB worthy IMO. It has good set versatility however each set usable counterplay. That being said, I don't feel Ursaluna is healthy for the metagame and will probably adapt to the metagame and abuse the common structures. Ursaluna also bullies metagame glues such as and which arguably makes it more unhealthy.

Bulky Bulk Up

Rehabilitated Bear (Ursaluna) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 56 HP / 172 Atk / 116 SpD / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
- Substitute
- Bulk Up

Rehabilitated Bear (Ursaluna) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 192 SpD / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Guts Attacker

Artemis (Ursaluna) (F) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Headlong Rush
- Crunch
- Swords Dance

Here are some free teams as a reward for reading through this post (or if you cheated and just scrolled to the end).



Dark Spam team ft. Mixed hoopa unbound and tera steel roaring moon as mentioned in the post. LO Lokix is here as an offensive glue so we don't insta lose to rival hoopas + DD roaring moon. Scarf gapdos is the breloom check which the team would otherwise struggle with. Donphan serves as a reliable spinner + rocker to enable lokix + the other darks. Slowking is a reliable pivot which can safely get hoopa in.



Silly TR HO ft. Guts ursaluna, specs glaceon and eject pack hoopa unbound as the main abusers. Colbur uxie is a super consistent TR setter + gives SR support. Colbur slowking functions as a pivot to get glaceon + ursaluna in safely + set TR for them. Finally bisharp serves as a crucial form of priority and cleanup sweeper. This team really struggles vs darks + scizor but the matchups are playable thanks to tera. Clicking +2 guts boosted facade under trick room is my therapy.

 

[JHoxha]

Well daaaamn that sucks don't it

just give it a day or two, once the council arrests the cocaine bear for drug possession and distribution we can go back to arguing about skeledirge instead

 

[Easter Bliss]

figured I'd leave my thoughts on the new drops before the qb slate + maybe some mons I find interesting

Roaring Moon

I don't think anyone seriously expected Moon to be balanced, and believe it or not it just isn't! Tier just isn't equipped to deal w a mon with the raw amount of power it has relative to its speedtier. More offensively teams really do not have available cplay barring specific prio from mons like Lokix once the DD is set up. Setting up a DD really isn't that hard either when the mon has 105/101 spdef. You can feel a bit strapped for moves at times but don't think that makes the mon remotely balanced when realistically you're still hitting hard enough to dismantle most offensively leaning teams while also being pretty nasty to answer defensively (varies depending on the moveslots at times though, regardless don't love the prospect of having a mon that has the potential to dismantle you provided it has the right 4 which it can usually v realistically run.) Ideally goes tmrw.

Ursaluna

It hits hard to say the least. Don't think florb breaker sets are really banworthy enough on their own. By all means its an amazing breaker that tears through just about any defensive mon in the tier w decent clicks, but it's still p inherently flawed. When the mon is as slow as it is while also taking a lot of passive chip from florb + potential hazards in addition to the hit it will probably have to take before getting an attack off, it can end up being v easy to RK, and ultimately just ends up trading. Naturally you can attempt to remedy this w Trick Room but using TR means you're using TR, and its prone to being extremely inconsistent regardless of the potency of the breakers you've got on it. I do think there's some moderately interesting stuff you can do with TR Luna though. For one, we have a solid number of Healing Wish setters which are pretty amazing in tandem with Luna (albeit florb activation can be annoying.) Personally think Mesprit, Sash Hattrem, & even Hwish last on Enam-Turtle are all viable and nice options for TR to roid up the bear. Rabsca is also a fun option as a setter w Revival Blessing + Memento to have 1.5 Ursalunas (or more depending on Hwish.) An option I personally think is cool on TR Luna is Sub. While it may seem pretty counterintuitive given the limited TR Turns + the florb chip I actually think it's a nice option for giving yourself a lot of super free midgrounds to just claim a guaranteed kill. The subs luna produces are also pretty beefy so depending on how your opp positions themselves around Luna prior to the sub reveal you can claim two if they attempt to sack something that fails to break Luna's sub. The big HP loss is also mitigated by Hwish spam to some degree. Anyways, as fun as TR is the playstyle is pretty inconsistent at best and Luna being as crazy as it is only rlly gives you enough to justify using the playstyle in the first place. I don't think TR is too awful though for whatever that's worth. Now TR is only one of the ways people have gone about trying to mitigate Luna's issues, the other one being screens. By all means Luna behind screens has some fairly unholy bulk but iunno if it's really qb worthy either. Just from my personal experience it still has a tendency to get stuck as a trade bot tbh. That said, it's a hell of a lot better at trading under screens cause you can stay in on anything rlly and take a kill. Maybe it'll end up being overtly broken later down the line but I rlly haven't seen it do anything *too* dumb w support. I'm unsure as to whether or not mother bear is actually balanced, but I don't think she's an immediate QB like the (broken) lizard. I think if anything is to break it in the future then it's realistically going to be some heavy spd lefties BU set,.

Hoopa-U

Given the essay I wrote above ud think I'd have something interesting to say about Hoopa, but the honest truth is that I just haven't gotten around to using it yet. From what I've played it seems tolerable enough to not be a QB though. I'd say the scariest thing abt it is when it's in a position to click but it hasn't revealed its set. Given the demonic mixed offenses and respectable coverage, you can't exactly midground v Hoops super easily. This can ofc lead to you guessing the set wrong and paying the price for it. Problem for Hoopa though is that at the end of the day the speed tiers nothing to write home about and you're getting popped by a fairly lengthy amount of moves on the physical side. U-Turn is also extremely prevalent and can't say Hoopa loves that. While I wouldn't QB it though I think the mon is woefully unexplored and for all I know there's some god set out there ready to eat the tier alive. Think heavy Pdef invest in particular w some defensive tera is an interesting idea but haven't rlly gotten around to doing anything serious w the mon. Has some sick options w stuff like Knock being on the table and Epack Hyperspace Fury. Similarly to Luna this is pretty nightmarish to play if you're loading up something fat but honestly now is just not the ideal landscape for that sorta stuff.

I think current meta is ok, it's at least been pretty fun laddering and building for it. Moon is a cringe element to have around but hopefully that gets dealt w quickly. It'll be interesting to see how the other two fare and develop as time goes on (assuming they survive the slate.)

Anyways, onto some mons that I've enjoyed in the post-shifts home meta.


Lokix @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Silver Power / Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Leech Life
- U-turn
- Throat Chop / Sucker Punch
Lokix has been catching a lot of steam as late, and for pretty good reason too. Even just outside of RKing broken Moon I think the cricket is pretty epic and a huge boon for pivot heavy teams. For one, Tinted Lens is just an amazing anti-offense tool in general. Being able to reliably fire off such strong unresisted priority is so good into offensive stuff provided you have the sacks to do it repeatedly. That's not to say anything of the unresisted U-Turn which is hella nice for getting good chip and momentum. Leech Life is actually pretty potent on Lokix when there's nothing to resist it and by extension nothing to deny you from getting a lot of recovery. Leech being as good as it is pretty crucial in opening up the door to non-boots item choices to greed for damage. It's nice to finally have a meta w/o Talon being prominent and Moltres being in the tier so you don't have to play a 5v6 every other game you load kix. Think the mon has found a really nice spot for itself and can rlly make a lot of teams tick.


Bellibolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Grass / Water
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tera Blast / Discharge
- Volt Switch
- Muddy Water
- Slack Off
Another mon seeing a bit more use and honestly, frogs pretty good post-home. Mons just super fat and hella good at making U-Turn an awful move to click. Treads being god and the usual ground of choice for a lot of teams is also pretty awesome when it takes a million from Muddy Water. Walled by Gastro if you aren't Tera Blast grassing can be a bit of a hinderance but at the end of the day Gastros abusable enough and still think Belli fulfills an awesome defensive role. Statics just amazing at landing crucial paras off TornT, Quaq, & Gzap U-Turns while also acting as a sturdy flying resist. Spread I listed avoids a two shot from k9 Hsmash while scoring a guranteed OHKO w muddy water but you can realistically do other things. SpD variants r probably serviceable as well depending on what you're weaker to.

that is all, cya

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Moon is banned.

I'm not certain that Ursaluna is healthy, but its worth having it for a bit, probably suspect worthy at least.

Hopefully though Hoopa-Unbound becomes a healthy presence down here, as it seems like it might settle down quite nicely and isn't causing problems.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

No. No they aren't. We have more than enough excellent removal and because they're all easy to fit, it's not hard to keep hazards off if you're halfway decent at the game. But more than that, it's not hard to position this thing as people have found already. Defensively it has very little counterplay, as it actively makes passive mons like Gastro, Tinka, Quag, and more, much worse because they let it come in. You say "oh gigaton lol" but it's so easy to bait the move out and then oops, bear has a free switch! Never mind bulk up sets which can easily claim 2 kills if played remotely well, and behind screens it can sometimes get more.

The overall power over of UU is way lower than OU. And I'll repeat, it's just going to wind up being a toxic presence by virtue of what it does to defense. Nevermind its reading capabilities. I also question you calling hoopa the most broken, when it's the least common of the three drops by far.



A difference in power level that is significantly noticable. It is much, much easier to position and get going comparable to OU and when it's out, your opponent doesn't have many favorable decisions to make. It's often forcing trades, and screens makes this worse.

So much wall of text yet your opinion was got trashed upon by the council vote. As stated earlier, Luna has the same issues in UU as it did in OU. You being a Luna fanboy doesn't make it eligible for quickban. You don't need OU power level to put Luna down, even if it becomes overbearing eventually.

Now please write a wall of text why the council is wrong on this matter.

 

[Moyashi]

So much wall of text yet your opinion was got trashed upon by the council vote. As stated earlier, Luna has the same issues in UU as it did in OU. You being a Luna fanboy doesn't make it eligible for quickban. You don't need OU power level to put Luna down, even if it becomes overbearing eventually.

Now please write a wall of text why the council is wrong on this matter.

Dude. This is incredibly childish and petty. Kinda grow up please.